Who would select Paul Scholes for England?

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Post by All Time Great on Mon 13 Feb 2012, 9:17 pm

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Harry Redknapp has quoted today that he believes Scholes should be in the England National side for Euro 2012. Even at the age of 37, Scholes is still a supreme talent proven by his recent displays made even more remarkable by the fact he was retired for six months!

There is no other footballer like him in England, he's able to control and dictate the pace of a football game single handily and rarely gives the ball away. This is very much the sort of player England have been missing for many years (I personally believe Scholes has been England's most talented midfielder since the 1990s).

So would you take him on the plane? If so, you would have to start him. There's no point attempting to bring him on as an impact player. Gerrard and Lampard have both suffered on the big stage, and I personally wouldn't start with either- albeit they would most likely be in my squad.

I would go for a midfield trio of Wilshere, Parker & Scholes. That's just a midfield packed with talent and steel. With the likes of Ashley Young, Theo Walcott, Arron Lennon, Adam Johnson, Danny Welbeck and maybe even Oxlade Chamberlain on the wing England will have plenty of pace to burn.

International football is about fine margins, I personally believe Scholes will bring that much needed extra bit of creativity and fluency England desperately need.

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Post by Ent on Wed 15 Feb 2012, 10:08 pm

You must be taking the urine with the Agbonlahor suggestion.

1 player in that front 6 in a formation they are used to (and he probably won't be fully fit) and all of the back 5 from different clubs.

What is the point going to a major championships with a side like that.

I'd like to point out I'm not English but you should have a go at winning the thing or performing well under no pressure, maybe blood a youngster or w and then have the mass clear out in preparing for the next world cup.

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Post by Imperial Ghosty on Wed 15 Feb 2012, 10:16 pm

Hart, Ferdinand and Cole are going to have no problems playing together which leaves two tricky choices, the obvious one would be Terry but should he be picked and will he be picked? That still leaves right back where Jones and Smalling simply don't deserve to be selected over Walker.

The whole of the front 6 are used to playing in a 4-3-3 formation, United played it for years in the champions league using Carrick, Scholes and Rooney while Agbonlahor and Young played for Villa using the same tactics under O'Neill.

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Post by Ent on Wed 15 Feb 2012, 10:43 pm

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Hart, Ferdinand and Cole are going to have no problems playing together which leaves two tricky choices, the obvious one would be Terry but should he be picked and will he be picked? That still leaves right back where Jones and Smalling simply don't deserve to be selected over Walker.

The whole of the front 6 are used to playing in a 4-3-3 formation, United played it for years in the champions league using Carrick, Scholes and Rooney while Agbonlahor and Young played for Villa using the same tactics under O'Neill.

United played 433 occassionally in europe, often away from home and it was never fluid. They played 442 the other 40 games of the season, Rooney doesn't lead the line well on his own and you lose his use in dropping back.

Agbonlahor isn't good enough and is primarily a striker, Young mostly plays on the left wing.

The back 5 just won't be used to playing together and Ferdinand and Cole will be constantly on the lookout for where Walker and Jagielka are. Walker is no more deserving than Smalling or Jones at least the 2 of them have some brief CL and international experience.

You can mess about trying to get the best 11 players in a side with the occassional youngster blooded like England have done for the last 16 years with no joy or you could play a side with every player in their natural position and the majority of the team playing together and used to winning.

Base it on City if you want with Hart, Richards, Lescott, Barry, Milner, Johnson. Or Chelsea with Terry, Cahill, Cole, Lampard, Sturridge.

England should play a team for once.

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Post by Imperial Ghosty on Wed 15 Feb 2012, 10:46 pm

United played 4-3-3 a lot of the time and Rooney does lead the line well on his own, Fletcher, Carrick and Scholes in midfield with Rooney, Ronaldo and one of Tevez, Nani or Park was our preferred formation for quite a while.

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Post by Ent on Wed 15 Feb 2012, 10:59 pm

Imperial Ghosty wrote:United played 4-3-3 a lot of the time and Rooney does lead the line well on his own, Fletcher, Carrick and Scholes in midfield with Rooney, Ronaldo and one of Tevez, Nani or Park was our preferred formation for quite a while.

I disagree, Rooney may have scored a lot of goals in his only true season as a lone striker but he got very few assists, we played gash football and won nothing. He used to get shunted out wide so Ronaldo could lead the line. Rooney is much better with a penetrating front man in front of him and quick wingers who get forward e.g. Saha + Ronaldo 07 or Welbeck, Young, Nani early this year.

We rarely played 433 in the league and we played anything but fluid football in the CL - I'm not complaining it was a brilliant run we had and the correct tactics but it is not by any stretch the formation our players are most used to or comfortable with - they can function in it but I'd rather my national side was more than functional.

