Greatest Female Player (Open Era)

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Post by JuliusHMarx on Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:46 pm

Let's talk about the ladies for a change!



Last edited by JuliusHMarx on Fri Mar 09, 2012 8:52 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Guest on Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:53 pm

IMO it has to be martina.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:54 pm

Martina for me as well.
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Post by noleisthebest on Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:54 pm

You forgot to mention this lady

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vl-2uVhNLJI

Warning - this is to footage of the stabbing.

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Post by JuliusHMarx on Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:02 pm

NITB, I really liked Seles, but those circumstances (I posted the warning by the way) curtailed her achievements, so I didn't put her on the list.

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Post by laverfan on Fri Mar 09, 2012 8:08 pm

I had also thought about Seles, but rather unfortunate turn of events for her. Crying or Very sad

I cannot decide between Graf and Navaratilova. Sad

Navaratilova has much broader career with doubles and mixed doubles.

Navaratilova it is.

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Post by newballs on Fri Mar 09, 2012 8:14 pm

Monica certainly had the upper hand on Steffi and would have been a stronger contender knocking Steffi's chances somewhat if it hadn't been for that crazy German guy.

Not sure Venus should be on that list BTW. Hasn't Margaret Court got a bettter record?

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Post by JuliusHMarx on Fri Mar 09, 2012 8:26 pm

newballs wrote:Monica certainly had the upper hand on Steffi and would have been a stronger contender knocking Steffi's chances somewhat if it hadn't been for that crazy German guy.

Not sure Venus should be on that list BTW. Hasn't Margaret Court got a bettter record?

You're probably right. I didn't have time to work out how much of Court's fell into Open Era, but she won the Grandl Slam in 1970. I'll add her on if I can work out how.

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Post by newballs on Fri Mar 09, 2012 8:31 pm

JHM actually you need to put Margaret and Monica ahead of Venus.

Margaret with 11 (out of 24 slams in total) and Monica with 9 are both clear of Venus with 7 so far.

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Post by Tenez on Fri Mar 09, 2012 8:38 pm

Has anyone deleted my post?

I mentioned Myskina. She is not on this list but hey she is a great talent.

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Post by JuliusHMarx on Fri Mar 09, 2012 8:48 pm

How do you edit a poll?!

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Post by Guest on Fri Mar 09, 2012 8:50 pm

Edit the OP, scroll to the bottom, add someone else to the poll and click 'add option' then send.
OK

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Post by JuliusHMarx on Fri Mar 09, 2012 8:54 pm

Thanks YI,

I've changed Venus to Margaret Court. No-one had voted for Venus anyway.

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Post by JuliusHMarx on Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:36 pm

Trivia - Apart from Graf and Evert, the others all have more GS doubles titles than singles titles.

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Post by lydian on Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:48 pm

Graf - 377 weeks at #1 (the most by some distance), won y/e #1 eight times(!), 22 slam singles titles (2nd only to Court)...including Grand Slams. Won each of the slams 4 times at least...only woman to win calendar year slam when on 3 different surfaces...reached 13 consequetive slam finals.

Billie Jean King said "Steffi is definitely the greatest women's tennis player of all time." Graf was also named the greatest female tennis player of the 20th century by a panel of experts assembled by the Associated Press. From a singles perspective she's arguably the greatest tennis player of all time, never mind greatest female tennis player of all time.
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Post by JuliusHMarx on Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:53 pm

The great unknown of Graf's career (and Seles of course) is how it would have played out if not for the stabbing. We'll never know, of course, but it's one of the great 'what ifs'. Alas, we can only deal with 'what was' I guess.

I recommend Seles' book (the most recent one, as the earlier one is out of print).

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Post by noleisthebest on Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:53 pm

I say this through very gritted teeth: Navratilova.

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Post by laverfan on Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:13 pm

lydian wrote:Graf - 377 weeks at #1 (the most by some distance), won y/e #1 eight times(!), 22 slam singles titles (2nd only to Court)...including Grand Slams. Won each of the slams 4 times at least...only woman to win calendar year slam when on 3 different surfaces...reached 13 consequetive slam finals.

Billie Jean King said "Steffi is definitely the greatest women's tennis player of all time." Graf was also named the greatest female tennis player of the 20th century by a panel of experts assembled by the Associated Press. From a singles perspective she's arguably the greatest tennis player of all time, never mind greatest female tennis player of all time.

