Have Wales been overrated over the past 6 weeks?

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Have Wales been overrated over the past 6 weeks? Empty Have Wales been overrated over the past 6 weeks?

Post by wrfc1980 on Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:07 pm

First of all I want to clarify, I am an English supporter, however I hope that this does not impact on my following view.
I thought wales have been good this world cup, infact they have been very good in parts. However, I really haven't been buying into the hype following this Welsh team. If you believed much of the media Wales were almost nailed on to make the final and had a good chance to win 'Billy'.
I think the facts tell a different story, so far this tournment Wales have played only 3 tier 1 nations in South Africa, Ireland and France. My point is Wales have LOST 2 of their 3 games against tier i teams, hardly a good record! Their other wins have come against tier 2 and 3 teams who ALL tier 1 sides would expect to beat. Therefore why all the hype for Wales? All I saw today was a team that was intent on kicking away almost all their ball. I didnt even know Jonathan davies was playing until the 65th minute when he touched the ball for the first time! England have been woeful this world cup but picked up MORE world ranking points that Wales as we WON 2 of our games against tier 1 sides.
My final point is regarding Sam's red card, the ref got it wrong it should have been yellow. However, Welsh fans should blame Sam just as much as Rolland. The tackle was not good and was dangerous and it gave Rolland the option to pull out the red, thats all Sams fault.
Going forward I think Wales have found some real gems and will be a handful come the 6 nations.

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Post by walesworldcup on Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:10 pm

Wales lost their best player, their captain and their best prop.

Played 62 minutes with 14 men against a French team that beat England in the first half when the game was effectively over at half time.

Wales scored the only try and lost by a point.

Awful kicks at goal cost Wales.

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Post by Bitter Beer on Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:14 pm

Well, they have played good rugby, there can be no doubt that they have improved a lot. You felt that they 'could' go all the way, but somehow knew that they wouldn't.

I don't think many 'over-rated' them. There was a lot of hope and expectation but surely, they have aquitted themselves very well and acheived more than many believed they would?


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Post by trebellbobaggins on Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:16 pm

They certainly looked a better coached side than England that's for sure,

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Post by A World Cup and 3 Finals on Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:17 pm

Wales have definatley looked the best of the 6N teams this RWC and should go into the 2012 6N as justified favourites despite having just been beaten by France (more luck than skill).

Wales's game is built on a dynamic, first up defence, a simple game plan, well executed - more than the other 6N teams can boast. But beyond that Wales have looked a little one domensional and lacking in a decisive edge. They have a lot of work to do to get to the top of world rugby and whether they have the talent is the key question. In the meantime they will be a tough team to beat and could develop further.

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Post by offload on Sat 15 Oct 2011, 1:23 pm

Overrated ? Perhaps a little, although they have played the best rugby of any NH side. I do agree with some of your points though. France were so bad today we should have won, even with 14. Forget the red card - this was our worst performance of the tournament.
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Post by Bitter Beer on Sat 15 Oct 2011, 2:19 pm

And therein lies the problem. When it mattered, they fell short. One eye on the 6N next year, we will see then if this team has learnt its lessons and are credible champions in waiting.

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Post by Feckless Rogue on Sat 15 Oct 2011, 2:24 pm

They did fall short in two of their three games against tier 1 teams. The thing is though they lost by 1 point in both. They're a young team. And as a young team grow more experienced they can start to turn narrow defeats into wins. So I'd be optimistic for the future if I was a Welsh fan. But England, Wales France and Ireland are all quit closely matched. Of the home nations I'd give Wales the edge. Who knows what France will do under a new coach. I can't see any one team dominating the 6 nations over the next four year cycle.
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Post by lauriehow on Sat 15 Oct 2011, 2:30 pm

Lets wait and see what happens on Friday when they play NZ or Australia.
A win v either would push them up the rankings and show us how good they are - if they can keep 15 men on the pitch!

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Post by rodders on Sat 15 Oct 2011, 2:49 pm

No I thought they've played consistantly well from week one and deserve all the plaudits they've been getting. They've been underachieving for a while and things have really clicked for them over the past few months.

They have a core group of very good players and should be a force to be reckoned with in the coming seasons.
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Post by Notch on Sat 15 Oct 2011, 2:51 pm

I think they deserve all the plaudits they have gotten. Though even before the red card I felt they weren't as good this week.
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Post by rodders on Sat 15 Oct 2011, 2:55 pm

Yes I agree Notch but I think they missed Priestland. Hook was very poor and they lacked the composure they had last week.

