The 606v2 Cricket Hall of Fame - Part 1

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Post by Fists of Fury on Wed 02 Nov 2011, 12:55 pm

Following on from Gregers' idea to implement our very own Hall of Fame at 606v2, here is the thread where all the deliberating will take place.

As you know, there is a Hall of Fame already set up by the ICC, though looking through it there are some names in that list which are debateable as to whether they really belong in such company. That, then, is up to us to decide. Let's make our Hall of Fame elitist in every way, ensuring that only the most worthy of candidates are elected.

I propose that we elect 30 founder members of our Hall of Fame before the voting gets underway - whose position in cricketing history we can all agree on. Remember, this Hall doesn't have to only include players but can include managers, figureheads or anyone else that we feel has had a significant impact upon the sport to deem them worthy of a place.

In order for a candidate to gain election to the Hall, they will need a yes vote of 75% or more. Anything less will see them fail to get in, although if they get between 50 and 75% of the vote they will be voted on again at a later date. Every candidate must be retired from the sport, and therefore no currently active players will be considered.

Every fortnight 5 candidates are considered. Voting deadlines and forthcoming candidates are listed at the bottom of the the stickied thread in the Honours Board section.

Forum members can nominate candidates by posting in the current thread, which is stickied in the main cricket section.

My suggestion for the inaugural 30 is as follows. It is intended that these be the 30 very best and uncontroversial inductees, so please put forward any suggestions that you may have as to possible changes to this list, before we get started. We need to get the right names in this initial 30. In no particular order:

1) Don Bradman 2) Ian Botham 3) Sydney Barnes 4) Sunil Gavaskar 5) W.G Grace 6) Jack Hobbs 7) Richard Hadlee 8) Imran Khan 9) Malcolm Marshall 10) Garfield Sobers 11) Shane Warne 12) Muttiah Muralitharan 13) Viv Richards 14) Clive Lloyd 15) Keith Miller 16) Andy Flower 17) Brian Lara 18) Bill O'Reilly 19) Wasim Akram 20) Glenn McGrath 21) Michael Holding 22) Richie Benaud 23) Adam Gilchrist 24) Allan Border 25) Curtly Ambrose 26) Dennis Lillee 27) Frank Worrell 28) Victor Trumper 29) Kapil Dev 30) Jim Laker

So, let me know your thoughts and possible changes to this 20, and then we will get on with the business of the first ten names that are up for nomination. Any questions let me know.


Last edited by Fists of Fury on Mon 09 Jan 2012, 4:51 pm; edited 10 times in total

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Post by ShankyCricket on Wed 02 Nov 2011, 1:04 pm

I would have Andy Flower rather than Kapil Dev.Flower single handedly carried the Zimbabweans in his playing days and now he has coached England to an ICC World T20,a clinical Ashes Win away,a whitewash against the former No 1 thus leading us to the top spot.

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Post by jro786 on Wed 02 Nov 2011, 1:08 pm

what about sachin, 99 int 100s?

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Post by Dorothy_Mantooth on Wed 02 Nov 2011, 1:12 pm

jro786 wrote:what about sachin, 99 int 100s?


The rules are the player can't still be playing.

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Post by Hoggy_Bear on Wed 02 Nov 2011, 1:51 pm

Jack Hobbs?
S.F. Barnes?
Len Hutton?
Victor Trumper?
Keith Miller?
George Headley?

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Post by Stella on Wed 02 Nov 2011, 1:59 pm

Gilchrist?

Changed the way keepers bat and the way selectors, select.
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Post by Fists of Fury on Wed 02 Nov 2011, 2:01 pm

Hoggy, some great names there, however we can't fit all in to our inaugural 20, who would your propose replacing?

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Post by Stella on Wed 02 Nov 2011, 2:03 pm

Greenidge was a very good opener but there have been far better cricketers IMO.
He needs to be replaced by any on Hoggy_Bear's list.
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Post by Fists of Fury on Wed 02 Nov 2011, 2:06 pm

I'd suggest Hobbs Barnes or Miller...any preference as to which?

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Post by Stella on Wed 02 Nov 2011, 2:08 pm

I would say Hobbs.
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Post by Fists of Fury on Wed 02 Nov 2011, 2:10 pm

Good call, I'll edit that.

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Post by jro786 on Wed 02 Nov 2011, 2:12 pm

Dorothy_Mantooth wrote:
jro786 wrote:what about sachin, 99 int 100s?


