How would Celtic and Rangers do in the Prem?

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Post by Guest on Wed 16 Mar 2011, 8:53 pm

First topic message reminder :

This debate has been going around for ages. But whats your thoughts on this?
Will they challenge for the title or a European slot, or will they struggle?
Over to you people........

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Post by johnson2 on Mon 13 Feb 2012, 8:47 pm

the-gaffer wrote:
johnson2 wrote:
the-gaffer wrote:
Imperial Ghosty wrote:With that extra money they still aren't going to be big players in the league, Villa are a significantly richer club and look where they are currently?

Again you seem to just say things without anything to back up your opinion, on average Celtic Season Tickets without including executive season tickets are £600, 52,000 of them, I'd have no doubt that those would increasre by about £100, what's Villas average ST cost and how many do they have? Also, Celtic's majority shareholder is Dermot Desmond who is a Billionaire and in the past has expressed his desire to really finance the club if they could get out of Scotland (not what I want)

Celtic also have one of the largest followings in North America and a huge massive following in Japan and recent indecations have been that they are truly building the brand in South Korea, what has Villa got?

Nonsense.

For me they are around the WBA level. Pretty average players in a dross league.

And as for Larson being better than Shearer, dear me.

Great reply, you must have been sitting for hours thinking of that teply, anyone who starts a sentence with Nonsense then hits out with crap like that shows themselves up

Is Larsson better than Shearer? That's open for debate, the guy who would have the best idea though (Chris Sutton) believes it's Larsson, this is despite still being very friendly with Shearer, I'd say his opinion weighs a bit more tha n yours on that subject

As for your WBA comment, I doubt the most hardcore WBA fan would even say that, ignorant in the extreme or simply an uneducated opinion from someone who is possibly to swamped in the pit of the EPL to know any better

Look, I respect your right for an opinion, although in this instance it is clearly wrong.

Fans find it very hard to look objectively when assessing their club. Heck, every game I go to I expect Newcastle to win. Doesn't happen that way though.

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Post by Doon the Water on Mon 13 Feb 2012, 8:47 pm

At the moment both would be akin to an Everton/Norwich.
If they had Joined the EPL 15 years ago they would be comfortable top six.
Both clubs have a huge worldwide fanbase and are dying in the SPL.
They would add a great deal to the EPL finances. Bear in mind there are teams playing in the EPL with grounds that limit to 25,000 gates.
Rangers and Celtic would guarentee 60,000 gates every week as far as I know there are only three clubs in England that can compete with that.
The worldwide fanbase would also guarantee better TV deals.

PS Larson was as good as Shearer. Bear in mind that Ricardo Fuller is a star in England but when in Scotland he was a fairly ordinary player. Who did Arsenal chose to replace thier irreplaceable star, Arteta from Rangers. [via Everton.]
We know the SPL is not great but don't kid youselves that it is as poor as many English pundits make out.

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Post by Imperial Ghosty on Mon 13 Feb 2012, 8:50 pm

Ricardo Fuller is a star in england? news to me

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Post by johnson2 on Mon 13 Feb 2012, 8:53 pm

Doon the Water wrote:At the moment both would be akin to an Everton/Norwich.
If they had Joined the EPL 15 years ago they would be comfortable top six.
Both clubs have a huge worldwide fanbase and are dying in the SPL.
They would add a great deal to the EPL finances. Bear in mind there are teams playing in the EPL with grounds that limit to 25,000 gates.
Rangers and Celtic would guarentee 60,000 gates every week as far as I know there are only three clubs in England that can compete with that.
The worldwide fanbase would also guarantee better TV deals.

PS Larson was as good as Shearer. Bear in mind that Ricardo Fuller is a star in England but when in Scotland he was a fairly ordinary player. Who did Arsenal chose to replace thier irreplaceable star, Arteta from Rangers. [via Everton.]
We know the SPL is not great but don't kid youselves that it is as poor as many English pundits make out.

You make out like they get 60k every week, they don't....

Fuller is dross, not sure why you think he is a star. Arteta is a decent player, but people do not try and make out he is the new Fabregas.

And Larson is not as good as Shearer, or any other top EPL striker. Not by a long shot.

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Post by Kay Fabe on Mon 13 Feb 2012, 8:54 pm

Imperial Ghosty wrote:
the-gaffer wrote:
Imperial Ghosty wrote:The arsenal team of 1999 put the old firm to shame

A defence consisting of Seaman, Dixon, Winterburn, Adams and Keown. Ljungberg, Vieira, Petit and Parlour in midfield with Bergkamp and Overmars up front, from that point they only got stronger with the signings of Henry, Pires, Wiltourd and Anelka only round the corner.

