PREMIER LEAGUE GREAT

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Post by d260005p on Tue 13 Mar 2012, 3:55 pm

Who would be at the top of your list as the greatest ever player to have graced our game in the EPL?

With loads of star studded entries, mine would simply have to be Thierry Henry.

This is based on his Speed, amazing skill, ability, finishing, flare and arrogance.

Has given great memories through the years, and has obviously still got some class left in him as he eneded up scoring more than Torres/Carroll in the same time frame from Jan!

Great memories inlcude:

1. Goal vs MAN UTD - Highbury - Back to G.NEVILLE, flick up, swivel volley, Top corner.

2. Goal vs CHARLTON - Highbury - Back to goal, back heels into bottom corner.

3. Goal vs Spurs - Highbury - Takes on about 6 players and smashes in bottom corner.


The guy was class and always will be.


Name your top player with 3 memorable moments..............i look forward to seeing them.

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Post by Stella on Tue 13 Mar 2012, 4:08 pm

Henry would be mine also. Scored loads, created loads and was great to watch.

A worthy mention to, Ronaldo, Bergkamp, Shearer, Scholes, Gerrard, Schmeichel, Cantona and Zola.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Tue 13 Mar 2012, 5:11 pm

I'm a United fan but still marvel to this day at the brilliance of that swivel and volley goal......

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Post by two_tone on Tue 13 Mar 2012, 5:52 pm

Mine would have to be Giggs. The most decorated player in the modern English game.


Last edited by two_tone on Tue 13 Mar 2012, 5:52 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Spelling English wrong ironically)

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Post by Hero on Tue 13 Mar 2012, 6:33 pm

King Eric for me.

I was lucky enough to have had a season ticket for Old Trafford when Eric joined from Leeds and the effect that he had was simply phenomenal. Every time the ball went near him the hairs on your arm would stand on end, you just knew something would happen.
Seen a huge amount of fantastic players over the years, Giggs, Scholes. Keane, Ronaldo, Rooney and Beckham etc but none weaves their spell quite like Cantona.

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Post by Imperial Ghosty on Tue 13 Mar 2012, 6:42 pm

May be biased but has to be Cantona.

5 league title wins in only 6 seasons in England shows how important he was to United, the only year he didn't win the league he was banned because of the Kung Fu kick.

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Post by azania on Tue 13 Mar 2012, 6:58 pm

Henry for me. But much as I hate to say it, the greatest EPL player has to be Shearer. His goal scoring recond is phenomenal. Lord only knows how many more he would have scored had to played for Utd.

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Post by Imperial Ghosty on Tue 13 Mar 2012, 7:00 pm

With Sheringham alongside him think you'd be looking at 40+ a season.

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Post by Guest on Tue 13 Mar 2012, 7:29 pm

Henry or shearer IMO.

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Post by Roberto Mankini on Tue 13 Mar 2012, 7:37 pm

Dennis Bergkamp. Played with such class and ease. Was a one of gem and the likes we will never see again.

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Post by All Time Great on Tue 13 Mar 2012, 7:57 pm

Has to be Eric Cantona from a personal viewpoint, simply brought the Premiership to life.

... Incidently, based on statistics Christiano Ronaldo was the most successful and talented player to of ever graced the EPL. He was also the only player to win the Fifa player of the year award from the EPal.

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Post by Hero on Tue 13 Mar 2012, 8:55 pm

How was he the most successful?

There is no questioning his talent at all and he won several awards whilst in the premier league but his medal tally for actual competitions is dwarfed by Giggs.

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Post by Stella on Tue 13 Mar 2012, 8:57 pm

Personal awards?
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Post by Ent on Tue 13 Mar 2012, 11:41 pm

Based on talent I'd say Ronaldo.

For achievement, longevity and just being a legend it has to be Giggs though.

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Post by All Time Great on Tue 13 Mar 2012, 11:44 pm

Hero wrote:How was he the most successful?

There is no questioning his talent at all and he won several awards whilst in the premier league but his medal tally for actual competitions is dwarfed by Giggs.

I don't think comparing medal collections is a real comparative given Giggs has been in the EPL for 20 seasons and Ronaldo was only in the league for 6.

