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Post by Alessandro Ciambella on Wed 04 Apr 2012, 1:36 pm

Bonjourno!

I hear so much from forums here in the UK about the Premier League is the best in the world. The teams are the best in the world and the players are the best in the world. Sure, your league is the most broadcasted in the world. How else do your clubs pay megastar wages to its employees and players?

I am going to sensibly deconstruct 3 areas of the EPL. By doing this I can prove that the EPL is infact not the best league in the world and that it is a distant 2nd to the Spanish Armada sailling in La Liga. (I would say in fact that Itallian football has surpassed the EPL but that is for another debate). These areas are: -

1) The Best Players
2) The Best Teams
3) The Most Competitive League

First, lets dispell the myth about the players. La Liga has great names like Ronaldo, Xavi, Alba and Messi whilst the Premier League has... well... who is a Premier League superstar? Seriously, there are good players but no great players anymore in the EPL. Lampard, Gerrard, Torres, Rooney? All are/were great players but not anymore.

Best teams in the world? Hmmm, not anymore! Barcelona and Real Madrid are now the greatest teams in the world without a doubt. The best team in the Premier League according to the league table is Manchester United who were battered like a holiday home in Florida during Hurricane season by Athletic Bilbao home and away. (This team are 11th in La Liga!) You will say that Manchester United were not taking this competition seriously but when you look at the teams picked for both games its clear they were. All players want to win each game, but when you are playing a technically superior team it is easy to hide behind the excuses. Even star players like Micheal Carrick and Ashley Young were quoted as saying they want to win the competition.

www.click-manchester.com/.../1215633-we-want-to-win-europa-league-claims-manchester-united-star-young.html -

Spanish teams technique and strength is far superior to the English game now. It even reflects at International level as to how far the Spanish players are ahead of their rivals.

Finally there is the level of ability within the league. IF you were to take teams of equal league position and play them against each other from the league (i.e. 1st v 1st, 2nd v 2nd etc etc) I would bet my 606v2 account that Spanish Teams would be victorious.



1 Real Madrid V Manchester United Madrid Win
2 Barcelona V Manchester City Barcalona Win
3 Valencia V Arsenal Draw
4 Malaga V Tottenham Hotspur Malaga Win
5 Levante V Chelsea Chelsea Win
6 Osasuna V Newcastle United Osasuna Win
7 Atletico Madrid V Everton Madrid Win
8 Sevilla V Liverpool Draw
9 Espanyol V Sunderland Espanyol Win
10 Getafe V Fulham Getafe Win
11 Athletic Bilbao v Swansea City Bilbao Win
12 Rayo Vallecano V Norwich City Rayo Win
13 Real Sociedad V Stoke City Stoke Win
14 Real Mallorca V WBA Real Win
15 Real Betis V Aston Villa Betis Win
16 Granada V Bolton Wanderers Bolton Wanderers Win
17 Villarreal V Queens Park Rangers Villarreal Win
18 Real Zaragoza V Blackburn Rovers Zaragoza
19 Sporting Gijon V Wigan Athletic Draw
20 Racing Santander V Wolves Santander Win

SPAIN 15 V ENGLAND 3 V DRAW 2

Bolton have massively under achieved this season and I believe they would beat their Spanish counterpart in a one off game. Chelsea play excellent European football and so did Stoke. Arsenal would do very well to get a draw as they have been on fire with form recently. Not so much in european football though.

Does anybody else agree? Would you also agree with my out match predictions?

Your thoughts on the matter are always appreciated!
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 04 Apr 2012, 1:46 pm

Well I think that Norwich would beat Rayo Vallecano tbh Very Happy

I would say the EPL is the most exciting League, not the best League in terms of quality but week in week out it is by far the most exciting in Europe
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Post by Stella on Wed 04 Apr 2012, 2:26 pm

Second best then Very Happy

TBH, who cares. I like it and so do millions around the world.
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Post by Guest on Wed 04 Apr 2012, 2:30 pm

PL is the best IMO, much more compeitive than most leagues...

la liga- only ever barca or madrid

Italy-milans or juve or roma most of the time

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Post by Hero on Wed 04 Apr 2012, 2:46 pm

Domestic League winners 1992 onwards (Premier League starts)

English Premier League

Manchester United 12
Chelsea 3
Arsenal 3
Blackburn 1

Serie A

AC Milan 7
Juventus 5
Inter Milan 5
Lazio 1
Roma 1

La Liga

Barcelona 9
Real Madrid 6
Athletico 1
Deportivo La Coruna 1
Valencia 1

Bundesliga

Bayern Munich 10
Borussia Dortmund 4
Werder Bremen 2
VfB Stuttgart 1
WfL Wolfsburg 1
Kaiserslautern 1

Ligue 1

Lyon 7
Bordeaux 2
Nantes 2
PSG 1
Lens 1
Auxerre 1
Monaco 1
Marseille 1
Lille 1

Much more competitive?