It was a good side no doubt but it wasn't infalible, while I'm not saying it's nnot as good as Rangers side in 98 and 99, I'd say that Rangers team at that point wouldn't have been worse than it, it was filled with top talent, Lorenzo Amoruso, Artur Numan, Stefan Klos, Michael Mols, Jorge Albertz, Giovannie Van Bronckhurst, Andre Kanchelskis, Rod Wallace, Sergio Porrini, Gabby Amato, as much as that side hurt me you can't help but notice it's obvious class

It's a significantly worse team im sorry, that was a world class Arsenal side.

I wouldn't say it was a World Class team, they never even got out of their Champions League group those two seasons, World Class teams get out of their groups, one of which was particularly weak from Memory, Rangers had to face the cream of Europe that year, Bayern who were in their peak and Valencia who too where in their peak years, infact if I remember correctly Arsenal only won two games that year to the team that finished botto m of the group while Rangers dismantled a top top PSV sode home and away that featured the likes of Rudd Van Nistlerooy,

Arsenal were a good side back then but like I've shown you they were hardly a World Class side and European results show this and it only strengthens my belief that Rangers would have been an equal to them

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Post by Thomond on Mon 13 Feb 2012, 8:55 pm

Celtic/Rangers would get relegated. They are championship level at best.

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Post by johnson2 on Mon 13 Feb 2012, 8:58 pm

Thomond wrote:Celtic/Rangers would get relegated. They are championship level at best.

They would certainly be is a scrap for survival with 5/6 other teams for sure.

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Post by Imperial Ghosty on Mon 13 Feb 2012, 8:58 pm

We could over simplify things and say that they ran the european champions very very close in the league and cup so must have been pretty good and were certainly world class, the league has and always be what matters, european success is nice but it comes a distant second to domestic dominance.

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Post by Kay Fabe on Mon 13 Feb 2012, 9:04 pm

johnson2 wrote:
Doon the Water wrote:At the moment both would be akin to an Everton/Norwich.
If they had Joined the EPL 15 years ago they would be comfortable top six.
Both clubs have a huge worldwide fanbase and are dying in the SPL.
They would add a great deal to the EPL finances. Bear in mind there are teams playing in the EPL with grounds that limit to 25,000 gates.
Rangers and Celtic would guarentee 60,000 gates every week as far as I know there are only three clubs in England that can compete with that.
The worldwide fanbase would also guarantee better TV deals.

PS Larson was as good as Shearer. Bear in mind that Ricardo Fuller is a star in England but when in Scotland he was a fairly ordinary player. Who did Arsenal chose to replace thier irreplaceable star, Arteta from Rangers. [via Everton.]
We know the SPL is not great but don't kid youselves that it is as poor as many English pundits make out.

You make out like they get 60k every week, they don't....

Fuller is dross, not sure why you think he is a star. Arteta is a decent player, but people do not try and make out he is the new Fabregas.

And Larson is not as good as Shearer, or any other top EPL striker. Not by a long shot.
Just because you don't think LarSSon isn't as good as 'any other top EPL striker' doesn't make it truen infact it shows you up for being so narrow minded and ignorant, you offer nothibg what so ever to back up your belief and just throw in 'any other top EPL striker' as some kind of strength to your point, which it doesn't, it does however weaken it signigficantly

Celtic do get 60 thousand regularly, not every game, usually midweek games won't see the 8 thousand season ticket holders from ireland travel unless it's an Old Firm game or a CL game, same goes with the 2400 season ticket holders from England, while they make the majority of games they don't make them all, against better opposition though there is no doubt 60,000 would make evey game and there would be a probability that the Main stand would be upgraded to fit the rest of the ground which would up the capacity to nearer 75,000 which was in the original blue prints in 1995, however under the current set up there is simply no need to make those kind of adjustments

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Post by Kay Fabe on Mon 13 Feb 2012, 9:08 pm

Imperial Ghosty wrote:We could over simplify things and say that they ran the european champions very very close in the league and cup so must have been pretty good and were certainly world class, the league has and always be what matters, european success is nice but it comes a distant second to domestic dominance.

I agree that the League is the number 1 priority but it's clutching at straws to suggest Arsenal were more focused on the league, they finished 3rd in a very poor group in 98/99 and 3rd in a good group in 99/00, they tried their damdest to get out, one year is a mistake, two years isn't and world class sides get out of the groups, they didn't because they weren't world class, if you remember correctly anytime they came up against a decent European side they were far to naïve, good side yes, great side no

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Post by Doon the Water on Mon 13 Feb 2012, 9:09 pm

For goodness sake Johnson2
The Old Firm are not going to get 60,000 when they play the likes of St Mirren. probably nearer 40,000 but if they were in the EPL they would guarantee a sell out.
BTW what is Newcastles ground capacity and average gate say for a match vs QPR

I think I will also trust Chris Sutton and Ronaldos judgment over yours re Larrson.

