The Hamilton vs Paice fight! *ding* *ding*

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Post by nathan on Mon 07 May 2012, 10:26 am

Did anyone see it? a fair few players just lost it. Do you think if we had ban's based on matches instead of weeks, this wouldn't of happened? perhaps the players were thinking the ban will only affect the off season anyway so just got stuck in.

On a side note, check out the L. Irish number 8 around the 1:20 minute mark. Twinkle toes or what! lol


Here's the video > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Exd7nqV5-cE

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Post by AsLongAsBut100ofUs on Mon 07 May 2012, 10:46 am

nathan wrote:Did anyone see it? a fair few players just lost it. Do you think if we had ban's based on matches instead of weeks, this wouldn't of happened? perhaps the players were thinking the ban will only affect the off season anyway so just got stuck in.

On a side note, check out the L. Irish number 8 around the 1:20 minute mark. Twinkle toes or what! lol


Here's the video > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Exd7nqV5-cE
Yup, decent bans for Hamilton and Paice pls, and even tho Treviranus can handle himself, he gets one too

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Post by thebluesmancometh on Mon 07 May 2012, 11:29 am

Trev is an absolute coward, add L.Irish 11 to that too, throwing numerous cheap shots to Hamilton, then someone who tries to break them up gets one without blindsided, then runs for his life, L.Irish 11 then hits one from behind before retreating as quickly as Trev does...

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Post by AsLongAsBut100ofUs on Mon 07 May 2012, 11:34 am

thebluesmancometh wrote:Trev is an absolute coward, add L.Irish 11 to that too, throwing numerous cheap shots to Hamilton, then someone who tries to break them up gets one without blindsided, then runs for his life, L.Irish 11 then hits one from behind before retreating as quickly as Trev does...
Looks like Tagicakibau?

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Post by thebluesmancometh on Mon 07 May 2012, 11:46 am

ye Tagi.

If you rewatch it he he's hitting someone facing the other way before he clocks a SH from behind, they both retreat 20 yards after though Laugh

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Post by EnglishReign on Mon 07 May 2012, 2:33 pm

Hamilton has been a liability all season, but I don't think he did an awful lot wrong in this instance.

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 07 May 2012, 2:45 pm

EnglishReign wrote:Hamilton has been a liability all season, but I don't think he did an awful lot wrong in this instance.

Really? I read that he smacked Paice in the face twice while they were walking off to the sinbin

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 07 May 2012, 2:48 pm

Ok just watched the tape. Hamilton did a lot wrong.

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Post by EnglishReign on Mon 07 May 2012, 2:54 pm

Yeah, you make it sound like Paice is an angel. Jim was walking off calmly enough after being sin binned (despite being the one pounced on by Paice originally) and Paice then went in for afters, was he meant to just stand and take a hit?!

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Post by Londonirishollie on Mon 07 May 2012, 3:05 pm

EnglishReign wrote:Hamilton has been a liability all season, but I don't think he did an awful lot wrong in this instance.

Are you being serious???
He unloaded on Paice when they were walking off.

Paice may have said something but how old are we?? He called me (insert name) and gave me the slightest of pushes first, thats why i punched him in the face twice before he even had a chance to defend himself. Doh

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 07 May 2012, 3:08 pm

EnglishReign wrote:Yeah, you make it sound like Paice is an angel. Jim was walking off calmly enough after being sin binned (despite being the one pounced on by Paice originally) and Paice then went in for afters, was he meant to just stand and take a hit?!

I am not defending Paice at all. both deserve good sized bans.

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Post by thebluesmancometh on Mon 07 May 2012, 3:14 pm

both deserved what they got, dirty push on Paice initially but he really shouldve let that go, Hamilton was waiting for him at that first tackle, and Paice went straight for him. Followed by handbags, but I will say it's Paice who wouldn't let it go on the way off, he talked, then talked again, and as Hamilton turned both Paices hands were up to push Hamilton who IMO tought Paice a bit of a lesson, don't act aggressive without following through.

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Post by George Carlin on Mon 07 May 2012, 3:43 pm

And some people still wonder why Big Jim has been precisely nowhere near the Scotland captain's armband.

That's why.
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Post by Majestic83 on Mon 07 May 2012, 4:10 pm

Hamilton shouldn't have lost his discipline and thrown the punches but Paice deserved it. He initiated it at the ruck and then when walking off he obviously said something to Hamilton and then grabbed him. Paice is a disgrace in my view and the other two london irish players that have been mentioned the 8 and 11 aren't far behind him and should hopefully receive long bans too.
Not the first time London Irish players have thrown cheap shots at opposing teams!

