Utterly morally bankrupt Premier League

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Post by sirfredperry on Mon 15 Aug 2011, 11:10 am

Perhaps it was too much to hope for. But after the riots it would have been nice if we'd had some good, honest, decent action on the first weekend of the new Premier League season. Alas, there were few goals and some horrible scenes and it was very much the good, the bad and the ugly (only there was not much good).
Some times you just despair. I've been watching top-flight football since 1957 but the obscene amounts of money, the one-eyed fans, the overhype and the cynicism have left me with one conclusion - that the Premier League may be awash with cash but it is utterly morally bankrupt.

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Post by liverbnz on Mon 15 Aug 2011, 11:35 am

Blame BSkyB for that. They've turned it into a sport that appeals to the lowest common denominator. They're in a perfect position to actually educate the fanbase on the game, but continually head in the other direction of tired old cliches.

It's painful to read some of the Poopie that you see in papers, forums, blogs, etc. Idoits everywhere think their opinion means something cos they watch a few matches each week (sad fact is they're not even actually 'watching').

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Post by Small Time on Mon 15 Aug 2011, 4:39 pm

I do love a bit of Irony Very Happy

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Post by Pr4wn on Mon 15 Aug 2011, 4:55 pm

Newcastle vs Arsenal summed up everything that is wrong with the game of football.

Pro football has turned into a total farce.

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Post by Crimey on Mon 15 Aug 2011, 5:32 pm

Pr4wn wrote:Newcastle vs Arsenal summed up everything that is wrong with the game of football.

Pro football has turned into a total farce.

I think it's still entertaining, even if if it is for all the wrong reasons.

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Post by bretmeharty on Mon 15 Aug 2011, 6:56 pm

I agree with the op and even as I am a big football fan I never come on the football board as most are idiots, (old 606 anyway) and must admit haven't even looked at the football section on here untill now only coz im board and dont doubt it'll be the same arguements over and over again anyway.

The way the premier league is, is the way society has become and its no surprise what with the gap of what they earn and what the common man in the street will earn.

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Post by Crimey on Mon 15 Aug 2011, 7:05 pm

Bret, I can tell you now from experience, that the football section on this site has much better argument than the old 606, there is very little silliness, and I usually stamp it out. Wink

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Post by bretmeharty on Mon 15 Aug 2011, 7:22 pm

That's good to know invincible OK

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Post by Pr4wn on Tue 16 Aug 2011, 10:20 am

invincibleILeak (CL-6WF) wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:Newcastle vs Arsenal summed up everything that is wrong with the game of football.

Pro football has turned into a total farce.

I think it's still entertaining, even if if it is for all the wrong reasons.

That's irrelevant, I'm afraid.

And to me, it wasn't entertaining, it was depressing. Watching Barton roll around on the floor as if he'd been shot after only receiving a little slap was awful.

It's not sport, it's just pure cheating and I'm not going to watch it any more.

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Post by Grizzly on Tue 16 Aug 2011, 10:53 am

invincibleILeak (CL-6WF) wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:Newcastle vs Arsenal summed up everything that is wrong with the game of football.

Pro football has turned into a total farce.

I think it's still entertaining, even if if it is for all the wrong reasons.

There is a degree of entertainment I accept that, there has to be otherwise 10m people wouldn't watch it on TV and half a million wouldn't cripple themselves financially to watch games every Saturday afternoon, but the entertainment is overshadowed by the cheating/antics of the majority, and this is where I think football has a problem, it is now the majority not a minority.
When Klinsmann started throwing himself on the deck 15 years ago he was virtually alone (and rightly ridiculed), the majority have followed his lead and it's now considered acceptable behaviour, in fact there are clubs who practice and attempt to 'improve' their ability to cheat referees.
I remember seeing an embarrasing exchange between Jans Lehman and Didier Drogba a few years ago where two 6ft 4inch highly toned and strengthened athletes fell to the floor in a laughable confrontation, the blinkered Arsenal fans defended Lehman and the blinkered Chelsea fans defended Drogba.
Neither manager, coaches or fans were able to separate right from wrong and this is where I struggle with football mentality - those associated with professional football should take greater responsibility for their actions and appreciate how their conduct is perceived, more importantly how their behaviour is copied by the impressionable youngsters, which IMO is why today generation of arrogant greedy players exists, I dread to think how bad the next generation of players will behave having role models like Terry, Cole, Rooney, Baloteli, Barton and many others to copy....

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Post by Crimey on Tue 16 Aug 2011, 11:18 am

Maybe it's because I'm a bit younger and it always has been a big part of football for as long as I have been watching, but I don't think it's a huge problem. Although yes, players probably should stick to the rules, but at the end of the day I think the breaking of the rules has become a part of football, for me it makes it more interesting, to debate out whether it was a dive or foul, to make jokes about it to other players.