Even with 14 men they should have won but part of that is down to France deciding not to play for the last 60min.
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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler on Sat 15 Oct 2011, 2:58 pm

Wales have clearly been playing at the top of their game but they showed teh performance against SA wasnt jsut a one off. They have hit that level in most games this tournamnet.
To make France look that bad a man down for most of the game, they are gas good a wales side as I remeber.

Still wouldnt fancy them against aus or NZ, but much better than the dross they have largely put out in th elast few years andd better than the grandslam sides.

So no not overatted, by NH standards theyve been very good.

Will they always play that well? No. But if you assume their avergae is somewhere between what they showed in th last 6 nations and how they played in this cup then they are a threat for another Grand Slam.

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Post by BlueNote on Sat 15 Oct 2011, 3:23 pm

There's a lot of promise in the Welsh team and, unlike in the past (even the recent past) the physical condition has actually been enough to compete at the highest level, so that the talent could show. However, there are still aspects of the game we are not so good at (the lineout is number one), and in some positions we are still very reliant on the availability of individuals. The big question is now: do we revert to the bad old ways, or do we consolidate and kick on?

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Post by Mickado on Sat 15 Oct 2011, 3:32 pm

I think they deserve the credit that's going their way at the moment, Priestland was thier biggest loss today, Hook was poor and Jones had no bottle. Real shame.

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Post by gavstar on Sat 15 Oct 2011, 3:34 pm

Wales have not been overrated. They have deserved praise for the way they have played.

Unfortunately, as well as sam and adam going off, we had hook at 10 who totally lost the game plan. he kicked everthing back to the french, never once kicked to touch. missed 2 easy kicks and a drop goal--9 points.
steven jones missed a conversion--2 points, phillips passed the ball around jones's knees and on to his wrong side for a right footed kicker for a drop goal, not on.

Halfpenny, great kick, but a miss-3 points

So lets tot this up fairly, you cant blame jones for the dgoal miss it was never on for him in that position. so he lost us 2 points, hook lost us 9 points , 1/2p 3, first out the door on the international scene for me-- hook.

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Post by hawalsh on Sat 15 Oct 2011, 5:18 pm

The game next week and against Aus in December (if it's a 1st string outing) will confirm whether the plaudits have come too soon or not. The benchmark for any NH team is still winning against SANZAR sides.

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Post by BlueNote on Sat 15 Oct 2011, 5:20 pm

I'm nervous about next week - if we don't have Priestland back, no Adam Jones, no Warburton (i.e. no openside full stop), we are going to limp to the finishing line, really.

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler on Sat 15 Oct 2011, 5:25 pm

gavstar wrote:Wales have not been overrated. They have deserved praise for the way they have played.

Unfortunately, as well as sam and adam going off, we had hook at 10 who totally lost the game plan. he kicked everthing back to the french, never once kicked to touch. missed 2 easy kicks and a drop goal--9 points.
steven jones missed a conversion--2 points, phillips passed the ball around jones's knees and on to his wrong side for a right footed kicker for a drop goal, not on.

Halfpenny, great kick, but a miss-3 points

So lets tot this up fairly, you cant blame jones for the dgoal miss it was never on for him in that position. so he lost us 2 points, hook lost us 9 points , 1/2p 3, first out the door on the international scene for me-- hook.

Cant you blane Jones for going for it if it wasnt on?
Cant you credit Hook for scoring the only 3 points form the boot Wales' 3 kickers managed between them?

The knives were out for Hook before this game, seems people are now looking for excuses to blame him entirely for warburtons faliure. I jokingly said this would happen before kick off, now it has. Suprise suprise.


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Post by Taffineastbourne on Sat 15 Oct 2011, 6:05 pm

No.

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Post by ME-109 on Sat 15 Oct 2011, 6:09 pm

Overrated - No..

they have been very impressive over the course of the WC and can look to the future with a lot of hope and expectation given the age of the team.

They were unlucky today...

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Post by gelodge on Sat 15 Oct 2011, 6:20 pm

Overrated by some.

They've been the best performing NH side, but the true measure of a team is winning against the top sides and they've come up short there so far (could all change next week). Beating Ireland and losing to France is no different in results to the last 6Ns.

