Jacques Kallis

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Jacques Kallis Empty Jacques Kallis

Post by Biltong on Thu 03 Nov 2011, 11:01 am

Why is it that Jacques Kallis has never really got the credit and plaudits he really deserves?

I accept the fact that he is not a flamboyant player, and rarely makes any news worthy actions outside of cricket. He has gone under the radar for most of his career.

Highest runs per innings for modern day batsmen, qualifying 5000 runs.
Kumar Sangakkara – 172 innings 9036 runs – it equates to 52.53 runs per innings
Brian Lara – 232 innings 11953 runs – it equates to 51.52 runs per innings
Sachin Tendulkar – 298 innings 14965 runs – it equates to 50.22 runs per innings
Verinder Sehwag – 154 innings 7735 runs – it equates to 50.22 runs per innings
Jacques Kallis – 246 innings 11947 runs – it equates to 48.57 runs per innings.

Highest batting average for modern day batsmen, qualifying 2000 runs.
Jacques Kallis – Average 57. 43
Kumar Sangakkara – Average 56.86
Sachin Tendulkar - Average 56.25
Mike Hussey – Average 53.26
Ricky Ponting – average 53.13

Most centuries, fifties for modern day batsmen.
Sachin Tendulkar – 298 innings – 51 centuries, 61 fifties – scores more than 50 every 2.66 innings
Jacques Kallis – 246 innings – 40 centuries, 54 fifties – scores more than 50 every 2.62 innings
Ricky Ponting – 263 innings – 39 centuries, 56 fifties – scores more than 50 every 2.77 innings
Rahul Dravid – 273 innings – 35 centuries, 60 fifties – scores more than 50 every 2.87 innings
Brian Lara – 232 innings – 34 centuries, 48 fifties – scores more than 50 every 2.83 innings

When you start looking at his achievements and in most debates when the top batsmen of the modern era is discussed, Kallis is often an also ran. But the fact is he stands out as a batsman only and then when his bowling achievements are added, surely then he deserves a lot more recognition.

How many years has he been at the top of the all rounder rankings?

What say ye, educated cricket fanatics?
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Jacques Kallis Empty Re: Jacques Kallis

Post by Fists of Fury on Thu 03 Nov 2011, 11:06 am

Well, Flintoff was top in 05 I believe.

However, Kallis is an extraordinary batsman whose stats more than match up to the very best of any era. As you point out, his downside is that he is a very boring cricketer to watch - and that counts against people in the entertainment business, which cricket is.

He doesn't have the sublime technique of Sachin, he doesn't have the sheer flamboyance of Lara, he doesn't have the poise of Dravid. He has next to no weaknesses, which has seen him perform so admirably throughout his career, but history remembers pioneers and entertainers, and Jacques, unfortunately, doesn't qualify as either.

A tremendous player in his own right, nevertheless, and would make it into any team.

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Post by Biltong on Thu 03 Nov 2011, 11:08 am

Fists, I would agree with no flamboyance, but he is all about technique.
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Post by Fists of Fury on Thu 03 Nov 2011, 11:10 am

His technique is absolutely solid, no doubt, however I was getting more at the look of it. Sachin has the technique and that fluid, sublime looking movement, whereas Jacques has the technique but is more mechanical with it.

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Post by ShankyCricket on Thu 03 Nov 2011, 11:12 am

One of the greatest cricketers of all time notworthy

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Post by Biltong on Thu 03 Nov 2011, 11:12 am

Yes Tendulkar is sublime when on form, but then he weighs about half the weight of Kallis and looks faster on his feet.

I was watching my son bat the other day (he is only 8 and the technique is not there yet) but he reminded me of Kallis, slow moving and not very deft with his feet.
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Post by Fists of Fury on Thu 03 Nov 2011, 11:15 am

That's the problem, I guess, Biltong. He just looks a bit cumbersome, not very pleasing on the eye, and like I said above that sort of thing will count against someone in the entertainment business.

Take boxing for example. Bernard Hopkins is an absolutely legendary fighter, with an outstanding record, but he fights ugly, and as such the likes of Roy Jones Jr - slick, speedy, skillful, will always be remembered more fondly.

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Post by ShankyCricket on Thu 03 Nov 2011, 11:18 am

Yes I agree with the points made about his technique.He has got a rock solid defense but he is not light on his feet and thus isnt aesthetically pleasing but very very effective nonetheless.

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Post by 88Chris05 on Thu 03 Nov 2011, 11:21 am

Kallis spent far too long being a great run accumulator, rather than being a real match winner. In the last few years he's done a fair amount to try and reverse that, but probably left it too late. Most of the other great batsmen mentioned above have a defining innings, so to speak, or sometimes they have more of them. An innings where they make a seemingly unwinnable match a winnable one, an innings where they set new standards of what can be done against a certain attack, an innings that turns a series totally on its head.

Lara has that incredible 153 not out against Australia in 1999. Tendulkar has his unbeaten 155 against the same side when he ripped Warne to shreds and almost guaranteed an Indian win in 1998.

Kallis, on the other hand, doesn't have those kind of iconic moments. In particular, I awlays looked at the SCG test in early 2006 as a prime example of why Kallis will never be as great as Ponting purely as a batsman. In South Africa's second innings they needed to push on as Smith wanted a result in a match which seemed destined for a draw - Kallis played for his average in that match, simple as that. When left with (if memory serves me) a run chase of just under 300 in about 75 overs, Ponting, in complete contrast, hit 143 not out in double quick time to seal what had been, not long before, an improbable win. Kallis, quite simply, just wouldn't have been capable of that innings.