I think it's one of the things that makes football more unique to other sports where you certainly don't see the same level of it, and to me it's all part of why I find it entertaining. I don't think what football players do on the pitch has as much of an effect as people suggest, and children see worse things on most other TV programs.

I thought the Joey Barton thing was ridiculous, the delay from when contact was made and he fell was very funny, and I turned on Match of the Day just to watch that incident, I had already seen all the other goals.

But like I said, perhaps that is because I've only ever known it to be a major part of football and haven't known any different, so when I was drawn into football that was all part of the reason while it isn't for you two.

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Post by Grizzly on Tue 16 Aug 2011, 11:23 am

'at the end of the day I think the breaking of the rules has become a part of football, for me it makes it more interesting, to debate out whether it was a dive or foul, to make jokes about it to other players.'

Invincible, sorry but whilst I always respect others' opinions I can't accept this view.
You are suggesting that to deliberately mislead/cheat adds to the enjoyment ?
Referees are ridiculed for poor decisions, I've never had a great deal of sympathy for them but I acknowledge their job is extremely difficult at the best of time, if everyone is intent on deliberately cheating then I suggest this job becomes impossible....


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Post by Crimey on Tue 16 Aug 2011, 11:28 am

For me, yes it does add to the enjoyment.

In my opinion, football is like pantomime with villains and heroes, people doing bad things and people doing good things, and that's what makes it so entertaining, and that, for me, is what makes me want watch it ahead of things like Rugby and Cricket where I just can't get that same feeling.

Obviously, people watch football for different reasons, but I love the pantomine factor of football and without it, I don't think it would be as entertaining.

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Post by Pr4wn on Tue 16 Aug 2011, 11:32 am

invincibleILeak (CL-6WF) wrote:For me, yes it does add to the enjoyment.

In my opinion, football is like pantomime with villains and heroes, people doing bad things and people doing good things, and that's what makes it so entertaining, and that, for me, is what makes me want watch it ahead of things like Rugby and Cricket where I just can't get that same feeling.

Obviously, people watch football for different reasons, but I love the pantomine factor of football and without it, I don't think it would be as entertaining.

In that case, maybe it shouldn't be called a soprt, then.

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Post by Fists of Fury on Tue 16 Aug 2011, 11:36 am

Well technically it isn't a soprt, Pr4wn, it's a sport Wink

Sorry, I'll get my coat.

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Post by Pr4wn on Tue 16 Aug 2011, 11:40 am

I'm tempted to delete that comment...

Back on topic, I'd prefer to watch a real, competitive sport in which the participants are successful by being good at the sport, and not cheating.

Maybe I'm just a traditionalist....

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Post by Crimey on Tue 16 Aug 2011, 11:42 am

I think we're more likely to see other sports become more like football than the other way around, because 'Controversy creates Cash'. Football is such a money maker, and I think a big part of that is the pantomime factor. Obviously the athletic and technical ability of the footballers is probably the main reason, but I think the cheating, and the villains of football make it even more entertaining.

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Post by Pr4wn on Tue 16 Aug 2011, 12:57 pm

I disagree totally. Many people I speak to in my local are getting annoyed with all of this simulation and I've got a few friends who have distanced themselves from the game altogether.

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Post by sirfredperry on Tue 16 Aug 2011, 1:36 pm

Ta for the responses. Fraid that no one would want to reply at first. The sad thing is that when played properly football is still a great game. Every so often there'll come along a match where there are few fouls, plenty of action and the players work their socks off and you realise why you still want to follow the sport.
Alas, there are other times when you want to weep. What is there to admire in a player that gets paid plenty and can't kick with both feet, sulks, moans about his circumstances and generally chucks all his toys out of the pram.
Contrast this with, say, professional tennis, where the slightest slip in form or loss of fitness will send you crashing down the rankings and you start having to qualify for tournaments and travelling at the back of aircraft. Too many footballers come nowhere near justifying their phenomenal wages.

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Post by Crimey on Tue 16 Aug 2011, 3:47 pm

Pr4wn wrote:I disagree totally. Many people I speak to in my local are getting annoyed with all of this simulation and I've got a few friends who have distanced themselves from the game altogether.

Yeah, people do like football for different reasons, and perhaps it is because I've only ever known football as this way that it doesn't bother me in the same way it does some of the older fans. I also get tired of people who moan about how football is rubbish now, and I miss the "Good old days", it's the same in all aspects of life where it seems I've always just missed the "good old days" despite the fact that I don't think currently anything is that bad.

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Post by Pr4wn on Tue 16 Aug 2011, 3:58 pm

They're well within their rights to have a moan about it, though!

The sport has changed drastically, even in the last 10 years.

I wrote an article a while back no the old 606 comparing the NFL with FIFA and I think my points still stand.

Professional american football is fair, the rules are clear and adhered to. If there is uncertainty, a coach can challenge a call and the refs take a look at replays. There is no simulation. It is an honest game and when dishonesty is found anywhere, it is punished harshly.

