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Sky's monopolizing of English football coming to an end?

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Post by Guest Fri 23 Sep 2011, 5:08 pm

Due to a court case being heard on October 4th, within the next 12 months we could be seeing a lot more football broadcasted at pubs if the prices are reduced to a reasonable level.

Make sure you remember the date October 4th 2011. This could be the day that could completely change the football we watch and the way we watch it.

Just over a year ago a pub landlady in Portsmouth, Karen Murphy, challenged the fine she received for broadcasting football matches in her pub- but not through Sky Sports. Instead she was using a Greek satellite to show the games. On October 4th the case will be heard in the European Court of Justice and a decision could be made on the future of football broadcasting in the United Kingdom. Currently a pub subscription to Sky Sports costs around the £1,000 mark, this is ten times the amount that a subscription to the Greek football channels cost.

Here’s an extract from a newspaper which explains why she was fined and why she feels she can challenge the decision:

“In an attempt to save on the prices charged by Sky, Murphy purchased a Greek system through an importer and paid an annual subscription. The Premier League, which sells its rights exclusively to Sky in the UK, said she was breaking the law. But her lawyers claim its position contravenes the EC Treaty that guarantees free trade between member states.”

Gone are the days of grainy pictures and poor audio, with susceptible English commentary. Football streaming has developed and improved dramatically over the past few years, making almost every Premier League game and most Championship games watchable online. Could this be a reason why we are seeing attendances up and down the country dropping?

It quite possibly could be. But another huge factor is the current ticket prices. In a recent BBC survey, investigating the cost of football, it was revealed that the average cost of the CHEAPEST ticket at a Premier League club costs £24.90 and at a Championship club costs £20.40. That price is just for a ticket, not taking in to account any other optional expenses such as food, drink or programmes. If you have a family and want to take a couple of others with you to the game, you are looking at around £75 for a family day out to the football. Is it really fair to charge such high prices, all year round, when the economy is in such a state and people are being much more careful with their cash? I guess that’s another question for a different day…

The point I’m trying to make is that the increased number of people watching football on streams isn’t going to massively affect football attendances. For a company bringing in over £1bn profit each year, will they really feel a huge loss if they make pub broadcasting more affordable?

In fact, this could even be a move that could save English pubs. In a report released in March we were told that 25 pubs close down in England every week. That’s 1,300 pubs every year and over 13,000 jobs lost. I’m obviously not naive enough to suggest that the reason these pubs had to close was due to high-Sky prices, but if more pubs could show more football, not just English leagues, then they could attract more customers. To go one step further, they could even introduce special offers on drinks during these times to try and drive sales. However, the prospect of watching your League 2 side losing at home on a freezing Saturday afternoon might be a bit gloomy, compared to sitting in your local with some friends, a pint and watching a game of quality Premier League football. However, without proper evidence and trialling it is hard to prove that there may be a case of lower league sides attendances dropping if their 3pm kick off were to coincide with a big match in the Premier League that was being shown in most pubs.

The Premier League says that if this decision goes against Sky then it ‘undermines anyone who sells on a territory by territory basis’. Of course they do, if this battle were to be won by Karen Murphy and her team of lawyers, the revenue the Premier League receives could drop. But then you have to argue that if overseas companies can show all of the English games, then why can’t Sky, BBC and ESPN? Isn’t it then restricting these companies and putting them one step behind the rest of the world? If the court were to side with Mrs Murphy, then these broadcasters would retaliate with their own packages that allow them to show what football when they like.

So come the morning news on Wednesday 5th October 2011 we could be waking up to find that Sky no longer has English football by the balls, and that broadcasting football may be becoming about bringing the sport to a much wider audience, rather than in a way that makes the biggest profit. Plus, my old man might not be moaning about how few games are still shown on a Saturday at 3pm.
Source

So do people go down to the pub to watch some football if your team is playing away on that weekend, or even if you've been driven away by high ticket prices?