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Post by Guest on Wed 04 Apr 2012, 3:06 pm

I watch Premier League and La Liga week in week out. Premier League is far more competitive in terms of there is a much bigger opportunity for the lower league teams to beat the top teams on a regular basis. That simply doesnt happen in La Liga. Every week Madrid or Barcelona destroy teams by 4 or 5 goals, whereas in England the games are much closer and more competitive....that's why the league is more exciting to watch, hence the more TV money the teams receive compared to in Spain. You can pick the top 2 in spain every year and the gap between themselves and say 3rd or 4th is ridiculous compared to England.

Spain has the two best players in the world at the two top spanish clubs, whereas england has quality players throughout the division right from the top to the bottom. I mean a club like santander have appaling players, whereas Blackburn have yakubu & hoilett........both of which are quality players and i expect top clubs would jump at the chance of buying them. There is no way in hell Osasuna would beat Newcastle united and Tottenham would destroy Malaga at the lane.

Yes the prem hasnt been great this season but the best matches are still seen here and it's the most competitive. Madrid have only lost to barcelona this season i think, just shows how boring and predictable the la liga is until an el classico comes around.

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Post by Liam on Wed 04 Apr 2012, 3:08 pm

cricketfan90 wrote:PL is the best IMO, much more compeitive than most leagues...

la liga- only ever barca or madrid

Italy-milans or juve or roma most of the time

This is such a naive argument I hear it all the time. As the poster above has shown Untied have been the dominant force in the premier league. The reason Madrid and Barca are at the top is because that the rest of the Spanish teams apart from Malaga are cash strapped. They rely on youth players which is why the Spanish team is so strong. Look at Getafe, its like a breeding ground for Real Madrid, who come in and pluck their star talent. Barca's team is one of a kind, not many teams beat them. Madrid have the second best side in the world, so it going to obviously be between them two until one of the other sides achieves some serious investment. If you ask me the Spanish teams do a damn sight better than most other teams would do if they had to play Barca and Madrid every season.

La Liga teams would will always beat premier league teams due to their advance technical ability and philosophy, something embedded into them from a very young age. Why do you think the premier league teams always buy top Spanish players, its because they are the best technically. You never hear apart from a few instances where a premier league player has moved to a spanish side and have nailed down a starting place and been a star.

Pennant
Owen
Beckham-Had to play him cm because he couldn't get in the RM
Woodgate

Those are the only names that spring to mind.

Now from the Spanish league to the premier league you have:

Arteta
Torres
Alonso
Fab
Hierro
Campo
Garcia
Silva
Reyes
Reina

To name but a few who have all left a mark on their respected clubs.

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Post by Stella on Wed 04 Apr 2012, 3:20 pm

martyr

To be fair, some of those players have played for the smaller/not so good Clubs, ie Bolton and Everton.

I'm sure some of our players could get into a mid table Spanish side if they wanted to.
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Post by Liam on Wed 04 Apr 2012, 3:21 pm

John wrote:I watch Premier League and La Liga week in week out. Premier League is far more competitive in terms of there is a much bigger opportunity for the lower league teams to beat the top teams on a regular basis. That simply doesnt happen in La Liga. Every week Madrid or Barcelona destroy teams by 4 or 5 goals, whereas in England the games are much closer and more competitive....that's why the league is more exciting to watch, hence the more TV money the teams receive compared to in Spain. You can pick the top 2 in spain every year and the gap between themselves and say 3rd or 4th is ridiculous compared to England.

Spain has the two best players in the world at the two top spanish clubs, whereas england has quality players throughout the division right from the top to the bottom. I mean a club like santander have appaling players, whereas Blackburn have yakubu & hoilett........both of which are quality players and i expect top clubs would jump at the chance of buying them. There is no way in hell Osasuna would beat Newcastle united and Tottenham would destroy Malaga at the lane.

Yes the prem hasnt been great this season but the best matches are still seen here and it's the most competitive. Madrid have only lost to barcelona this season i think, just shows how boring and predictable the la liga is until an el classico comes around.

