Llodra fined for whispering sweet nothings to a Chinese fan

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Should swearing be completely banned in Tennis?

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Post by laverfan on Mon 12 Mar 2012, 10:10 pm

Frenchman Michael Llodra has been fined $2,500 for racially taunting a spectator during his first-round win over Ernests Gulbis at Indian Wells. The ATP confirmed the fine for "verbal abuse."

http://www.tennis.com/articles/templates/news.aspx?articleid=16821&zoneid=25


Last edited by laverfan on Fri 16 Mar 2012, 12:57 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Changed the title based on a poster suggestion)

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Post by Tenez on Mon 12 Mar 2012, 10:18 pm

LOL! what do you mean by "completely" banned?

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Post by time please on Mon 12 Mar 2012, 10:28 pm

http://www.foxsports.com.au/tennis/french-tennis-player-michael-llodra-hit-with-fine-for-racial-slur-aimed-at-chinese-fan-of-opponent/story-e6frf4mu-1226297751675

Not pretty from Llodra at all. Completely unacceptable.

I have ticked box for no to complete ban on swearing however, because the odd muttered oath that the front few rows might catch is perhaps not necessary but it happens - the crowd are pretty close to a tennis match. Full blown ranting and cussing so audible to whole auditorium should be penalised - but letting rip with a bit of choice vocab is a world away from racially abusing someone.

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Post by time please on Mon 12 Mar 2012, 10:35 pm

Now I'm thinking I should have ticked yes - oh to be decisive!! Very Happy

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Post by laverfan on Mon 12 Mar 2012, 10:41 pm

Tenez wrote:LOL! what do you mean by "completely" banned?

On TV one can catch a lot of stuff, that in earlier days was not audible. TP and I are alluding to that.

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Post by Tenez on Mon 12 Mar 2012, 10:58 pm

I have no opinion on the subject.

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Post by Veejay on Mon 12 Mar 2012, 11:26 pm

Well its already banned as an unwritten rule considering how they dish fines out for those who do swear
You can be fined almost the same amount for swearing as you would for cheating,so I guess swearing must be considered as bad as cheating....

Im just curious what sparked this from Llodra,its totally unacceptable to use a persons ethnicity in a derogatory manner but it had to be a reaction to something

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Post by Josiah Maiestas on Tue 13 Mar 2012, 12:18 am

I don't see the point in people being so sensitive to being called "F***ng Chinese". I for one would not object to being called "F**** English or European".

Did not expect Llodra would lose his cool with a female spectator though.
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Post by Tenez on Tue 13 Mar 2012, 8:00 am

Strange from Llodra as so unlike him.

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Post by Veejay on Tue 13 Mar 2012, 8:39 am

Josiah Maiestas wrote:I don't see the point in people being so sensitive to being called "F***ng Chinese". I for one would not object to being called "F**** English or European".

Did not expect Llodra would lose his cool with a female spectator though.

Theres nothing wrong with using a persons ethnicity to describe them,but when you use it a derogatory way its very offensive
Its not often that someone would use European or British to try and degrade or insult someone so when someone does it,it doesn't have much impact as a racist comment because theres no double entendre,but there is when stereotype certain ethic groups
Imagine the outrage and backlash if Llodra has said that to an African American

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Post by Tenez on Tue 13 Mar 2012, 8:59 am

I agree it's not good to say such things but I'd rather it's let out than kept inside actually....if it's felt it has to get out.

The reason it has to be kept inside is that we should know it can hurt and we should make our best to keep in control of what we say in heat moments....but not because there is a rule and a fine attached to it.

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Post by Henman Bill on Tue 13 Mar 2012, 7:44 pm

F*ng Chinese is not strictly speaking racist, but it's close. Probably a small fine about right. Move on.

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Post by noleisthebest on Tue 13 Mar 2012, 7:51 pm

Henman Bill wrote:F*ng Chinese is not strictly speaking racist, but it's close. Probably a small fine about right. Move on.

I never knew Chinese were a race, I thought they were a nation Doh

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Post by kemet on Tue 13 Mar 2012, 11:41 pm

Well since this appears to be true, I will have to separate the artist from the man and just try to watch his tennis apart from his personality.

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Post by Guest on Wed 14 Mar 2012, 12:33 am

He could have been complaining about the food? I heard that many of the tennis players have come down with food poisoning.

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Post by newballs on Wed 14 Mar 2012, 12:43 am

It's not tennis for sure.

Imagine if Man Utd's Rooney though were fined every time he swore at an opponent/the TV cameras or the opposition fans. He'd need very deep pockets.