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Post by Imperial Ghosty on Mon 13 Feb 2012, 9:10 pm

I assume you think the current City and United sides are rubbish too?

There really is little point in carrying this debate on as you simply insult anyone who doesn't proclaim Celtic to be more than they are.

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Post by johnson2 on Mon 13 Feb 2012, 9:25 pm

the-gaffer wrote:
johnson2 wrote:
Doon the Water wrote:At the moment both would be akin to an Everton/Norwich.
If they had Joined the EPL 15 years ago they would be comfortable top six.
Both clubs have a huge worldwide fanbase and are dying in the SPL.
They would add a great deal to the EPL finances. Bear in mind there are teams playing in the EPL with grounds that limit to 25,000 gates.
Rangers and Celtic would guarentee 60,000 gates every week as far as I know there are only three clubs in England that can compete with that.
The worldwide fanbase would also guarantee better TV deals.

PS Larson was as good as Shearer. Bear in mind that Ricardo Fuller is a star in England but when in Scotland he was a fairly ordinary player. Who did Arsenal chose to replace thier irreplaceable star, Arteta from Rangers. [via Everton.]
We know the SPL is not great but don't kid youselves that it is as poor as many English pundits make out.

You make out like they get 60k every week, they don't....

Fuller is dross, not sure why you think he is a star. Arteta is a decent player, but people do not try and make out he is the new Fabregas.

And Larson is not as good as Shearer, or any other top EPL striker. Not by a long shot.
Just because you don't think LarSSon isn't as good as 'any other top EPL striker' doesn't make it truen infact it shows you up for being so narrow minded and ignorant, you offer nothibg what so ever to back up your belief and just throw in 'any other top EPL striker' as some kind of strength to your point, which it doesn't, it does however weaken it signigficantly

Celtic do get 60 thousand regularly, not every game, usually midweek games won't see the 8 thousand season ticket holders from ireland travel unless it's an Old Firm game or a CL game, same goes with the 2400 season ticket holders from England, while they make the majority of games they don't make them all, against better opposition though there is no doubt 60,000 would make evey game and there would be a probability that the Main stand would be upgraded to fit the rest of the ground which would up the capacity to nearer 75,000 which was in the original blue prints in 1995, however under the current set up there is simply no need to make those kind of adjustments

If you are going to be so petty and correct my mistakes, at least make sure you check your own spelling and grammar.

Poor showing.

You seem to be ignoring the fact that the EPL also has midweek games.

Fair play, defending your club to the hilt.

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Post by 6oldenbhoy on Mon 13 Feb 2012, 9:40 pm

Whilst I am a Celtic fan, I don't think the gaffer is being outlandish when saying Celtic would finish twelfth. Stoke generally finish around this spot, and I don't see a significant gulf in class between the two squads. Similarly Sunderland currently occupy ninth after a poor start to the season. James McClean has arguably been their best performer since their 'revival' and this time last year he was playing league of Ireland football. If the best players in the LOI can make the transition to the premiership, then why can't the best in Scotland do the same?

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Post by Kay Fabe on Mon 13 Feb 2012, 9:43 pm

johnson2 wrote:
the-gaffer wrote:
johnson2 wrote:
Doon the Water wrote:At the moment both would be akin to an Everton/Norwich.
If they had Joined the EPL 15 years ago they would be comfortable top six.
Both clubs have a huge worldwide fanbase and are dying in the SPL.
They would add a great deal to the EPL finances. Bear in mind there are teams playing in the EPL with grounds that limit to 25,000 gates.
Rangers and Celtic would guarentee 60,000 gates every week as far as I know there are only three clubs in England that can compete with that.
The worldwide fanbase would also guarantee better TV deals.

PS Larson was as good as Shearer. Bear in mind that Ricardo Fuller is a star in England but when in Scotland he was a fairly ordinary player. Who did Arsenal chose to replace thier irreplaceable star, Arteta from Rangers. [via Everton.]
We know the SPL is not great but don't kid youselves that it is as poor as many English pundits make out.

You make out like they get 60k every week, they don't....

Fuller is dross, not sure why you think he is a star. Arteta is a decent player, but people do not try and make out he is the new Fabregas.

And Larson is not as good as Shearer, or any other top EPL striker. Not by a long shot.
Just because you don't think LarSSon isn't as good as 'any other top EPL striker' doesn't make it truen infact it shows you up for being so narrow minded and ignorant, you offer nothibg what so ever to back up your belief and just throw in 'any other top EPL striker' as some kind of strength to your point, which it doesn't, it does however weaken it signigficantly

Celtic do get 60 thousand regularly, not every game, usually midweek games won't see the 8 thousand season ticket holders from ireland travel unless it's an Old Firm game or a CL game, same goes with the 2400 season ticket holders from England, while they make the majority of games they don't make them all, against better opposition though there is no doubt 60,000 would make evey game and there would be a probability that the Main stand would be upgraded to fit the rest of the ground which would up the capacity to nearer 75,000 which was in the original blue prints in 1995, however under the current set up there is simply no need to make those kind of adjustments

If you are going to be so petty and correct my mistakes, at least make sure you check your own spelling and grammar.

