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What's your club done for you today?

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oldparwin
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635BMW
liegerwoods
George1507
Davie
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Maverick
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Post by graeme Fri 18 Feb 2011, 2:20 pm

First topic message reminder :

There have been numerous discussions on the old board about clubs who do and don't make special offers to retain and grow their memberships, usually around joining fees.

My club (Crail) announced today a great deal which I think shows good initiative - they've struck a deal with Blairgowrie to allow mutual members free access to one another's courses. So now I've got "membership" of 2 links courses and 2 heathland courses for £350 a year Very Happy

As a sort of aside, we also have the "Links with History" agreement between ourselves, Lundin Links, Scotscraig and Ladybank whereby we can play each other's courses for half price.

So what are your clubs doing to differentiate themselves and make membership even more appealing?

graeme

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Post by LadyPutt Mon 21 Feb 2011, 3:36 pm

Can I add in here that you chaps need to think what it's like to be a woman who works for living trying to play golf - it's almost impossible. Leaving aside the cost (and I'm also crying over my keyboard at the thought of just £350 a year - I was paying £800 a year at my local muni, High Elms where it was a rudey poo course anyway) women golfers are almost always restricted to playing midweek. All "ladies days" are during the week (apart from the "alternative" day when hardly anyone plays), all Opens and matches are played during the week and if you happen to draw someone who doesn't work in a club knockout, then they invariably refuse to play at weekends or expect you to play in the evening when they've spent all day doing nothing or practicing and you've done a day's work and then rushed to the course to get the match in before it's dark. Yes, I know I can take annual leave from work, but I like to do other things with my holidays and not spend all the time on the course. It may sound sacrilege to say it, but there are other things in life other than golf.
Since I gave up playing and therefore club membership a year ago to have my hips replaced, I've actually not missed it and that is mainly because of the attitude of so many people who belong to clubs. Do clubs give anything to their members? The answer had to be a resounding "No".
I still love watching the game on TV and hopefully, once the weather warms up, I'll be making my way to the range to try and remember how to play which might rekindle my enthusiasm (and I have got a holiday booked to Tenerife in September when I plan to take the clubs) but as for joining a club around this area (and that includes Mav's neck of the woods) then you can forget it!
LadyPutt
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Post by Doc Mon 21 Feb 2011, 3:54 pm

LadyPutt I know where you're coming from and commiserate. I thought it would be a great idea to get Mrs Doc playing, as it would make her appreciate me getting out on the course more. She took to it great, and is now on the committee, and has done lady VC and organises all sorts of stuff. She has a massive gripe, just like you and although she plays through the week on ladies day (Tuesday) They end up being chased by a bunch of societies and folllowing other society players. The club don't have the decency to give them a clear run, even though the tees are booked (Forcing 2-balls into 3 or 4-ball). Greenkeepers have had a bollocking for not clearing the greens, just because they're women, and they stand and watch etc. Even had a couple of idiots trying to drive over their heads to see if they can force a 'play through'

Even though I've got great legs, I'm glad I'm not a woman at some golf clubs :lol:

Doc

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Post by George1507 Mon 21 Feb 2011, 4:32 pm

For those of you who are complaining about the people on committees at golf clubs.

There's a solution - find out when the elections at your club are held, get your mate to propose you, and another to second you, and stand for election. You'll probably find you need to announce you want to stand at least a month before the elections. IF you get elected, then you can start to change things that need to be changed. It isn't easy to be elected. You need support from all groups in the club - men, women, old, young, good players, not so good players.

Only do this if you if you are prepared to LISTEN to what other members have to say, rather than just imposing your ideas on everyone else. If you just impose your views, you are doing the same thing that's annoying you at the moment. You'll find that there are many different views and opinions in the club, and that your own views are (probably) in a minority.

And, if you do it properly, it's quite hard work. Unfortunately there are too many committee people who don't do enough work, and just criticise others who do take the time and trouble to work out ideas and proposals.

Try it though. It's rewarding if your club improves as a result of your effort.

George1507

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Post by Doc Mon 21 Feb 2011, 4:44 pm

george not going to disagree with anything you've said, but will add this: If the club isn't a members club, the commitee will talk and make recomendations, but ultimatley the owner has the final say. If he's just in it for cash, that will always overide anything else, and at times it's pointless having a commitee as they have no power.