As most of you probably know, I'm a Newcastle supporter. Problem being I'm over 100 miles from SJP so can rarely make it to games. Not a lot of Newcastle games are broadcasted on TV or radio, so I have to use others means to watch my team every week. If pubs were able to use foreign satellites then I probably would spend more afternoons in a pub with my friends or family watching the game. Most of these foreign satellites show a variety of English games, including Championship football and a collection of foreign leagues, surely this is a much better option than paying over the odds for Sky and being given a tiny choice of games and only from a couple of leagues?

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Post by sportform Sat 24 Sep 2011, 11:30 pm

If this goes through then the Premier League will just sell the rights Europe-wide instead of individual countries.

Sky/ Disney will by the rights and then sell them off to each country.

Then we will be back to the Sky domination of football.
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Post by Guest Sun 25 Sep 2011, 10:42 am

But the cost for only company to buy all the rights would be huge, I know that the current cost over the 3 seasons overseas deal is over £1bn. Plus, I'm sure that buy the match rights and selling them on again would go against some of the rules.

If it goes through it will mean that more matches will be available to broadcast, therefore there will be more rights to sell. This could either increase revenue if Sky want to bid for it again, but then if people know they can sign up for a subscription to a Greek or Norwegian satellite channel (Often with good analysis and commentary I've found) for a cheaper price, then Sky might want to start thinking about their own prices.

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Post by Josiah Maiestas Sun 25 Sep 2011, 2:56 pm

Fans of Celtic and Rangers are crossing their fingers at this news!
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Post by Kay Fabe Sun 25 Sep 2011, 10:52 pm

Why?

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Post by SugarRayRussell (PBK) Mon 26 Sep 2011, 12:21 am

I hoe it doesn't hurt Sky. They have turned the Premier league into an excellent product. It would be terrible for the English teams in Europe if their TV money was cut.
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Post by Smirnoffpriest Mon 26 Sep 2011, 1:14 pm

Lets hope it does happen - I can't see how you can say Sky has turned the PL into an excellent product Prettyboy - when all they have done is backed Man U, and increased the amount of money into the league meaning that the only teams who can win the league are the ones with the most money - that's why only 4 teams have won the league in over 20 years, and the knock on effect of this is that teams have to spend exponentially just to stay in the league and protect their TV money - leading to almost every club (now right the way down the Championship as well, since increased Sky money for the that league) over spending and lots going to the wall.

The clubs have then as a result increased ticket prices and priced lots of fans out of watching their teams and the increased coverage has attracted the 'prawn sandwich brigade'. True there are world class players playing in this league now, but they may well have come anyway, it would just mean that transfers would more likely be around the £5-£10m area instead of the £30m+ area.

It also means that (until maybe last season) the league has been very uncompetitive with Man U and 1 other likely to win the league.

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Post by JDandfries Mon 26 Sep 2011, 1:28 pm

Totally agree with Smirnoff Priest, Sky has ruined football for the man in thestreet, totally ruined it!

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Post by SugarRayRussell (PBK) Mon 26 Sep 2011, 2:10 pm

Really? I enjoy foot6ball now more than ever and the Premier is as good a product as English football have ever had. The notion that only a few teams can win it is one that is relevant with most leagues. In La Liga there are only 2 possible winners.
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Post by Smirnoffpriest Mon 26 Sep 2011, 2:42 pm

True in the La Liga there are only 2 teams who can win it - but thats because the government/SFA have financially doped the competition so that Barce and Real get most of the TV money, they also get attractive tax breaks and when they are in financial difficulty the government bails them out (I'm pretty sure, just like AC Milan, that Barce have an ex-president on their board).
As a result the other teams have no hope of competing - Germany on the other hand where they have strict ownership and spending regulations have many teams competing for the league and can even have teams rise dramatically up the league and compete with the 'big' teams if they are well run and get some talented players. Ticket prices are reasonable, transfer fees aren't extortionate in relation to the other big nations, and there is a lot of good young players coming through the ranks.

Even in Italy there are usually around 4 or more teams who can win the league.

