The Energy Market

[Y I Man]

British Gas have confirmed an average rate increase of 9.2% with effect from 23rd November.
This follows SSE who confirmed last week they are increasing rates by an average of 8.2% next month also.

Its only a matter of time until the other 4 from the 'big 6' announce their increases also, but given this is now a yearly occurrence, whats the answer?

Some guy at the government said he would freeze prices if in power etc, but is it likely?
It is worth customers looking to alternative energy supplies outside of the 'big 6' like Ovo, Utilita, Direct Utilities etc?
The issue with these smaller companies is high cancellation fees when leaving, lack of public awareness, and contract terms that the big 6 dont have.
Obviously there is the option to fix your rates for a certain period of time so you are not affected by increases, however, you pay extra for this due to the guarantee your rates dont go up, then at the end of the tariff hit by any increases during that period.

So whats the answer?  Is there one?  Or are we stuck with ever increasing prices?

[david lee]

there is not alot you can do
i were extra clothes in winter to save on gas bill.

[Guest]

There are no limits as to what the energy companies can levy from its customers. Whereas Thames Water was recently blocked from increasing prices by c.8% (from memory), British Gas et al have free reign to do what they want. And in the name of 'researching future energy sources'.

If they do secure future energy sources, they'll be able to charge the earth for them. If they don't, we're all stuffed. So they have us all over a barrel of oil.

Small point too, that 'guy at the government' was Ed Miliband - and the closest to government he'll ever get is when he goes to sleep at night. He's walking, stuttering disaster.

[Champagne_Socialist]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ho6tdkZ1IJg

Great video by Labour showing the struggle the average British person is going through due to these energy price increases.

[Duty281]

Good old Labour. Not only have they brought the country to the brink of ruin twice, but they are massively hypocritical.

Ed Miliband was energy secretary for the last Labour government - look what happened. If it wasn't for Labour, there wouldn't even be a big six.

Winston Churchill once said that the biggest argument against democracy was a five minute conversation with the average voter. Perhaps the biggest argument against democracy today is that 39% of the country intend to vote for Labour at the next general election.

[Guest]

George Osbourne has an apporval rating of -53 which, as Andy Parsons says, implies that even imaginary people think he's sh!t. Appartently whilst at University he was held upside down and his head bounced of the floor whilst his tormentors chanted "Who are you?" until he replied "I'm a despicable c**t!" and you wonder why the Country is in such a state with people like this in charge.

Not wishing to blind you all with my immense political insights but these f*****s all pi$$ in the same pot.

[TopHat24/7]

Gideon is just sooooooooooooooooooooo unlikeable. And that's coming from someone likely to vote Tory at the next GE! Really wish DC would dump is little mate and find someone better, or even simply neutral, for the role that's more likeable.

Pity Cable can't be trusted not to go a bit maverick otherwise I'd much rather he were in place.

[ShahenshahG]

Aye. Slender chance the **** might lose DC the election. However - I'd prefer even him to gove. I always want to take a running jump and headbutt the screen when he's on.

[jbeadlesbigrighthand]

Ed Miliband was energy secretary for the last Labour government - look what happened.

What did happen? Bear in mind Milliband was energy secretary for less than a year of that time. Anyway, it was Major who privatised the energy industry. That may not fit in with your personal political views, but it's fact.

If it wasn't for Labour, there wouldn't even be a big six.

What does that even mean? So far as I can tell, Labour inherited a system off the Tories, didn't do much to improve it, and now the Conservatives are back in power, and haven't done much to improve the system either.

[Duty281]

Ed Miliband was energy secretary for the last Labour government - look what happened.

What did happen? Bear in mind Milliband was energy secretary for less than a year of that time. Anyway, it was Major who privatised the energy industry. That may not fit in with your personal political views, but it's fact.

If it wasn't for Labour, there wouldn't even be a big six.

What does that even mean? So far as I can tell, Labour inherited a system off the Tories, didn't do much to improve it, and now the Conservatives are back in power, and haven't done much to improve the system either.

1) Rising bills mainly.

2) There were around 15 major energy companies (I think) when John Major left office, compared to six when Gordon Brown left office = less competition and higher prices.

[TopHat24/7]

Isn't that a job for the Competition Commission though? And aren't they meant to be independent of government?

[ShahenshahG]

Isn't that a job for the Competition Commission though? And aren't they meant to be independent of government?

