Associate and Affiliate cricket discussion thread

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Associate and Affiliate cricket discussion thread

Post by Shelsey93 on Sat 18 Feb 2012, 9:27 am

First topic message reminder :

I thought I'd create this thread to discuss the Associate and Affiliate matches/tournaments going on around the world.

Scotland are currently going well against UAE in the Intercontinental Cup match in Sharjah after bowling them out for 100, and then posting 305 with a ton from Richie Berrington. UAE currently 159/3 and only 41 behind though with key man Saqib Ali (FC average 54) in.

Meanwhile, in the 1st ODI at Mombasa, Ireland are 193/7 against Kenya. Paul Stirling made 46 and Kevin O'Brien 39 but things are quite slow going otherwise on a pitch which, on the evidence of the Intercontinal Cup game, turns considerably.

Finally Malaysia, Argentina, Guernsey, Bahrain, Cayman Islands and hosts Singapore are contesting World Cricket League Division Five. Guernsey bowled out Bahrain for 49 and won by 9 wickets on the opening day today while in a pair of rain affected matches, Argentina are falling well short against Malaysia and the home side are just about to complete a win over the Cayman Islands.

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Re: Associate and Affiliate cricket discussion thread

Post by Mike Selig on Sat 27 Jul 2013, 10:38 pm

Apparently the tournament regs state that if any matches which could have an impact on the top 4 don't take place because of weather, then the play-off matches are cancelled, and those matches replace them. All above board then.

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Re: Associate and Affiliate cricket discussion thread

Post by Mike Selig on Sun 28 Jul 2013, 7:36 pm

The reserve/play-off day does its job and ensures the most consistent 2 teams from the tournament get promoted, as easy wins for Jersey (over a spirited Vanuatu side) and Nigeria (over an Argentina side severely lacking in bowlers) seal their promotions. Vanuatu finish 3rd and will stay in WCL 6. The other 3 sides are relegated.

Jersey were really a cut above the other teams, helped by home advantage (I suspect conditions in Jersey are VERY different from what the other teams are used to). They are a very well drilled and well led side, well balanced with strength in all departments, and only missed out by a whisker against Italy recently to get to the global qualifiers for the world T20. They have a very good youth program, and it is good to see them continuously on the up. To highlight the quality of the side, Anthony Hawkins-Kay who is one of their top 2 seamers only bowled 1 over all tournament due to injury.

Nigeria and Vanuatu are fairly equivalent. They have some quality and a lot of enthusiasm, but not nearly as well drilled (or "professional") as Jersey and that showed. Their back-up players are not quite up to scratch. Nigeria's opening win over Vanuatu in the end made the difference, but I can't see them making a real impact on WCL 6 if I'm honest.

Argentina's slide has been sad, so it was nice to see them win a couple of matches, but their bowling is really quite weak, and their two wins owed as much to a lack of opposition as anything else. They now drop out of the WCL structure entirely, and will have to get back in through the regional structure. They should manage, because cricket in South America is arguably the weakest zone.

Kuwait's slide was a bit of a surprise. Bahrain's was more predictable. Both suffered from the alien conditions, an ageing and unfit side, and an over-reliance on expats at past tournaments.

It has been a theme of cricket in the last couple of years that the teams relying mostly on expats rather than home grown talent have generally slid down the rankings (Italy the notable exception, but examples include Norway, Germany, Croatia and now Bahrain). This is very good news, because to produce sustainable quality and long-term success you need a bottom-up structure via real grass roots program, and a junior development program which ensures the next generation is always well catered for. Whilst this takes more time, in the long run it will produce much better and more sustainable success. Jersey are a good example - they've invested in their youth players, and despite a couple of set-backs along the way they are now in a much better place. Encouraging signs from Germany as well.

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Re: Associate and Affiliate cricket discussion thread

Post by Guest on Mon 29 Jul 2013, 1:25 pm

thought i would post it on here..

Ray Price has retired.

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Re: Associate and Affiliate cricket discussion thread

Post by Mike Selig on Mon 29 Jul 2013, 8:33 pm

Price had a good career and could have done better had he not been in political "exile" for a good chunk of his prime years. I remember him and offie Doug Mariller tying up the England batsmen in knots in an ODI game (not sure what year, but England made 190ish - Rob Key was batting and struggled against the spinners - and Zimbabwe chased it down after a few wobbles) ending up with 1-20 and 1-30 respectively.

However, he has never played for a affiliate or associate nation, so not sure this is the right place...