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Post by Artful_Dodger on Mon 07 May 2012, 4:39 pm

Thought when I first seen this the London Irish number 8 should possibly get the longest ban here - coward.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Mon 07 May 2012, 5:05 pm

What a pair of idiots. I hope they throw the book at the pair of them. It's one thing to get involved in a silly bit of fisty cuffs in the heat of the moment and cop a yc but then to brawl like a couple of drunken yobs as you leave the field just makes the sport look bad.

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Post by nathan on Mon 07 May 2012, 7:47 pm

I have no idea why people defending Hamilton, they should both be getting time off.

I find it strange that hardly anyone defended youngs when he retaliated, but are defending Hamilton here.

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Post by flankertye on Mon 07 May 2012, 7:48 pm

christ. Some bans are gonna be handed out! I think hamilton and the london irish 8 are in the wrong sport

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Post by PJHolybloke on Mon 07 May 2012, 8:12 pm

Hamilton and Tagicakibau will get the biggest penalties I think, nasty Judas punch from Tagi that dropped the number 18.

Not a good image from the only game that had nothing riding on it.
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Post by mpc28 on Mon 07 May 2012, 8:36 pm

Why 2 players who have just been sin binned for fighting each other are allowed walk off the field together is beyond me.

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Post by doctor_grey on Mon 07 May 2012, 8:44 pm

mpc28 wrote:Why 2 players who have just been sin binned for fighting each other are allowed walk off the field together is beyond me.
Good point! Mind boggling, that.

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Post by nathan on Mon 07 May 2012, 8:51 pm

mpc28 wrote:Why 2 players who have just been sin binned for fighting each other are allowed walk off the field together is beyond me.

I can see what your saying, but I dont think I've ever seen 2 players walk of seperately.

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Post by Majestic83 on Mon 07 May 2012, 8:52 pm

Yeah the ref handled it badly and should have made one leave the field first then let the other one go, been a few incidents like that in the aussie rugby league recently

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Post by jeffwinger on Mon 07 May 2012, 9:43 pm

London Irish coach Brian Smith laid the full blame with Jim Hamilton, branding him a 'disgrace' among other things. I'm not saying Hamilton was at all innocent but surely David Paice was equally culpable, if not more so. We don't want Rugby coaches going all 'Arsene Wenger' on us now do we?

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Post by Majestic83 on Mon 07 May 2012, 9:45 pm

Yeah i would say more of the blame was with Paice, he instigated it at the ruck and then didn't let it go when walking off the pitch, Hamilton should have kept his cool but when someone grabs you like that it is hard to keep your cool.
London Irish have been playing pretty dirty all season so their coach has a bit of a cheek to start mouthing off about other players and teams.

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Post by Londonirishollie on Mon 07 May 2012, 11:13 pm

Paice and Hamilton will both get bans.

The Tigers-Saints brawl saw only two players cited for punching (A.Tuilagi and Wood) which were both automatic because of red cards. They both received no further punishment. Murphy, Agulla and others got away with it without even being cited.

This means if the RFU, do not treat Irish and Glaws in the same way and players other than Hamilton and Paice are cited, it is clearly about what club you are from rather than the offence committed. As the least we can expect is consistency throughout the season therefore no other player will be cited. (I fully beleive more should be banned but as the RFU citing procedure is completley fair we cannot expect any other result.)


I don't think Pearson handled it well at all. He should have sent both teams away, and then called the captains over with the players (by which time they may have calmed down) and then shown the yellow cards. But then how was he meant to know Hamilton would lose his head because of a couple of words and a slight push.


The thing that made it even more stupid was that it wasn't a game that meant a great deal, and Irish were already miles ahead at the time (maybe thats why Hamilton was wound up??). BTW i'm not suggesting Paice is an angel but out of the two to me it is clear for the red card incident Hamilton is to blame.

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Post by Majestic83 on Mon 07 May 2012, 11:21 pm

I think you have your green tinted spectacles on, how can you lay the blame at purely at Jim Hamilton. Paice was the one who through the first punches at the ruck when clearing hamilton out.
Hamilton was walking off without even looking at paice when paice carried it on with verbals and was the first one to grab at Hamilton.
Hamilton should have kept his cool but i think it's pretty clear Paice started it and is more to blame for the whole incident.