Say we ignore Ronaldo's first season (since he was a rookie). Ronaldo scored 80 goals in 167 games, also won the Fifa World Player of the year award, Ballon D'or, European Cup final with Portugal, 1x Champions League (in which he scored), a EPL golden boot with the highest goals to game ratio of all time and 3 consecutive EPL titles. He was also very much the man at United during this period, despite only being 20-24 years old.

Now I'm not going to slate Giggs, because he is a superb player, but he can't match Ronaldo's record above in those 6 seasons (where Giggs would have been 29 to 34 years old, still considered to be peak years for a footballer).

Love him or hate him, Ronaldo is the greatest player player to of ever graced the Premier League. Stats and achievements don't lie.

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Post by 88Chris05 on Wed 14 Mar 2012, 12:04 am

Henry, and by a considerable distance, I'd wager.

Le Tissier, Bergkamp, Ronaldo, Scholes, Shearer, Stam, Lampard, Keane etc all lavishly gifted and superb in their own right, but none of them can touch Henry for consistency. Cantona, truth be told, flattered to deceive in certain seasons (1996/1997 a great example, and while he scored some valuable goals the season beforehand, he'd probably regressed as a player already at that stage). Cantona still a great player, but in general the Manchester United teams he was a part of were better than the ones Henry played in at Arsenal.

Guys such as Terry in 04/05 or Gerrard in 05/06 winning the PFA award was always a bit of a red herring, for me; let's be frank, they won those awards because, in those particular seasons, they went beyond anything they'd done before, but Henry literally had nowhere else to go by 2004, and it would have been nigh on impossible for him to improve any further. If we look at who influenced most games, left us all breathless and was consistent almost to a fault throughout, say, 2001 up until 2006, we can surely only conclude that Henry, in fact, was the real player of the year in each season.
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Post by Guest on Wed 14 Mar 2012, 12:50 am

I think Eric Cantona made the Premier League great. He started the Manchester Utd bandwagon rolling. Man Utd hadn't won the top division title for 26 years, yet they won it in the first full season he had with Man Utd, the season the Premier League was founded - 1992-1993. With him Man Utd began their domination of the Premier League and English football.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Wed 14 Mar 2012, 9:30 am

All Time Great wrote:
Hero wrote:How was he the most successful?

There is no questioning his talent at all and he won several awards whilst in the premier league but his medal tally for actual competitions is dwarfed by Giggs.

I don't think comparing medal collections is a real comparative given Giggs has been in the EPL for 20 seasons and Ronaldo was only in the league for 6.

Say we ignore Ronaldo's first season (since he was a rookie). Ronaldo scored 80 goals in 167 games, also won the Fifa World Player of the year award, Ballon D'or, European Cup final with Portugal, 1x Champions League (in which he scored), a EPL golden boot with the highest goals to game ratio of all time and 3 consecutive EPL titles. He was also very much the man at United during this period, despite only being 20-24 years old.

Now I'm not going to slate Giggs, because he is a superb player, but he can't match Ronaldo's record above in those 6 seasons (where Giggs would have been 29 to 34 years old, still considered to be peak years for a footballer).

Love him or hate him, Ronaldo is the greatest player player to of ever graced the Premier League. Stats and achievements don't lie.

Also he was the first player in decades (since Andy Gray) to win both the young and 'old'(?) Player of the Year awards in the same season. A remarkable achievement.

I think he's the most talented, and best footballer to ever grace the EPL. The fact he's now up there with Messi in an untouchable stratosphere of greatness is more than any EPL footballer has ever achieved.

The OP phrases the question as Greatest however, which is where achievements like longevity (Giggs) and impact (Henry, Cantona) come into play and is an entirely different question. In which case it's a top up between those three for me.

In short, the best/greatest player from the English Premier League is either a Welshman, a Portuguese or one of two Frenchmen..... Rolling Eyes

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Post by sodhat on Wed 14 Mar 2012, 9:41 am

Matt Le Tissier; I remember goals he scored against Newcastle where he took two men out and slotted home, a goal against Blackburn from damn near halfway after beating a man, and rounding everything off with the last goal at the Dell.

Zola deserves a mention, as does Dennis Bergkamp. Probably have those as my preferred three.