Yes. Duty is just doing his i'm so english I shall point out my englishness at every opportunity routine. If Labour was the major party in england he'd be dissing john major just as much.

[Champagne_Socialist]

Forget about what the tories did in the 90's or what labour did in the early 2000's, we need to look at what the politcal party's are going to do NOW.

Conservatives have proposed turning off your heating and wearing an extra jumper to lower bills. They also proposed today that they would make it easier to change suppliers and that customers should shop around for the best deal.

Labour have proposed a price freeze for 2 years.

[Duty281]

Isn't that a job for the Competition Commission though? And aren't they meant to be independent of government?

Yes. Duty is just doing his i'm so english I shall point out my englishness at every opportunity routine. If Labour was the major party in england he'd be dissing john major just as much.

Eh?  

What's that got to do with anything. I don't like the Labour party, and that wouldn't change if they were the major party in England the United Kingdom.

[Champagne_Socialist]

?

[Champagne_Socialist]

Isn't that a job for the Competition Commission though? And aren't they meant to be independent of government?

Yes. Duty is just doing his i'm so english I shall point out my englishness at every opportunity routine. If Labour was the major party in england he'd be dissing john major just as much.

Eh?  

What's that got to do with anything. I don't like the Labour party, and that wouldn't change if they were the major party in England the United Kingdom.

Why don't you like labour?

[Duty281]

Forget about what the tories did in the 90's or what labour did in the early 2000's, we need to look at what the politcal party's are going to do NOW.

Conservatives have proposed turning off your heating and wearing an extra jumper to lower bills. They also proposed today that they would make it easier to change suppliers and that customers should shop around for the best deal.

Labour have proposed a price freeze for 2 years.

That simply wouldn't work. Make-believe politics from a weak leader.

[Champagne_Socialist]

Forget about what the tories did in the 90's or what labour did in the early 2000's, we need to look at what the politcal party's are going to do NOW.

Conservatives have proposed turning off your heating and wearing an extra jumper to lower bills. They also proposed today that they would make it easier to change suppliers and that customers should shop around for the best deal.

Labour have proposed a price freeze for 2 years.

That simply wouldn't work. Make-believe politics from a weak leader.

EXCUSE ME!!!!!

If Ed Miliband says he will do something then that means he WILL DO IT. Don't ever doubt him again!!!!

[Duty281]

Isn't that a job for the Competition Commission though? And aren't they meant to be independent of government?

Yes. Duty is just doing his i'm so english I shall point out my englishness at every opportunity routine. If Labour was the major party in england he'd be dissing john major just as much.

Eh?  

What's that got to do with anything. I don't like the Labour party, and that wouldn't change if they were the major party in England the United Kingdom.

Why don't you like labour?

Something to do with:

Economic ruin x2
Illegal wars
Won't give a referendum on the EU
Mass uncontrolled immigration is something they seem to favour
The policy of "we can fight discrimination by discriminating against the majority"
Give the Unions a free ride
Hand out welfare at every opportunity
Education policy of the last government was a shambles

That'll do to be getting on with.

[Champagne_Socialist]

John major suggested something similar to ed's price freeze. major suggested a windfall tax on the companies profits which would have a similar effect on the energy companies profits.

Only difference being that a price freeze leaves the money in the pockets of the consumers whilst a windfall tax leaves the money in the pockets of the treasury as they will collect it through taxation of the energy companies.

[Duty281]

Forget about what the tories did in the 90's or what labour did in the early 2000's, we need to look at what the politcal party's are going to do NOW.

Conservatives have proposed turning off your heating and wearing an extra jumper to lower bills. They also proposed today that they would make it easier to change suppliers and that customers should shop around for the best deal.

Labour have proposed a price freeze for 2 years.

That simply wouldn't work. Make-believe politics from a weak leader.

EXCUSE ME!!!!!

If Ed Miliband says he will do something then that means he WILL DO IT. Don't ever doubt him again!!!!

Oh yeah, without doubt. Ed's got a magic wand - he'll wave it and Britain will be cured.

[Champagne_Socialist]

Ed Miliband was energy secretary for the last Labour government - look what happened.

What did happen? Bear in mind Milliband was energy secretary for less than a year of that time. Anyway, it was Major who privatised the energy industry. That may not fit in with your personal political views, but it's fact.

If it wasn't for Labour, there wouldn't even be a big six.

What does that even mean? So far as I can tell, Labour inherited a system off the Tories, didn't do much to improve it, and now the Conservatives are back in power, and haven't done much to improve the system either.