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Post by Londonirishollie on Tue 08 May 2012, 12:17 am

Hamilton's off the ball push was what led to the first incident. And then the first incident was no more than a bit of handbags, in which both players threw a couple of pathtic punches while holding each other. For me handbags between two players is not a massive deal. Especially tight 5 forwards need to have a bit of aggression BUT there is a massive difference between the first incident which Paice possibly started and the red card incident which Hamilton started because a few verbals and a slight push - which is what it was not a "grab" (the type you see thousands of in a season) does not give Hamilton the right to start unloading punches. If an experienced forward can't take a couple of verbals they're in the wrong game.

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Post by Majestic83 on Tue 08 May 2012, 12:25 am

Hamilton didn't start the red card incident, Paice was giving verbals too him, hamilton turned round to him and then Paice grabbed his shirt which Hamilton then reacted too.
Paice is the instigator in the whole melee and for me and many others who have seen the incident is the one who is in the wrong the most. When you get sin binned you walk off and keep your mouth shut, you don't start carrying on like some loud mouth trying to continue it.
Yes Hamilton should have kept the head but Paice started it and is at fault and the behaviour of the rest of the London Irish team doesn't make them look too good.

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Post by bsando on Tue 08 May 2012, 12:32 am

Majestic83 wrote:I think you have your green tinted spectacles on, how can you lay the blame at purely at Jim Hamilton. Paice was the one who through the first punches at the ruck when clearing hamilton out.
Hamilton was walking off without even looking at paice when paice carried it on with verbals and was the first one to grab at Hamilton.
Hamilton should have kept his cool but i think it's pretty clear Paice started it and is more to blame for the whole incident.

Well said mate! Rugby is a high intensity sport, when the adrenaline is pumping there's always going to be incidents like this. Hamilton wasn't looking for trouble but when it came looking for him he wasn't gonna put up with that s**t! Good on him I say Wink

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Post by Londonirishollie on Tue 08 May 2012, 12:59 am

I am not condoning the behaviour of the Irish team and admit is does not look good. But lets get the facts straight.

Watch the clip posted above.

Paice gives Hamilton a slight push, and does not grab his shirt. When Hamilton throws his first punch Paice's hand is not on Hamilton. This is because it was a push not a grab.

Paice's actions are not what started the red card incident. Hamilton throwing the punches is what started that incident. Verbals happen all the time in matches. If we saw a reaction like Hamilton's every time they occured it would be a free for all, all the time. If you want to watch that watch cage fighting or something.

Rugby is a high intensity sport i agree, but surely that excuses the verbals more. Verbals are away of venting frustrating without doing more damage. Hamilton should have said something back or just walked off.

For me Hamilton is far more guilty than Paice. I'm interested to see what the sanctions are on Thursday. Neither have good reputations to fall back on, both will plead guilty if they have any sense so when Blacketthas the full story and decides their bans they will be comparable. It wouldn't surprise me if both got the same amount of time, but for me that would be a cop out.

Don't get me wrong both will get lengthy bans but should be back for the start of the domestic season. Where both clubs will hope for a better showing considering the poor levels of performance shown all season long.

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Post by mckay1402 on Tue 08 May 2012, 1:10 am

Cracking punches from Jim though. maybe a match up with tuilagu on the cards
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Post by robbo277 on Tue 08 May 2012, 6:52 am

Paice might have toured with England this summer, Hamilton would have surely toured with Scotland so it's very silly for these two to get involved in all this.

The thing that will count against them (as opposed to the Tigers/Saints brawl) is that they went at it, the incident stopped and they both got binned. Then it started up again. It wasn't a flash moment and then it was over, the two players went back in for more and could therefore see longer bans.

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Post by Majestic83 on Tue 08 May 2012, 7:47 am

Londonirishollie wrote:I am not condoning the behaviour of the Irish team and admit is does not look good. But lets get the facts straight.

Watch the clip posted above.

Paice gives Hamilton a slight push, and does not grab his shirt. When Hamilton throws his first punch Paice's hand is not on Hamilton. This is because it was a push not a grab.

Paice's actions are not what started the red card incident. Hamilton throwing the punches is what started that incident. Verbals happen all the time in matches. If we saw a reaction like Hamilton's every time they occured it would be a free for all, all the time. If you want to watch that watch cage fighting or something.