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Post by dancingweeman on Wed 14 Mar 2012, 10:23 am

I'd go with Zola.

A class player and a class person too (from what i've read).

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Post by President Trump on Wed 14 Mar 2012, 10:26 am

David Ginola if nothing else it has to be the hair...simply magnificent

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Post by Stella on Wed 14 Mar 2012, 10:28 am

Zola comes across as a bit of a creep to me. I always remember him bringing out cups of Coffee to some reporters that were camped outside his house. maybe he was just being nice.

Top player though. I do personally rate Bergkamp ahead of him but there's not much in it.
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Post by Beer on Wed 14 Mar 2012, 11:10 am

Stam?!

Laugh

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Post by 88Chris05 on Wed 14 Mar 2012, 12:21 pm

King Beer wrote:Stam?!

Laugh

Not sure why you're laughing - Stam was absolutely magnificent. Without doubt the top centre half in the Premiership during his three years there. A tower of strength, great reader of the game too. All round superb defender.

I think, due to his (relatively) short time in England, his sheer stupidity which forced Ferguson to sell him and his poor debut where Anelka ran rings around him, people tend to forget just how good Stam was. Terribly underrated. At his best, I'd certainly rate him above Ferdinand and Vidic, for example.
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Post by Beer on Wed 14 Mar 2012, 12:24 pm

He is nowehere near a premier league great though, Chris.

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Post by 88Chris05 on Wed 14 Mar 2012, 12:35 pm

If Ronaldo can be dubbed THE Premier League great by some on the basis of three great seasons (let's be frank, between 2003 and 2006 he was dreadfully inconsistent and, though they'd deny it now, there were plenty calling him a hype product and saying he was all style, no substance), then I don't see why Stam can't be in the great category on that same basis.

I don't think it's a coincidence, either, that after Stam was abruptly sold at the beginning of the 2001 / 2002 season, United's defence went pretty much to pot. I maintain that Stam, to this day, is badly underrated and holds his own when compared to any Premier League centre back before or since.
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Post by Stella on Wed 14 Mar 2012, 12:43 pm

Ronaldo dominated two seasons though and to be fair was pretty good in the 2005/06 season.

Stam was a top CB though. A PL great? Not sure. Three good seasons says maybe not.
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Post by two_tone on Wed 14 Mar 2012, 12:54 pm

I can't see an argument past Giggs, longeivity, consistency, appearances, medals won etc. you could keep going and I find it impossible to believe another player will match some of the records he has set.

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Post by BarneyRubble on Wed 14 Mar 2012, 3:38 pm

Tough one, I have changed my mind several times already. Ronaldo to my mind is the most talented player we have ever had in the EPL but it was a relatively short rule.
Conversely Giggs (with Scholes not far behind) gets the nod for quality over a long period of time.
That said I would also go for Henry though as a combination of top quality over a sustained period and impact for Arsenal. Also seems a decent bloke.

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Post by Crimey on Wed 14 Mar 2012, 4:59 pm

In short, the best/greatest player from the English Premier League is either a Welshman, a Portuguese or one of two Frenchmen..... Rolling Eyes

To be fair the Spanish League's best player ever could be one of three Argentinians with Messi or Maradona, or Di Stefano, a Brazillian, Fat Ronaldo, a Portugese, C Ronaldo.

There aren't actually that many Spanish players that I can confidently say are better than those guys.

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Post by Imperial Ghosty on Wed 14 Mar 2012, 7:07 pm

Ronaldo statistically was very very good but Ferdinand and Rooney were the two players we looked to for a big time performance in big games. Rios performances in the semi final against Barcelona were absolutely superb and outdid any other performance by a United player during those 3 seasons, Tevez and Park got the credit but Rio controlled all 180 minutes expertly.

I'm probably alone in thinking it but Rooney is and always has been the key player for United above even Ronaldo, would rate Ron as the better player but his influence on the team was less, he got the credit and goals from Rooneys brilliance.

Having said all that the best player i've seen in the league is Paul Scholes, he was aside from his tackling the perfect midfielder, he was at one stage the most feared midfielder on the planet and it is a pity that the english have never appreciated him. Zidane, Davids, Lippi amongst various other players and managers on the continent couldn't speak highly enough of him. During what I call the magical period between 96-03 he was second only to Zidane, regarded as one of if not the greatest midfielder of all time which is mean feat.