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Re: Associate and Affiliate cricket discussion thread

Post by Corporalhumblebucket on Mon 29 Jul 2013, 9:59 pm

Maybe Zimbabwe will end up as an affiliate or associate nation....Whistle

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Re: Associate and Affiliate cricket discussion thread

Post by atletico86 on Sat 03 Aug 2013, 11:25 am

u19 world cup European qualifiers are on at the minute. Only 1 team qualifies for the tournament
on the 1st day - Scotland beat Jersey, Holland beat Ireland & Denmark beat Geurnsey.

Scotland are favourites, and have put much preparation for this tourney so they should defend their crown. Its a bad generation of irish players apart from a couple, and their preparation for this tourney has been a joke. Don't know much about the other teams but Holland are hosts and may challenge Scotland. They have triplets in their squad!

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Re: Associate and Affiliate cricket discussion thread

Post by Mike Selig on Sat 03 Aug 2013, 7:30 pm

Link here for anyone interested: http://www.cricketeurope4.net/CRICKETEUROPE/DATABASE/2013/TOURNAMENTS/EUROU19/index.shtml

Scotland have scraped past Holland today, which may well be their toughest match.

Anyone know why Daniel Doram is not playing for the Dutch? I know he's only 15, but one of the genuine talents in European cricket.

A few of the Danish names are familiar from 2 years ago. Surprised to see their U17 captain from last year didn't make the squad (young leggie called Adeel something - was at the CoE in La Manga in 2011 and looked pretty useful).

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Re: Associate and Affiliate cricket discussion thread

Post by atletico86 on Sun 04 Aug 2013, 11:38 pm

Mike Selig wrote:Link here for anyone interested: http://www.cricketeurope4.net/CRICKETEUROPE/DATABASE/2013/TOURNAMENTS/EUROU19/index.shtml

Scotland have scraped past Holland today, which may well be their toughest match.

Anyone know why Daniel Doram is not playing for the Dutch? I know he's only 15, but one of the genuine talents in European cricket.

A few of the Danish names are familiar from 2 years ago. Surprised to see their U17 captain from last year didn't make the squad (young leggie called Adeel something - was at the CoE in La Manga in 2011 and looked pretty useful).

Im sure I've read somewhere that he is ineligible for this tournament but I can't remember why. Heard he was very impressive against Ireland in the intercontinental match.
Scotland should win it now, unless they blow it against Ireland, I assume it comes down to net run rate if teams are level

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Re: Associate and Affiliate cricket discussion thread

Post by Guest on Sun 27 Oct 2013, 7:13 pm

Kenya have called Steve Tikolo up at the age of 42!!!#desperation

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Re: Associate and Affiliate cricket discussion thread

Post by Mike Selig on Sun 27 Oct 2013, 8:44 pm

Kenya have desperately gone backwards, which is a real shame.

It would be a bit of a surprise to see them qualify for the T20 as things stand.

The qualifier is now not far away. Might be worth a thread when the time comes.

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Re: Associate and Affiliate cricket discussion thread

Post by guildfordbat on Sun 27 Oct 2013, 9:19 pm

I don't know if any of this at all belongs at the door of the Kenya national team but there's something odd gone on with one of their recent international players - Seren Waters.

Even though only in his early 20s now, he opened the batting for Kenya in the World Cup a couple of years ago. Although he scored few runs, I recall Ian Chappell being complimentary about him on commentary. I was listening out for any mention as he had already played a bit for Surrey seconds. Following that and him being at Durham University until, I think, summer 2012, he seemed to go off the radar until he popped up again this summer playing for a village team (admittedly a decent one) near me. All rather strange.


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Re: Associate and Affiliate cricket discussion thread

Post by atletico86 on Fri 13 Dec 2013, 11:06 am

Just to say Ireland made it a hat-trick of associate titles after beating Afghanistan in the Intercontinental cup in what was an intriguing game. Ireland were without the services of tim murtagh due to personal family reasons and gary wilson due to illness. The game see-sawed a fair bit but ireland eventually won by 122runs. John Mooney bowled the best I have ever seen him and got 10 wickets and a deserved Man-of-the-Match. It was quite ironic as he would have probably not played if Murtagh had not flown home. Ed Joyce, Niall O'Brien and John anderson hit 50s, while Rehmat Shah hit a quite brilliant 86notout for Afghanistan