Poor showing.

You seem to be ignoring the fact that the EPL also has midweek games.

Fair play, defending your club to the hilt.

I wouldn't say I was being petty, I just found it a tad disrespetfulthat you kept spelling the guys name wrong when he was one of the focal points of your points, as for grammatical errors, that's fair enough but I prefer to type in the way that we speak in order to keep the thread and the topic in an intimate manor, I'm not blaming midweek games for a lesser attendance, as said already, CL games and any midweek Old Firm games always get the full house but it's understandable to think that guys from farther afield won't travel and miss work for games against smaller clubs, these guys need their jobs to sustain their incredible level of support, I doubt it's cheap traveling from ireland by boat or plane every second week let alone doing it midweek too, I've never used EPL attendances for any point of debate, what I will say though is that if Celtic get 45,000 at a home game they will get battered on phone ins and the press, that's seen as a poor attendence, how many clubs down south even get that?


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Post by Thomond on Mon 13 Feb 2012, 9:51 pm

The best LOI players are better than the Scottish fellas I would think. Shamrock Rovers would give Celtic a very good game and probably beat them. Let's remember who got to the Europa League group stages on merit.

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Post by Kay Fabe on Mon 13 Feb 2012, 9:57 pm

Imperial Ghosty wrote:I assume you think the current City and United sides are rubbish too?

There really is little point in carrying this debate on as you simply insult anyone who doesn't proclaim Celtic to be more than they are.

I don't think Man City are World Class yet no, they have some World Class players but they haven't won anything yet, well unless we're classing the FA Cup as World Class worthy, we're not are we? Manchester City have so far this season been knocked out of every competition they've entered and despite some extrodanary wins are only just holding onto the top spot in the League

Are they World Class? No
Do they have potential to be? Absolutely

As for Manchester United, I think they've had a severe lack of quality since Cristiano Ronaldo left, many believe last seasons team was the poorest team to win the Premiership, they are still a very good side with the know how but are we saying they are anywhere near as good as the Man Utd teams of the past? My own personal opinion is no, again like City, they have been knocked out every competition they have entered thiis season, at early stages too.

Are they World Class? No
Do they have potential to be? Always

As for Celtic's importance, that's simple, in the grand scheme of World Football they don't have any, I've never argued any differently however what I do and always will argue for is that if we had a level playing field then it would be a different story, we'd probably not be a Barcelona but I've no doubt in my mind that we'd easily be able to do as much as an Arsenal or a Chelsea, if we had a level playing field, we don't though so everything is based on opinion formed from educated guessing

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Post by 6oldenbhoy on Mon 13 Feb 2012, 9:58 pm

Thomond wrote:The best LOI players are better than the Scottish fellas I would think. Shamrock Rovers would give Celtic a very good game and probably beat them. Let's remember who got to the Europa League group stages on merit.

A league of Ireland select played Celtic preseason and lost four nil, so I doubt they are.

Apoel FC qualified for the last 16 of the group stages of the CL, so by your logic that makes them better than both Manchester clubs?

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Post by Kay Fabe on Mon 13 Feb 2012, 9:58 pm

Thomond wrote:The best LOI players are better than the Scottish fellas I would think. Shamrock Rovers would give Celtic a very good game and probably beat them. Let's remember who got to the Europa League group stages on merit.

Doh


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Post by Imperial Ghosty on Mon 13 Feb 2012, 10:04 pm

So the only current world class team is Barcelona then?

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Post by Thomond on Mon 13 Feb 2012, 10:15 pm

I would say the Celtic squad is fairly average, I was a bit presumptuous saying Rovers would beat Celtic. It would be a good game though.

6OldenBhoy, a worse Rovers team lost 1-0 to Real Madrid and to Juventus so it would be a good game.

Out of curiosity, would you say Scottish football is in the doldrums? For the life of me I can't see why people would support it.

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Post by Kay Fabe on Mon 13 Feb 2012, 10:19 pm

My opinion isn't gospil, it's just my opinion, one you asked me for, if you don't agree that's perfectly fine, your entitled to afterall, for me though World Class and Legend are words that get thrown around far to freely and only the very best deserve that kind of recognition otherwise it becomes diluted

My five favourite players this season are Robin Van Persie, David Silva, Wayne Rooney, Scott Parker and Emmanuel Adebayor, I only consider the first two though to be truly World Class

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Post by Imperial Ghosty on Mon 13 Feb 2012, 10:23 pm

Wayne Rooney is truly world class, no matter which way it's spun, you don't become the focal point of a club like Man United without being quite special, even when Ronaldo was at the club he was still the man the manager and fans relied on to perform.