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Post by Imperial Ghosty on Wed 14 Mar 2012, 7:09 pm

Crimey wrote:
In short, the best/greatest player from the English Premier League is either a Welshman, a Portuguese or one of two Frenchmen..... Rolling Eyes

To be fair the Spanish League's best player ever could be one of three Argentinians with Messi or Maradona, or Di Stefano, a Brazillian, Fat Ronaldo, a Portugese, C Ronaldo.

There aren't actually that many Spanish players that I can confidently say are better than those guys.

Iniesta for me would be above all them except Maradona and Di Stefano, he makes Barcelona tick.

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Post by All Time Great on Wed 14 Mar 2012, 7:52 pm

I don't even know why we are debating this? In terms of talent alone Ronaldo is the greatest and by some margin- let's not forget he is now the undisputed second best player on the planet. People state he only had 3 good seasons in the EPL, but he was only 18 when he joined United from a much inferior European League (albeit Porto were half decent with Mourihnio).

With regards to Jaap Stam, not a premiership great, but he most Certaintly did steady United's ship when he joined and hos impact is understated by many.

With regards to Ryan Giggs, I've always felt Paul Scholes was a more important player in United's side.

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Post by Ent on Wed 14 Mar 2012, 7:55 pm

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Ronaldo statistically was very very good but Ferdinand and Rooney were the two players we looked to for a big time performance in big games. Rios performances in the semi final against Barcelona were absolutely superb and outdid any other performance by a United player during those 3 seasons, Tevez and Park got the credit but Rio controlled all 180 minutes expertly.

I'm probably alone in thinking it but Rooney is and always has been the key player for United above even Ronaldo, would rate Ron as the better player but his influence on the team was less, he got the credit and goals from Rooneys brilliance.

Having said all that the best player i've seen in the league is Paul Scholes, he was aside from his tackling the perfect midfielder, he was at one stage the most feared midfielder on the planet and it is a pity that the english have never appreciated him. Zidane, Davids, Lippi amongst various other players and managers on the continent couldn't speak highly enough of him. During what I call the magical period between 96-03 he was second only to Zidane, regarded as one of if not the greatest midfielder of all time which is mean feat.

You are alone because you are wrong e.g. Ronaldo assisted Rooney 4 times in 07/08 where Rooney only assisted Ronaldo twice in a 42 goal season (data from painstakingy watching videos of that season).

They were a lethal combo and played some glorious football together - I'm a big Rooney fan but he was never our key man at that time.

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Post by Imperial Ghosty on Wed 14 Mar 2012, 8:01 pm

It's an opinion, there are lies damm lies and then there are statistics, Scholes has been a prolific assister but his creativity and passing were second to none, Ronaldo was a fabulous player but he wasn't as important as Ferdinand or Rooney.

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Post by Imperial Ghosty on Wed 14 Mar 2012, 8:02 pm

All Time Great wrote:I don't even know why we are debating this? In terms of talent alone Ronaldo is the greatest and by some margin- let's not forget he is now the undisputed second best player on the planet. People state he only had 3 good seasons in the EPL, but he was only 18 when he joined United from a much inferior European League (albeit Porto were half decent with Mourihnio).

With regards to Jaap Stam, not a premiership great, but he most Certaintly did steady United's ship when he joined and hos impact is understated by many.

With regards to Ryan Giggs, I've always felt Paul Scholes was a more important player in United's side.

Ronaldo is very very good but he's not streets ahead of the likes of Giggs, Scholes, Henry, Bergkamp or Cantona, you seem to be basing it solely on his scoring record.

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Post by Ent on Wed 14 Mar 2012, 8:11 pm

Imperial Ghosty wrote:It's an opinion, there are lies damm lies and then there are statistics, Scholes has been a prolific assister but his creativity and passing were second to none, Ronaldo was a fabulous player but he wasn't as important as Ferdinand or Rooney.

Statistics are good with proper interpretation, are you telling me golden boot winner, PL top scorer, CL top scorer, scored in CL last 16, 1/4 final, final in 08 and in last 16, 1/4 final, 2 in semi final in 09, WPOTY 08, Balon D'or 08 was the second most important player in the side despite assisting the other player more often than he received assists from said player?