The rules are the player can't still be playing.

my bad

what about curtly amrose & courtney Walsh
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Post by Guest on Wed 02 Nov 2011, 2:12 pm

i like that we have Murali, and O'reily in there thumbsup

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Post by Fists of Fury on Wed 02 Nov 2011, 2:16 pm

Looking forward to the likes of corporal and guildford having some input on this one, too. Plenty of knowledge to be gleaned from the old boys :p

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Post by Hoggy_Bear on Wed 02 Nov 2011, 2:33 pm

Fists
I'd replace Greenidge with Hobbs
Holding with Barnes
Lloyd with Headley
Garner with Miller

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Post by ShankyCricket on Wed 02 Nov 2011, 2:34 pm

Keith Miller was rated higher than Kapil Dev in the greatest allrounder list that we have on the honours board.
So how about replacing Kapil Dev with Miller in this list?

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Post by Stella on Wed 02 Nov 2011, 2:35 pm

Dev did lead India to world cup glory. This for me is worth a ew browny points.
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Post by Stella on Wed 02 Nov 2011, 2:36 pm

I'd replace Garner with Akram.
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Post by Fists of Fury on Wed 02 Nov 2011, 2:37 pm

Lloyd, as captain of one of the finest sides we have ever seen should stay in my view, as should Holding and Garner - it doesn't get much better than them.

I'm willing to listen to counter-arguments, but it'd take a majority for me to remove those three.

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Post by Fists of Fury on Wed 02 Nov 2011, 2:38 pm

How about replacing Garner with Miller?

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Post by Stella on Wed 02 Nov 2011, 2:38 pm

I agree with regards to Lloyd.
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Post by ShankyCricket on Wed 02 Nov 2011, 2:39 pm

I think there are a few batsmen greater than Lloyd who have missed out.So I presume Lloyd's captaincy was a major consideration.I'd say Allan Border was a better batsman and just as good a batsman.

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Post by Fists of Fury on Wed 02 Nov 2011, 2:43 pm

Lloyd's captaincy did give him additional points yes, whilst he didn't need to be a great captain to make that team a success, you still cannot ignore just how good the Windies under Lloyd were, and for that he makes it in, for me.

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Post by Hoggy_Bear on Wed 02 Nov 2011, 2:44 pm

Personally, I think Lloyd's capatincy is a little overrated. Worrell is the greatest WIndies captain ever IMO. As far as batting goes Lloyd is probably not even in the top 10 West Indians of all-time.
As for Holding. He was good, but he is not in the top 5 fast bowlers of all-time whilst Barnes is widely regarded as being one of the greatest ever bowlers, of any type, in cricket history.
Garner/Miller I can (just about) live with, but I feel that Miller should get in somewhere.

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Post by Fists of Fury on Wed 02 Nov 2011, 2:47 pm

We need to agree on who to replace for Miller then - Garner or Holding?

Or would you be inclined to swap Garner AND Holding for Barnes and Miller?

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Post by Stella on Wed 02 Nov 2011, 2:48 pm

Richie Benaud?

Good allrounder, excellent captain and regarded by most as one of the best commentators of his time.

I really don't know who he would replace though.

He might sneak into the next 10?
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Post by Stella on Wed 02 Nov 2011, 2:49 pm

What about Akram for Garner and Miller for Holding?
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Post by Fists of Fury on Wed 02 Nov 2011, 2:49 pm

He will be discussed in the coming weeks Stella, yes. We will be going through the current ICC Hall in alphabetical order, so Benaud should make it in to the first set of voting.

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Post by Fists of Fury on Wed 02 Nov 2011, 2:50 pm

Stella wrote:What about Akram for Garner and Miller for Holding?

Is Akram really greater than the likes of Garner and Barnes, though?

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Post by Hoggy_Bear on Wed 02 Nov 2011, 2:50 pm

I'd be inclined to do the latter, but I could live with only replacing Holding with Barnes.
If Miller misses out, so be it, but I think Barnes simply HAS to be there.

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Post by ShankyCricket on Wed 02 Nov 2011, 2:50 pm

shankythebiggestengfan wrote:I think there are a few batsmen greater than Lloyd who have missed out.So I presume Lloyd's captaincy was a major consideration.I'd say Allan Border was a better batsman and just as good a captain.

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Post by Fists of Fury on Wed 02 Nov 2011, 2:52 pm

Ok Barnes and Miller are now in for Holding and Garner - how's that look?

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Post by Stella on Wed 02 Nov 2011, 2:53 pm

Fists of Fury wrote:
Stella wrote:What about Akram for Garner and Miller for Holding?

Is Akram really greater than the likes of Garner and Barnes, though?

Possibly greater than Garner and could bat.
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Post by ShankyCricket on Wed 02 Nov 2011, 2:59 pm

Akram for Lillee
Better batsman,better bowler(similar stats but Akram mostly bowled on absolutely flat pitches in Pakistan and was a more skillful bowler with his reverse swing and some of the deliveries that he could bowl were mind boggling and he could do it on a consistent basis)

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Post by Gregers on Wed 02 Nov 2011, 3:01 pm

I'll think about who to replace but for me Wasim, Waqar and Sachin have to be in there

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Post by Mad for Chelsea on Wed 02 Nov 2011, 3:02 pm

Hmmm need to think about this for a bit, but to throw some names out there:

Hutton
Hammond
Trueman (rate him above Lillee personally)
Wasim Akram

also we could do with some keepers, Knott or Gilchrist anyone.