I would say that 3 champions league finals in 4 years as well as 4 league titles in 5 is the very definition of a world class side, we don't play with the same verve we once did but we get the job done.

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Post by Kay Fabe on Mon 13 Feb 2012, 10:27 pm

Thomond wrote:I would say the Celtic squad is fairly average, I was a bit presumptuous saying Rovers would beat Celtic. It would be a good game though.

6OldenBhoy, a worse Rovers team lost 1-0 to Real Madrid and to Juventus so it would be a good game.

Out of curiosity, would you say Scottish football is in the doldrums? For the life of me I can't see why people would support it.

Scottish Football is definitely in the doldrums right now, Celtic are the only club in the country that aren't crippled with debt and can actually spend money ( that's not gloating that's just the truth)

There needs to be a major re-vamp of the Scottish League, it's more commonly known as the SPL - Self Presevation League, one up one down, no play offs, so so boring

Why would people support it? Simple, ordinary guys love their teams whether it's Alloa in the 3rd Division or St Johnstone in the SPL

I also believe that the ROI is on a par with the Scottish First Division, well the better teams are anyway, I was really proud of the Rovers this year, they were immense, I was working in London during the Spurs game and went to it but let's be honest, Celtic would pump them in a competitive match, particularly now, the Europa League run really helped mature our young side, although I'm not going to boast about that because Celtic's spending is far greater than that of the Rovers so it's hardly a level playing field

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Post by Thomond on Mon 13 Feb 2012, 10:31 pm

LOI teams are better than Scottish first Divsion, 5 years ago, Derry trounced Gretna, who were promoted to the SPL that year something like 6-1 on aggregate.

They would be on par with a lot of the teams in the SPL besides the big two and I think you are underestimating the LOI. They have given a lot of guys to the premier league over the last few seasons.

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Post by 6oldenbhoy on Mon 13 Feb 2012, 10:31 pm

Thomond wrote:I would say the Celtic squad is fairly average, I was a bit presumptuous saying Rovers would beat Celtic. It would be a good game though.

6OldenBhoy, a worse Rovers team lost 1-0 to Real Madrid and to Juventus so it would be a good game.

Out of curiosity, would you say Scottish football is in the doldrums? For the life of me I can't see why people would support it.

The Celtic squad may be fairly average, but would romp the LOI. A full strength Celtic completely overwhelm the best the league of Ireland has to offer. When Paddy McCourt played for Derry, many viewed him as the best player in the LOI. Most of the time he doesn't make the Celtic bench. Similar situation with Niall McGinn.

Like you, I'm an Irishman, so I'm not sure about the lower leagues as we don't get the coverage over here. Celtic seem to be on the up, we have a good young squad who should only get better. Similarly, Dundee Utd are producing some good young players. That's probably the way forward for Scottish clubs. For far too long teams have bought mediocre foreigners with next to no resale value.

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Post by Kay Fabe on Mon 13 Feb 2012, 10:32 pm

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Wayne Rooney is truly world class, no matter which way it's spun, you don't become the focal point of a club like Man United without being quite special, even when Ronaldo was at the club he was still the man the manager and fans relied on to perform.

I would say that 3 champions league finals in 4 years as well as 4 league titles in 5 is the very definition of a world class side, we don't play with the same verve we once did but we get the job done.

Your probably right, it's just a personal opinion, like I said on another thread, he's Lionel Messi's favourite player so he's obviously no mug, I really like Rooney but I just find it hard fitting him in to a World XI

I would definitely concede though, he is World Class, probably the only English player currently to be classed as that

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Post by Thomond on Mon 13 Feb 2012, 10:36 pm

Paddy McCourt was not the best player in the LOI, I'm a massive LOI fan and thought he was hugely overated as did many others. Didn't do it on the big days against Cork City and other teams. I don't think it's unreasonable to say the top LOI teams would match the other SPL teams, I would love to see a match between Sligo Rovers or Shamrock Rovers against Celtic. I don't think it would be the slaughter you seem to think.


You an LOI fan yourself?

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Post by Imperial Ghosty on Mon 13 Feb 2012, 10:39 pm

Just because you don't get in a world XI doesn't mean your not world class, I personally wouldn't find room for Xavi but would definitely for Iniesta. Every time I watch Barcelona play it's Iniesta who stands out for me and not Messi or Xavi, I find that Xavi gets all the plaudits for the work and vision that Iniesta brings to the team.