Players in the centre of the pitch tend to be more important and have more influence but come on Rooney wasn't even on the pitch at the end of the 08 final - Ronaldo was the man.

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Post by All Time Great on Wed 14 Mar 2012, 8:26 pm

Ent wrote:
Imperial Ghosty wrote:It's an opinion, there are lies damm lies and then there are statistics, Scholes has been a prolific assister but his creativity and passing were second to none, Ronaldo was a fabulous player but he wasn't as important as Ferdinand or Rooney.

Statistics are good with proper interpretation, are you telling me golden boot winner, PL top scorer, CL top scorer, scored in CL last 16, 1/4 final, final in 08 and in last 16, 1/4 final, 2 in semi final in 09, WPOTY 08, Balon D'or 08 was the second most important player in the side despite assisting the other player more often than he received assists from said player?

Players in the centre of the pitch tend to be more important and have more influence but come on Rooney wasn't even on the pitch at the end of the 08 final - Ronaldo was the man.

Agreed. Ronaldo > Rooney. Fergie also relegated Rooney to left wing as Ronaldo was that good. But crikey what a trio Tevez, Ronaldo and Rooney were. That 08 side was the greatest EPL team of all time.

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Post by All Time Great on Wed 14 Mar 2012, 8:32 pm

Imperial Ghosty wrote:
All Time Great wrote:I don't even know why we are debating this? In terms of talent alone Ronaldo is the greatest and by some margin- let's not forget he is now the undisputed second best player on the planet. People state he only had 3 good seasons in the EPL, but he was only 18 when he joined United from a much inferior European League (albeit Porto were half decent with Mourihnio).

With regards to Jaap Stam, not a premiership great, but he most Certaintly did steady United's ship when he joined and hos impact is understated by many.

With regards to Ryan Giggs, I've always felt Paul Scholes was a more important player in United's side.

Ronaldo is very very good but he's not streets ahead of the likes of Giggs, Scholes, Henry, Bergkamp or Cantona, you seem to be basing it solely on his scoring record.

I've made no mention of goals in that post. He is more talented and has won more lucrative awards than the players mentioned.

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Post by Imperial Ghosty on Wed 14 Mar 2012, 8:32 pm

Statistics don't mean a thing, I try to base my opinions on what I see instead of what i'm told, Rooney was as far as i'm concerned along with Ferdinand more important to the teams success than Ronaldo. Rooney played on the left wing not because he was relegated there but because it tactically made more sense to have his work rate and creativity there.

Would also question you assist statistics when Rooney in the league had 13 assists overall third only to Fabregas and Young while Ronaldo had 7. Rooney was the creative force behind the team while Ronaldo was the finisher.

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Post by Imperial Ghosty on Wed 14 Mar 2012, 8:37 pm

All Time Great wrote:
Imperial Ghosty wrote:
All Time Great wrote:I don't even know why we are debating this? In terms of talent alone Ronaldo is the greatest and by some margin- let's not forget he is now the undisputed second best player on the planet. People state he only had 3 good seasons in the EPL, but he was only 18 when he joined United from a much inferior European League (albeit Porto were half decent with Mourihnio).

With regards to Jaap Stam, not a premiership great, but he most Certaintly did steady United's ship when he joined and hos impact is understated by many.

With regards to Ryan Giggs, I've always felt Paul Scholes was a more important player in United's side.

Ronaldo is very very good but he's not streets ahead of the likes of Giggs, Scholes, Henry, Bergkamp or Cantona, you seem to be basing it solely on his scoring record.

I've made no mention of goals in that post. He is more talented and has won more lucrative awards than the players mentioned.

Henry was shamefully overlooked for world player of the year three seasons in a row, he was without doubt the best player on the planet for at least 3 seasons but predictably the flashier but less able Ronaldinho got the accolades.

I personally don't think he is more talented, Beckham was the highest rated midfielder for United for years but the majority of fans would rate Scholes, Giggs and Keane above him, glamourous players get rated higher.