That's what everyone thought when Villareal played Everton in the 4th place play off for the champions league, we know what happened there. We all though that when Fulham played Athletico, we all though that the tought british side would be too good for the nancies from Spain, we know what happened there. We all thought United would pass easily into the next round when draw against Bilbao. We all thought that Stoke would be too big and too powerful for Valencia, we all know (Some of us knew what would happen there).

You also name Santander, but fail to mention any of their players, you cannot simply say "They are rubbish" without actually watching them play. Every side in the Spanish league get hammered against the top two because they try to play football against them. Allot of the time it works but then obviously their superior quality shines through. I can tell you that Spain's bottom three has allot more quality than the premier leagues bottom three. By the way, United and City have also trounced sides 4 or 5 nil this season, no different to La Liga, and Barcalona have actually struggled against lower ranking teams in La Liga:

Sociedad 2-2 Barca
Bilbao 2-2 Barca
Getafe 1-0 Barca
Espanyol 1-1 Barca
Villareal 0-0 Barca
Osasuna 3-2 Barca

Madrid:

Levante 1-0 Madrid
Santander 0-0 Madrid
Villareal 1-1 Madrid

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Post by Liam on Wed 04 Apr 2012, 3:25 pm

Stella wrote:martyr

To be fair, some of those players have played for the smaller/not so good Clubs, ie Bolton and Everton.

I'm sure some of our players could get into a mid table Spanish side if they wanted to.

The reason they don't sign them though is because the players coming through their youth system are better technically, and can handle the more technically gifted strikers they come up against. Look at Martinez and Iriola at Bilbao for instance.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 04 Apr 2012, 3:26 pm

martyr_94 wrote:
John wrote:I watch Premier League and La Liga week in week out. Premier League is far more competitive in terms of there is a much bigger opportunity for the lower league teams to beat the top teams on a regular basis. That simply doesnt happen in La Liga. Every week Madrid or Barcelona destroy teams by 4 or 5 goals, whereas in England the games are much closer and more competitive....that's why the league is more exciting to watch, hence the more TV money the teams receive compared to in Spain. You can pick the top 2 in spain every year and the gap between themselves and say 3rd or 4th is ridiculous compared to England.

Spain has the two best players in the world at the two top spanish clubs, whereas england has quality players throughout the division right from the top to the bottom. I mean a club like santander have appaling players, whereas Blackburn have yakubu & hoilett........both of which are quality players and i expect top clubs would jump at the chance of buying them. There is no way in hell Osasuna would beat Newcastle united and Tottenham would destroy Malaga at the lane.

Yes the prem hasnt been great this season but the best matches are still seen here and it's the most competitive. Madrid have only lost to barcelona this season i think, just shows how boring and predictable the la liga is until an el classico comes around.

That's what everyone thought when Villareal played Everton in the 4th place play off for the champions league, we know what happened there. We all though that when Fulham played Athletico, we all though that the tought british side would be too good for the nancies from Spain, we know what happened there. We all thought United would pass easily into the next round when draw against Bilbao. We all thought that Stoke would be too big and too powerful for Valencia, we all know (Some of us knew what would happen there).

You also name Santander, but fail to mention any of their players, you cannot simply say "They are rubbish" without actually watching them play. Every side in the Spanish league get hammered against the top two because they try to play football against them. Allot of the time it works but then obviously their superior quality shines through. I can tell you that Spain's bottom three has allot more quality than the premier leagues bottom three. By the way, United and City have also trounced sides 4 or 5 nil this season, no different to La Liga, and Barcalona have actually struggled against lower ranking teams in La Liga:

Sociedad 2-2 Barca
Bilbao 2-2 Barca
Getafe 1-0 Barca
Espanyol 1-1 Barca
Villareal 0-0 Barca
Osasuna 3-2 Barca

Madrid:

Levante 1-0 Madrid
Santander 0-0 Madrid
Villareal 1-1 Madrid

If anyone seriously thought that Stoke would beat Valencia they must have been a bit cuckoo Whistle
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Post by Stella on Wed 04 Apr 2012, 3:29 pm

martyr_94 wrote:
Stella wrote:martyr

To be fair, some of those players have played for the smaller/not so good Clubs, ie Bolton and Everton.

I'm sure some of our players could get into a mid table Spanish side if they wanted to.

The reason they don't sign them though is because the players coming through their youth system are better technically, and can handle the more technically gifted strikers they come up against. Look at Martinez and Iriola at Bilbao for instance.

Technically better, yes.