Oh and Andy Flower should be in there, for the reason's shanky gave and his incredibly brave anti-Mugabe stance in 03 WC.

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Post by Fists of Fury on Wed 02 Nov 2011, 3:03 pm

Sachin is still playing Gregers, nobody still playing is to be considered.

Akram for Lillee is a possible, don't think we can justify replacing anyone else though, can we?

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Post by Stella on Wed 02 Nov 2011, 3:04 pm

What about Laker with Gilchrist or Flower.
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Post by Fists of Fury on Wed 02 Nov 2011, 3:05 pm

All fine players that will likely be elected at some stage, but not sure how we fit them all in to the inaugural 20.

Akram in for Lillee is one we could consider, but not sure if anyone else can possibly be replaced after that.

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Post by Mad for Chelsea on Wed 02 Nov 2011, 3:06 pm

I'd take Flower over all the following TBH

Kapil Dev
Gavaskar (who's hardly uncontroversial)
Lara
Laker
Lillee

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Post by Fists of Fury on Wed 02 Nov 2011, 3:12 pm

I don't mean controversial as in they were a naughty boy, I mean as in a controversial selection i.e. we aren't sure if they're good enough.

I propose, then, Akram for Lillee, and Flower for Laker.

Are we all agreed?

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Post by Stella on Wed 02 Nov 2011, 3:17 pm

Yep, sounds fair.
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Post by Gregers on Wed 02 Nov 2011, 3:20 pm

I still think that Sachin should be considered...

Anyways how about Steve Waugh?

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Post by Fists of Fury on Wed 02 Nov 2011, 3:23 pm

Ha, he is an absolute genius and God of the game Gregers, but he doesn't fit the criteria at this moment. He hasn't even reached 100 100's yet Wink

OK those changes have been made fellas, all happy?

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Post by Stella on Wed 02 Nov 2011, 3:29 pm

Was Bill O'Reilly that great?
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Post by Fists of Fury on Wed 02 Nov 2011, 3:35 pm

Erm

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Post by Fists of Fury on Wed 02 Nov 2011, 3:47 pm

He had a mighty impressive Test bowling record, got Hammond out an incredible 10 times, and add to that that these feats came in the 30's - an era where the bat dominated the ball in a big, big way. Also, The Don described him as the greatest bowler he had ever faced or watched.

That's enough for me.

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Post by GG on Wed 02 Nov 2011, 4:29 pm

Ambrose has got to be in there

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Post by rich1uk on Wed 02 Nov 2011, 4:31 pm

i know hes not the most popular person at times but amazed botham's name has not been mentioned

if guys like dev and hadlee are in the frame then botham surely has to be

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Post by Mike Selig on Wed 02 Nov 2011, 4:31 pm

I think the way I understand this is that we are looking for people with truly exceptional performances, either as a 1-off or over their careers, or who changed the way cricket was played. Guys who are statistically ahead of the rest of the field. So we have:

Bradman (no question)
Sobers
Barnes (sorry but his figures are extraordinary)
Grace
Trumper (both arguably invented 'modern' batting)
Hobbs (197 first class centuries, like Bradman's average will never be equalled)
Lara (500 and 400)
Warne (rekindled spin bowling)
Murali
Laker (19 wickets in a test)

I think we should all be able to agree on the 10 names above.

Thereafter opinion comes in. For example I would suggest that Gilchrist and Jayasuriya changed the way cricket was played. Whilst Kapil Dev and Hadlee (say) were great cricketers I think the legacy of the above 2 is greater.

Andy Flower likewise was a fantastic player, but his main achievement was being excellent in a very poor side. Although thinking about it, he does deserve recognition for '03.

No one seems to have gotten in for ODI performances. This is probably mainly due to a slight snobbery, but also as standards of ODI cricket have improved dramatically over the last few years, so that nearly all the best ever ODI players are still playing. Bevan would be my one exception to this, he invented the role of a finisher for me.

My personal list:
the 10 above
Wasim Akram (magician)
Bevan
Gilchrist
Jayasuriya (as mentioned above, pioneers)
Jonty Rhodes (invented modern fielding)
McGrath
Holding
O'Reilly
Richards
S Waugh (aggressive modern batting in tests owes a lot to his Ausie side).

I have no particular issues with the ones you've picked having said that, so feel free to ignore my post.

The one I would argue strongly is the inclusion of Gilchrist. If you push me to replace someone, then erm... erm... Hadlee. There, I've said it.

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