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Post by All Time Great on Wed 14 Mar 2012, 8:44 pm

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Statistics don't mean a thing, I try to base my opinions on what I see instead of what i'm told, Rooney was as far as i'm concerned along with Ferdinand more important to the teams success than Ronaldo. Rooney played on the left wing not because he was relegated there but because it tactically made more sense to have his work rate and creativity there.

Would also question you assist statistics when Rooney in the league had 13 assists overall third only to Fabregas and Young while Ronaldo had 7. Rooney was the creative force behind the team while Ronaldo was the finisher.

It's obvious your opinion is unlikely to change, but I strongly suggest you revisit Christiano Ronaldo's contribution for man united alongside Wayne Rooney. Don't get me wrong , Wazza is one of the best players this country has produced but it's more than obvious to most that Ronaldo was the man at his time with United.

There was many goals with Ronaldo simply didn't need an assist, he was able to blow past the opposition. Even in his short time in the premiership he is at number 10 in the all time EPL assist table.

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Post by Imperial Ghosty on Wed 14 Mar 2012, 8:48 pm

No need for me to revisit it I remember the past few seasons very vividly.

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Post by Ent on Wed 14 Mar 2012, 10:35 pm

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Statistics don't mean a thing, I try to base my opinions on what I see instead of what i'm told, Rooney was as far as i'm concerned along with Ferdinand more important to the teams success than Ronaldo. Rooney played on the left wing not because he was relegated there but because it tactically made more sense to have his work rate and creativity there.

Would also question you assist statistics when Rooney in the league had 13 assists overall third only to Fabregas and Young while Ronaldo had 7. Rooney was the creative force behind the team while Ronaldo was the finisher.

Well i'm not going to be able to change your mind as you are unwilling to have it changed. We won 3 EPLs, the CL and got to another final, we had world class talent all over the pitch with lots of big game players. You of course will not get anywhere without good defenders but the suggestion they are more important than the player consistently scoring crucial goals in the knock out stages of the CL is ludicrous.

As for assists from 06/07 to 08/09 Ronaldo had 27 and Rooney had 31 (PL), a disproportionate amount of Ronaldo's assists coming in 06/07 when we had a mutitude of good finishers available at various times. The assist statistic is also somewhat flawed as e.g. if Rooney is fouled and Ronaldo scores a penalty, Rooney gets an assist, but if Ronaldo is fouled and scores the penalty he doesn't - same for freekicks.

The point on the assists is that Rooney is wrongly and embarassingly given credit for Ronaldo's performances when Ronaldo provided Rooney with more assists for goals than vice versa in the 07/08 season (all competitions).

Lets look at it this way, the season after Ronaldo left Rooney (now the main man) scored 31 goals, with 5 assists and United came 2nd in the EPL and 1/4 finals CL. Why did Nani or Valencia not bang the goals in like Ronaldo did if the puppet master in Rooney was still there. Why has Ronaldo's scoring rate and performance level increased without Rooney?

Rooney is a great player, but he did not make Ronaldo and it is embarassing to say so.

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Post by Imperial Ghosty on Wed 14 Mar 2012, 10:42 pm

Stats stats stats I really don't care for them and I have no wish to have my opinion changed as it is MY OPINION much like yours is yours.

You may think my views are ludicrous and embarassing but I equally think yours are. What Ronaldo does in La Liga is of no consequence, it is a far easier league to score in than the premiership and you comparing Valencia to Ronaldo really is laughable, they are two completely different players, one is an authentic wide midfielder while the other is a wing forward, may as well compare Makelele to Zidane for all the difference it makes.

We won the champions league not because of Ronaldo but because of Ferdinand and the defensive unit as a whole also helped having a fit Hargreaves to anchor when we needed him to not to mention a fully fit Fletcher. We could have won the champions league without Ronaldo as he did in all honesty contribute very little to the semi final and final.

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Post by Ent on Wed 14 Mar 2012, 10:56 pm

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Stats stats stats I really don't care for them and I have no wish to have my opinion changed as it is MY OPINION much like yours is yours.

You may think my views are ludicrous and embarassing but I equally think yours are. What Ronaldo does in La Liga is of no consequence, it is a far easier league to score in than the premiership and you comparing Valencia to Ronaldo really is laughable, they are two completely different players, one is an authentic wide midfielder while the other is a wing forward, may as well compare Makelele to Zidane for all the difference it makes.

