My Lions 2013 XV pre summer tour.

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Post by robshaw4england on Fri 01 Jun 2012, 12:20 pm

First topic message reminder :

This would be my Lions XV based on this seasons performances both domestically and at the international level, and in some cases on their sheer class. (e.g. BOD)

A.Team

15. R.Kearney (Ire)
14. G.North (Wal)
13. B.O'Driscoll (Ire)
12. J.Roberts (Wal)
11. T.Visser (Sco)
10. J.Sexton (Ire)
09. M.Phillips (Wal)

08. T.Faletau (Wal)
07. S.Warburton (Wal)
06. C.Robshaw (Eng)
05. P.O'Connell (Ire)
04. R.Gray (Sco)
03. D.Cole (Eng)
02. D.Hartley (Eng)
01. G.Jenkins (Wal)

B.Team

15. B.Foden (Eng)
14. L.Halfpenny (Wal)
13. M.Tuilagi (Eng)
12. J.Davies (Wal)
11. T.Bowe (Ire)
10. R.Priestland (Wal)
09. D.Care (Eng)

08. S.O'Brien (Ire)
07. J.Tipuric (Wal)
06. S.Ferris (Ire)
05. G.Parling (Eng)
04. I.Evans (Wal)
03. A.Jones (Wal)
02. R.Ford (Sco)
01. C.Healy (Ire)

Obviously some controversial decisions, but that's my opinion. Thoughts?

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Post by Sgt_Pooly on Fri 01 Jun 2012, 10:45 pm

I find them extremely tedious and a waste of a thread. We seem to have a Lions team discussion almost weekly, would it not be easier to combine them all and call it - Pointless Lions selection debate

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Post by Rory_Gallagher on Fri 01 Jun 2012, 10:48 pm

I can't think of who to pick right now, because there are going to be some real battles coming up nearer the time. I think there will also be a few players nobody has mentioned yet, or no one will expect. O'Mahony is one who comes to mind.

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Post by thomh on Sat 02 Jun 2012, 12:36 am

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I find them extremely tedious and a waste of a thread. We seem to have a Lions team discussion almost weekly, would it not be easier to combine them all and call it - Pointless Lions selection debate

Well then you're perfectly free to not read and comment on them. It's perfectly clear what the thread is from the title. There's plenty of threads on here that I have no interest in. I just don't comment on them.

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Post by cardiffcider on Sat 02 Jun 2012, 5:39 am

My Lions 2013 XV pre summer tour.

Post by robshaw4england Yesterday at 12:20
This would be my Lions XV based on this seasons performances both domestically and at the international level, and in some cases on their sheer class. (e.g. BOD)

A.Team

15. R.Kearney (Ire)
14. G.North (Wal)
13. B.O'Driscoll (Ire)
12. J.Roberts (Wal)
11. T.bowe (scot0
10. J.Sexton (Ire)
09. M.Phillips (Wal)

08. T.Faletau (Wal)
07. S.Warburton (Wal) CAPT
06. d.lydate (wal)
05. P.O'Connell (Ire)
04. R.Gray (Sco)
03. a.W.jones )wal)
02. m rees (wal)
01. c healey (ire)

B.Team

15. J.HOOK (WALES )
14. L.Halfpenny (Wal)
13. M.Tuilagi (Eng)
12. J.Davies (Wal)
11. TA CUTHBURT WALES
10. R.Priestland (Wal)
09. L.WILLIAMS WALES
08. S.O'Brien (Ire) CAPT
07. J.Tipuric (Wal)
06. S.Ferris (Ire)
05. IAN EVANS WALES
04. L.CHARTERIS WALES
03. COLE ENGLAND
02. R.Ford (Sco)
01. G JENKINS (WALES

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Post by BigTrevsbigmac on Sat 02 Jun 2012, 7:56 am

cardiffcider wrote:My Lions 2013 XV pre summer tour.

Post by robshaw4england Yesterday at 12:20
This would be my Lions XV based on this seasons performances both domestically and at the international level, and in some cases on their sheer class. (e.g. BOD)

A.Team

15. R.Kearney (Ire)
14. G.North (Wal)
13. B.O'Driscoll (Ire)
12. J.Roberts (Wal)
11. T.bowe (scot0
10. J.Sexton (Ire)
09. M.Phillips (Wal)

08. T.Faletau (Wal)
07. S.Warburton (Wal) CAPT
06. d.lydate (wal)
05. P.O'Connell (Ire)
04. R.Gray (Sco)
03. a.W.jones )wal)
02. m rees (wal)
01. c healey (ire)

B.Team

15. J.HOOK (WALES )
14. L.Halfpenny (Wal)
13. M.Tuilagi (Eng)
12. J.Davies (Wal)
11. TA CUTHBURT WALES
10. R.Priestland (Wal)
09. L.WILLIAMS WALES
08. S.O'Brien (Ire) CAPT
07. J.Tipuric (Wal)
06. S.Ferris (Ire)
05. IAN EVANS WALES
04. L.CHARTERIS WALES
03. COLE ENGLAND
02. R.Ford (Sco)
01. G JENKINS (WALES

Clearly still under the influence of the apple juice.
Sergeant Pooley is right these threads descend into nonsense.