That's what annoys me when I watch England play. They TRY and kick it around the back four like Italy, Spain do and then give it away.
When I was 10 we played 11 a-side on a big pitch with big goals. No wonder we get left behind.
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Post by Liam on Wed 04 Apr 2012, 3:30 pm

ollyrules wrote:
martyr_94 wrote:
John wrote:I watch Premier League and La Liga week in week out. Premier League is far more competitive in terms of there is a much bigger opportunity for the lower league teams to beat the top teams on a regular basis. That simply doesnt happen in La Liga. Every week Madrid or Barcelona destroy teams by 4 or 5 goals, whereas in England the games are much closer and more competitive....that's why the league is more exciting to watch, hence the more TV money the teams receive compared to in Spain. You can pick the top 2 in spain every year and the gap between themselves and say 3rd or 4th is ridiculous compared to England.

Spain has the two best players in the world at the two top spanish clubs, whereas england has quality players throughout the division right from the top to the bottom. I mean a club like santander have appaling players, whereas Blackburn have yakubu & hoilett........both of which are quality players and i expect top clubs would jump at the chance of buying them. There is no way in hell Osasuna would beat Newcastle united and Tottenham would destroy Malaga at the lane.

Yes the prem hasnt been great this season but the best matches are still seen here and it's the most competitive. Madrid have only lost to barcelona this season i think, just shows how boring and predictable the la liga is until an el classico comes around.

That's what everyone thought when Villareal played Everton in the 4th place play off for the champions league, we know what happened there. We all though that when Fulham played Athletico, we all though that the tought british side would be too good for the nancies from Spain, we know what happened there. We all thought United would pass easily into the next round when draw against Bilbao. We all thought that Stoke would be too big and too powerful for Valencia, we all know (Some of us knew what would happen there).

You also name Santander, but fail to mention any of their players, you cannot simply say "They are rubbish" without actually watching them play. Every side in the Spanish league get hammered against the top two because they try to play football against them. Allot of the time it works but then obviously their superior quality shines through. I can tell you that Spain's bottom three has allot more quality than the premier leagues bottom three. By the way, United and City have also trounced sides 4 or 5 nil this season, no different to La Liga, and Barcalona have actually struggled against lower ranking teams in La Liga:

Sociedad 2-2 Barca
Bilbao 2-2 Barca
Getafe 1-0 Barca
Espanyol 1-1 Barca
Villareal 0-0 Barca
Osasuna 3-2 Barca

Madrid:

Levante 1-0 Madrid
Santander 0-0 Madrid
Villareal 1-1 Madrid

If anyone seriously thought that Stoke would beat Valencia they must have been a bit cuckoo Whistle

Yeh they would, but there were quite a few bringing out the old cliche of "The Spanish sides don't like playing in the cold, wet rain at the britania".

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Post by Stella on Wed 04 Apr 2012, 3:33 pm

martyr_94 wrote:
ollyrules wrote:
martyr_94 wrote:
John wrote:I watch Premier League and La Liga week in week out. Premier League is far more competitive in terms of there is a much bigger opportunity for the lower league teams to beat the top teams on a regular basis. That simply doesnt happen in La Liga. Every week Madrid or Barcelona destroy teams by 4 or 5 goals, whereas in England the games are much closer and more competitive....that's why the league is more exciting to watch, hence the more TV money the teams receive compared to in Spain. You can pick the top 2 in spain every year and the gap between themselves and say 3rd or 4th is ridiculous compared to England.

Spain has the two best players in the world at the two top spanish clubs, whereas england has quality players throughout the division right from the top to the bottom. I mean a club like santander have appaling players, whereas Blackburn have yakubu & hoilett........both of which are quality players and i expect top clubs would jump at the chance of buying them. There is no way in hell Osasuna would beat Newcastle united and Tottenham would destroy Malaga at the lane.

Yes the prem hasnt been great this season but the best matches are still seen here and it's the most competitive. Madrid have only lost to barcelona this season i think, just shows how boring and predictable the la liga is until an el classico comes around.

That's what everyone thought when Villareal played Everton in the 4th place play off for the champions league, we know what happened there. We all though that when Fulham played Athletico, we all though that the tought british side would be too good for the nancies from Spain, we know what happened there. We all thought United would pass easily into the next round when draw against Bilbao. We all thought that Stoke would be too big and too powerful for Valencia, we all know (Some of us knew what would happen there).