This match was also Trent Johnston's last match for ireland. He didnt quite have the fairy-tale ending as he could only bowl 2 overs in the 2nd innings and had to come off with an achilles injury. In the 1st innings he bowled quite brilliantly and was unlucky only to get 2 wickets, he beat the edge numerous times and when it did get the edge either didnt carry or got dropped!! He also got 30odd runs while batting. The big-man has been an absolute warrior for ireland and his services to irish cricket quite legendary. He will be missed by all Irish fans

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Re: Associate and Affiliate cricket discussion thread

Post by Guest on Sun 15 Dec 2013, 9:20 am

Trent Johnston is offically retired, farewell to the man who carried ireland's bowling attack for a long time

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Re: Associate and Affiliate cricket discussion thread

Post by GunsGerms on Mon 16 Dec 2013, 10:05 am

Excuse my ignorgance but what is associate and affiliate cricket? Are Ireland and good?

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Re: Associate and Affiliate cricket discussion thread

Post by Mike Selig on Tue 17 Dec 2013, 8:05 am

GunsGerms wrote:Excuse my ignorgance but what is associate and affiliate cricket?
All cricket played outside the test playing nations (or "full members"). There are 106 members of the ICC as things currently stand (although cricket is played in more countries than those, e.g. Swizerland), of which only 10 allow themselves (I choose my words carefully) to play test cricket; the other 96 play very real international cricket, in the shorter formats which are given lesser statuses. That way they don't get above their stations, because that would be dangerous as they might then ask for unreasonable things like transparency, accountability, fair representation and fair and open qualifications to global tournaments.

Sorry, the above is a bit flippant. To be factual, there are 96 countries members of the ICC outside the 10 test playing nations. These countries are split into a further two categories called associates and affiliates, based on a set of criteria such as number of grounds, teams competing at junior, senior and women's level, etc. Most of these countries also play internationals, mainly 50 overs and T20s, but the top sides also play 4 day matches, in a variety of tournaments at regional (which means European, Asian, etc.) and global (e.g. world cup qualifiers, or the World Cricket League) level.

GunsGerms wrote:Are Ireland and good?

I suppose it is a bit relative isn't it? They have consistently been the best side outside the test nations for the last 6 or 7 years. They have had a terrific year winning every competition they've been involved in, and nearly beating Pakistan twice. IMO they would come very close to beating most county sides (even more if they had their best batsman and bowler available) and are about the same standard as Bangladesh (and not far off Zimbabwe). That is a lot better than anything everyone on here will ever be (possible exception of kingraf who seems to have played at a very decent standard), but of course compared to the top sides it is not all that good. A decent comparison may be Italy or Tonga in rugby union.

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Re: Associate and Affiliate cricket discussion thread

Post by GunsGerms on Tue 17 Dec 2013, 11:48 am

Thanks Mike.

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Re: Associate and Affiliate cricket discussion thread

Post by atletico86 on Fri 20 Dec 2013, 11:31 am

Ireland to play 2T20 and 1 odi against west indies towards the end of February....cant wait for it!!!

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Re: Associate and Affiliate cricket discussion thread

Post by GunsGerms on Fri 20 Dec 2013, 11:51 am

atletico86 wrote:Ireland to play 2T20 and 1 odi against west indies towards the end of February....cant wait for it!!!

Are you an Ireland fan? I just joined Leinster cricket club to see what it is all about.

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Re: Associate and Affiliate cricket discussion thread

Post by atletico86 on Sat 21 Dec 2013, 2:52 pm

GunsGerms wrote:
atletico86 wrote:Ireland to play 2T20 and 1 odi against west indies towards the end of February....cant wait for it!!!

Are you an Ireland fan? I just joined Leinster cricket club to see what it is all about.

I am I'm afraid...Leinster cricket club, thats George Dockrell's old club. They have a number of teams, and their first team play at a very good standard. Never played up there myself as I am from cork and used to play down there when I lived back home.

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Re: Associate and Affiliate cricket discussion thread

Post by Mike Selig on Tue 26 Aug 2014, 10:40 am

So, we haven't had a discussion on A & A cricket for aaaaaages?

And given that there is not that much going on in the world of the full members outside some utterly pointless and meaningless one-day stuff... I thought I would entertain you (sure) with a blow-by-blow of the recently concluded and now annual 4-nations U19 event.

Teams: France, Belgium, Germany, Switzerland (Luxemburg played the first edition back in 2012, but have been replaced by the Swiss since).

History: France won in 2012 on net run-rate, thanks in part to an unusually weak Belgian side (who we thrashed by 230 runs on the final day to secure the tournament). Belgium got their revenge in 2013 with their bowlers dominating (our score of exactly 100 against them was the highest they conceded), France finished 2nd after a tense and at times bad tempered final day win over Germany.