Rugby is a high intensity sport i agree, but surely that excuses the verbals more. Verbals are away of venting frustrating without doing more damage. Hamilton should have said something back or just walked off.

For me Hamilton is far more guilty than Paice. I'm interested to see what the sanctions are on Thursday. Neither have good reputations to fall back on, both will plead guilty if they have any sense so when Blacketthas the full story and decides their bans they will be comparable. It wouldn't surprise me if both got the same amount of time, but for me that would be a cop out.

Don't get me wrong both will get lengthy bans but should be back for the start of the domestic season. Where both clubs will hope for a better showing considering the poor levels of performance shown all season long.

I've watched the clip a good 4 or 5 times and I think what you are seeing in regards to paice is a little different from what most others are seeing.
It was quite clearly a grab to and even if it was a push if you have just been in a scrap with someone and then they move their arm at you like that with the aggression that paice had then of course you are going to react and defend yourself.
I am not a supporter of either Gloucester or London Irish so am pretty neutral but for me Paice is definitely the one is at fault, just because he has come of worse from the punches it doesn't make him less guilty.
They should both get bans along with a couple of other london irish players and the guy who was carrying the water bottles as he should not have been involved!

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Post by EnglishReign on Tue 08 May 2012, 8:51 am

Both deserved red, all I meant was I don't think any of us would've reacted much differently to how Jim did. Paice should've let it go.

Like I said earlier, Hamilton has been a liability. He concedes penalties like it's going out of fashion, but I think drawing the conclusion "Hamilton unloaded on Paice as they walked to the sin bin" after watching that video is incredibly unfair and misleading.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Tue 08 May 2012, 9:40 am

Like I said earlier, Hamilton has been a liability.

As well as one of Glaws and Scotlands best players. If you're going to be an enforcer then every now and then you're going to concede a penalty or two. The punching after the YC was just plain moronic though and I agree with Robbo that longer bans should be enforced because of the continuation after the ref had dealt with the incident.

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Post by HongKongCherry on Tue 08 May 2012, 10:51 am

Nothing but idiocy from both players. The yellow was fair enough, but if Hamilton had been able to restrain himself when Paice went for afters it is highly likely Glaws would have ended up with numerical advantage for the rest of the game which we sorely needed.

But... exactly as Sam says we want Big Jim to be an enforcer so you have to take the rough with the smooth. Glaws fans loved Azam's approach, but we had to take that with his cards and comical dives!

On a very selfish club front, at least Big Jim will be able to get a rest this summer as there is no way he'll be playing. The question is whether the ban will eat into next season? Whatever the ban Paice needs to receive exactly the same. Tagi needs to get a decent ban for a very cheap shot.

Finally, I've lost a lot of respect for Brian Smith with his vitriol about Big Jim. Jim's behaviour was unacceptable, especially as our captain, but let's not get confused Paice was equally to blame. As jeffwinger says, let's not have this type of bollards in the game. They were both idiots and were unacceptable.
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Post by bathmad on Tue 08 May 2012, 11:42 am

Decent little short jabs from Hamilton. Paice is and has always been a c*nt anyway..

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Post by bluestonevedder on Tue 08 May 2012, 11:55 am

Pathetic from both to be honest. Hamilton always plays his game on the fringes anyway, so it was just a matter of time before someone with a short temper rose to it. There was no need for Hamilton's push on him initially, but Pace's reaction was inexcusable.

For me though, the most shocking part of it is the LI no. 8. What an absolute coward. Do these Pacific Islanders think that this is acceptable behaviour or something? Laid out the Gloucester 18 who was coming in to calm it down. Shocking behaviour, and I think he should be banned for just as long as Hamilton and Pace.

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Post by Morgannwg on Tue 08 May 2012, 12:38 pm

Love it.
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Post by formerly known as Sam on Tue 08 May 2012, 1:25 pm

For me though, the most shocking part of it is the LI no. 8. What an absolute coward. Do these Pacific Islanders think that this is acceptable behaviour or something? Laid out the Gloucester 18 who was coming in to calm it down. Shocking behaviour, and I think he should be banned for just as long as Hamilton and Pace.

He was embroiled in a bit of fisty cuffs with another Gloucester player and was then grabbed and swung as a reaction. The red mist had descended and he was no doubt expecting a punch given that he was in a melee. Inexcusable but it's certainly no worse than what 20 odd other players were doing. The number 18 only goes down because he's chasing the big 8 looking for some retribution.