We won the champions league not because of Ronaldo but because of Ferdinand and the defensive unit as a whole also helped having a fit Hargreaves to anchor when we needed him to not to mention a fully fit Fletcher. We could have won the champions league without Ronaldo as he did in all honesty contribute very little to the semi final and final.

I'm going to leave it now as you can't be reasoned with. Stats can be used in context to develop discussions - or as you do use them when it suits you and ignore them when they don't.

Ronaldo has maintained his scoring record in the CL, it has improved in league football.

Goals per game la liga 2.73, EPL 2.8.

The logic stands, if all Ronaldo did was profiteer from Rooney's hard work and creativity, why couldn't someone else e.g. Nani (who I also mentioned), why has Ronaldo continued to perform without Rooney? Fletcher did not start any of the semi final or final games, Hargreaves played on the right of midfield in the final...

Ronaldo scored in the final, what did Rooney do?... 2 in the semi-final the next year.

I have already stated we won the CL because we had an outstanding team with big game players all over the pitch, we are discussing the best player/main man in that team in the context of PL greats (i.e. the topic), there is no real debate that it is Ronaldo.

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Post by Imperial Ghosty on Wed 14 Mar 2012, 11:10 pm

I can't be reasoned with because my opinion differs from yours?

You seem unable to accept that anyone may rightfully not consider Ronaldo the best player in premier league history, you seem intent on shoving statistics down everyones throat to try and prove a point that is entirely opinion based.

I rate Rooney higher than Ronaldo, get over it.

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Post by Ent on Wed 14 Mar 2012, 11:26 pm

Imperial Ghosty wrote:I can't be reasoned with because my opinion differs from yours?

You seem unable to accept that anyone may rightfully not consider Ronaldo the best player in premier league history, you seem intent on shoving statistics down everyones throat to try and prove a point that is entirely opinion based.

I rate Rooney higher than Ronaldo, get over it.

I was going to leave it but you got personal, I've no bother with you rating Rooney higher - you cannot justify it though.

You also stated:

he got the credit and goals from Rooneys brilliance.

which is wrong and was my major issue - provide you with some info to discuss it and I'm accused of shoving it down your throat.

Got no problem with differing opinions, wouldn't mind them being justified to aide discussion - you can't justify yours, we went from Rooney being the key man, to the defense being the key thing, to hargreaves being fit the biggest reason and finally to a player who wasn't first choice being more important than Ronaldo. Draw your own conslusions as to why I think your contributions to this topic have been laughable.

I'm out.

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Post by Imperial Ghosty on Wed 14 Mar 2012, 11:31 pm

Where on earth did I say Fletcher and Hargreaves were more important than Ronaldo, was merely pointing out that at stages having two proper ball winning midfielder helped a fair bit.

Your opinion seems to be that it's Ronaldo full stop with no other answer being acceptable, I at no point said he wasn't a fabulous player but Rooney was the heartbeat of the team, he made everything click, he didn't play and we looked half the team. His passing, his creativity, his goalscoring, his work rate, his versatility are among the reasons I rated him higher than Ronaldo. You accuse me of having ridiculous opinions simply because they differ from your cast iron no alternative opinion.

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Post by All Time Great on Thu 15 Mar 2012, 12:28 am

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Where on earth did I say Fletcher and Hargreaves were more important than Ronaldo, was merely pointing out that at stages having two proper ball winning midfielder helped a fair bit.

Your opinion seems to be that it's Ronaldo full stop with no other answer being acceptable, I at no point said he wasn't a fabulous player but Rooney was the heartbeat of the team, he made everything click, he didn't play and we looked half the team. His passing, his creativity, his goalscoring, his work rate, his versatility are among the reasons I rated him higher than Ronaldo. You accuse me of having ridiculous opinions simply because they differ from your cast iron no alternative opinion.

Honestly Ghosty, you've been totally owned on this debate by members who appear to have a greater degree of knowledge on this subject.

It's without question an unbiased neutral individual would agree Ronaldo > Rooney whilst they were playing at United together. Not only statistics, but accolades achieved by Ronaldo were far greater than Wayne Rooney. I appreciate everyone has an opinion but yours doesn't hold enough weight to be taken seriously.

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