What Rooney brings to a team goes beyond goalscoring of which he isn't a natural one, he is realistically a central midfielder who plays up top but it's his passing and vision that sets him aside from most. Van Persie is the better goalscored but Rooney is the better overall player.

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Post by 6oldenbhoy on Mon 13 Feb 2012, 10:44 pm

No, I'm a Cliftonville fan. Been to a few Shamrock Rovers games though. I was actually at the Setanta cup game against your team a few years ago, and a lot of the Cork fans thought McCourt was the best player. There was certainly an argument for it.

If Celtic and Sligo Rovers both played to their full potential, do you seriously think it would be a close game?

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Mon 13 Feb 2012, 10:47 pm

the-gaffer wrote:
Thomond wrote:The best LOI players are better than the Scottish fellas I would think. Shamrock Rovers would give Celtic a very good game and probably beat them. Let's remember who got to the Europa League group stages on merit.

Doh


In fairness, his comment was no more ridiculous than your statement that the OF teams of '98-'02 were as good if not better than anything in the EPL at the same time. United won the TREBLE for god's sake!! When was the last time Celtic or Rangers won anything outside their lopsided domestic competitions?? English sides have reached more Champions League finals in the last 15 yrs than Scottish sides have even got out the group stages!

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Post by Kay Fabe on Mon 13 Feb 2012, 10:47 pm

Thomond wrote:LOI teams are better than Scottish first Divsion, 5 years ago, Derry trounced Gretna, who were promoted to the SPL that year something like 6-1 on aggregate.

They would be on par with a lot of the teams in the SPL besides the big two and I think you are underestimating the LOI. They have given a lot of guys to the premier league over the last few seasons.

The Gretna/Derry scoreline FIVE years ago cannot be used as a marker, Gretna were seen as the Chelsea of the poor, they bought crap players that were about four or five levels higher than the standard crap that played in the lower leagues, in season 2005/06 they were in the second division and had first division players playing in that league, they also made the Scottish Cup final that year although their run to the final saw them swerve an SPL club in ebery round. They lost the final but qualified for Europe because Hearts qualified for CL qualifiers

They were in no way shape or form representive of Scottish clubs and definitely not SPL clubs, they came up to the league and got totally obliterated which ended with them being kicked out of the Scottish Leagues

Celtic beat Barcelona a few years ago, doesn't mean we'll win LaLiga or the SPL is on a par with it :lol:

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Post by Doon the Water on Mon 13 Feb 2012, 10:51 pm

Right that's it setled then a Celtic League in the making.
Give it 10 years and it will be bigger than, than,tha,th ,t.

Nothing quite like an English attack to unite the Old Squirm.

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Post by Thomond on Mon 13 Feb 2012, 10:51 pm

There would be a goal or two in it to Celtic. They're not 5/6 goals better like. Do you lot seriously think Kilmarnock would beat a team who got to the Europa league group stages? Hearts got trounced against Spurs in the qualifying this year. Rovers did get hammered one time alright but the first game was very close. Also I don't know how you can say "we" when you're talking about Celtic you're Irish like.

Cliftonville knocked us out of the Setanta around 5/6 years ago if I remember correctly. Some fecker named Hamilton got the goal.

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Post by Imperial Ghosty on Mon 13 Feb 2012, 10:57 pm

To be fair to Hearts, Newcastle are a very good team and just got trounced by Spurs, it's no shame being beaten by a team that good.

That team contained Van Der Vaart and Bale, a match for almost any players in world football.

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Post by Kay Fabe on Mon 13 Feb 2012, 11:07 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
the-gaffer wrote:
Thomond wrote:The best LOI players are better than the Scottish fellas I would think. Shamrock Rovers would give Celtic a very good game and probably beat them. Let's remember who got to the Europa League group stages on merit.

Doh


In fairness, his comment was no more ridiculous than your statement that the OF teams of '98-'02 were as good if not better than anything in the EPL at the same time. United won the TREBLE for god's sake!! When was the last time Celtic or Rangers won anything outside their lopsided domestic competitions?? English sides have reached more Champions League finals in the last 15 yrs than Scottish sides have even got out the group stages!