I find this a lot more exciting than the PL - I mean remember when the PL started off, for the 1st 6/7 years the only teams that could compete with Man U where the ones who had to bankrupt themselves to do it - Leeds, Blackburn and Newcastle and there after Chelsea and Man C have only competed because of sugar daddies (which has even further tilted the playing field against the rest of the teams).

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Post by SugarRayRussell (PBK) Mon 26 Sep 2011, 3:31 pm

Italy is no shining light of football before last season Inter had dominated since the Juve scandal and no one really pushed AC for the title last season Inetr were to inconsistent.

The problem in Spain is the teams negotiate there own TV deals so the bigger clubs get more money because more people want to watch them.

I think the Premier League is as entertaining as ever. I see a real 3 way battle for the title between Man Utd, Man City and Chelsea, and a 3 way battle for that 4th spot between Arsenal, Spurs and Liverpool.

Clubs over spending and getting in trouble is the fault of the board not Sky. Was Blackburn not a bit different though did Walker ot die and then they had no backer.

As a Celtic fan who has to watch the awful dross that is all the club can afford I would swap places with a mid table premier league team in a heartbeat.

For me the Premier League is the most entertaining in the World. The German may be more competitive but their is more quality in the Premier League.
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Post by ncfc_Tooze Mon 26 Sep 2011, 3:32 pm

we havent had a saturday home game yet this season

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Post by SugarRayRussell (PBK) Mon 26 Sep 2011, 3:34 pm

Tooze TV rule football. The clubs sold there right to have a say in what time the games are played at when they signed the big money TV contracts. Unfortunately that's how football is now. The 3 o'clock Saturday kick offs will be a thing of the past soon.
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Post by dyrewolfe Mon 26 Sep 2011, 3:51 pm

Just one more reason why TV has ruined football. I really would love it if the Premier League was forced to adopt the same policies and practices as the Bundesliga.

In Germany, they've managed to preserve football as a game for the masses, to an extent. Over here and in many other parts of Europe, its just a money-making enterprise where the fans are almost inconsequential.

I'm also against monopolies in any area of business. Lack of competition means the rights owners can do and charge whatever they like.
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Post by Smirnoffpriest Mon 26 Sep 2011, 4:07 pm

You say the PL is as entertaining as ever coz there's a 3 way battle - but the 3 way battle is between the 3 biggest spenders in the league who have all at one point or another totally changed the financial landscape of the league (and in Man C and maybe Chelsea's case the World transfer market). also the reason Blackburn spent what they did was because it was the only way anyone could compete with Man U (at the time), same as Newcastle, and the fact it very nearly bankrupted them does not put a positive light on the league.

I mean look at whats happened to the Scottish league, a lot of the TV money from Sky was given to Celtic and Rangers, as soon as that money disappeared the whole league is in dire straights and clubs are going to the wall left right and centre. The same could happen to the PL if sky ever pulls out or sky suffers serious financial problems.

Clubs over spend because it is the only way they can compete and stay in the league/Europe spots/challenge for the league, and as a result secure more TV money, so they can over spend again next year to secure their position, if they fail to reach that position (i.e if they spend big and still get relegated, Boro and West Ham spring to mind) then they loose out on that money and have to spend even more money (that they haven't got) to get back in to the league/Europe all the while their rivals are getting stronger and stronger, and this spirals and spirals until eventually the club goes bust (Leeds, Southampton, Blackburn) or reigns in it's spending and plumments through the leagues (Portsmouth, Newcastle), the only other option is for clubs to spend sensibly and then typically they never compete and stay around the bottom reaches of their expectations - Blackpool and Swansea are good examples of this, where they don't spend huge amounts, don't break their wage structure but as a result get relegated and struggle to get promoted again. Arsenal are the only exception that I can see, but that is only because they have such a good youth system and sell their players for far in excess of what they pay for them.

This is all driven by the TV money in the game and the potential rewards of being high in the league. If you want to question this, look at how close the league was in the 80's (besides Liverpool, who had more money because they had huge support in comparison to everyone else), and how any team could compete. (where as now only the mega rich can compete)


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Post by marty2086 Mon 26 Sep 2011, 4:09 pm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/15059636.stm

Something along the similar lines Fergie talking about football and tvs control of it.