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Post by bogbrush on Wed 14 Mar 2012, 9:36 am

noleisthebest wrote:
Henman Bill wrote:F*ng Chinese is not strictly speaking racist, but it's close. Probably a small fine about right. Move on.

I never knew Chinese were a race, I thought they were a nation Doh

Indeed; the confusion on this point is rife. I heard people describe Irish jokes as racist, when there's no such race (and before our Irish cousins get funny about that, Ireland has been as frequently repopulated as England - and I'm of Irish decent anyway).

The subject is extremely serious at it's core; racially motivated victimisation has it's roots in such heinous episodes as slavery and genocide, but I truly regret that it is hijacked for such trivial purposes as stupid national pride or self-promotion. It's way more important than that, and the people who abuse the subject set the right cause back at every turn.
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Post by Guest on Wed 14 Mar 2012, 10:09 am

Josiah Maiestas wrote:I don't see the point in people being so sensitive to being called "F***ng Chinese". I for one would not object to being called "F**** English or European".

Did not expect Llodra would lose his cool with a female spectator though.
The problem with this incident is that as soon as a country is mentioned it makes it a racial slur.

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Post by noleisthebest on Wed 14 Mar 2012, 10:16 am

Gav wrote:
Josiah Maiestas wrote:I don't see the point in people being so sensitive to being called "F***ng Chinese". I for one would not object to being called "F**** English or European".

Did not expect Llodra would lose his cool with a female spectator though.
The problem with this incident is that as soon as a country is mentioned it makes it a racial slur.

Yeah, but was Fish fined when he did the same with Tsonga. He wasn't was he? Wonder why.

http://sports.yahoo.com/tennis/blog/busted_racquet/post/fish-insults-tsonga-on-court-during-argument-about-players-box?urn=ten,wp2967

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Post by Guest on Wed 14 Mar 2012, 10:24 am

I think that is slightly different though NITB.

Fish said he didnt speak French and called him a dumbass.
If he called him a French dumbass then it would be similar to this.

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Post by Guest on Wed 14 Mar 2012, 10:35 am

I think the main issue is that Llodra verbally abused a paying customer. Furthermore he may have offended an important and growing market. The growth potential in the asian market for tennis derivatives is enormous.

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Post by noleisthebest on Wed 14 Mar 2012, 10:46 am

The thing that gets on my nerves more than anything in all this is that the "Chinese" (who turned out to be Korean) probably didn't care. The offended one was the wanna-be (wait for it - AMERICAN) "journalist" who tweeted it all out in the public and got his 15 minutes of fame...

In the past I had a lot of dealings with Chinese, Koreans as well as Japanese, and they are a breath of fresh air when it comes to political correctness and all this PC rubbish.
You should hear what they say about each other and "us" Laugh

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Post by bogbrush on Wed 14 Mar 2012, 12:18 pm

Gav wrote:
Josiah Maiestas wrote:I don't see the point in people being so sensitive to being called "F***ng Chinese". I for one would not object to being called "F**** English or European".

Did not expect Llodra would lose his cool with a female spectator though.
The problem with this incident is that as soon as a country is mentioned it makes it a racial slur.

But a country is not a race.

In fact, to allege that it is, is to be racist. I mean, is someone suggesting that to call someone "English" is to say that they are Caucasian? I mean, how very dare you??!!!
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Post by laverfan on Wed 14 Mar 2012, 12:46 pm

Negroid, Mongoloid and Caucasoid are the three I was taught, then came the 'mixing'. The human genome across these three is still the same homo sapiens.

The political sensitivity attached to the slur, especially on the US West coast, is probably related to the checkered history of the region and the building of US railroads, which has it's roots in slavery.

I like NS's 'food' angle the best. thumbsup Laugh

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Post by noleisthebest on Wed 14 Mar 2012, 5:29 pm

More on the topic:

http://blogs.tennis.com/tennisworld/2012/03/by-pete-bodo-either-a-defiant-rebel-holds-sway-at-the-bottom-of-michael-llodras-well-documented-prankster-personality-or-he.html?cid=6a00d83451599e69e2016302d55a6b970d#comment-form

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Post by Tenez on Wed 14 Mar 2012, 6:15 pm

Can't stand Bodo.

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Post by Tenez on Fri 16 Mar 2012, 12:20 am

Love it. La langue de bois we call it.

Q. Have you heard about the comments that Mikhail Llodra made, was fined for, and what are your thoughts on that?
ROGER FEDERER: No, I didn't. I only heard about a fine. I don't know what happened.

