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Post by dwarfdes on Mon 05 Mar 2012, 8:43 pm

All - Having been a long time lurker and read a fair few posts on this section I realise that this is a touch the bone subject but I'd really like your advice. Bear with me though as I going to try and keep it unknown as to locations etc

So I joined a club last Jan (css is one below par) and was given a 20 handicap. Won my first ever medal (in high category) with a one over par net score. Didn't win (or score as well) again till May in the 4-club comp by which time the hc was 21 (20.5). Got cut on general play by 1 as I got 41 points so back down to 19.5

Wasn't until Oct medal that I started to score better and a two under score saw me fall to 19.2 (although did not win)then in Nov medal a 6 under par score saw me cut again to 18.7 (and a win) in the Dec medal a four under par round saw me win again and before I'd seen my cut I wrote to handicap committee asking them to consider a harsh cut as I considered myself to be likened to a youngster who improved early on.

The cut came in at 17.8 for the medal and then I was cut down to 15.8 under general play. In Jan I didn't shoot my handicap, in Feb I retained my high handicap medal with a two over par round (played poorly off the tee but very well around the greens) but no cut given/needed. Just had the Mar medal and I've won again (so that's 4 of the last 5) with a 4 under total and have been cut 1.2 to be stood at 14.5

With all the effort in the world I can't seem to make it go lower any quicker and it's already made me decide to miss some tournaments (not the medals but the high entry, £40 pp, Xmas one for example) as I feel unfair.

So a few things (fyi I played in all 12 medal rounds in my first year)
With the css nearly always lower than par it seems to make it hard to get cut and when you do it is by such a small margin people feel it's within their right to question your handicap/morals
I know all the numbers don't add up perfectly but they are around those and I'm definitely at 14.5 right now
Even I'm feeling it's still too high but what can I do?

I've been told in the old (old!) days that if you shot four under you lost four shots. I worked out where I'd be right now if this principle was still followed and I'd be off 13 and wouldn't have won the Dec or Feb medals - so maybe that system was better?


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Post by Hibbz on Mon 05 Mar 2012, 8:53 pm

All I can offer are my sympathies and congratulations.

You clearly aren't doing anything immoral and if other folk wish to get so het up about what in the grand scheme of things are fairly unimportant events then it's they that need to question their actions.

Congratulations on your rapid improvement and all I'll suggest is to keep entering and keep getting those cuts.

In my experience nearly all people want as lower handicap as they can achieve and the winning of club comps is just a by product of that goal.

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Post by JAS on Mon 05 Mar 2012, 9:05 pm

If you feel confident that you can go lower have a look on www.golfempire.co.uk and pick a few Opens, look for courses where sss is perhaps a shot or 2 above par. Play well in 2 or 3 of those and you'll get a decent cut.
You'll need your handicap & CDH number to enter and in most cases the score will get recorded centrally and reported back to your home club.

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Post by dwarfdes on Mon 05 Mar 2012, 9:47 pm

Much appreciated hibbz it just seems to take so long!

Some have said that cutting to much is just as bad as might lose interest or that some people try to keep low for entry purposes. Don't think either of those will be me.

Hadn't thought of open comps although might be a bit daunting. Not sure what my cdh is but guess i can get it from the club. Is it a general problem in other clubs that not many comps count towards handicap movement. For example the next three weeks are two matchplay events and a general "fun" game. So no cut before the next medal either

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Post by JAS on Tue 06 Mar 2012, 2:19 pm

My main club has medals or drawn events (effectively medals too) most weekends and in the summer there are midweek medals too. The matchplay draws are made at the start of the season and there's a cut off date for each round, it's up to the competitors to fit their matches in.

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Post by JAS on Tue 06 Mar 2012, 2:25 pm

With regard to your CDH number, that is your unique CONGU ID, if your club is affiliated then you WILL have one, it should probably be on your handicap cert. This is what enables away clubs to automatically record and post your scores back to your home club.
To be honest entering away opens sounds daunting but after the first one it's about as daunting as your own clubs medals, plus you get to meet a lot of fellow golfers in the same boat as yourself.

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Post by George1507 on Tue 06 Mar 2012, 2:31 pm

If you really want to come down, why don't you ask the handicap guy to cut your handicap?

He'll probably think you are nuts, but it might be a q lot quicker than slogging round medals, and open competitions. Open competitions can also move your handicap up - strange course, usually set up to play hard on the day, unfamiliar playing partners and so on.

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Post by McLaren on Tue 06 Mar 2012, 3:11 pm

George

Are you saying I could go to handicap secretary and ask for a +2 handicap and turn pro?
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Post by George1507 on Tue 06 Mar 2012, 3:47 pm

Nope.

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Post by mystiroakey on Tue 06 Mar 2012, 3:52 pm

you can go pro at any handicap if you really want, or only 4 to become a pga pro

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Post by Fader on Tue 06 Mar 2012, 3:56 pm

I would guess that what george is saying is that: you can go to the secretary and ask them under rule 19 general play look at your scoring average and see if a handicap adjustment can be made via decision from the committee. I know this has been done at my club and as long as its warranted they will accomodate however they cannot under this ruling cut someone to a Cat 1 handicap without permission from county!

I maybe wrong but that's my interpretation of it!

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Post by mystiroakey on Tue 06 Mar 2012, 3:59 pm

yep you can get cut under general play- but what is the point in asking or doing it!

you normally get cut under general ply if your a bandit and dont wanna get cut- the other way around isnt on or worth it!