Love Brian Barwick saying Fergies wrong about clubs getting more money and putting Utds success down to what they already receive forgetting that every club gets the same amount its prize money that differs

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Post by sportform Mon 26 Sep 2011, 4:52 pm

If Karen Murphy does win the case, it will only be bad news for football.

For a start more pubs will show games at 3pm on a Saturday and attendances will drop. Because attendances will drop clubs will hike up prices even more.

Then when the next television deal comes up Sky will offer less money. Clubs will get less money. The smaller clubs will struggle financially. Prices will go up again.

I have no doubt that if this goes through the Premier League will sell the rights differently to get around this.

On a different note - If Sir Alex Ferguson doesn't like the times of games after the Champions League, maybe Man United shouldn't bother finishing in the top four or entering the Champions League. I'm sure other clubs would jump at the chance at playing in the Champions League on Wednesday and then in the league at 12.45pm.
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Post by JDandfries Mon 26 Sep 2011, 5:09 pm

The fact that the PL is being described as a product by some people, should tell you everyting you need to know!

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Post by Guest Mon 26 Sep 2011, 6:22 pm

Disagree with clubs rising prices if attendances start to dip, it makes more sense to lower them as a way of enticing new fans and bringing back the old fans.

Fergie has a point with the television stuff, I think it should be given that clubs competing in Europe on Wednesday/Thursday should play on a Sunday in the league, if not the Monday fixture.

When the TV deal comes up, if this case doesn't win, then the price will be the same. But Sky then might start to argue why they cannot show some games, whereas European broadcasters can. If they did ontest this and get more games, then the revenue would hike up even more.

Plus, hardly anyone is interested in the SPL, that's why there was no other TV interest. The Premier League is huge around the world so there is bound to be a collection of broadcasters wanting the rights to show games.

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Post by marty2086 Tue 27 Sep 2011, 10:10 am

A balance is needed at the minute sport and the fans are losing out to the business side of it.


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Post by sportform Fri 30 Sep 2011, 5:47 pm

Churchill wrote:Disagree with clubs rising prices if attendances start to dip, it makes more sense to lower them as a way of enticing new fans and bringing back the old fans.

Not sure the maths work out that way though.

If a club currently charges £30 a ticket and gets 20,000 that's £600,000

Because pubs show the game live at 3pm attendances fall to 17,500 and the gate receipts fall to £525,000

If the club reduces prices to £20 and the attendance goes back up to 20,000 the gate receipts fall again to £400,000

Add to that that there is no guarantee that attendances will rise again.

The club will be better off increasing tickets to £40 and getting 15,000 in and still getting the £600,000 in gate receipts.

Take QPR for example. That got 15,195 against Bolton at an average ticket price of £50 which equals £759,750.

The fans said the prices were too big, the new owners lowered the prices to an average £40.

In the next two games the attendances rose slightly to 16,211 and 16707 resulting in matchday incomes of £648,440 and £668,280. So despite lowering the prices and getting more people in they are making less money.
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Post by Guest Fri 30 Sep 2011, 6:15 pm

15,195 at £50 = £759,750, but I'm sure that was just a mistype. After thinking about it, and putting it in a scenario, you're actually right.

The average Premier League attendance is 34,036, with no club achieving a full house average in the league. The average cost of the cheapest Premier League ticket is £24.90 and the average most expensive is £50.65, so I'll take the middle value of £37.75 as the average ticket value at the moment. The average matchday income would then be £1,284,859 (I know this is unrealistic due to season tickets). If we use the rate that QPR's attendance rose to 16,707, an increase of 10%, and add this to the average league attendance it takes us to 37,440. I think the main reason for a drop in QPR's ticket prices was that they were not used to such a price. So I'd say a decrease of 10% on the average ticket price would be fair, making it £34. 37,440 x £34 = £1,272,960.