My club are in this position, but luckily the owner thinks about the club and has invested in the course. the family are wanting to sell it though, so he needs to make as much cash as possible and that means opening up the course to anyone who wants to play. Booking slots added, society events any time and any day. The only way to have an actual say is to buy the club

Doc

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Post by sharrison01 Mon 21 Feb 2011, 5:13 pm

Agree George that this would be a solution but golf clubs are like playgrounds in that it just turns into cliques of people and to be honest the politics would just be too much of a headache!?!?

Best club I ever saw was one where the owner banned the members from starting a committee and the head pro ran all of the competitions. This meant that every member was exactly equal and the competitions were run extremely well by somebody that is very qualified to do. It was also great for the head pro because he got to know all of the members really well so nobody in the club would dream of purchasing clubs without seeing him first or having lessons with anyone else before giving him a go.

This scenario was put in place on the back of the committee believing they could bully the owner and fair play to him, he wouldn't stand for it!

sharrison01

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Post by George1507 Mon 21 Feb 2011, 5:47 pm

Yes, fair comments. I've never been a member of anything other than members' clubs, so I've never had to deal with owners.

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Post by Davie Mon 21 Feb 2011, 7:35 pm

I really feel for all you people who have gripes about your club. As someone who played Munis for many years and only joined a club for the first time a couple of years ago, I feel INCREDIBLY lucky with my club after hearing some of the tails of woe here.

OK so in this part of the Thames Valley the subs are very expensive (I've shed a tear more than once seeing how much some of you are paying), but for me, fortunately I'm in a position where I can afford these fees (though I'd love to see them reduced, but that will never happen)

It's family-friendly, has a great juniors section and a great ladies section - I don't believe they have much to complain about in terms of restrictions of any sort.

The clubhouse is lively and friendly with a good non-playing staff who offer events and special menus, bistro nights etc and the social side is excellent.

The course is very well looked after and there is continuous improvements being made. I guess that's what I get for my money. Yes I'd love to be paying only £800 a year but around here that's just not an option if you want all the extras that go with such a great club. I have no complaints

Davie

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Post by LadyPutt Tue 22 Feb 2011, 10:52 am

George - I have done what you said. I have been on the committee of two of the clubs I have belonged to but still not managed to change things. I was Ladies Secretary at the first club (and also sat on the general committee with the men) and then have been Lady Captain and Competition Secretary at my last club, where I also sat on the Executive Committee. I've always been of the opinion that you shouldn't criticise unless you are prepared to do the job yourself ... but it doesn't always work.

Doc - I do so sympathise with you and Mrs Doc. So many men are still of the opinion that women have no place on a golf course and the attitude of clubs in putting out Societies because it's "only ladies day" is nothing short of disgusting. I've even been in that position when playing in a county-run match! When LordPutt was working as a greenkeeper, he was constantly being criticised by the Course Manager because he tried to set the course up in the same condition for ladies' matches as he did for the men. He was told not to bother because they were "only women"! Are we really in the 21st century???
LadyPutt
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Post by LondonJonnyO Tue 22 Feb 2011, 10:57 am

LP... If I were a greenkeeper there are some things I would set up differently for ladies and mens matches.

First up I would cut the rough a little lower. Main reason for that being that ladies rarely have the strength of men so it would give them more recovery options.

That said I would also cut the fairways a little narrower in order to take advantage of the fact that most ladies are more accurate and so test that part of their game. That would couple with the lower rough height to make it difficult for their game type.

Finally I'd cut the pins in locations more suitable to a lower running approach as most women I've seen playing tend not to hit a high stopping ball. But I would hide them in places so that the approach would have to come from the right place or it there would be an obstacle in the way.

Amusing thing is that I can imagine that annoying a lot of blokes as they wouldn't be too happy with narrower fairways and more rough (even if it is slightly shorter)
LondonJonnyO
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Post by Doc Tue 22 Feb 2011, 1:02 pm

LJ, not a bad shout that. I mentioned earlier about Mrs Doc now organising stuff at the club, like charity days etc. I had an idea last night about the Captains Charity which is 'Help The Hero's' which I think is a great one. The norm is for some obscure charity that nobody has heard of, even though may do some great things etc, but the Captains day has always been a bit flat. I was thinking along the lines of having of having individual stableford (Non-QC) where players can 'buy' for a set amount, the ladies tee (As many as they want) The ladies can decide which holes they score well on, and buy a white tee or a blue tee on any hole, which would give them an extra shot per tee type.