The Celtic team between 2000 and 2004 would have been more than a match for any English club and the two years before it Rangers had a team that would have matched anyone other than United

Infact, when you look at the four CL games between Celtic and Man Utd in 2006 and 2008 there was very little between the teams other than a blatent Ryan Giggs dive and two offside Berbatov goals

I always remember Rangers destroying Parma 2-0 at Ibrox in the CL, a really top class performance against a Parma team filled with top talent

Parma: Buffon, Sartor, Baggio, Ortega, Boghossian, Cannavaro, Di Vaio, Thuram, Serena, Vanoli, Walem. Subs: Micillo, Benarrivo, Breda, Fuser, Stanic, Torrisi, Montano

Celtic too battered many top class European teams at that particular time, Juventus, Valencia, Porto Ajax (all of which won their leagues that year) and iut played outfought and outclassed Premiership clubs like Blackburn and Liverpool, at Ewood and Anfield too, both those teams finished top 6 in the Premiership that season, knocked Barcelona out of the Uefa Cup too in 2004 and thrashed a top class Lyon side at Celtic Park in 2003

I always remember a friendly with Man Utd, there was a bit of bad blood from the previous friendly in May 01, it was Giggs testimonial in August 01, united where giving Van Nistlerooy and Veron their debut and Ferguson and Martin O'Neill had a bit of an argument in the press, both made it clear it was a challenge match more than a friendly, Celtic and United went to war, Celtic won 4-3 and Beckham and Paul Lambert had a punch up, Ferguson claimed we were the best side his team played in two years

After Jose Mourinho joined Chelsea he said the hardest game he had at Porto was the 2003 Uefa Cup final against Celtic

These aren't sycophantic view points by nonentity yes men, Mourinho and Ferguson don't pander to people, if they say those things it's because they genuinely believed in what they said at the time, particularly in Mourinho's case as he had no reason to mention Celtic while Chelsea manager

Those are the kind of things that make me believe that Celtic could easily have lived with the best in the premiership during Martin O'Neills time at Celtic while Larsson was there

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Post by 6oldenbhoy on Mon 13 Feb 2012, 11:08 pm

Thomond wrote:There would be a goal or two in it to Celtic. They're not 5/6 goals better like. Do you lot seriously think Kilmarnock would beat a team who got to the Europa league group stages? Hearts got trounced against Spurs in the qualifying this year. Rovers did get hammered one time alright but the first game was very close.

Cliftonville knocked us out of the Setanta around 5/6 years ago if I remember correctly. Some fecker named Hamilton got the goal.

Apoel FC got to the last 16 of the Champions League, doesn't mean they are one of the top sixteen clubs in Europe. Rovers did very well in getting to the EL groups, but it was a bit of a fluke result, and I am not trying to diminish anything Rovers did as it was a great achievement. For me, the best LOI clubs would finish mid table in the SPL.

You sure that wasn't Portadown? THey had a guy called Gary Hamilton.

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Post by Kay Fabe on Mon 13 Feb 2012, 11:10 pm

Thomond wrote:There would be a goal or two in it to Celtic. They're not 5/6 goals better like. Do you lot seriously think Kilmarnock would beat a team who got to the Europa league group stages? Hearts got trounced against Spurs in the qualifying this year. Rovers did get hammered one time alright but the first game was very close. Also I don't know how you can say "we" when you're talking about Celtic you're Irish like.

Cliftonville knocked us out of the Setanta around 5/6 years ago if I remember correctly. Some fecker named Hamilton got the goal.

Don't talk absolute balls, Celtic are a Scottish club with Irish roots, they aren't Irish, they are Scottish and I say we because they are my club, comprende!

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Post by Thomond on Mon 13 Feb 2012, 11:14 pm

Might have been Portadown, is it Cliftonville or Portadown who wear red?

I wouldn't say it was a fluke result, they went over to Belgrade and won. Not many teams could do that in such a hostile place. They played pretty well and scored with a superb goal.

I wasn't talking to you in that point Gaffer ,calm down like. You're Glaswegian so it's alright if you call them "we"

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Post by Kay Fabe on Mon 13 Feb 2012, 11:15 pm

Doon the Water wrote:Right that's it setled then a Celtic League in the making.
Give it 10 years and it will be bigger than, than,tha,th ,t.

Nothing quite like an English attack to unite the Old Squirm.

I'd be interested in an Atlantic League but in terms of support and finance Irish clubs wouldn't add anything to a 'Celtic League' that most bigger Scottish clubs don't already bring

The level of players in Ireland are of af a very low standard, John Daly and Dean Sheils would be the stars of the ROI if they moved there tomorrow

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Post by 6oldenbhoy on Mon 13 Feb 2012, 11:17 pm

the-gaffer wrote:
Thomond wrote:There would be a goal or two in it to Celtic. They're not 5/6 goals better like. Do you lot seriously think Kilmarnock would beat a team who got to the Europa league group stages? Hearts got trounced against Spurs in the qualifying this year. Rovers did get hammered one time alright but the first game was very close. Also I don't know how you can say "we" when you're talking about Celtic you're Irish like.

Cliftonville knocked us out of the Setanta around 5/6 years ago if I remember correctly. Some fecker named Hamilton got the goal.

Don't talk absolute balls, Celtic are a Scottish club with Irish roots, they aren't Irish, they are Scottish and I say we because they are my club, comprende!