1) Rising bills mainly.

2) There were around 15 major energy companies (I think) when John Major left office, compared to six when Gordon Brown left office = less competition and higher prices.

Energy bills actually dropped 5% in 2009 under Labour.

[Champagne_Socialist]

One of the central arguments underpinning Labour’s policy is the creation of a new regulator that will ensure drops in wholesale prices get passed on to people on their energy bills. The price freeze is just an initial measure until this is established.

Another aspect of the Labour energy policy is separating energy suppliers from generators – some companies do both at the moment – and forcing generators to sell energy into a pool to be bought by the suppliers. This will stop big energy companies generating energy themselves for much less than they sell it to us for but it will also bring more transparency to a confusing and secretive process. Labour recognises that more transparency will always aid the consumer.

(fabian society)

[Duty281]

Ed Miliband was energy secretary for the last Labour government - look what happened.

What did happen? Bear in mind Milliband was energy secretary for less than a year of that time. Anyway, it was Major who privatised the energy industry. That may not fit in with your personal political views, but it's fact.

If it wasn't for Labour, there wouldn't even be a big six.

What does that even mean? So far as I can tell, Labour inherited a system off the Tories, didn't do much to improve it, and now the Conservatives are back in power, and haven't done much to improve the system either.

1) Rising bills mainly.

2) There were around 15 major energy companies (I think) when John Major left office, compared to six when Gordon Brown left office = less competition and higher prices.

Energy bills actually dropped 5% in 2009 under Labour.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-2019735/Why-energy-bills-doubled-2004-gas-electricity-prices.html

Average household bills for energy went from £941 to £1,104 between the period of July 2008 to January 2010.

[jbeadlesbigrighthand]

Ed Miliband was energy secretary for the last Labour government - look what happened.

What did happen? Bear in mind Milliband was energy secretary for less than a year of that time. Anyway, it was Major who privatised the energy industry. That may not fit in with your personal political views, but it's fact.

If it wasn't for Labour, there wouldn't even be a big six.

What does that even mean? So far as I can tell, Labour inherited a system off the Tories, didn't do much to improve it, and now the Conservatives are back in power, and haven't done much to improve the system either.

1) Rising bills mainly.

2) There were around 15 major energy companies (I think) when John Major left office, compared to six when Gordon Brown left office = less competition and higher prices.

Energy bills actually dropped 5% in 2009 under Labour.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-2019735/Why-energy-bills-doubled-2004-gas-electricity-prices.html

Average household bills for energy went from £941 to £1,104 between the period of July 2008 to January 2010.

You know that the article you've quoted doesn't back up your view that rising costs are Labour's fault? It puts forward the view that rising costs to the consumer are the result of rising wholesale prices and the cost of investment in securing our energy supply in the long term.

Furthermore, the figures you've quoted suggest that in the year and a bit that Milliband was SoS for Energy and Climate Change, average household bills changed very little.

[Champagne_Socialist]

Ed Miliband was energy secretary for the last Labour government - look what happened.

What did happen? Bear in mind Milliband was energy secretary for less than a year of that time. Anyway, it was Major who privatised the energy industry. That may not fit in with your personal political views, but it's fact.

If it wasn't for Labour, there wouldn't even be a big six.

What does that even mean? So far as I can tell, Labour inherited a system off the Tories, didn't do much to improve it, and now the Conservatives are back in power, and haven't done much to improve the system either.

1) Rising bills mainly.

2) There were around 15 major energy companies (I think) when John Major left office, compared to six when Gordon Brown left office = less competition and higher prices.

Energy bills actually dropped 5% in 2009 under Labour.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-2019735/Why-energy-bills-doubled-2004-gas-electricity-prices.html

Average household bills for energy went from £941 to £1,104 between the period of July 2008 to January 2010.

If you look at the link you posted bills went downunder labour at the end of ther tenure and that trend continued until 2011 when the coalition was in power and bills rose.

January 2009
£1,153
April 2009
£1,115
January 2010
£1,104

September 2010
£1,069
July 2011
£1,132

[Duty281]

JB - There's still less competition because of the Labour party. God knows what they'll do to this country if they get in in 2015. Dear oh dear, I'd have to retreat to one of the last strongholds of the Anglo-Saxon race (that's me pointing out my Englishness!).

CS - Just pointing out that they didn't drop by 5 percent in 2009.