Footbal just doesn't have the same clarity and accountibilty. It's a game that has become rotten to the core.

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Post by GSC on Tue 16 Aug 2011, 4:38 pm

The NFL isn't perfect, replays ruled out CJ's game winner vs the Bears on a technicality.

Cricket is a better example imo. Can't imagine another sport where the opposing captain would do something on the level Dhoni did by recalling Bell.

Don't see a player admitting he had dived and calling back a player who had been sent off because of it too often
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Post by Pr4wn on Tue 16 Aug 2011, 4:43 pm

The NFL was an example I chose ages ago as a comparison. One mix-up per year is nothing compared the the farces that happen on a weekly basis in the Premier League.

Also, the call on CJ was technically correct.

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Post by Grizzly on Tue 16 Aug 2011, 4:46 pm

Not perfect GSC but you've recalled once debatable incident in the last 12 months, there won't be many more, and I see more lost challenges than successfull ones so the refs are pretty good most of the time.
Crickets review system is flawed because each team have 2 reviews per innings, which means at 11.02 on day one of a test match you could be back to where we were before the reviews came in (not a problem for me I have to say) and leaving you 2 days without one, but at least this system does correct some of the errors made.
Football on the other hand is reliant on one referee to manage 22 cheats, there's probably between 10-15 crucial decision made by referees in every single game that impact the outcome of the game - penalty calls, corners that should have been goal kicks, free kicks from players diving, fouls not spotted etc etc etc

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Post by GSC on Tue 16 Aug 2011, 4:47 pm

Technically yes, using common sense he put the ball down to celebrate, not because he dropped it. Replays should be used to assist common sense, not to replace it.
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Post by sportform on Thu 18 Aug 2011, 1:41 am

I saw a few old clips of football in the 1950s recently and guess what...?

Players went down easily and chased the referee after certain decisions. I also read about players in the 1920s in wage disputes with clubs and forcing moves to other clubs.

I don't really think that football has changed that much over time.

What has changed though is the coverage. There is far more tv coverage now and every aspect of games are highlight, there is far more media coverage in newspapers and radio and the clubs and players are certainly less friendly with the press.
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Post by Derbyblue on Thu 18 Aug 2011, 2:03 am

invincibleILeak (CL-6WF) wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:I disagree totally. Many people I speak to in my local are getting annoyed with all of this simulation and I've got a few friends who have distanced themselves from the game altogether.

Yeah, people do like football for different reasons, and perhaps it is because I've only ever known football as this way that it doesn't bother me in the same way it does some of the older fans. I also get tired of people who moan about how football is rubbish now, and I miss the "Good old days", it's the same in all aspects of life where it seems I've always just missed the "good old days" despite the fact that I don't think currently anything is that bad.
I'm not even two years older than you and I wouldn't say I've only ever known football as it currently is, maybe because when I was younger I didn't pick up on the same things I do now or I just can't remember seeing it.

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Post by Crimey on Thu 18 Aug 2011, 8:30 am

Well I started watching in 2000/01, and I can certainly remember it happening then.

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Post by Guest on Thu 18 Aug 2011, 9:10 am

I think the simulation normally only occurs with a few players, but now because referees are seemingly giving 'easy' freekicks then players now it's more benefical to go down easily and get the set piece rather than try and carry on with the ball if they're going to lose it.

If I want to play a good, normal game of football I'll go down the park with some friends and there's not a chance any of us would even think about taking a dive.

Personally I think football's become more of an entertainment sport. Whereas 10 years ago the focus may have been on what happened on the pitch, nowadays with so much media coverae we're interested by all the transfer gossip, the feuds between certain players/managers and some are even interested in the lives people lead outside of football. If there's something to be blamed for the 'morally bankrupt' Premier League then you could put some blame to the media for having so much freedom to print what they want, or to the public who sap up anything they can find about the sport, even if it has nothing to do with the game of football.

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Post by dondelero on Thu 18 Aug 2011, 11:04 am

Well after the scenes last night between Real and Barca people can see where the worst moral bankrupcy is.

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Post by Shifty on Fri 19 Aug 2011, 6:07 pm

sirfredperry wrote:Perhaps it was too much to hope for. But after the riots it would have been nice if we'd had some good, honest, decent action on the first weekend of the new Premier League season. Alas, there were few goals and some horrible scenes and it was very much the good, the bad and the ugly (only there was not much good).
Some times you just despair. I've been watching top-flight football since 1957 but the obscene amounts of money, the one-eyed fans, the overhype and the cynicism have left me with one conclusion - that the Premier League may be awash with cash but it is utterly morally bankrupt.

Sad but true I loved football when it first went to Sky, we had people like Jurgen Klinsmann, Dan Petrescu, Ille Dumitrescu, Gica Popescu and a host of other come to England, but over the last 10 years it's an awful sport with terrible cheating and morals and I much prefer rugby now... Though rugby seems to be going the same way slowly.
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