This year: France was hosting, using two grounds on the outskirts of Paris. For the first time, in addition to the traditional round-robin phase, a finals day was introduced. Unfortunately because of the travel involved for the other teams and tight budgets meaning everybody was keen to save on an extra night, this meant the finals had to be contested in T20 format whilst the round-robin matches were full ODI 50 overs rules. However as it happened this worked out very well overall - there was real atmosphere there on finals day with all the teams present, and a decent proportion of local support as well. Moreover the final was an excellent match, undoubtedly showcasing the best cricket of the tournament. But we'll get to that presently.

French Squad: Daniel Nott (C), Lucien Calkin, Daniel Davidson, James Dawkins, Waheed Jamil, Hashir Javed, Flavien Jiffry, Bilal Mian, Kashif Muhammad, Dixit Patel, Kamal Patel, Rémi Rocher, Shabbaz Shabir, Alex Young.
Coach = me Smile

A good mix of experience and youth, if you can ever say that for a junior team squad. Dan Davidson has been playing youth cricket for French teams since 2008, whilst Danny, James, Kamal have all played all 3 editions of this event. France has recently had a (very good, if you ask me) policy of including our more talented 15-16 year olds in and around the U19 side to give them experience for future years, and as well as the aforementioned players, people like Dixit and Remi this year have come on leaps and bounds since first being around the team.

Our squad was however somewhat decimated by a series of players being unavailable for a variety of reasons, ranging from issues with their paperwork (this is not all that rare at A&A level), family hollidays (for the guys with family in the subcontinent they often prepare long trips back there over the summer hols) and injury. In total 6 players who would have been challenging for starting 11 spots had to be replaced. This left our reserves looking a bit thin on the ground, and as things turned out we used the same 11 throughout the tournament; Waheed, Flavien and Shabbaz were the unlucky 3 to miss out, but it is entirely to their credit that they never let the disappointment get to them and were nothing but supportive of the team in their endeavours.

Daniel Nott captained the side for the 3rd year in succession.

The matches:

Day 1: Switzerland 127 all out beat France 90 all out.

Well this wasn't the start we had hoped for was it? With the Swiss expecting to be the weaker of the 4 sides, and France amongst the favourites, the tournament got off to a start with a shock result. From a France perspective I reckon we let the pressure of a home tournament, as well as being favourites, get to us, and with nerves crippling our performance we never managed to express ourselves as we could.

We lost the toss but would have bowled first anyway, partly due to reports of showers during the afternoon. Our bowling performance was really illustrative of the team's state: nervous. We struggled to really take the game by the scruff of the neck, and the Swiss resisted well, pretty much batting out their overs. Youngster Rémi Rocher's gentle outswingers were probably the pick with 2-13 from 7 overs, but even he bowled 6 wides, out of a total of 26 in total - criminal in such a low-scoring game! Our spinners Kamal and Dixit did OK, but didn't really have the impact we'd hoped for. Given our overall quality, the Swiss shouldn't really have passed 100, but to their credit they gutsed it out, and we couldn't quite get on top.

Even so, 128 should have been easily chaseable. Our openers set off reasonably, but a poor run-out meant we lost Lucien, our most solid batsman. From then on, you could sense the panic setting in - this wasn't supposed to be happening. Kamal and Danny got out playing across the line, and after a bit of a recovery Bilal nicked a good one to 2nd slip, Dan missed a full toss and the tail all basically threw their wickets away with ordinary shots.

The Swiss bowled well as a unit and took their catches, but their best bowler only took 1 of the 10 wickets. Their spinner took 4, and he wasn't that good.

Not the start we wanted, and that evening the team's morale was really down in the dumps. A bit of a pep talk from the coach reminded them that 2 wins in our next 2 matches still gave us a good shot of making the final.

Day 2: France 141 all out beat Germany 73 all out.

The day our tournament turned around. Winning the toss (which is a bit of a rarity - Danny is a perfectly good captain, but his tossing skills are terrible), we decided we would put the previous day's calamity behind us and bat first. Unfortunately, our top-order retained a hangover, and in spite of a few decent starts everybody again chucked their wicket away and we found ourselves 70odd for 7 (of those 7, only one could be thought to be got out by a good piece of bowling).