[Champagne_Socialist]

JB - There's still less competition because of the Labour party. God knows what they'll do to this country if they get in in 2015. Dear oh dear, I'd have to retreat to one of the last strongholds of the Anglo-Saxon race (that's me pointing out my Englishness!).

CS - Just pointing out that they didn't drop by 5 percent in 2009.

January 09 to january 10 bills dropped by about £50 from £1153 to £1104 which is about a 5% drop.

[Duty281]

Oh be reasonable - it's about 4%

[Champagne_Socialist]

Oh be reasonable - it's about 4%

what is worrying is that in the last 9 years energy bills have risen from about £450 to £1200 a year. Something needs to be done because otherwise every year there will be a 10% price increase and soon we will be paying £2000 a year on energy bills.

[TopHat24/7]

John major suggested something similar to ed's price freeze. major suggested a windfall tax on the companies profits which would have a similar effect on the energy companies profits.

Only difference being that a price freeze leaves the money in the pockets of the consumers whilst a windfall tax leaves the money in the pockets of the treasury as they will collect it through taxation of the energy companies.

John Major is just an embittered failed ex-Prime Minister though. He never got over Maggie saying she didn't think he was up to much, said when he was in office. Take his words with a pinch of salt.

[TopHat24/7]

Ed Miliband was energy secretary for the last Labour government - look what happened.

What did happen? Bear in mind Milliband was energy secretary for less than a year of that time. Anyway, it was Major who privatised the energy industry. That may not fit in with your personal political views, but it's fact.

If it wasn't for Labour, there wouldn't even be a big six.

What does that even mean? So far as I can tell, Labour inherited a system off the Tories, didn't do much to improve it, and now the Conservatives are back in power, and haven't done much to improve the system either.

1) Rising bills mainly.

2) There were around 15 major energy companies (I think) when John Major left office, compared to six when Gordon Brown left office = less competition and higher prices.

Energy bills actually dropped 5% in 2009 under Labour.

Another correlation vs causation fail.

[dummy_half]

John major suggested something similar to ed's price freeze. major suggested a windfall tax on the companies profits which would have a similar effect on the energy companies profits.

Only difference being that a price freeze leaves the money in the pockets of the consumers whilst a windfall tax leaves the money in the pockets of the treasury as they will collect it through taxation of the energy companies.

John Major is just an embittered failed ex-Prime Minister though.  He never got over Maggie saying she didn't think he was up to much, said when he was in office. Take his words with a pinch of salt.

Oh come on, someone who can make his favourite cricketer (Colin Cowdrey) an hereditary peer can't be all bad ...

Energy policy is a mess at the moment because of competing priorities in the DECC - Environmental priorities v Engineering priorities in maintaining sufficient power supply to match demand v keeping costs down for the consumer (as far as this is within the power of DECC). We have some major up-coming issues with coal fired power stations and soon some of the second generation nuclear being taken off line, with the electricity generating companies being discouraged to replace these with gas turbine stations, which are relatively small, and can be constructed quite rapidly, but onviously use a fossil fuel so do not help towards the CO2 reductins required under the climate change act passed during Millipede's time as Energy Secratary.

Low carbon sources? Well, wind turbines are the preferred 'Green' solution, but (A) are relatively inefficient in terms of amount of power generated compared with amount of land required and (B) do not provide a reliable output because they only work during a certain wind-speed window (i.e. naff all when it's calm OR when the wind exceeds their design maximum which iirc is about 25 to 30mph constant speed). In other words, they provide power when they can, not when we need it...
Solar: this is Britain - it's even more variable than wind. Have some uses as local sources, but not to be relied on.

The big issue for both of these is power storage - at the moment battery storage technology is far too inefficient to provide a cost effective option (and can you inagine the horror of a sufficiently large lead-acid battery array to store the UK's energy requirements for a day?), while pumped water / hydroelectric storage is limited in scope because the potenitally suitable sites are in the wrong parts of the country.

Nuclear: well, permission has now been given for Hinkley C (at least 4 years since EDF started design work), but that won't come on line for another decade. Also, nuclear fission reactors are very good for providing baseload power (i.e. the constant demand used 24/7) but are not that responsive at responding to sudden demand spikes, whereas fossil fuel power stations (in particular combined cycle gas turbines) offer better responsiveness and fuel efficiency.