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Post by McLaren on Tue 06 Mar 2012, 4:03 pm

Fader

Bloody hell, you seem to have learned more in a year about the game than I have in over 10.

Shame on me.
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Post by Fader on Tue 06 Mar 2012, 4:05 pm

mystiroakey wrote:
you normally get cut under general ply if your a bandit and dont wanna get cut- the other way around isnt on or worth it!

I agree totally with this. I don't see why the hurry, if you deserve a cut they will do it anyway and if they don't well keep posting good scores in competitons and win a few things on the way down. After all unless you faked a high handicap when you started which I don't think is the case then your handicap is where it should be intil you level out.

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Post by George1507 on Tue 06 Mar 2012, 4:08 pm

If I follow his post, dwarfdes has won 5 times in the last year or so, and won 4 of the last 5 competitions. Even in spite of being cut once already on known play, I'd think there's a good chance that the handicap secretary would cut him again. With all due respect, I don't think someone playing off 15 is likely to be close to the point that county officials would be interested him for a good while yet.

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Post by GWR-Golfer on Tue 06 Mar 2012, 4:24 pm

I wouldn't worry - the new Congu rules will take care of additional cuts (there is no rule 19 any more) - the new software calculates additional cuts based on scores returned over a period.

So if Stableford scores were, over 5 games - 42, 36, 32, 43, 36, 40 - what would happen is that after the 4th score of 43 there would be the normal cut and then there would be an additional cut (which the system calculates) - it would also do it again after the 5th score of 40.

So secretaries cannot now cut under general play - the system will do it.
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Post by mystiroakey on Tue 06 Mar 2012, 4:29 pm

cheers for that GWR i heard it had changed

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Post by Fader on Tue 06 Mar 2012, 4:30 pm

George I wasn't saying he would need county intervention I was merely pointing out as long as someone isn't seeking a Cat 1 cut then the club can do so, just simply addressing Macs +2 comment.

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Post by George1507 on Tue 06 Mar 2012, 4:48 pm

I think Rule 19 has become the Exceptional Score Rule - ESR now?

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Post by GWR-Golfer on Tue 06 Mar 2012, 4:59 pm

George - you are correct

The ESR is now the new rules but the secretary cannot really do anything.... the actual guidance for 2012 is that the secretary should accept the recommendation

for 2013 - the software will automatically do it - so no intervention by any human.
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Post by GWR-Golfer on Tue 06 Mar 2012, 5:00 pm

Sorry I should have added - this does NOT apply to Cat 1 players.
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Post by Fader on Tue 06 Mar 2012, 5:32 pm

Just been looking at or should I say trying to look at the ESR but the PDF from congu will not open. So cannot get full details.

What are they classing as an exceptional score and what are the adjustment stipulations. I know adjustment will be dependant on how exceptional the score is but just wondered for reference what they have to say about it.

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Post by GWR-Golfer on Tue 06 Mar 2012, 5:56 pm

I am unable to cut & paste it into this but in an example I have seen it would mean for the same scores returned an individual would be cut from 16.2 to

present system to 11.2
new system it would be 8.9

That is of course an extreme situation
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Post by dwarfdes on Tue 06 Mar 2012, 5:57 pm

Funnily enough was looking at the ESR earlier today and it seems that the general play cut I got in Dec (when I asked the committee for one) of 1 stroke was correct - based on the two sub 4 under rounds (but less than the 5.5 for 2 strokes)

This was a surprise as I thought they should cut more but it seems that although they did it before ESR is trialling it was the right amount.

I have also worked out that if I shoot 7 under in the next comp (off 15) then I'll invoke the new ESR rule and be cut 2 (as avg of 5.5 within the most recent rounds) and then I'd be 10.4 so almost a single figure!!!

What the EGU don't make clear is if it can be done again and again - ie a cut because of two -4's and then one more even after the cut and does it then follow from the last one or start again?

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Post by GWR-Golfer on Tue 06 Mar 2012, 6:44 pm

Dwarfdes - my suggestion to you is not to get hung up on what the calculations are ....

just go out and enjoy the game - if you get cut then that's good .... All you are doing is putting pressure on yourself ...

and you will fail.... I have seen it so many times over the years and all that happens is you make yourself miserable and it stoops the enjoyment of the game

No-one can predict scores or a run of good play - not even the best players in the world
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Post by dwarfdes on Sun 01 Apr 2012, 9:32 pm

Well it was the monthly medal again and a net 61 off of 15 didn't even place me in the top three. A 57 won it overall and 2nd was 60 for the high handicappers and a guy off 4 shot a gross 1 under for a 61 to take the lows

Worst of all the css dropped a shot to 64 so I was only -3 which means ESR doesn't come into play (ie another -4 to match the -4 last time when the css was 66!). This would have meant an extra cut of 1 shot but instead the cut is just 0.9 so now down to 13.6


The ESR table from the EGU for info

Quicker way to lower handicap New_pi10

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Post by dwarfdes on Sun 06 May 2012, 11:15 pm

Well ESR does exist. The monthly medal again today and a gross 75 for a nett 61 gave me the win.

So from 13.6 i am cut to 11.4 based on 1.2 based on four under at 0.3 each and an esr extra reduction of 1


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Post by hend085 on Mon 07 May 2012, 8:40 am

how easy is your course?!?!?!?!?
57 would have won the medal in my course by 12 shots and there was about 300 players!

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