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Post by reckoner on Fri 16 Mar 2012, 8:47 am

What a load of crap in some of these comments.

Llodra was completely out of order. He called a spectator a "Chinese whore" and repeatedly made eye contact with her and insulted her.

Those saying things like "oh she probably didn't mind" - NITB for example - actually she DID take offence (who in their right mind wouldn't mind going to tennis match and repeatedly being called a whore by one of the players?!).

The tournament director tried to get Llodra to phone his victim and apologise - but he didn't do it.

When interviewed later, Llodra said “I love Chinese — I can totally make love with a Chinese girl,” he added, before being cut off by the A.T.P. official monitoring the interview. What a complete arse.

As for Roger claiming to not know what happened - it looks like he is choosing not to comment - there is nothing to "love", Tenez.

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Post by noleisthebest on Fri 16 Mar 2012, 9:34 am

reckoner wrote:What a load of crap in some of these comments.

Llodra was completely out of order. He called a spectator a "Chinese whore" and repeatedly made eye contact with her and insulted her.

Those saying things like "oh she probably didn't mind" - NITB for example - actually she DID take offence (who in their right mind wouldn't mind going to tennis match and repeatedly being called a whore by one of the players?!).

The tournament director tried to get Llodra to phone his victim and apologise - but he didn't do it.

When interviewed later, Llodra said “I love Chinese — I can totally make love with a Chinese girl,” he added, before being cut off by the A.T.P. official monitoring the interview. What a complete arse.

As for Roger claiming to not know what happened - it looks like he is choosing not to comment - there is nothing to "love", Tenez.

How do you know all these details? Were you there?

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Post by Guest on Fri 16 Mar 2012, 10:12 am

Llodra’s first comments in Barlow’s direction came in French. They were reported to include “putain chinoise,” which translates roughly as “Chinese whore.”

“He was looking directly at me,” said Barlow, who is Korean-American. “He didn’t yell it particularly loudly. He was turned toward the baseline, toward us, and he looked right at me and said this comment.”

Barlow was contacted by the tournament director, Steve Simon, who informed her of the fine and the formal reprimand, and told her that Llodra would call her from Simon’s office to give her a personal apology. The call was never made, and Simon told Barlow that attempts to persuade Llodra to apologize had been unsuccessful.

“My words were not aimed at China,” Llodra began.

“I love Chinese — I can totally make love with a Chinese girl,” he added, before being cut off by the A.T.P. official monitoring the interview.

http://straightsets.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/03/13/target-of-llodras-racial-slur-says-a-fine-is-not-enough/

The guy is a disgrace.

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Post by noleisthebest on Fri 16 Mar 2012, 10:37 am

Gav wrote:
Llodra’s first comments in Barlow’s direction came in French. They were reported to include “putain chinoise,” which translates roughly as “Chinese whore.”

“He was looking directly at me,” said Barlow, who is Korean-American. “He didn’t yell it particularly loudly. He was turned toward the baseline, toward us, and he looked right at me and said this comment.”

Barlow was contacted by the tournament director, Steve Simon, who informed her of the fine and the formal reprimand, and told her that Llodra would call her from Simon’s office to give her a personal apology. The call was never made, and Simon told Barlow that attempts to persuade Llodra to apologize had been unsuccessful.

“My words were not aimed at China,” Llodra began.

“I love Chinese — I can totally make love with a Chinese girl,” he added, before being cut off by the A.T.P. official monitoring the interview.

http://straightsets.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/03/13/target-of-llodras-racial-slur-says-a-fine-is-not-enough/

The guy is a disgrace.

Thanks for the link.

Llodra was over the top, he was fined, apologised, end of. The "offended fan" is just trying to milk it for all her might. Wouldn't happen in Korea, though, they'd laugh her off. It's only the brain-washed western world that keeps getting offended for nothing, life's too cushy so let's moan about nothing. I have lived in several countries, and witnessed some appalling examples of rudeness, for that's all it is, pity them and get on with your life, not make a spectacle of yourself and pretend to be a suffering "victim". She just wants some cash and a bit of fame, drama queen, no wonder Llodra got rattled.

There are children dying in wars all over the world, sold into porn slavery, innocent, they are offended need attention and apology.

Pathetic media trying to squeeze blood out of stone. Makes you sick.

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Post by Tenez on Fri 16 Mar 2012, 10:55 am

Llodra did not say "putain chinoise". It's not quite French. What he most likley said was putain de Chinois.....or putain de chinoise.