My consolation pick is Graf. Absolutely wonderful player. Cool

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Post by time please on Sat Mar 10, 2012 11:32 am

Gosh what a list!

I have gone for Martina even though Steffi won fractionally more gs titles than Navratilova and Chrissie, just because of her record in doubles and mixed and the scores of titles she picked up in each section as well as the fact that she dominated at W for so long, and her longevity of course.

My absolute favourite female player of all time is Graf, but I did love Chrissie when I first began watching tennis with my father.

You could make a case for nearly all, apart from Serena I feel - not that she has not been a fantastic champion.

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Post by Guest on Sat Mar 10, 2012 4:11 pm

Graf is the greatest singles player.

The Seles domination of Graf is a myth. The H2H is 10-5 Graf. Seles was never ahead in the H2H even prior to the stabbing. She did beat Graf in a few slam finals in the early 90's but this is when Graf was going through a lot of personal stress with her father (tax evasion etc). During that period Graf was losing to Sanchez-Vicario and Sabatini, not just Seles - it was a real low point in Graf's performances on court. I have no doubt that Graf at her best handles Seles at her best.

Graf is the only player on the list with the game to compete with the players of the 80's, 90's and even the players of today as shown by her victories over the Williams sisters.

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Post by hawkeye on Sat Mar 10, 2012 4:43 pm

Who was the "greatest" does it matter? All on that list were/are great.

Billy Jean King probably did more to change professional tennis into the sport we see today than any player male or female. She is a remarkable women. The rivalry of Navratalova and Evert can match that of Federer and Nadal. In an interview just a few weeks ago Evert mentioned that she remains close friends with Navratalova. Saying that they socialise a lot and are very much involved in each others personal lives. I wonder if Federer an Nadal will get on so well in the future.

My own two personal favourites are not on that list. One I only have dim and distant memories of. Evonne Goolagong (Cawley) played a similar no effort mesmerizingly beautiful style a bit like Federer. She also has the most amazing background for a tennis player. The second is Monica Seles. Explosive and exciting perhaps a bit like Nadal.

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Post by newballs on Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:20 am

emancipator it was the very fact that Seles was starting to regularly beat Graf that caused that idiot to stab her in the first place (3 out of 4 slam finals they had played were won by Monica).

Seles was reaching her peak then and may well have gone on to dominate the woman's game. One crazy guy was sadly enough to stop her. The wound itself may have not been so bad (although it wasn't that far from her spine) but the psychological damage inflicted meant she never looked the same player when she came back vowing never to play in Germany again.

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Post by Mad for Chelsea on Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:26 am

Graf every time for me, my first tennis love heart could do absolutely anything with a tennis ball.

seems I'm in the minority though Sad

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Post by Guest on Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:06 am

Newballs that's a fair point but what I think gets forgotten is that Seles had beaten Graf in three out of four slam final but at that point in time Graf was also at her lowest ebb due to external factors. It wasn't just Seles that was beating her. When Graf sorted out her personal life and injury problems she was always the dominant force on the tour. I don't think Seles would have continued to beat her. Either way it's speculation. The reality is that when Graf regained her form and fitness she continued to dominate. Even in 99, after almost two years out with injury Graf came back and promptly reached two slam finals. The tour at that time was very strong with both Williams sisters, Henin, Mauresmo, a rejuvenated capriati, Hingis (then number 1), Davenport, Seles as well as others all competing for slams. I really think that when Graf was fit, focused and on form she was as close to unbeatable as it gets.

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Post by Tenez on Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:13 am

newballs wrote:emancipator it was the very fact that Seles was starting to regularly beat Graf that caused that idiot to stab her in the first place (3 out of 4 slam finals they had played were won by Monica).

Seles was reaching her peak then and may well have gone on to dominate the woman's game. One crazy guy was sadly enough to stop her. The wound itself may have not been so bad (although it wasn't that far from her spine) but the psychological damage inflicted meant she never looked the same player when she came back vowing never to play in Germany again.

Completely agree. Imagine if Nadal got stabbed in 2005. Federer could have 27 slams.

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Post by laverfan on Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:35 am

Wishing a stabbing on anyone is the worst a Tennis fan can do.

Tenez/Amritia3ee ... this conversation adds no value.

Seles may have never been the same, but I keep thinking about Muster and that drunk driver. Muster came back with such determination that that specific incident became a mere footnote.