You also name Santander, but fail to mention any of their players, you cannot simply say "They are rubbish" without actually watching them play. Every side in the Spanish league get hammered against the top two because they try to play football against them. Allot of the time it works but then obviously their superior quality shines through. I can tell you that Spain's bottom three has allot more quality than the premier leagues bottom three. By the way, United and City have also trounced sides 4 or 5 nil this season, no different to La Liga, and Barcalona have actually struggled against lower ranking teams in La Liga:

Sociedad 2-2 Barca
Bilbao 2-2 Barca
Getafe 1-0 Barca
Espanyol 1-1 Barca
Villareal 0-0 Barca
Osasuna 3-2 Barca

Madrid:

Levante 1-0 Madrid
Santander 0-0 Madrid
Villareal 1-1 Madrid

If anyone seriously thought that Stoke would beat Valencia they must have been a bit cuckoo Whistle

Yeh they would, but there were quite a few bringing out the old cliche of "The Spanish sides don't like playing in the cold, wet rain at the britania".

I use to see that comment on the old BBC 606 but presumed posters were joking?
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Post by Liam on Wed 04 Apr 2012, 3:41 pm

Stella wrote:
martyr_94 wrote:
Stella wrote:martyr

To be fair, some of those players have played for the smaller/not so good Clubs, ie Bolton and Everton.

I'm sure some of our players could get into a mid table Spanish side if they wanted to.

The reason they don't sign them though is because the players coming through their youth system are better technically, and can handle the more technically gifted strikers they come up against. Look at Martinez and Iriola at Bilbao for instance.

Technically better, yes.

That's what annoys me when I watch England play. They TRY and kick it around the back four like Italy, Spain do and then give it away.
When I was 10 we played 11 a-side on a big pitch with big goals. No wonder we get left behind.

Grass roots needs a serious rehalling. Asking 11 year olds like myself and you to play on a pitch most adults do was insane. I remember for the first time, and we were told by the coach to kick it as hard as you could so the strikers could run onto it. Spain and most other countries don't do this. From 5 a side pitches, you need all 11-14 years olds playing on half of full size pitches, 8 a side, then when their bodies are almost fully developed and they can handle 80 mins of football, then get them playing full size 11 a side pitches from 16+. They will be technically better as they would have to have a good touch, pass and movement on smaller pitches, and will revel with the added space and extra team mates, encouraging passing football.

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Post by Stella on Wed 04 Apr 2012, 3:47 pm

Yeah, punt it up field or/and get it wide.

Also, about 10 players would go for the ball like a bunch of sheep. Eventually the ball would pop out of what was like a rugby scrum and the lucky boy would be free to run up field. Not the best training to counter Spain etc Very Happy

I think they do play on smaller pitches now but we are 20 year to late. That's why I think England should play to there strengths and not pass it for the sake of it.
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 04 Apr 2012, 3:50 pm

Our best style of football is when we get it on the ground and play. The build up is when we go wrong. We try to do it slowly like Spain but our players don't have the movement like the Spanish so what we should do is attack with pace and intensity, using our strengths in these areas
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Post by Stella on Wed 04 Apr 2012, 3:53 pm

Yeah that's the problem. We seem to pass for the sake of it at times.
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Post by Hero on Wed 04 Apr 2012, 3:54 pm

They're still teaching kids the wrong way.
My 6 year old is pretty good, he's slight though and he's never going to be much of a tackler, he does though have excellent close control of the ball and can use both feet, he's also quite advanced at being able to spot others in better positions and actually pass to them (not somethig most 6 year olds are willing to do).
Yet his club stick him with 7 or 8 others against similar sized teams and every week it becomes rugby scrum like with the ball getting loose, one kid getting it and a rampaging horde giving chase.

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Post by Stella on Wed 04 Apr 2012, 3:57 pm

Also, out training consisted of about 80% fitness.

Ball control should take precedent, surely?
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 04 Apr 2012, 3:58 pm

To be fair at my old club when we were under 14's and 15's all we used to do was ball work, doing keep ball for like 45 minutes per session. It helped because we went undefeated the whole season
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Post by Stella on Wed 04 Apr 2012, 3:59 pm

ollyrules wrote:To be fair at my old club when we were under 14's and 15's all we used to do was ball work, doing keep ball for like 45 minutes per session. It helped because we went undefeated the whole season

I'm 40, so things may have changed a bit Very Happy
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Post by Thomond on Wed 04 Apr 2012, 3:59 pm

Spain in ten years will be the SPL now. Nobody wants to see that. The prem isn't great but overall it is better.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 04 Apr 2012, 4:00 pm

Stella wrote:
ollyrules wrote:To be fair at my old club when we were under 14's and 15's all we used to do was ball work, doing keep ball for like 45 minutes per session. It helped because we went undefeated the whole season

I'm 40, so things may have changed a bit Very Happy

Laugh Laugh

They are trying to encourage this more now, but its just getting the coaches to do it thats the problem (Hero being the exception Wink )
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Post by Hero on Wed 04 Apr 2012, 4:08 pm

They have asked me to take over as manager of the team though so I'll be dropping it down to max 5 a side asap.