But then this made me think, surely it would be lower league teams that would get hit if they fancied staying in to watch the footy, rather than freezing outside wathing a poor team play poor football.

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Post by sportform Tue 04 Oct 2011, 3:13 pm

Churchill wrote:But then this made me think, surely it would be lower league teams that would get hit if they fancied staying in to watch the footy, rather than freezing outside wathing a poor team play poor football.

I think I made a similar point somewhere. While people think these rulings are 'great for football' they rarely turn out that way. This will affect many lower clubs than it will the bigger clubs. If people stop going to Man United, many more will want to go instead. Other clubs don't have the same luxury.

It also makes me laugh that people think this ruling will mean Sky lower their prices. Now that foreign broadcasters have been giving the go ahead to sell games in Britain and their will be a demand for it, why wouldn't they try to make the most of it? Surely foreign broadcasters are more likely to raise their prices to near Sky's rather than Sky lowering their prices?

If the Greek broadcaster sold the games for £118 a month and Sky's prices were £480, the Greek broadcaster could triple their prices to £354 and still be cheaper than Sky.
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Post by Guest Tue 04 Oct 2011, 3:26 pm

So it seems Karen Murphy has won. Or so it seems atm.

I'm sure the Premier League and Sky have been planning for this ruling and will have a plan already worked out. I think it will be interesting to see how the Premier League sell the rights next time around. There's even been talk of them creating their own channel and sub-licensing (I think that's the word) to other countries that want to show the games.

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Post by sportform Tue 04 Oct 2011, 3:49 pm

Churchill wrote:So it seems Karen Murphy has won. Or so it seems atm.

I'm sure the Premier League and Sky have been planning for this ruling and will have a plan already worked out. I think it will be interesting to see how the Premier League sell the rights next time around. There's even been talk of them creating their own channel and sub-licensing (I think that's the word) to other countries that want to show the games.

I put something similar down on another forum. The rights will be bundled together somehow for the whole of Europe then sub-contracted (sub-licensing is probably a better phrase) to different countries with an agreement that they can not sell it outside the country.

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Post by Smirnoffpriest Tue 04 Oct 2011, 8:00 pm

I was reading a BBC blog on this and they raised an interesting point that while the premier league (and Sky) will have a plan in place for this and it won't effect them too much, other smaller sports may get hit really badly by this as they may find lots of broadcasters showing their games/sports and there being little money coming in. Although another scenario is that BBC maybe able to wrestle more sports off Sky.

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Post by Doon the Water Fri 07 Oct 2011, 10:10 am

Well, that will be the Ugly Sisters off to England now~ good riddance.

They can take their Motherwell scally with them.

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Post by dyrewolfe Fri 07 Oct 2011, 2:40 pm

JDandfries wrote:The fact that the PL is being described as a product by some people, should tell you everyting you need to know!

Exactly!

Everyone's so worried about the clubs getting less money if more people start watching games on TV...well that just means they'll have to start cutting their cloth accordingly.

My hometown club Southend was staring liquidation in the face not so long ago, over unpaid VAT debts, but they sorted themselves out and are now doing quite nicely on the pitch, even if they're still a long way from being financially comfortable. Small clubs have always struggled but have usually found ways to get by.

Middlesbrough have had to slash their operating costs over the last couple of seasons, dramatically reducing their squad size and wage bill, in order to stay solvent. They went through a mini-crisis but are now looking towards better times.

I suspect what all the executives, agents and owners are really worried about is that increased competition for broadcasting rights mean the amount of money they receive will drop, meaning there won't be as much money sloshing around to fatten their bank balances, via sponsorship deals, transfer fees etc.

I for one would love it if this resulted in top players' wages being slashed and an end to stupid transfer fees, reigning in some of the insanity that goes on in the Premier League. I mean, not even God himself is worth £250,000 a WEEK!

I would love to see football start becoming more of a sport again and less of a business.

I also agree that some kind of solution needs to be found to either direct more money towards the League 1, League 2 and non-league clubs, or at least reduce the expenses they incur. They're what keep football a working person's game.
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