I think it would be good craik, get everyone thinking about it, and make some serious money. I would love a go at maybe 10-holes from the ladies tee. Should be a good laugh and make it a really open competition whereby an unusual winner takes the trophy, but the big winner being the actual charity.

Have you played in anything like this before

Doc

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Post by LondonJonnyO Tue 22 Feb 2011, 1:07 pm

I've played an event where the guys all go off the ladies tee... but nothing like you've said.

One thing I would suggest is to make the number of holes and the price of moving tees dependent on handicap.

That will make people think very carefully about it and throw up some interesting handicap numbers.
LondonJonnyO
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Post by Doc Tue 22 Feb 2011, 1:12 pm

LondonJonnyO wrote:I've played an event where the guys all go off the ladies tee... but nothing like you've said.

One thing I would suggest is to make the number of holes and the price of moving tees dependent on handicap.

That will make people think very carefully about it and throw up some interesting handicap numbers.

Are we talking about the lower the stroke index, the cheaper the tee?

I'm guessing that many of the lower handicappers wouldn't bother that much, maybe the odd problem hole for them. But it would give the higher handicappers a chance and after all its not going to count as its for fun only, and raising cash. Do you reckon it might work?

Doc

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Post by LondonJonnyO Tue 22 Feb 2011, 1:17 pm

A combination of both the hole index and the player handicap.

so. If a player with a shot on a particular hole chooses to buy the yellow tee on that hole it costs him a pound say. And the red tee costs him a pound and his shot.

If however a player buys the yellow tee on a hole without a shot it costs him double... and the red tee costs three times to make up for the fact that he has no shot to lose.

Could make it very interesting as players off very low handicaps might be tempted into that 3 quid price to make a drive and a wedge potentially driveable. Or to take a hazard out of play... Or reduce a par 3 from a 3 iron to 8 iron...
LondonJonnyO
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Post by Davie Tue 22 Feb 2011, 1:18 pm

I played in one charity day where on the 17th tee (a very tricky par3 over water - a real card wrecker) - there were three or four of the very good juniors and you could pay a couple of quid to have them play your tee shot - or pay double and you both played the tee shot and picked the best.

Even the low handicappers for whom the hole isn't quite so challenging were letting the juniors have a go and certainly for the higher handicappers (who are often having a bust a recovery club at it and then hope it stops) it was an attractive proposition. The big hitting juniors were only hitting 7 or 8 irons in and one of them left me about 8 foot for the birdie. Still missed it though :606laugh:

Davie

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Post by drive4show Tue 22 Feb 2011, 1:45 pm

Mav

I've read your last couple of posts with interest but not followed them all the way back.

What exactly is the problem at your club? Is it a) kids are banned or b) they are just made to feel very unwelcome?

If it's b, I would be inclined to take the family there anyway just to shove it up the old codgers! Your estimate of £18k pa is probably quite conservative because if a few families started to eat there on a Sunday, I'm sure word would get around and a lot more families would start to do the same thing.

My club also does Sunday lunches and thinking about it, I'd say the average age of those eating must be well into the 60's if not even older. I'm not aware of any rules banning kids (as I don't own any young ones) but other than private parties (which tend to be based around members families do's like 65th's etc) you never see any in my clubhouse.

We have a new General Manager who is very up to date with all the rules and regulations about sexism, rascism, ageism and every other type of 'ism' so I fully expect to see things change to keep up with the times.

drive4show

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Post by Doc Tue 22 Feb 2011, 1:48 pm

Thanks guys, good ideas and I know the pro loves getting involved so would love to play a few shots for the competitors.

Doc

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Post by LondonJonnyO Tue 22 Feb 2011, 1:49 pm

Mav... I rarely eat at golf clubs anyway... mainly as I think the catering is generally poor and overpriced compared to the rest of the area I live in.

But as for kids. My old club had a rule that no kids were allowed on the course until they were 8 or so... My soon to be new club has no age limit at all. In fact I have been told that I could bring my 10 month old out onto the course in a buggy to get him used to surroundings and he would be entitled to free membership up to the age of 5. Then it's 99 quid up to 18 or so.