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Post by Mat on Wed 04 Apr 2012, 4:14 pm

Why do all the Spanish teams get to be at home in the comparison? Surely that would have a big influence on things.

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Post by Guest on Wed 04 Apr 2012, 4:34 pm

exactly.......spurs would hammer malaga at the lane so would newcastle over osasuna. fulham at home would do getafe and even norwich would beat vallecano at carrow road. its a shockin comparison list! The prem is more competitive and more enjoyable to watch and La Liga has the more skillful, talented players of a superior technical ability at two clubs out of 20 but it is overshadowed through poor, poor lack of depth compared to the prem. End of debate.

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Post by Stella on Wed 04 Apr 2012, 4:35 pm

John wrote:exactly.......spurs would hammer malaga at the lane so would newcastle over osasuna. fulham at home would do getafe and even norwich would beat vallecano at carrow road. its a shockin comparison list! The prem is more competitive and more enjoyable to watch and La Liga has the more skillful, talented players of a superior technical ability but it is overshadowed through poor, poor lack of depth compared to the prem. End of debate.

Utd did though get beat and outplayed by Bilbao, home and away.
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Post by bretmeharty on Wed 04 Apr 2012, 5:03 pm

John wrote:exactly.......spurs would hammer malaga at the lane so would newcastle over osasuna. fulham at home would do getafe and even norwich would beat vallecano at carrow road. its a shockin comparison list! The prem is more competitive and more enjoyable to watch and La Liga has the more skillful, talented players of a superior technical ability at two clubs out of 20 but it is overshadowed through poor, poor lack of depth compared to the prem. End of debate.

That is such a naive statement to make, to say that apart for the top 2 there is no depth is shocking.

Seville, Valencia, Ath Mildrid, Villarreal and even Real Betis are strong sides, ok they aren't having their best season this year but them as well as a few more that can be added, do give Barca and Mardrid a game on most occasions.

Regarding that list from the OP, On 2 legs home and away I couldn't say for definite but it would be close.

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Post by Liam on Wed 04 Apr 2012, 5:14 pm

Mat wrote:Why do all the Spanish teams get to be at home in the comparison? Surely that would have a big influence on things.

Because i'm making a point of the lower sides taking points off the big two in argument of they always get hammered by them. I agree, they do at home, but how many sides go to Barca and Madrid and beat them. How many have gone to City or United this season and beat them:

Man Utd 4-1 Wolves
Man Utd 5-0 Wigan
Man Utd 2-3 Blackburn being the only exception
Man Utd 3-0 Bolton

City at home against relegation threatened clubs:

City 3-0 Wigan
City 3-1 Wolves
City 3-0 Blackburn

City have won every game at home this season, Utd lost 2, one to City and one to Blackburn. They have both beaten lower sides pretty combfortably, United hammering them, yet if I showed some people the same results in La Liga they would be all "Because La Liga isn't competitive". They're not competitive away at Barca and Real because those two teams are the two best in the world. You put Wigan, Bolton, Wolves, QPR against those two and they would get the same treatment.

ESPN wrote a good article on this issues, with stats backing it up. La Liga is in my view now better than the premier league, but this gap has been decreasing in the past few seasons:

Since the inception of the Champions League in 1992, Spain has had 12 different clubs participating in Europe's elite club competition compared to nine from the Premier League. Of the English participants, Blackburn Rovers (one appearance) last featured in 1995-96, Leeds United (one) in 2000-01. Spurs (last season) and Manchester City (this season) also made one appearance

Between them, the erstwhile "big four" of the Premier League -- Liverpool has, for now, ceded its place to City -- have racked up 49 Champions League appearances.
In the same period, La Liga has supplied Barcelona and Real on a combined 32 occasions, with multiple appearances from Valencia (eight), Deportivo (five), Atlético (three), Villarreal (three), Sevilla (two) and random contributions from Mallorca, Real Sociedad, Celta, Betis and Athletic.

This season, Valencia is by no means guaranteed to qualify -- any side from third down to Athletic Bilbao in 11th place still has an outside shot. That includes such heavyweights as Osasuna, Levante, Espanyol and Getafe, plus newly rich Malaga, which has snuck into fourth, level on points with Valencia.
Compare with the Premier League, where the Manchesters will be joined by two of Arsenal, Tottenham, Chelsea and Newcastle.
Only when Wolves, Bolton, Sunderland and Villa are within a shout of the Champions League with fewer than 10 games to go in a season can the Premier League point to La Liga's supposed lack of competitiveness with a straight face.