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Post by glamorganalun on Sat 15 Oct 2011, 6:24 pm

Poor WUM they deserved better but Wales still lack depth at TH and our line out is still flaky since 2008, it improved when R Jones and B Davies came on but was that down to the French running out of steam?

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Post by gavstar on Sat 15 Oct 2011, 7:03 pm

peterws, nobody is blaming, or scapegoating hook, just saying he had an absolutely dreadfull game,
Unfortunately, his supporters automatically try and find someone else who wasnt great, and say they didnt have a good game either.

BUT TODAY no one played as badly in so many different facets of the game than hook. now you cant dispute that one.

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Post by PJHolybloke on Sat 15 Oct 2011, 7:40 pm

Wales are a very good team, make no mistake about that.

Wales have so many positives already in this World Cup it's difficult to count them all, they have a balanced back row that all (in the NH) but the Irish will envy (and to be fair Wales had the upper hand in their head-to-head), they have blooded some great young players in real pressure-cooker situations and they haven't been found wanting in any aspect, they have a great young captain who leads by example on and OFF the field, Roberts is back to his barn-storming best, Priestland is the way forward, they have rediscovered the no-fear run the ball enjoyment of yesteryear, they can now move on from Henson without wondering "what if", North will be a monster when he grows up... it goes on and on.

I don't think Wales have been over-hyped by anyone, the Welsh media nor the Welsh supporters have been anything other than excited by what they have seen and with every good reason to be so.

The reality is that Wales lost by a single point to South Africa essentially just because the Saffers were a bit too cute for school in comparison to a young Wales side, they beat Ireland fair and square and in doing so became a bit cute themselves whilst Ireland were losing the focus that their experience suggested would give them the edge, and they lost today to France after the game dynamics had been affected by a refereeing decision which is certainly controversial and may yet prove to be unjustified.

The fact that Wales only lost - again - by a single point, speaks volumes not only of their technical ability, their defensive organisation and determination but also their indominatable spirit.

I look forward to next year's Six Nations with a great deal of excitement and not a little trepidation, Wales are right up there.
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Post by bedfordwelsh on Sat 15 Oct 2011, 8:06 pm

I don't see how be can be classed as overrated when most didn't expect us to get out of the group then when we did no one other than us Welsh give us a chance against Ireland.
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Post by Guest on Sat 15 Oct 2011, 8:12 pm

Some of the praise from the home media has been a little bit too fulsome, but with the disappointing form of England and Scotland (and to an extent Ireland) there's been no-one else to heap it on really.

They deserve the plaudits though. Some very good performances today.

The next 6 Nations should be interesting. I still think Saint-Andre will turn France around in time but Wales should be in the mix along with Ireland and England.

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Post by maestegmafia on Sat 15 Oct 2011, 8:17 pm

Every rugby journalist from Haverfordwest to hawked Bay credits this welsh team for the brilliant rugby and you disagree...?


This post is not worth reading.


What on earth were you trying to do by posting it???

Kick the welsh while they are down?



Rugby is a game played by friends, it's about making friends.




Learn to have some bloody decorum.

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Post by Guest on Sat 15 Oct 2011, 8:19 pm

i dont think they have. I think they have played some fantastic rugby...

they were unlucky today, summed up by the red card of warburton, which was probably only a penalty, yellow card at the most.

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Post by Guest on Sat 15 Oct 2011, 8:20 pm

maestegmafia wrote:Learn to have some bloody decorum.
Laugh That made me laugh.

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Post by Guest on Sat 15 Oct 2011, 8:22 pm

even the french players afterwards said that wales deserved to win, and the red card affected the result.

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Post by iso on Sat 15 Oct 2011, 8:25 pm

trebellbobaggins wrote:They certainly looked a better coached side than England that's for sure,

better players

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Post by red_stag on Sat 15 Oct 2011, 8:39 pm

Have Wales been overrated last 6 weeks?

No way they have performed in every match that I've watched them play in since the 6 Nations. Unforced errors cost them today and South Africa were just that bit better.
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Post by alive555 on Sat 15 Oct 2011, 9:06 pm

def not overrated . In fact I think they would have had a really good chance against Australia if they had had both made the final. I don't think they would have beaten abs though.

Anyway my money would be on a wales oz 3rd place so we may yet find out ...
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Post by aucklandlaurie on Sat 15 Oct 2011, 9:08 pm

Wrfc1980
No team that conscientoiusly improves their standard of play and performance can be accused of being overrrated. not many teams lose to south Africa by one point.