For some reason that last line of the first paragraph didn't pick up when I quoted it. I am a proud Irishman, but when it comes to sport I am, first and foremost a Celtic fan. If I had the choice between Ireland winning the World Cup or Celtic winning the Champions League, it's a no brainer, Celtic every time. Doesn't make me any less patriotic, but Celtic always come first for me sports-wise.

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Post by Thomond on Mon 13 Feb 2012, 11:18 pm

No way would I want a North Atlantic League or Celtic League.

Gaffer , do you watch Irish football? I doubt it. I suppose St. Mirren and St Johnstone have some top players. Doh

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Post by Kay Fabe on Mon 13 Feb 2012, 11:18 pm

Thomond wrote:Might have been Portadown, is it Cliftonville or Portadown who wear red?

I wouldn't say it was a fluke result, they went over to Belgrade and won. Not many teams could do that in such a hostile place. They played pretty well and scored with a superb goal.

I wasn't talking to you in that point Gaffer ,calm down like. You're Glaswegian so it's alright if you call them "we"

That result in Belgrade was the European result of the season

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Post by Kay Fabe on Mon 13 Feb 2012, 11:22 pm

Thomond wrote:No way would I want a North Atlantic League or Celtic League.

Gaffer , do you watch Irish football? I doubt it. I suppose St. Mirren and St Johnstone have some top players. Doh

Funny you should mention it mate as both of those clubs have been a breath of fresh air for the league this season, both play an attacking attractive passing style and try and play as much free flowing football as possible

Paul McGowan at St Mirren has been a revelation and Fran Sandaza has really stepped up his game at St Johnstone, a real goal machine, put it this way, if both thoser teams are on the telly I'll watch them, two clubs who play football the right way

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Post by 6oldenbhoy on Mon 13 Feb 2012, 11:26 pm

Thomond wrote:Might have been Portadown, is it Cliftonville or Portadown who wear red?

I wouldn't say it was a fluke result, they went over to Belgrade and won. Not many teams could do that in such a hostile place. They played pretty well and scored with a superb goal.

I wasn't talking to you in that point Gaffer ,calm down like. You're Glaswegian so it's alright if you call them "we"

If they played 100 times in Belgrade would you back Rovers to come out on top more often than not? I couldn't see them winning more than two games. That's my reason for labelling it a fluke result. But i'm not discrediting what they did, it was a great achievement.

Both wear red, but that's were the similarities end. We were always been abysmal in the Setanta Cup.

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Post by Gibson on Mon 13 Feb 2012, 11:41 pm

Celtic and Rangers would just about make English Championship level. Both rubbish. Both in serious decline and both dilusional. It doesnt say much for the rest of the league really. It's at League Of Ireland standard now. And that's saying something. Bit like the Dutch 3rd div. Only with a lot less technical ability.
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Post by Kay Fabe on Mon 13 Feb 2012, 11:44 pm

What a load of nonsense, I can't speak for Rangers but Celtic are far superior than 'just about Championship level' and saying any different is just ignorant

I suggest if you want to comment on the standard of Celtic you update your knowledge of the team and it's players before you make an informed decision, blase replies make people look ridiculous

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Post by Josiah Maiestas on Mon 13 Feb 2012, 11:53 pm

On the Larsson/Shearer debate.

Clearly the more skill and finesse player was Larsson. That isn't even up for debate as far as i'm concerned. Deadly finishing is close but i'd have to go far Shearer, afterall Alan is far ahead in all time PL goals to the 2nd top scorer yet Larsson was passed by Burke Laugh

Also I can't see local Celtic fans paying for too many away games especially when they have to go to London and London teams going to Celtic Park aswell.
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Post by Imperial Ghosty on Mon 13 Feb 2012, 11:57 pm

the-gaffer wrote:What a load of nonsense, I can't speak for Rangers but Celtic are far superior than 'just about Championship level' and saying any different is just ignorant

I suggest if you want to comment on the standard of Celtic you update your knowledge of the team and it's players before you make an informed decision, blase replies make people look ridiculous

It's not ignorant that's the thing, the current Celtic team is simply not good enough to compete in the premier league, may avoid relegation but they would be down there scraping it out.

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Post by 6oldenbhoy on Mon 13 Feb 2012, 11:58 pm

Josiah Maiestas wrote:On the Larsson/Shearer debate.

Clearly the more skill and finesse player was Larsson. That isn't even up for debate as far as i'm concerned. Deadly finishing is close but i'd have to go far Shearer, afterall Alan is far ahead in all time PL goals to the 2nd top scorer yet Larsson was passed by Burke Laugh

Also I can't see local Celtic fans paying for too many away games especially when they have to go to London and London teams going to Celtic Park aswell.

Celtic would bring one of the largest, if not the largest, away support in the league. It would be a near enough certainty that they would sell out the away end each game.

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