Shut the door on your way
Since Florentino Pérez swept up two of the Premier League's top performers in Cristiano Ronaldo and Xabi Alonso in 2009, the traffic of players between the two leagues has been very much one way. La Liga has lost young stars (David Silva, Kun Aguero, Juan Mata and David de Gea) with Cesc Fabregas and not much else coming back the other way.

Reports abound that Chelsea is after Gonzalo Higuain, Angel di Maria, Falcao -- even Ronaldo -- while Athletic Bilbao faces a summer of poaching attempts and Valencia may have to hide Roberto Soldado for safe keeping after the Euros. The number of Premier League stars currently interested in La Liga? Gareth Bale, maybe.

Cashing out
A good reason for this exodus is, of course, that Spain is up to its eyeballs in debt, with dozens of clubs going into administration, some disappearing entirely and the total debt to the taxman standing at about 750 million euros.

During 2011-12, English clubs went over 192 million pounds in the red through transfers. La Liga went into debt to the tune of 52 million euros, almost all of it spent by Malaga, which didn't have much to sell to balance the books. Real and Barca played their parts, of course, but 12 La Liga clubs broke even or better compared to just six in England. Of last season's top four in both leagues, only Arsenal and Villarreal posted a profit.

My Michel
Why does this matter? Because UEFA chief Michel Platini's much-vaunted Financial Fair Play rules are soon to come into effect, preventing clubs from spending beyond their revenue-generating capacity -- effectively prohibiting the use of money generated outside soccer on player transfers.

Of course, there is a loophole that Real, with its new luxury resort development in Ras al-Khaimah, and City, with its Etihad airline deal and plans for a 1 billion pound development around its stadium, are exploiting already: The rules don't apply if clubs spend money from outside sources on infrastructure. UEFA also states that "activities clearly using the brand of the club as part of their operations" will count as relevant revenue stream toward breaking even. All very well for the big boys, but the smaller clubs are going to feel the pinch. In this respect, La Liga is already well ahead of the Premier League.

La Liga's fifth-best team
It's worth mentioning again: In Europe at the moment, England has one team, Spain five. There is every possibility of a Spanish Champions League-Europa League double, something only achieved once before, by Barcelona and Sevilla in 2006.

The English media scoffed at Athletic's status as Spain's fifth-best team before Marcelo Bielsa's side annihilated Manchester United, by its own criteria the best team in the Premier League, over two legs. Athletic is now just Spain's 11th-best team, and Portugal's fifth-best side, Sporting, beat Manchester City. Chelsea is in the driver's seat against Benfica, but will then probably play Barcelona. Ask the sports betting sites how that one is expected to turn out.


I think this sums up my views perfectly.

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Post by Mat on Wed 04 Apr 2012, 5:18 pm

martyr_94 wrote:
Mat wrote:Why do all the Spanish teams get to be at home in the comparison? Surely that would have a big influence on things.

Because i'm making a point of the lower sides taking points off the big two in argument of they always get hammered by them. I agree, they do at home, but how many sides go to Barca and Madrid and beat them. How many have gone to City or United this season and beat them:

Man Utd 4-1 Wolves
Man Utd 5-0 Wigan
Man Utd 2-3 Blackburn being the only exception
Man Utd 3-0 Bolton

City at home against relegation threatened clubs:

City 3-0 Wigan
City 3-1 Wolves
City 3-0 Blackburn

City have won every game at home this season, Utd lost 2, one to City and one to Blackburn. They have both beaten lower sides pretty combfortably, United hammering them, yet if I showed some people the same results in La Liga they would be all "Because La Liga isn't competitive". They're not competitive away at Barca and Real because those two teams are the two best in the world. You put Wigan, Bolton, Wolves, QPR against those two and they would get the same treatment.

ESPN wrote a good article on this issues, with stats backing it up. La Liga is in my view now better than the premier league, but this gap has been decreasing in the past few seasons:

Since the inception of the Champions League in 1992, Spain has had 12 different clubs participating in Europe's elite club competition compared to nine from the Premier League. Of the English participants, Blackburn Rovers (one appearance) last featured in 1995-96, Leeds United (one) in 2000-01. Spurs (last season) and Manchester City (this season) also made one appearance

Between them, the erstwhile "big four" of the Premier League -- Liverpool has, for now, ceded its place to City -- have racked up 49 Champions League appearances.
In the same period, La Liga has supplied Barcelona and Real on a combined 32 occasions, with multiple appearances from Valencia (eight), Deportivo (five), Atlético (three), Villarreal (three), Sevilla (two) and random contributions from Mallorca, Real Sociedad, Celta, Betis and Athletic.