As I said, he's been too much of an accumulator rather than a match winner, for me. Can't deny he's reversed that a little bit in recent times, though. Fantastic player, but purely as a batsman I think he's in the second tier rather than the very, very top one.
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Post by Fists of Fury on Thu 03 Nov 2011, 11:24 am

Chris, excellently put my friend, and an angle at which I hadn't considered this particular dilemma.

When you add your offering to my thoughts regarding the style of Kallis, particularly aesthetically, I think we can agree that despite being a magnificent player he won't quite be remembered as kindly as the aforementioned.

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Post by Hoggy_Bear on Thu 03 Nov 2011, 11:26 am

For me Kallis is the only credible challenger to Sobers as the greatest all-rounder of all-time (though I'd still have Sobers just ahead).
Like Sobers he is a batting great and also a more than passable bowler. As Biltong says, he is not a flamboyant player but he is monumentally consistent. The only possible questionmark against him, (as with Ian Botham), is his relatively poor performance against the best team of his time (particularly in the first 10 years of his career), Australia, but that's a minor quibble.

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Post by ShankyCricket on Thu 03 Nov 2011, 11:27 am

Great post Chris.You make some excellent points.I would rate Sachin,Dravid,Lara and Ponting above him.Kallis probably falls into the Sanga category altohugh he is a bit better than Sanga as of now IMO.

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Post by Biltong on Thu 03 Nov 2011, 11:48 am

Gentlemen, i can only agree with most of your sentiments, what must however not be forgotten is that for long periods of Kallis' career he had to steady the ship for SA.

As you saw with our top ten bastmen, there weren't that many that consistently performed to the extent where Kallis could become a natural run chaser.

To that point he bacame what the team necessitated for him to do. Accumulate runs and don't give your wicket away. When you have been the pillar around which your team has built an innings for so many years, it is rather difficult to change what you have done for so long.

Yes I admit that he has never really played the role of chasing runs effectively for South Africa, but consdering the few opportunities he had to really become an agressive batsman compared to Ponting who knew Warne, McGrath and the rest of their world class bowling unit could defend just about any target set, he could never shirk the responsibility that Ponting could often do for his team.

If Kallis played for australia, he would most likely have been a different batsman, and that is often forgotten.
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Post by 88Chris05 on Thu 03 Nov 2011, 11:56 am

biltongbek wrote:Gentlemen, i can only agree with most of your sentiments, what must however not be forgotten is that for long periods of Kallis' career he had to steady the ship for SA.

As you saw with our top ten bastmen, there weren't that many that consistently performed to the extent where Kallis could become a natural run chaser.

To that point he bacame what the team necessitated for him to do. Accumulate runs and don't give your wicket away. When you have been the pillar around which your team has built an innings for so many years, it is rather difficult to change what you have done for so long.

Yes I admit that he has never really played the role of chasing runs effectively for South Africa, but consdering the few opportunities he had to really become an agressive batsman compared to Ponting who knew Warne, McGrath and the rest of their world class bowling unit could defend just about any target set, he could never shirk the responsibility that Ponting could often do for his team.

If Kallis played for australia, he would most likely have been a different batsman, and that is often forgotten.

Probably true to an extent, mate. That said, I would add that the South African sides that Kallis has been playing in since the mid to late nineties have been, for the most part, considerably stronger than the side which Lara played in, as well as the Sri Lankan team which Sangakkara has been a part of. In fact, South Africa have boasted a bowling attack which the Windies could only dream of since losing Walsh and Ambrose at the turn of the century; Steyn, Pollock and Ntini would have walked in to the West Indies side over the last decade, and likewise would make the Sri Lankan sides of recent times without any worries, too. I don't think, therefore, that Kallis' lack of match-winning or series-turning innings can be blamed solely on the South Africans being heavily reliant on him.
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Post by Fists of Fury on Thu 03 Nov 2011, 12:06 pm

Agreed, South Africa have had a very good side for a very long time now.

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Post by Mad for Chelsea on Thu 03 Nov 2011, 12:08 pm

He's had very few (if any) "defining" knocks, and he doesn't have that X-factor the others you mention do. For me this is why he won't be remembered in the same way as Lara, Tendulkar or Ponting, he doesn't have the ability to take the game away from a side in the same way these guys do.

However he is certainly one of the greats of the game, easily makes the top 5 all-rounders of all time IMO. Harder to say where he is on an all-time batsmen list, but in today's era he's behing Lara, tendulkar and Ponting, and marginally ahead of Sangakkara, Jayawardene, Hussey and KP.

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Post by Biltong on Thu 03 Nov 2011, 12:12 pm

Ah well, it seems he will always be doomed as an average player with one of the best records in cricket. Cry
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Post by Fists of Fury on Thu 03 Nov 2011, 12:14 pm

Average? Most definitely not. Uninspiring? Yes.

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Post by Demon Racer on Thu 03 Nov 2011, 12:45 pm

Jacques may not be the most exciting player to grace world cricket, but one thing is certain, he's one of the most important players in South Africa's history. One needs to remember that when Kallis came into the side, we had lots of all rounders, therefore Kallis had the role of the anchor. This is a role he has done wonderfully. Factor in that when Jacques scores runs, more often than not, we win. Why should he change his game? Dravid in another player who's pretty boring, but gets the job done. That's all that matters. Not everyne can bat like a Lara, Sehwag, Gayle, Tendulkar, AB etc

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