Since I'm currently teaching him to fetch balls that I putt on the living room floor I think this will be highly entertaining once I get him onto the putting green.
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Post by Doc Tue 22 Feb 2011, 2:07 pm

:606laugh: I can see it now babyLJ in a wetsuit doing some lake work to save daddy buying balls

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Post by LondonJonnyO Tue 22 Feb 2011, 2:11 pm

Doc wrote: :606laugh: I can see it now babyLJ in a wetsuit doing some lake work to save daddy buying balls

I am currently teaching him to swim as it happens. :606laugh:

anyway... I have all the gear to be able to do that myself. thumbsup
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Post by LadyPutt Tue 22 Feb 2011, 2:38 pm

Doc - what a great idea to raise funds for Help for Heroes (my favourite charity and I'm wearing one of their wrist bands as I type). Check out their website for some ideas - they are very helpful.

www.helpforheroes.org.uk

LJ - like your ideas but grass doesn't grow quickly enough, except in the summer. No chance at this time of year for varying the length of the rough or the width of the fairway within a few days!
LadyPutt
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Post by LondonJonnyO Tue 22 Feb 2011, 2:43 pm

Most matches are played in the summer anyway aren't they?

Besides all it would take is a little planning ahead of time so that the ladies events were in advance of the mens so that the course could be restored again in a few days. We're only talking an inch or two shorter in most places I would think.
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Post by Maverick Tue 22 Feb 2011, 8:54 pm


kids are not banned just many of the old brigade kick up and moan, its not me it bothers so much as I stand my ground and when someone insults my kids I imagine I'm back on the drill square in my best drill instructor tones and bawl them out and they then realise their poncey military blazers are no match for a real former soldier. One old boy tried baewling me out for taking my 10year old daughter out for a walk with me in a bounce game as she's interested in playing, had his blazer on with 2 medals saying see what I done for my country now show your respect you have no idea of morals and standards unlike us military men and no a child should not be on a course where those who have earned the right through service to be are. Quick call to mrs mav and 10mins later she turned up my medals, put them on the old boys table and said I see your two service medals(not 1 was for active service but for length of service and one coronation medal) and raise 6 full active duty medals, and an MC oh and by the way their mine not my dads! Face was a picture. But since then I can't be bothered to argue it just upsets the mrs when all she wants to do is enjoy dinner with the kids in peace and quiet.

I won't stop taking them to the practice ground or for a walk with dad and a soft drink n bag of crisps after no matter who is there just want to stop mrs mav from having to then try to calm me down over our prawn cocktail starters!

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Post by LondonJonnyO Tue 22 Feb 2011, 8:58 pm

Some of these guys need that though. I had one tell me i should respect him... He was a corporal in the war. So i asked for him to call me sir as i was commissioned. :606laugh:
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Post by Maverick Tue 22 Feb 2011, 9:28 pm

LondonJonnyO wrote:Some of these guys need that though. I had one tell me i should respect him... He was a corporal in the war. So i asked for him to call me sir as i was commissioned. :606laugh:

I don't mind putting anyone in their place if its deserved, I'm not confrontational for the sake of it most of the time its avoidable with the use of intelligent words to baffle them but sometimes its purely unavoidable but its ridiculous after 3months membership I'm having to do so at my club.

Its usually the old "War" boys that are the worst assuming their the only ones done a hard days graft and that they have a divine right to respect. I always have and will teach my kids what I was taught growing up and that's , respect is given to you because of who you it, you obtain respect from your actions you take everyday and if you treat others how you wish to be taught by being honest and true then you will have earned respect.

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Post by LondonJonnyO Wed 23 Feb 2011, 3:13 am

Maverick wrote:
LondonJonnyO wrote:Some of these guys need that though. I had one tell me i should respect him... He was a corporal in the war. So i asked for him to call me sir as i was commissioned. :606laugh:

I don't mind putting anyone in their place if its deserved, I'm not confrontational for the sake of it most of the time its avoidable with the use of intelligent words to baffle them but sometimes its purely unavoidable but its ridiculous after 3months membership I'm having to do so at my club.

Its usually the old "War" boys that are the worst assuming their the only ones done a hard days graft and that they have a divine right to respect. I always have and will teach my kids what I was taught growing up and that's , respect is given to you because of who you it, you obtain respect from your actions you take everyday and if you treat others how you wish to be taught by being honest and true then you will have earned respect.

Exactly the way I think Mave. :friend:
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Post by Doc Wed 23 Feb 2011, 9:04 am

LJ what the hell were you doing up at 3:30am? have you been looking at dodgy web sites whilst Mrs LJ was snoring Very Happy

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