If you want to go 433 I'd go with most of city's side and fill the gaps around it - do you really think there is anysense in e.g. asking Rooney to play up front alone when hes played 50 games as a second striker with Welbeck or Hernandez ahead of him, or to play Young on the right of a 433 when he's been playing on the left of a 442 etc etc

No point putting round pegs in square holes cos it might work, just play a team made of players in their normal positions who play together regularly - dont care which club side you base it on.

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Post by All Time Great on Wed 15 Feb 2012, 11:01 pm

Abonglohor struggled to even make the top 10 strikers in England, I couldnt imagine he would ever get taken (although he is talented). Bent, Sturridge and Welbeck are considered far superior. Then you have the next band of players in Defoe, Carroll, Zamora and Crouch. I would Abonglohor just behind them.

I really do think people are understating the A Cole, Terry, Cahill connection. Along with Joe Hart behind them, and Micah Richards at right back that is an extremely solid back line with players who have played together.

It doesn't really matter who plays on the wing, none of them are exceptional (tbh, hardly anything separates all of them- possibly Ash Young the best of the bunch, but Oxlade is really looking the part...)

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Post by Imperial Ghosty on Wed 15 Feb 2012, 11:04 pm

A defence with Richards, Terry and Cahill would get completely annihilated.

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Post by mystiroakey on Wed 15 Feb 2012, 11:06 pm

ent i tiotally agree with your sentiment.

However and this is from a neautrals perspective(not a united fan) if we go with the spine from a team- it has to be uniteds spine. United are the only team out of the top few which its success is based on english talent

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Post by BarneyRubble on Thu 16 Feb 2012, 10:31 am

Think Scholes would add to the squad for 2012, he brings something other England midfielders don't have.....passing range, ability to keep the ball and set the pace of the game.
That said, we have little or no chance in 2012 anyway so probably better to use it to develop youngsters ready for our misguided World Cup 2014 winning expectations!

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Post by All Time Great on Fri 17 Feb 2012, 12:35 am

BarneyRubble wrote:Think Scholes would add to the squad for 2012, he brings something other England midfielders don't have.....passing range, ability to keep the ball and set the pace of the game.
That said, we have little or no chance in 2012 anyway so probably better to use it to develop youngsters ready for our misguided World Cup 2014 winning expectations!

You always have a chance in knock out football. We have a solid bunch of players and one outstanding player in Wayne Rooney. We have a multiple number of defenders who could also get into most national sides... We now also finally have, a great goalkeeper in Joe Hart.

Our missing link was having that player who could make things tick, keep the ball and pretty much play football like a game of chess. Paul Scholes is the master orchestrator, with him in the starting line up I believe we will see the best from the likes of Young, Wilshere and Rooney & co.

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Post by BarneyRubble on Fri 17 Feb 2012, 10:21 am

All Time Great wrote:
BarneyRubble wrote:Think Scholes would add to the squad for 2012, he brings something other England midfielders don't have.....passing range, ability to keep the ball and set the pace of the game.
That said, we have little or no chance in 2012 anyway so probably better to use it to develop youngsters ready for our misguided World Cup 2014 winning expectations!

You always have a chance in knock out football. We have a solid bunch of players and one outstanding player in Wayne Rooney. We have a multiple number of defenders who could also get into most national sides... We now also finally have, a great goalkeeper in Joe Hart.

Our missing link was having that player who could make things tick, keep the ball and pretty much play football like a game of chess. Paul Scholes is the master orchestrator, with him in the starting line up I believe we will see the best from the likes of Young, Wilshere and Rooney & co.

Agree there is always a chance but a solid group of players will not be enough to challenge Spain, Germany, Portugal or even some of the other European sides. I like Hart in goal but who are the multiple defenders we have who could get into most national sides? Terry no, Cole maybe when on form, Johnson no, Ferdinand no longer,Jones in the future..... agree Scholes is a master orchestrator but that is not our only missing link sadly.

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Post by Diggers on Fri 17 Feb 2012, 1:39 pm

Re defenders, we have 3 fantastic right backs in Jonson, Richards and Walker. Two very good left backs in Cole and Baines (Baines very underrated and can actually cross plus take a pen).
Centre backs more of an issue but if all fit we have Lescott, Ferdinand, Jones, Smalling, Ledley King, Dawson coming back to fitness and form. Micah Richards could also be a possibility at centre half especially with his pace.
Dawson and Lescott to me is not a bad pairing. To be fair if Dawson stays fit and plays well he could also be a shout as skipper long term, good leader.

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Post by super_realist on Fri 17 Feb 2012, 2:18 pm

There is a lot of English players who come across as nonchalent and complacent.
It might be good to sweep the team sheet clean and make everyone realise their place isn't guaranteed and their selection is subject to whether they fit into the style of play required for a particular game, therefore have 3 or 4 players available in every position pre selection.
Personally I'd like to see the back of Cole and Terry as they bring more disrepute and scurulous headlines to the team than they bring in footballing terms and are more disruptive than productive.