I'll take a wild guess and say that the two red cards will get 8 weeks each and no one else will be cited.

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Post by bluestonevedder on Tue 08 May 2012, 1:31 pm

The 'other Gloucester player' he was 'fighting' was Hamilton, who was being held down and couldn't do anything. That's absolute cowardice. The Gloucester 18 puts his hand out to stop him and calm everything down, and the 8 swings at him. To me, that's just thuggery.

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Tue 08 May 2012, 1:39 pm

Such a shame for us Scots because Hamilton seemed to have been channeling his efforts on the pitch alot more recently. In prior years he's been slightly unfit and guilty of ill-discipline, but this and last season he's started focusing more on his game, and to my mind has become an extremely effective and powerful player.

We could have used his power against Australia in the summer. The back-up options are considerably below his abilities.

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Post by Effervescing Elephant on Tue 08 May 2012, 4:22 pm

Tell you who should be banned, the commentator who was on the highlights show. Never heard Tagicakibau so badly pronounced: ' Tadji-ka-kibow!', buffoon!
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Post by Ulsterexile on Tue 08 May 2012, 6:45 pm

It will be interesting to see how many punishments are handed out after they sort this one out.
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Post by Londonirishollie on Tue 08 May 2012, 6:54 pm

[quote="formerly known as Sam"]
I'll take a wild guess and say that the two red cards will get 8 weeks each and no one else will be cited.

Anything else and Irish and Glaws have cause for complaint because of the Saints - TIgers game and the precedent set.
BUT i wouldn't be bothered if Paice and Hamilton got 8 weeks, and a couple of other received shorter bans. The RFU really need to clamp down on this. The fact is these players are role models when on the pitch, seeing a 30 man brawl does not help the games reputation.

More stupidly is Hamilton was a definite tourist for Scotland and with England's hooker problems Paice couldn't have been far away from touring especially as a big sqaud is being brought to SA and they through that chance away because of a stupid 2 minutes in a game that in terms of meaningful league position (heineken qualification/playoffs/relegation) was a complete dead rubber.

Utter stupidity from BOTH of them.

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Post by EnglishReign on Tue 08 May 2012, 6:55 pm

Thing is none were handed out for a brawl nearly as bad, between Bath and Glaws.

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Post by PJHolybloke on Tue 08 May 2012, 8:29 pm

Bath and Glaws is different though ER - if they're not fighting, they're not trying.

I've watched it again after reading some of the comments above and still can't see what some others have seen.

Hamilton starts the beef with Paice by shoving him in the back off the ball at about the same time Armitage passes the ball out to Tagicakibau on the counter, Paice then goes through the tackle area at the next breakdown and shoves Hamilton in the chest, Hamilton reacts and throws a couple of iffy punches and Paice does the same.

On the way off the pitch Paice is clearly gobbing off at Hamilton and Hamilton grabs Paice and gets two good right-handers in whilst he has a left hand full of Paice's shirt.

Paice retaliates and then it goes into a bit of a free for all, during which Tagicakibau gets a blindside dig in on Lewis (9) and Treviranus lets loose with a couple of punches into the general melee.

Knight (18) comes in to stop some of the blindside action and Treviranus lets go with a couple of shots that appear to pretty much miss as he's back-peddling, Knight tries to retaliate with a swing but Tagicakibau drops him from behind with a right hand, Lewis then falls over Knight and the whole thing breaks up.

Hamilton and Tagicakibau are still the worst perpetrators for me, followed by Treviranus and finally Paice, I can't see the first 2 getting away without bans - 6 weeks maybe? But I would not be surpised if Treviranus and Paice get 2-4 weeks or nothing at all - it's a bit of an RFU lottery when it comes to fisticuffs.
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Post by HongKongCherry on Thu 10 May 2012, 2:01 pm

7 weeks each it is then.

I appreciate they will both miss tours they were likely to go on, but neither ban effects the team for which they were playing at the time. On one side I'm pleased, but surely the system needs to be looked at?
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Post by formerly known as Sam on Thu 10 May 2012, 2:04 pm

I appreciate they will both miss tours they were likely to go on, but neither ban effects the team for which they were playing at the time. On one side I'm pleased, but surely the system needs to be looked at?

It has dented Hamilton's international aspirations and means he will lose out on international appearence money. For Paice it has pretty much ended any hope of furthering his international career. Sounds fair.

7 weeks a piece, I wasn't far off with my guess of 8.

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