Then came a match and tournament changing partnership. Dixit who had previously been a solid number 11 was promoted up a couple of places, and found himself batting with Alex who this coach had insisted retain his place in the team despite a poor performance the day before. Together the two youngsters (Alex is 17, Dixit 16) proceeded to add on 49 pretty chanceless and absolutely vital runs. Both showed astonishing maturity in building the partnership, starting slowly but progressively accelerating. A few late blows from Kashif got us up to the 140 mark.

Whilst that doesn't sound many, the whole mood of the team had changed. We now had a score which if our bowlers performed we could defend. We knew it, and importantly the Germans also knew it. The momentum of the match had been turned on its head going into lunch, as I drove home the point that this was now a game we could go out and win. A quick pep talk also established that we would be more aggressive in the field, and whilst this almost boiled over on a couple of occasions (there was a send-off which in an ICC event would have meant a trip to the match referee's room), the added intensity we found as a unit really lifted the side.

As things turned out the Germans were never really in the chase. Alex took an absolute screamer at 3rd slip to get rid of their opener, and from that moment on we never looked back. James was back to his best bowling 4 consecutive maidens, and then the spinners took over. Kamal and Dixit judged the German batsmen brilliantly, and teased, coaxed and enticed them. Our fields were set well, and the Germans couldn't cope with the pressure. Only their number 6 resisted, but he was finally 9th out to Kamal's straighter one curtesy of a lovely diving catch by Dan at 1st slip. In Dixit's next over he tossed one up high and the German tail-ender gave Kamal a simple catch at mid-on to give us the win.

The Germans made a show of complaining about the levels of sledging, but in all honesty it was nothing untoward. We were intense yes, aggressive at times but not in the batsman's face and nothing bad was said. The Germans gave as good as they got at times, but couldn't fight the fire we showed on the field.

There was a lot to be happy about, despite the top-order's continued struggles. As much as anything the way we'd managed to reassess and make sure of a total that was defendable was really pleasing. As of course was our completely dominating bowling performance.

On return to the hotel we found out that Belgium had rolled over the Swiss for 85, with saffer quickie Michael Cohen (who was on Western Province's books) taking 6 wickets. This meant that a win over Belgium would virtually guarantee our place in the final (as our NRR looked good when compared to the Swiss) whilst a defeat would still leave things open provided the Germans beat the Swiss and the Belgians defeated the Germans (both, we thought, were the more likely results based on what we'd seen so far, but we'd rather not have to count on it).

Day 3: Belgium 86 all out lost to France 87/2.

A lot of talk about Michael Cohen going into the match, but coming out of it the talk was of young slow left-armer Dixit Patel who took 5 wickets in another dominating French bowling display.

Another toss lost, but another pep talk drove home the importance of producing the same kind of intensity as the day before. And despite a decidedly poor warm-up, once the team went out on the pitch we did just that. The first over from James was a maiden, and then Hashir trapped the Belgian opener plumb LBW 2nd ball. We were absolutely on top from then on, the seamers keeping on the pressure and the spinners again delivering. At one stage we had Belgium 52-8. Dixit's flight and dip to have the best Belgian player Hakim out stumped was a masterful bit of bowling and symbolised the way we were now playing our cricket - intelligent and with genuine quality. The Belgian tail slogged a few, we probably kept Kamal on a bit long, but got out just as things were getting annoying.

87 to chase, but because of the quirks of the rules instead of going in to lunch we had to come straight out to bat. Michael Cohen turned out to be quick but not excessively so, and quite wayward. We took 7 from his first over, all extras (3 wides and 4 leg-byes) as he struggled with his radar. Both our openers looked solid, and with Belgium bowling enough bad balls as they strived for wickets there was no need to take any risks. As things happened we reached lunch at a very comfortable 56-0 (19 overs) and despite losing Danny first ball after lunch, we knocked the runs off with ease. Lucien and Dan took the chance to practice a few more aggressive shots with the T20 in mind, and this eventually cost Lucien his wicket as he skied one to be very well caught, but by then the game was in the bag.

News from the other ground was that Germany had scored 179 against the Swiss. I quickly worked out that the Swiss would have to chase that down in roughly 15 overs to overhaul our NRR - unlikely we thought (as it happens the Swiss fell just short), which meant that with us on 2 wins, Belgium on 1, Switzerland on 1 (but crucially couldn't overtake us even if they beat Germany due to NRR) and the Germans on none (with Belgium-Germany scheduled for the next day, and France and Switzerland having a rest) we were through to the final! A brilliant turn-around after the disappointment of the opening day, and testament to the team's resolve, fighting spirit, and the team ethic both on and off the field.