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Post by Diggers on Fri 17 Feb 2012, 2:39 pm

Its good to have options but by and large a good team is a settled team. Sure, change the odd player now and again, but understanding counts for a lot. Especially in international football when the players dont play together all that often.
We keep mentioning Spain but they dont tend to mix up their side that much. club sides like Barca will play morep layers in different games but the players all know each other from training every day. And when it comes to the big games you can pretty much name the side everytime in advance.

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Post by super_realist on Fri 17 Feb 2012, 3:16 pm

Perhaps Diggers, just don't think England have anything to lose by trying something different. They've done the same thing for years with no success

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Post by dyrewolfe on Fri 17 Feb 2012, 3:57 pm

Moot question.

Scholes retired from international duty quite some time before he retired from Man Utd. Even if whoever the next England manager is asked him to, he'd decline in all probability.

To answer the question though, I wouldn't pick Scholes. I believe in long term planning and developing our younger players. If the current players aren't cutting it, look forwards, rather than backwards.
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Post by Muppets on Fri 17 Feb 2012, 7:35 pm

He did claim he regretted not going to the 2010 World Cup though in an interview with the BBC after being recalled quite late on?

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Post by All Time Great on Fri 17 Feb 2012, 8:16 pm

dyrewolfe wrote:Moot question.

Scholes retired from international duty quite some time before he retired from Man Utd. Even if whoever the next England manager is asked him to, he'd decline in all probability.

To answer the question though, I wouldn't pick Scholes. I believe in long term planning and developing our younger players. If the current players aren't cutting it, look forwards, rather than backwards.

I don't think Scholes is a backwards step at all. If anything he will help show the younger players how to control a game, and England have severely lacked this for a considerable amount of time.

My notion is- get the system right first and then blood the players in. England need to start learning how to keep the ball (let's be fair, our players are simply not technical enough). Once Scholes departs it will be time for the likes of Rodwell, Wilshere and Cleverly to follow his lead.

I don't think we'll win the Euro's but i would be delighted if we made the Semi's and played good football in the process (like Euro 96')

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Post by mystiroakey on Fri 17 Feb 2012, 8:18 pm

semis will be the happy point, quarters will be average and abit annoying, below quarters bad

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Post by Josiah Maiestas on Fri 17 Feb 2012, 9:03 pm

He did claim he regretted not going to the 2010 World Cup though in an interview with the BBC after being recalled quite late on?

He said it came too late. nope

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/jun/07/paul-scholes-fabio-capello-world-cup
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Post by Josiah Maiestas on Fri 17 Feb 2012, 9:06 pm

mystiroakey wrote:semis will be the happy point, quarters will be average and abit annoying, below quarters bad
Germany, Holland, Spain, Italy should be making the semi's. Portugal, Russia, France and England should be able to make the QF.
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Post by super_realist on Sat 18 Feb 2012, 7:18 am

A qf for Engerland is far from a foregone conclusion. Have you seen their group? France, Sweden and Ukraine as hosts with a massive support are all capable of getting out of that group. It's pretty much any two from four, not a case that any one team 'should' be getting out of that group.

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Post by All Time Great on Sat 18 Feb 2012, 10:23 am

super_realist wrote:A qf for Engerland is far from a foregone conclusion. Have you seen their group? France, Sweden and Ukraine as hosts with a massive support are all capable of getting out of that group. It's pretty much any two from four, not a case that any one team 'should' be getting out of that group.

Agree with that. France, although not at their best can never be written off. Sweden, have always troubled England in the past and Ukraine will be no push overs with home support.

I would argue we are the best side in the group however. Let's not forget, the Euro's is a lot harder than the world cup (given there isn't really any free points to be received). England realistically will need to win their group to have a chance of making serious progress in the Summer.

Re: Defenders- I feel we have so much talent to choose from:

Mica Richards
Glenn Johnson
Kyle Walker
Gary Cahill
John Terry
Rio Ferdinand
Chris Smalling
Phil Jones
Michael Dawson
Ledley King
Phil Jageyelka
Joleon Lescott
Ashley Cole
Leighton Baines
Wayne Bridge* (now at Sunderland)

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Post by Guest on Sat 18 Feb 2012, 4:53 pm

The overlying problem of Harry Redknapp being England manager is the possibility of him picking his worthless nephew for another 4 years over better central midfielders.

Hopefully we get an England manager with the balls to drop the likes of Gerrard, Lampard, Terry and all the other trash players who have ruined England's tournament chances because they are picked on name and not form or suitability to perform together.

If Paul Scholes can get a job done then take him. But you theoretically have to start playing him in friendlies as soon as possible. Can't just take him to the Euros and expect miracles.


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