I know the above is somewhat peripheral to the issues with the Big 6 energy suppliers essentially acting as a cartel, but it was intended only to provide some background into the situation that is present in the marketplace.

Milliband's price freeze will lead to one thing - a renationalisation of power supply. Remember the Big 6 are all foreign owned, and the UK market is only one of several they are operating in; if they aren't making money here they'll simply walk away. Now whether that is a bad or a good thing is a matter of personal and political opinion.

[TopHat24/7]

Great post, thanks Dummy, really interesting read.

[Lumbering_Jack]

Anyone see watchdog on Wednesday?

The interview the energy minister (?) gave was awful. He's introducing a competition audit (or something similar). What does this crap actually mean, it is all just words and doesn't tell me anything. Give me cold hard facts I can work with, not fancy statements that mean Frak all.

[dummy_half]

Anyone see watchdog on Wednesday?

The interview the energy minister (?) gave was awful. He's introducing a competition audit (or something similar). What does this crap actually mean, it is all just words and doesn't tell me anything. Give me cold hard facts I can work with, not fancy statements that mean Frak all.

LJ
And in that statemetn you have covered much of what is wrong with politics in Britain at the moment.It's all about style and communication, not actually about achieving what is needed (which in this case is secure energy at affordable prices).

[Champagne_Socialist]

An estimated 31,100 excess winter deaths occurred in 2012-13 - a 29% increase on the previous winter.

The Office for National Statistics data, which compares deaths in winter months with averages in other seasons, shows most of the deaths involved people over 75.

excess winter deaths are linked to low temperatures,

The charity Age UK said the figures were "shameful" and urged the government to lower energy bills so that those who are most vulnerable - the frail and elderly - can keep their homes warm during winter.

The energy regulator Ofgem has criticised the profit margins of the big gas and electricity suppliers.

Age UK's director Caroline Abrahams, said: "Excess winter deaths are preventable and today's figures are a damning indictment of our failure to address the scandal of cold homes in this country

[TopHat24/7]

Hard to trust someone with such a vested interest, especially when fluffy terms like 'linked' are used, i.e. no proven causality.

Either way it doesn't paint a good picture. That said, I didn't think the winter fuel allowance had been scrapped?

[Champagne_Socialist]

"Struggle to stay warm"

Don't be so dramatic. People need to take a long hard look at themselves instead of blaming others.

Last January, an 87 year old man who lived not three streets away from me was found dead in a chair at his house. The cause of death was hypothermia.

It was reported that, on checking, the heating system in his house was fully operational. It simply hadn't been put on. Apparently, he had an outstanding bill from his dual fuel provider that hadn't been paid.

I don't know whether he blamed anybody else for his situation, but I do know that he died from the cold.

So no, let's not get dramatic about people dying. What does it matter to you? I'm sure you're nice and warm.

What does that prove? The energy companies have stated they will not cut you off, you just need to ring them and let them know you're struggling. I can't comment for this old fella, but it was certainly an avoidable death had he or a family member taken the required steps to address it.

People don't have money, I get that, but they won't be going cold this winter because if it, unless they make that choice themselves.

Comments by Lumbering_Jack are very worrying especially when over 30,000 elderly people die each year in their homes due to the cold.

[Duty281]

The government can't lower bills because they are in control of global energy prices.

[ShahenshahG]

Perhaps - but they can also build their own nuclear reactor - then charge a reasonable price - forcing the big 6 to follow suit. Not complete nationalizationbut the mere threat of it - just provide enugh of your own that energy companies are wary of alienating the government and are forced to be competitive rather than bumming each other and supplying Poopie at an inflated price. Same with Water/Gas/Insurance. Stop allowing these thieving bar stewards to show figures how fraud is driving the prices up and then use the same figures to put the prices up of people who had a no fault accident. Nationalize accountancy to void the tax gap and thats about it.

[Champagne_Socialist]

Nationalize accountancy to void the tax gap and thats about it.

We have a problem with tax in this country. The government hire the massive accountancy firms to create the government's tax laws. those same massive accountancy firms are then hired by massive businesses to advise them of uk taxation law (and what the tax holes are).

[TopHat24/7]

Nationalize accountancy to void the tax gap and thats about it.

We have a problem with tax in this country. The government hire the massive accountancy firms to create the government's tax laws. those same massive accountancy firms are then hired by massive businesses to advise them of uk taxation law (and what the tax holes are).

                 

[ShahenshahG]

Poor show toppy - shouldn't point it out!

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