I wish Seles had come back with more determination. It would have been a wonderful return.

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Post by Guest on Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:39 am

I do not wish to imagine anyone getting stabbed! What a horrible comment.

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Post by amritia3ee on Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:42 am

Disgusting comment by Tenez.
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Post by amritia3ee on Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:45 am

Frankly disgraceful.
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Post by noleisthebest on Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:45 am

Mad for Chelsea wrote:Graf every time for me, my first tennis love heart could do absolutely anything with a tennis ball.

seems I'm in the minority though Sad

I couldn't stand her overdone forehand and that massive nose.

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Post by raiders_of_the_lost_ark on Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:00 am

I'm not fan of a double handed forehand. Seles used them effectively. lots of people liked it, but its just not appealing to my eyes. To me it looks ugly.

I think there is another woman who plays double handed forehand even now. Marion Bartoli ..
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Post by paulcz on Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:53 am

newballs wrote:emancipator it was the very fact that Seles was starting to regularly beat Graf that caused that idiot to stab her in the first place (3 out of 4 slam finals they had played were won by Monica).

Seles was reaching her peak then and may well have gone on to dominate the woman's game. One crazy guy was sadly enough to stop her. The wound itself may have not been so bad (although it wasn't that far from her spine) but the psychological damage inflicted meant she never looked the same player when she came back vowing never to play in Germany again.

Quite truthul.
If this idiot had not done it to Monika, I am sure that Monika would have been very dominant with Steffi then. That was like a clear good matchup for Monika. The similar to that we can see now when Novak with Nadal. One dictates game and second one has nothing to outplay him.

That is a bad stain on Steffi´s great achievements. That accident was the worst thing in tennis what has ever happened Crying or Very sad

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Post by hawkeye on Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:51 pm

That was no "accident" but I agree it must be the worst thing to happen in tennis. It's still hard to believe that such a thing could and did happen. Seles did very well to come back at all as it is the sort of incident that can leave mental scars for life...

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Post by sirfredperry on Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:31 am

Has to be Graf although the "what if" with the Seles stabbing is always going to be a source of much debate.
Agree that we are talking about truly great players in this list - a case could be made out for all of them. Graf's amazing GS record probably tips the balance for her. Winning all four at least four times is an astonishing achievement.
To put it into perspective, no man has won all of them even twice.

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Post by Veejay on Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:40 pm

Graff certainly has the silverware to back it up,how much of that is down to her biggest rival being stabbed is impossible to tell but I think if Serena was completely focused on tennis she could have surpassed them all

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Post by sirfredperry on Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:05 am

Veejay. Serena should be, at least, in the 20s in the number of Slams won. I always thought it was pretty awful the way she could just dip in and out of the game, winning a slam here, a slam there. Showed really there was no real depth to the women's game, or was she just THAT GOOD? She certainly should by now have been regarded as the best player ever.

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Post by Tenez on Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:12 am

To me Serena's game and mind was lacking too much to achieve more. Yes she could have but others too who went off the boil helped her achieve as much.


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Post by Veejay on Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:53 am

Tenez wrote:To me Serena's game and mind was lacking too much to achieve more. Yes she could have but others too who went off the boil helped her achieve as much.


Well she did recently say she doesn't love tennis,maybe she resents her father for missing out on a childhood who knows..
When she's playing at her peak like the 07 AO as a player I think she's better then the lot
She has all the right ingredients,really completive and really strong mentally,built like a brick Poopie but she was never going to reach the kind of numbers Graff did being a part time tennis player

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Post by Tenez on Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:01 am

I am not sure about the she is "better" as much as she certainly was "stronger".

I guess I am one of the few who liked her as a character but not as a player. Quite the opposite of Henin for me.

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Post by Veejay on Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:19 am

Tenez wrote:I am not sure about the she is "better" as much as she certainly was "stronger".

I guess I am one of the few who liked her as a character but not as a player. Quite the opposite of Henin for me.
you're certainly part of a minority group there,I don't think I have ever heard anyone say they like her personality over her tennis
Henin was a brilliant technician and shot maker,but I never warmed up to her and the hand incident made me lose all respect for her
Perhaps better wasnt the right word to use,I think Serena had the potential to be greater and achieve more,when she is in the zone she's unplayable
I think the last few years she's been rather fortunate,but her most impressive achievements i.e the Serena slam etc was at a time when her generation was in their prime

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