Day 4: rest day for us. Belgium piled on the runs against Germany, with Hakim scoring a fine hundred (although he was missed a few times early on). We relaxed, watched a bit of the game, and had a short but intense training session focusing on our T20 skills.

With none of the teams there used to the T20 format, and a big outfield (esp for U19s) we figured 120 with our bowling would be a winning score. It was less about the big hits, but making sure we scored off as many balls as possible, and with the ball building up the pressure and then taking pace off the ball and having them come at our spinners with boundary riders in place. That was the plan anyway.

Day 5: final = France 114 all out beat Belgium 95 all out.

Earlier in the day Germany had defeated the Swiss comfortably for 3rd place. A shame for the Swiss who had started brightly, but lacked the experience and know-how to push on.

We lost the toss again (3 out of 4, which is about Danny's average) but wanted to bat first in any case. I was a bit surprised the Belgians wanted to bowl given their big score the day before - afraid of the French bowling attack? That's how I put it to our team (within earshot of the opposition of course!) anyway...

We got off to a decent start, with Dan being promoted to open. Lucien and Danny were both beaten by good slower balls from Hakim, before Dan who was batting very well tried a hook and the ball got through his grill - a nasty cut above the eye which required him to go to hospital to have stitches. Kamal took over but got a cracking inswinging yorker from Cohen (who bowled a lot better) and when Alex chopped one on we were 56-5 (effectively 6) and in a lot of trouble.

Once again a bit of shifting of the batting order meant this time Dixit and James were in together, and again they were able to dig us out of a hole through thoughtful cricket. Unfortunately they then got out in quick succession just as it looked like we would push on, but thankfully Kashif and Hashir hit some good shots to keep us going. When Rémi was run-out attempting an optimistic single with a couple of balls to spare (fair enough, as it would have gotten the better hitter Hashir back on strike) we'd made 114, just shy of the 120 we'd wanted, but we figured a 50-50 score.

We then bowled to be honest absolutely brilliantly. In terms of how to go about defending a smallish total with our bowlers at that level, it is hard to see what we could have done better collectively (there was a dropped catch which looked costly, and a poor over from Dixit). we opened up with spin, Dan Davidson having come back from hospital in time, and him, James and Hashir took us through the powerplay without any damage, Belgium being 21-1. Then pace off the ball, field spread, come and get us. Belgium tried, but our bowlers were too good. Kamal bowled a lovely spell, and was well backed up in the field as first Bilal and then Hashir took absolutely cracking outfield catches, the latter a diving effort inches off the ground to get rid of Hakim for 44 (Kamal had previously missed him at long-on).

We kept up the pressure and it told with a couple of run-outs and Dan returned to take a couple of wickets also, the last one illustrative of our tactical awareness the clever nature of our cricket as Rémi dropped back on the edge of the circle at mid-wicket for the last couple of balls of the over and was rewarded by having the ball hit straight to him (had he been at orthodox mid-wicket it would have gone over him and been 2 runs). With Belgium requiring 21 off the last 2, Hashir produced a great over and we got a run-out, before their leftie skied an attempted heave straight to short third-man. Kashif took the easy catch, sparking jubilant scenes of celebration both on the pitch and on the sidelines.

A very high quality final, with the better team winning out on the day. What stood out for me was the maturity of the team, the way we could switch on once on the field (and still enjoy a laugh off it), our tactical awareness, our coherent and clear gameplans. None of the other sides had that, and it is testament to the hard work the guys put in on their games throughout the year, and frankly the investment which I put in as well. It felt during the tournament like this was a proper and well drilled unit, who knew what they were doing and went about their business in a professional manner. Very impressive for U19s.

That's now twice in 3 editions that France has won this event, and this year it felt very very good indeed. I can't express how proud I am of the players and the effort they've put in.

One happy coach. Very Happy


Last edited by Mike Selig on Tue 26 Aug 2014, 5:17 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Associate and Affiliate cricket discussion thread

Post by guildfordbat on Tue 26 Aug 2014, 12:46 pm

Mike - that's a remarkably comprehensive post brimming with deserved pride. With such thoroughness and enthusiasm, I'm not surprised your guys did so well. Congratulations!

Are any of these players linked to English counties? Just wondering if some might be seen over here in the future. I recall France had a young legspinner who was highly regarded - is he still around?

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Re: Associate and Affiliate cricket discussion thread

Post by Mike Selig on Tue 26 Aug 2014, 5:24 pm

Thanks guildford.