Very different as it translate more correctly as f***ing chinese....but frankly in French is much closer to bloody chinese as putain can be a very common word in french...some, in the south using it after every word almost.

What he said after is really stupid. But we still don;t know what got him to say something like that, in the heat of the moment. Some can be very nasty on the court side.

A fine and let's close the case. I do not believe Llodra to be paricularly racist and that's what matters.

We have had Nastase insulting American spectators many times, Verdasco insulting a whole crowd in Nice, Toni saying the Parisians are idiots and another spitting to a Wimbledon spectator.

THus far we have only one side of the story.

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Post by Josiah Maiestas on Fri 16 Mar 2012, 11:24 am

It's only the brain-washed western world that keeps getting offended for nothing
The voice police. Surely the fact that Llodra refused to apologise by phone suggests the Chinese lady must have said something to get under his skin and hit a nerve. I would love to hear Llodra's version of events than some Gulbis fans explanation.
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Post by bogbrush on Fri 16 Mar 2012, 12:04 pm

He's an idiot for saying that but the offensive bit is "whore" not "Chinese", so people should keep that in mind.

I'm bored with the corruption of a serious matter (racism) into thought policing.
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Post by spuranik on Fri 16 Mar 2012, 3:03 pm

Tenez wrote:We have had Nastase insulting American spectators many times, Verdasco insulting a whole crowd in Nice, Toni saying the Parisians are idiots and another spitting to a Wimbledon spectator.

Don't know about all the incidents but seen this particular one on YouTube...

Somebody sitting court-side was saying some really nasty things about Hanescu and Romania... It really got to Hanescu's nerves and he spat... He was rattled to the point that he committed 3-4 double faults deliberately and lost the match.

Although the players should be able to control their emotions, incessant trouble can get to them in the heat of the moment...

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Post by Tenez on Fri 16 Mar 2012, 3:16 pm

spuranik wrote:
Tenez wrote:We have had Nastase insulting American spectators many times, Verdasco insulting a whole crowd in Nice, Toni saying the Parisians are idiots and another spitting to a Wimbledon spectator.

Don't know about all the incidents but seen this particular one on YouTube...

Somebody sitting court-side was saying some really nasty things about Hanescu and Romania... It really got to Hanescu's nerves and he spat... He was rattled to the point that he committed 3-4 double faults deliberately and lost the match.

Although the players should be able to control their emotions, incessant trouble can get to them in the heat of the moment...

Yes that's what I was referring about and I think if you are hurt you are allowed to hurt back. Whatever it takes I would say. I could justify a kick a la Cantona! Wink

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Post by noleisthebest on Fri 16 Mar 2012, 4:02 pm

Tenez wrote:
spuranik wrote:
Tenez wrote:We have had Nastase insulting American spectators many times, Verdasco insulting a whole crowd in Nice, Toni saying the Parisians are idiots and another spitting to a Wimbledon spectator.

Don't know about all the incidents but seen this particular one on YouTube...

Somebody sitting court-side was saying some really nasty things about Hanescu and Romania... It really got to Hanescu's nerves and he spat... He was rattled to the point that he committed 3-4 double faults deliberately and lost the match.

Although the players should be able to control their emotions, incessant trouble can get to them in the heat of the moment...

Yes that's what I was referring about and I think if you are hurt you are allowed to hurt back. Whatever it takes I would say. I could justify a kick a la Cantona! Wink

My favourite ever:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF4iWIE77Ts

the scumbag got away as usual....the dirtiest ever WC win.

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Post by Guest on Fri 16 Mar 2012, 4:04 pm

http://sketch.odopod.com/sketches/544056

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Post by noleisthebest on Fri 16 Mar 2012, 4:40 pm

Gav wrote:http://sketch.odopod.com/sketches/544056

thumbsup

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Post by socal1976 on Fri 16 Mar 2012, 7:43 pm

LLodra should be fined and probably deal with a suspension for a month or so. The game doesn't need the bad publicity, as a person who has experienced racism in his life, and even been abused similarly with someone on this very website, I frankly don't have any tolerance for it. When you reference someone's race or nationality in a derogatory manner it is a racial slur. For example, you can use the word jew in context it isn't a slur at all, but the context of the way you say "jew" can be a slur. Funny I had the same experience on this site where my nationality was used as a slur by a certain unnamed poster and later the thread was deleted.

I don't really have much tolerance for it, if the lady is abusive there are ways as a player to address the situation without ridiculing her race and then talking about how great you are because you would make sex with "chinese" is even more ridiculous.

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