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Post by BlueNote on Sat 15 Oct 2011, 9:15 pm

I thought Yachvili's comments after were very sporting, maybe a bit too generous to us!

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Post by Guest on Sat 15 Oct 2011, 9:16 pm

i think Yachvilli was spot on to be honest.

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Post by damngoodOvalball on Sun 16 Oct 2011, 9:20 am

Wales had a good world cup, and got further than any of the home nations so of course the press are going to get over excited.
If I was a welsh fan, I'd be happy that things are looking promising for them. I don't think Wales have been overrated apart from in some parts of the press. Welsh fans have just got behind their team for playing good rugby and rightly so.

Ireland at least managed to get out of their group this time and should be pleased that they actually beat a SH side outside of Dublin.

England simply didn't fire and despite being 6n champs 2011 l go down as a bad year for them.

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Post by maestegmafia on Sun 16 Oct 2011, 9:34 am

Rather a conclusive decision then.

Everyone agrees that Wales were in no way over rated.


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Post by Sgt_Pooly on Sun 16 Oct 2011, 2:03 pm

I don't think the team have been overated as they've played some great stuff. Warburton for me has been extremely overrated.

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Post by Shifty on Sun 16 Oct 2011, 3:19 pm

Bitter Beer wrote:Well, they have played good rugby, there can be no doubt that they have improved a lot. You felt that they 'could' go all the way, but somehow knew that they wouldn't.

I don't think many 'over-rated' them. There was a lot of hope and expectation but surely, they have aquitted themselves very well and acheived more than many believed they would?
Great summary which I agree with, being a Welsh rugby fan is always a roller coaster and circumstances will always conspire to make it exciting but ultimatly disappointing, one team normally exceeds expectation in World Cups, this time it was Wales, last time it was Argentina.

Wales dont really have middle ground in World Cups we got to the semi finals against all odds in 1987, we lost to an unknown island in 1991 and got knocked out, we against got knocked out in the pool stage in 1995. 1999 we again lost to an island team, in 2003 we were the most exciting team in the cup, pushing newzealand and england very close. in 2007 we were expected to do well, and bombed to fiji, and in 2011 we exceeded all expectations and got to the semis.

The bottom line is during world cups when we go there expecting to do well we normally crash and burn, and any time were worried about how badly we are going to do we end up doing brilliantly... And they say the French are erratic! Doh
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Post by Morgannwg on Sun 16 Oct 2011, 3:36 pm

wrfc - no. For reasons that have already been explained to you, have you no answer to that because you don't seem to have responded?

You're also being very disrespectful to what was a very good Samoa side. I think they would have progressed further had they been in a different pool. I also don't see any other NH team matching what we did in that pool in terms of try-scoring, defence and progression from the pool itself. Pool-toppers SA were one of the form teams of this tournament and didn't get past the quarter final because of Bryce Lawrence. I feel New Zealand and Wales were the only other two form teams of this tournament.
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Post by mystiroakey on Sun 16 Oct 2011, 3:43 pm

perhaps a bit yep.
still a good team- but you cant turn a donkey into a race horse overnight

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Post by Guest on Sun 16 Oct 2011, 3:50 pm

If the OP actually knew a bit about the game and understood how it is played he would realize Wales have been deserved of all the praise form the World press,
not just the Western Mail beating the drum but all major pundits and Rugby columnist and websites have praised Wales.

Wales have looked one of the inform sides of the tournament but if that carries on into the future isn't a given,Wales must work hard to build on this good form.

I predicted Wales would make the semis and i also said how happy i would be if i was right,
yes shame about the circumstances yesterday but if this Welsh squad want to become world beaters they must take their kicks,
if they did yesterday they would have won with a little to spare.

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Post by TycroesOsprey on Sun 16 Oct 2011, 4:09 pm

mystiroakey wrote:perhaps a bit yep.
still a good team- but you cant turn a donkey into a race horse overnight

If Wales are a donkey what does that make England? a half blind half lame dartmoor pony, with an attitude problem and delusions of granduer?

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Post by mystiroakey on Sun 16 Oct 2011, 4:39 pm

TycroesOsprey wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:perhaps a bit yep.
still a good team- but you cant turn a donkey into a race horse overnight

If Wales are a donkey what does that make England? a half blind half lame dartmoor pony, with an attitude problem and delusions of granduer?

wow your odd

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