Zika our young leggie is still around, plying his trade in the seniors at the moment. He's had a couple of tougher years (second season syndrome basically) and there are a few adjustments he has to make to come back stronger. He's as hard working as they come so I'm not too worried.

Regarding the current junior bunch, none quite of that standard. There are a couple with serious talent who could play decent standard premier division here (or for a good uni side) if they come on as hoped for, but I can't really see any of them turning pro.

What I'm trying to do is encourage as many of them as possible to go to England to uni to further develop their cricket - a current hobby horse of mine is to try and get a partnership going with an English uni (preferably one of the MCCUs) so our talented cricketers can get on their program, in exchange offering links with French companies with whoom we have links for potential years in industry. Or something. Still very much at the brainwave stage this one. Of the current squad 2 are already at uni in England whilst 3 others have expressed interest.

I should point out a link to the scorecards of the tournament via here:
http://francecricket.com/u19.html

Mike Selig

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Re: Associate and Affiliate cricket discussion thread

Post by guildfordbat on Tue 26 Aug 2014, 10:20 pm

Mike - the English uni partnership sounds well worth exploring. Why limit it at this stage to one uni? Would be brilliant if you could get all the MCCUs on board. Just need (heavy understatement I know) to start conversations with the right people. Good luck!

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Re: Associate and Affiliate cricket discussion thread

Post by Corporalhumblebucket on Thu 28 Aug 2014, 11:17 pm

Well done to you and the team Mike. A very interesting read, as always. I guess that at most levels of cricket the results will depend on varying combinations of natural talent, fitness, technical training, game plan/preparation, adaptability during the match, psychology. Plus a certain amount of luck - what happens to the miscues and edges, are the opponents having an off day, etc

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Re: Associate and Affiliate cricket discussion thread

Post by guildfordbat on Fri 29 Aug 2014, 12:02 am

Corporalhumblebucket wrote:Well done to you and the team Mike. A very interesting read, as always. I guess that at most levels of cricket the results will depend on varying combinations of natural talent, fitness, technical training, game plan/preparation, adaptability during the match, psychology. Plus a certain amount of luck - what happens to the miscues and edges, are the opponents having an off day, etc

Corporal - as regards luck, worth recalling the words of that great golfer Gary Player: "The more I practice, the luckier I get!".

I suspect our Young Rebel and his squad have something in common with golf's Black Knight.

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Re: Associate and Affiliate cricket discussion thread

Post by Mike Selig on Fri 29 Aug 2014, 9:32 am

guildfordbat wrote:Mike - the English uni partnership sounds well worth exploring. Why limit it at this stage to one uni? Would be brilliant if you could get all the MCCUs on board. Just need (heavy understatement I know) to start conversations with the right people. Good luck!

To answer the bit in bold, I think actually there are a couple of reasons:

1) the numbers we are talking about at the moment do not necessitate more than 1 uni coming on board. We are talking about only the best cricketers of that age, those who we feel are capable of going on to play senior representative cricket, so at most 5 or so per year, but more likely 2 or 3 (for now).

2) I believe that the partnership would be more enticing if offered as an exclusive. What we would be looking for from the uni is some help towards tuition fees and/or living costs (going to uni in England is expensive for EU students and they can't get student loans; the French government will offer bursaries only if you study in France; most of our cricketers are not from affluent backgrounds), and a guarantee that these cricketers get on the CoE program at the uni (at least in year 1). What we might be able to offer them in return is strong links with some French companies; from a cricketing perspective we can offer them a tour to France (might be a fun "social" tour), or matches against the French National team (which would be a decent match-up for the 2nd team of these unis at least), which isn't much. I feel the industry links are diluted if we are also offering these to other unis who are on one front at least competitors of the uni in question.

I guess from the player's perspective as well going to uni is quite a daunting experience (particularly if going off to another country, with a language which isn't your mother tongue) and the fact that you knew there would be a couple of mates there with you would probably help. On the other hand I wouldn't want it to become a "french national cricketers society" within the uni - I'm a big believer in integration and challenging yourself in a new environment.

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Re: Associate and Affiliate cricket discussion thread

Post by Mike Selig on Fri 29 Aug 2014, 9:56 am

guildfordbat wrote:
Corporalhumblebucket wrote:Well done to you and the team Mike. A very interesting read, as always. I guess that at most levels of cricket the results will depend on varying combinations of natural talent, fitness, technical training, game plan/preparation, adaptability during the match, psychology. Plus a certain amount of luck - what happens to the miscues and edges, are the opponents having an off day, etc

Corporal - as regards luck, worth recalling the words of that great golfer Gary Player: "The more I practice, the luckier I get!".