This season, Valencia is by no means guaranteed to qualify -- any side from third down to Athletic Bilbao in 11th place still has an outside shot. That includes such heavyweights as Osasuna, Levante, Espanyol and Getafe, plus newly rich Malaga, which has snuck into fourth, level on points with Valencia.
Compare with the Premier League, where the Manchesters will be joined by two of Arsenal, Tottenham, Chelsea and Newcastle.
Only when Wolves, Bolton, Sunderland and Villa are within a shout of the Champions League with fewer than 10 games to go in a season can the Premier League point to La Liga's supposed lack of competitiveness with a straight face.

Shut the door on your way
Since Florentino Pérez swept up two of the Premier League's top performers in Cristiano Ronaldo and Xabi Alonso in 2009, the traffic of players between the two leagues has been very much one way. La Liga has lost young stars (David Silva, Kun Aguero, Juan Mata and David de Gea) with Cesc Fabregas and not much else coming back the other way.

Reports abound that Chelsea is after Gonzalo Higuain, Angel di Maria, Falcao -- even Ronaldo -- while Athletic Bilbao faces a summer of poaching attempts and Valencia may have to hide Roberto Soldado for safe keeping after the Euros. The number of Premier League stars currently interested in La Liga? Gareth Bale, maybe.

Cashing out
A good reason for this exodus is, of course, that Spain is up to its eyeballs in debt, with dozens of clubs going into administration, some disappearing entirely and the total debt to the taxman standing at about 750 million euros.

During 2011-12, English clubs went over 192 million pounds in the red through transfers. La Liga went into debt to the tune of 52 million euros, almost all of it spent by Malaga, which didn't have much to sell to balance the books. Real and Barca played their parts, of course, but 12 La Liga clubs broke even or better compared to just six in England. Of last season's top four in both leagues, only Arsenal and Villarreal posted a profit.

My Michel
Why does this matter? Because UEFA chief Michel Platini's much-vaunted Financial Fair Play rules are soon to come into effect, preventing clubs from spending beyond their revenue-generating capacity -- effectively prohibiting the use of money generated outside soccer on player transfers.

Of course, there is a loophole that Real, with its new luxury resort development in Ras al-Khaimah, and City, with its Etihad airline deal and plans for a 1 billion pound development around its stadium, are exploiting already: The rules don't apply if clubs spend money from outside sources on infrastructure. UEFA also states that "activities clearly using the brand of the club as part of their operations" will count as relevant revenue stream toward breaking even. All very well for the big boys, but the smaller clubs are going to feel the pinch. In this respect, La Liga is already well ahead of the Premier League.

La Liga's fifth-best team
It's worth mentioning again: In Europe at the moment, England has one team, Spain five. There is every possibility of a Spanish Champions League-Europa League double, something only achieved once before, by Barcelona and Sevilla in 2006.

The English media scoffed at Athletic's status as Spain's fifth-best team before Marcelo Bielsa's side annihilated Manchester United, by its own criteria the best team in the Premier League, over two legs. Athletic is now just Spain's 11th-best team, and Portugal's fifth-best side, Sporting, beat Manchester City. Chelsea is in the driver's seat against Benfica, but will then probably play Barcelona. Ask the sports betting sites how that one is expected to turn out.


I think this sums up my views perfectly.

Cheers for that...but I meant in the original post where it put 1st vs 1st, 2nd vs 2nd etc.

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Post by Alessandro Ciambella on Wed 04 Apr 2012, 5:22 pm

I would like to see these games played on neutral territory. Like the mercurial 39th Premier League game.
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Post by Liam on Wed 04 Apr 2012, 5:22 pm

Mat,

No problem, wasn't having a go at you, think I meant to include someone else instead who claimed every premier league side would "Hammer" basically every side in the La Liga, the most naive statement I've probably ever read on here

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Post by bretmeharty on Wed 04 Apr 2012, 5:34 pm

Last 10 years - teams in top 4 English Prem - Arsenal, Man U, Chelsea, Liverpool, Everton, Man City, Spurs. With 3 of those teams winning the league, even this list is flatting as City and Spurs are there only within the last 2 years.


Last 10 years - teams in top 4 Spain - Barcelona, R. Madrid, R Sociedad, Deportivo, Celta De Vigo, Valencia c, Osasuna, Malaga, Sevilla, Ath Madrid, Villarreal. With 3 winning the league

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