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Post by Chjw131 on Sat 02 Jun 2012, 1:28 pm

thomh wrote:Chjw131

Fair response, but a couple of points on that:

Firstly, we didn't really blow them off the park. They could have won it with a late penalty in front of the posts, and we benefited from a really strong set piece platform that day. Australia's scrum has improved since then so we can't necessarily rely on such great front-foot ball. I generally like centre partnerships to have one big carrier in them just for balance's sake, and if someone like roberts or tuilagi can tie in two or three defenders it gives your players like davies and o'driscoll a great position on second and third phase.

The second is your point about Tindall and Easter. Payne dominated the scrum on that tour, so not really fair to talk about him as a weak link in that context. Tindall and Easter, as much as people like to have a go at them, are big guys who can carry well in traffic. Surely the success we had with them in the team is actually evidence in favour of my point about having a big guy in the centres?

I don't see that aiming to overpower Australia is negative. I wasn't suggesting that we play 10 man rugby at all - just have a look at the team I selected near the top of the thread - but just that having big backs can be a big factor in outplaying sides.

Some fair points, and i'm not suggesting we don't have any physical balance in the midfield. JD2 is a pretty good carrier as well.

The OZ game I was referring to however, was the AI of 2010 when we did truly blow them off the park. There's nothing wrong with advocating a physical centre such as Tuilagi or Roberts, but my impression was that you were suggesting we don't play OZ at their own game.

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Post by 123456789 on Sat 02 Jun 2012, 7:47 pm

My team:
15. Kearney
14. North
13. Tuilagi
12. Roberts
11. Ashton
10. Sexton
9. Youngs
8. Denton
7. Warburton
6. Ferris
5. O'Connell
4. Gray
3. Jones
2. Ford
1. Jenkins

4 Irish
3 Scottish
4 English
5 Welsh

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Post by Seagultaf on Sat 02 Jun 2012, 9:46 pm

monwy wrote:The World Cup was last year though, my post doesn't dispute he was on form then, it's talking about his form since then. It was more than just defences focussing on him, he simply wasn't performing to the same standard as last year.

He played 12 games for Scarlets this season without scoring. Compare that to Bowe, who scored 5 tries in 13 games for Ospreys or Cuthbert who scored 13 tries in 18 games for Cardiff.

North may well get back to the form he showed in his first year, it would be great if he does, but there has definitely been a drop that he needs to return from before being nailed on as a starter, and at present other players are putting their hands up higher.

We will have to agree to disagree on this. In my eyes, whilst North has not been scoring for the Scarlets, he was excellent for Wales in the 6N. He was most peoples MOM against Ireland, game saving tackle against England and looked great against Scotland before getting injured.

His indifferent Scarlets form is probably due to the fact that he rarely plays. According to the Scarlets web site, he only started 4 games out of 22 in the Rabo. He also came on as sub in three games including 10 minutes against Cardiff during which he went straight through Cuthbert to set up a bonus point try.

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Post by wales606 on Sat 02 Jun 2012, 11:57 pm

Seagultaf wrote:
monwy wrote:The World Cup was last year though, my post doesn't dispute he was on form then, it's talking about his form since then. It was more than just defences focussing on him, he simply wasn't performing to the same standard as last year.

He played 12 games for Scarlets this season without scoring. Compare that to Bowe, who scored 5 tries in 13 games for Ospreys or Cuthbert who scored 13 tries in 18 games for Cardiff.

North may well get back to the form he showed in his first year, it would be great if he does, but there has definitely been a drop that he needs to return from before being nailed on as a starter, and at present other players are putting their hands up higher.

We will have to agree to disagree on this. In my eyes, whilst North has not been scoring for the Scarlets, he was excellent for Wales in the 6N. He was most peoples MOM against Ireland, game saving tackle against England and looked great against Scotland before getting injured.

His indifferent Scarlets form is probably due to the fact that he rarely plays. According to the Scarlets web site, he only started 4 games out of 22 in the Rabo. He also came on as sub in three games including 10 minutes against Cardiff during which he went straight through Cuthbert to set up a bonus point try.

Cuthbert did show his inexperience and was completely outshone by North at regional level

I was at the France game, and the simple fact is that North was not used in the attack - and the passes went down Cuthbert channel and Cuthbert was the one coming in field to take runs (North stayed mostly on his wing - it must have been their gameplan to just North to fix the wide defence and have Cuthbert make the runs.) - So with Cuthbert getting all the ball, he looked the best winger - but when they come head-to-head, North is the more complete player.