I suspect our Young Rebel and his squad have something in common with golf's Black Knight.

Haha.

Thanks corporal.

All those elements do play a part of course. The other thing is team spirit, which does matter particularly when you need to pick yourself up after a defeat like ours on the opening day.

As for "luck"? Well yes and no. We have in past tournaments enjoyed what I would call major slices of luck, mainly through other results going our way, and in one tournament a series of dropped catches by the opposition (note that whilst I don't believe this constitutes bad luck for the opposition, it is lucky for us) during what ended up being a tournament winning knock of 86 not out.

Not so much this time though. We didn't rely on other results getting us through, and I can only recall one dropped catch against us, that a tough diving effort. We benefited in the final from a few missed run-out chances and half-chances, but is that luck, or is it because of our batsmen putting fielders under pressure and their outcricket not being up for it? We took 2 out of 3 of out run-out chances in the final, because we could deal with the pressure (the one we missed needed a direct hit from side on, I'd still want to take it as the fielder had time to set himself).

As for miscues evading fielders, is that luck, or is it poor field setting from the opposition which we've taken advantage of? There are miscues which are inherently lucky, such as the attempted slog which top-edges over backward point but lands short of third-man, or the miscued slog-sweep which lands between mid-wicket running back and deep mid-wicket running in.

However if a batsman tries to clear mid-off who is close, miscues but clears him anyway, is that lucky? Or is it a good spot that mid-off is too close, good confidence to back himself, and good enough execution to clear him? If on the other hand, we set mid-off "hovering" on the edge of the circle, the bowler throws it up and the batsman goes for the shot but mid-off runs back 5 or 10 metres to take the catch is that luck? Or is it skill to set the right field, bowl the right ball and take the catch? Of course you need the batsman to make the mistake as well, but to me that is good cricket, not luck. We got a lot of catches either at mid-off, mid-on or deep mid-wicket in the tournament. I tend to take the view that if something happens often it can't always be luck. We also had the right guys in those positions to take those catches (we only dropped two all tournament (one simple, one tough one at slip), and we took some serious outfield and slip catches; that's not luck, that's because we practice these things hard, a lot, and we know who our best fielders are in which positions and make sure they go there; other teams don't do this as much or as well, that's not IMO luck).

I'm not sure we were more lucky in this tournament than any other team. Our opening bowler James beat the outside edge a lot for example, but again that's not bad luck. We knew that with the line and length (just back of a length, 4th of 5th stump) he was bowling he'd get a lot of play and misses. We decided (between James and the coaching staff) to stick with that rather than bowl fuller and/or straighter which may have resulted in more wickets but also more run-scoring opportunities. We felt that it was more important with our team and our strengths to keep things quiet at the start (particularly as Hashir, the other opener, bowled naturally more aggressive lines) than take wickets, as we knew if the run-rate was low when the spinners came on they had the skills to take advantage of it. It may look unlucky from the outside, but in reality it's a conscious decision we've taken that we'd rather James start off with 1-10 than 2-20 or 3-30 in his first 6 overs.

Sorry, I've droned on and on now... It does sometimes annoy me though when spectators come up to me and talk about luck when actually it's not, it's planning and preparation. Of course you still need the oppo to play ball. My favourite "lucky" claims:
- one of our guys scored 87 (in 18 overs) in a club final when I was watching. A guy from the oppo told me he'd been lucky as "he hit a lot of balls in the air"! Except "in the air" in this instance meant over the infield and sometimes over the boundary. One or two miscues (as described above), but most were nailed. Lucky? Really?
- when we got a run-out from a direct hit (side on) I was informed it was "lucky he hit the stumps as there was no one backing up"! Erm, ok... so nothing to do with skill then... We hit the stumps a lot in the field, mainly because we practice hitting the stumps a lot.

Which I guess brings us back to guildford. It IS strange that the more and the better we practice and prepare, the more we seem to win....

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Re: Associate and Affiliate cricket discussion thread

Post by Mike Selig on Fri 05 Sep 2014, 10:19 am

The inaugural Central Europe Cup involving the Czech Republic, Switzerland, Luxemburg and Poland starts today. @CzechCricket for those on twitter, or http://www.czechcricket.cz/

And a shout out to the regular associate and affiliate cricket podcast hosted by Andrew Nixon and Russell Dugan. This week's episode mentions our recent win Very Happy
http://idlesummers.com/post.php?postid=1868

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Re: Associate and Affiliate cricket discussion thread

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