Im sure as Wales try different attacking patterns in Aus, we will see North used again (as he was used effectively vs Ireland during Cuthbert's second cap)
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Post by Rava on Sun 03 Jun 2012, 12:02 am

Sorry I thought I was into a Lions discussion but I've stumbled into another Welsh debate.
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Post by slartibartfast on Sun 03 Jun 2012, 12:27 am

A dose of painful medicine ....

Am I the only one that doesn't "rate" Kearney?

For every high ball he catches there's two where he times it wrong, people only seem to remember the good takes. If you're going on form he was absent against Ospreys. Byrne is by far the better defensive tackler.

On which rugby planet wouldn't you pick Adam Jones? He's the first on the team sheet.

Here's a crazy one for you (just in case you thought i was some crazy welsh biased poster) - Toby flood will be lions 10

You read it here first!

I also like no one mentions Ryan jones ! The guy is on fire!

Anyone who thinks BOD will be 13 come test time will be the same ones who thought Tindall was England's best centre pre world cup. Manu will be outside centre.

So...

1. Gethin Jenkins
2. Best
3. Adam jones
4. Charteris
5. Hmmm
6. Dan lydiate - based on form
7. Warbs
8. Morgan
9. Phillips
10. Flood (why sexton? Perhaps I need to watch more Leinster videos, but we are talking international here and unfortunately Ireland form hasnt been up there, and sexton keeps getting replaced by O'gara, so something's not right)
11. North
12. Roberts
13. Tualagie
14. Ashton
15. Byrne




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Post by wales606 on Sun 03 Jun 2012, 12:28 am

Rava wrote:Sorry I thought I was into a Lions discussion but I've stumbled into another Welsh debate.

My Lions 2013 XV pre summer tour. - Page 2 Brown%5E_%5Earial%5E_%5E0%5E_%5E0%5E_%5EThere Everywhere!!!%5E_%5E

Im fairly sure Rory started another one on the SA team announcement thread - about the Irish and Welsh backrow (and backrows in general to be fair)
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Post by Rory_Gallagher on Sun 03 Jun 2012, 12:31 am

Hey, don't blame me. I said that Coetzee and Alberts would form a great flanking partnership and you disagreed, as a specialist 7 is needed apparently. I'm not blaming you for disagreeing btw, I like the discussion. Very Happy

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Post by slartibartfast on Sun 03 Jun 2012, 12:32 am

Rava wrote:Sorry I thought I was into a Lions discussion but I've stumbled into another Welsh debate.

They are discussing North, the lions winger - sorry he just happens to be welsh. You just have to live with us I'm afraid.

Xenophobes.
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Post by slartibartfast on Sun 03 Jun 2012, 12:36 am

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I find them extremely tedious and a waste of a thread. We seem to have a Lions team discussion almost weekly, would it not be easier to combine them all and call it - Pointless Lions selection debate

You may get us to conform, but you'll never stop us dreaming!
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Post by wales606 on Sun 03 Jun 2012, 12:39 am

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Hey, don't blame me. I said that Coetzee and Alberts would form a great flanking partnership and you disagreed, as a specialist 7 is needed apparently. I'm not blaming you for disagreeing btw, I like the discussion. Very Happy

Its an interesting discussion.

There is no definitive answer, but recently the game does seem to be favouring the side with the true 7s rather than the 6.5s. Warburton and McCaw are different to Brussow, Pocock, Tipuric and Rennie - But they are all out and out 7s (just the difference between the link-man/fetcher role that has been typified by Martyn Williams for the last decade and the tougher, grappler role typified by McCaw for the last decade. But both types at true 7s.

Whereas SOB and Robshaw are really 6.5s and not true 7s.

Dusatoir is a bit of an odd one, but I would describe him as a true 7 is a slightly modified McCaw style (the Dusatoir style that only he is playing at the moment) - it is playing to his strengths and is probably a more all-rounder style than even McCaw has managed.
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Post by aucklandlaurie on Sun 03 Jun 2012, 12:43 am

I dont mean to sound condescending, but how can you guys be so into the Lions in a years time? when youve got a treasure trove of International rugby coming up before we see July (this year).

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Post by wales606 on Sun 03 Jun 2012, 12:47 am

aucklandlaurie wrote: I dont mean to sound condescending, but how can you guys be so into the Lions in a years time? when youve got a treasure trove of International rugby coming up before we see July (this year).

There is a Lions discussion ever few months.

It is not really an actually Lions discussion until a week before the team announcement.

It is more just a comparison of where the home nations have strength and opinions on who is the best _x_ at the moment in the home nations. The Lions team will change a lot in the next year - and its always interesting to see how right (or usually wrong) people were about certain players.
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Post by aucklandlaurie on Sun 03 Jun 2012, 12:50 am


Wales 606
Why do you guys do this? anywway where are the Lions going?

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Post by wales606 on Sun 03 Jun 2012, 1:00 am

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Wales 606
Why do you guys do this? anywway where are the Lions going?

Why do we discuss rugby...well that is a philosophical question that should be posed for everyone on the board to answer.

I will try...because its fun/interesting and sometimes not completely spoiled by WUMs (like the backrow debate on the SA thread)

Lions are off the Australia. Gatland Wales tour is like a mini preview...but without the token Irish and Englishman.

Damn...I talk about Wumming then I go and do it myself...

Ah well Hug
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Post by aucklandlaurie on Sun 03 Jun 2012, 1:21 am

606
honestly it was a serious question.

In a years time the Australian team will have a lot of changes compared to what Dingo will put out next week.

I wasnt trying to be philosophical, i just couldnt understan why people would be discussing a tour in overa years time ,when there is such quality rugby being played in a few days time. I truely dont think I'll ever really understand some of you guys.

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Post by wales606 on Sun 03 Jun 2012, 1:24 am

aucklandlaurie wrote: 606
honestly it was a serious question.

In a years time the Australian team will have a lot of changes compared to what Dingo will put out next week.

I wasnt trying to be philosophical, i just couldnt understan why people would be discussing a tour in overa years time ,when there is such quality rugby being played in a few days time. I truely dont think I'll ever really understand some of you guys.

As I have already said, it is a comparison of player from Britain and Ireland - not a decision on who will be on the Lions tour in a years time.

Comparing the positives and negatives of certain players and certain styles is a good way to generate discussion about the game and hopefully to learn things and adjust you opinions (or convince others of your own)
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Post by aucklandlaurie on Sun 03 Jun 2012, 1:26 am


OK.

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Post by ChequeredJersey on Sun 03 Jun 2012, 1:31 am

Robshaw is becoming more 7-like though
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Post by ChequeredJersey on Sun 03 Jun 2012, 1:31 am

If only he were a yard faster
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Post by wales606 on Sun 03 Jun 2012, 1:41 am

ChequeredJersey wrote:Robshaw is becoming more 7-like though

True, but I think it is difficult for him to become a complete 7 now - he will remain a 6.5/7 like SOB.

From what I have seen, Wood is a good 7 and has been very unlucky with injures.

6. Robshaw
7. Wood
8. Morgan

19 Haskell

Is how I see the future of the England backrow if Wood returns.
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Post by ChequeredJersey on Sun 03 Jun 2012, 1:45 am

Works for me- Robshaw and Wood sharing the breakdown duties.
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Post by wales606 on Sun 03 Jun 2012, 1:48 am

ChequeredJersey wrote:Works for me- Robshaw and Wood sharing the breakdown duties.

Wood making turnover and Robshaw making the hit and slowing ball on the ground is how I would see it.

Robshaws strength is not turning ball over - it is more being a nuisance at the breakdown and tackling (he's a decent carrier too)
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Post by ChequeredJersey on Sun 03 Jun 2012, 1:58 am

It's not his strength but he does it adequately enough at club level, in some games he's been fantastic at it. He's certainly more of a tackler and that and his determinator attitude and consistency are his most important attributes to England
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Post by wales606 on Sun 03 Jun 2012, 2:05 am

ChequeredJersey wrote:It's not his strength but he does it adequately enough at club level, in some games he's been fantastic at it. He's certainly more of a tackler and that and his determinator attitude and consistency are his most important attributes to England

Yup. Might make a decently balanced backrow with Robshaw the workhorse, Morgan the carrier. (with Robshaw doing some carrying aswell) and Wood the jackler.
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Post by George Carlin on Sun 03 Jun 2012, 8:23 am

It's going to be our best chance of a test series Lions win in quite a long time - we just need that hoary old goat Gatland to knit everyone together.

I love the constant references in here to people choosing on the amorphous concept of "class". What you're basically saying is "they aren't the best player currently in form but I like them, so I don't care". Laugh
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Post by thomh on Sun 03 Jun 2012, 8:44 am

Chjw131 wrote:The OZ game I was referring to however, was the AI of 2010 when we did truly blow them off the park.

Oh right that makes a bit more sense. Payne didn't play in that game, so when you mentioned him I assumed you were talking about the summer tour.

Chjw131 wrote:There's nothing wrong with advocating a physical centre such as Tuilagi or Roberts, but my impression was that you were suggesting we don't play OZ at their own game.

Well I suppose I was suggesting that, but 'not trying to mimic Australia's style' doesn't really equate to playing 10 man rugby. I want the Lions to be a powerful attacking side, and I think a big centre would be an important part of that.

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