Rugby debate: Drop Priestland? Yes or No?

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Should Rhys Priestland be dropped for 2nd test?

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Post by welliamwibb on Sat 09 Jun 2012, 1:16 pm

This is by no means an assault on one player because Wales lost. I think there should be several changes for next week. There was a lot of rustyness and silly errors, but one thing I am noticing is one person in particular is not developing as well as others.

Rhys Priestland has of course played well for the Scarlets and had some great games for Wales. He played well during the WC till he got injured and he hasn't really played with any consistency since.

Yes he has talent, yes he's played well before, yes he's young and of course if he has one or two poor games then axing him isn't always the solution. Players need another chance if they have potential and you don't want to destroy a players confidence by dropping them for the odd mediocre performance. He can play shambolic against England and we can still win, but that is England. This Australia test is serious and we need some big bottle and big performances.

He kicks possession away for no reason when he have the likes of Cuthbert, North and JD2 outside of him. When he kicks an up and under it goes too far and can't be chased. Of course the worst mistake was the knock on that could have lead to a match winning try. His Six Nations was average, he didn't spark. He rarely makes a good break (like Stephen Jones). Our running backline needs a more attacking minded 10.

Hook deserves a chance quite frankly because we have nobody else. The best 10 in the UK (Dan Biggar) wasn't good enough to tour, apparently.

Priestland should start next week on the bench. If Hook has a howler then he can come back on in the 2nd half and prove his worth. We have enough 10's in Wales knocking at the door. Time to see who is the most capable.

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Post by offload on Sat 09 Jun 2012, 1:18 pm

Priestland must start.
Hook isn't good enough to be on the bench.
Biggar isn't good enough to be in Australia.

Our problem today had nothing to do with the 10 shirt!
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Post by Guest on Sat 09 Jun 2012, 1:20 pm

No, we've got no one else to replace him.

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Post by thebluesmancometh on Sat 09 Jun 2012, 1:21 pm

Except for the totally pathetic kicking out of hand, the missed tackles and the drop on the try line offload??

Until recently I gave him the credit, he's young clearly talented, and is working hard on his weakness's, but why are we waiting for him to lose the shirt opposed to giving it to someone who is playing superbly and him trying to win it back?!

Biggar must be sat at home kicking the cat!

I will say though, we need to be better in other phacets before we blame him!!

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Post by gowales on Sat 09 Jun 2012, 1:47 pm

Yes enough's enough now.

Start Hook with Beck alongside him. He deserves a shot

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Post by CurlyOsp on Sat 09 Jun 2012, 1:50 pm

Priestland looks as if he's going to the game with his head down at the moment. We could have done with a bit of Biggars arrogance today.

Biggar is in good form and works well with both Phillps and Beck (who's likely to be starting the next test). Why he's not in Australia is beyond me.

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Post by TycroesOsprey on Sat 09 Jun 2012, 1:54 pm

thebluesmancometh wrote:Except for the totally pathetic kicking out of hand, the missed tackles and the drop on the try line offload??

Until recently I gave him the credit, he's young clearly talented, and is working hard on his weakness's, but why are we waiting for him to lose the shirt opposed to giving it to someone who is playing superbly and him trying to win it back?!

Biggar must be sat at home kicking the cat!

I will say though, we need to be better in other phacets before we blame him!!

He also knocked on in the first half with the tryline begging as well. Honestly Ive been a defender of RP and a harsh critic of Hook but how badly does RP have to play before he is dropped. He needs to go back to the scasrlets next season and get his mojo back. He has been way off the pace for far too long.

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Post by offload on Sat 09 Jun 2012, 1:54 pm

thebluesmancometh wrote:Except for the totally pathetic kicking out of hand, the missed tackles and the drop on the try line offload??

Until recently I gave him the credit, he's young clearly talented, and is working hard on his weakness's, but why are we waiting for him to lose the shirt opposed to giving it to someone who is playing superbly and him trying to win it back?!

Biggar must be sat at home kicking the cat!

I will say though, we need to be better in other phacets before we blame him!!

Well I don't think Biggar is good enough. He might have played well for the Os this season but he was poor in the Welsh shirt last weekend. It's funny how at the WC we thought with Priestland we had a secure number 10 and yet now we have no one who seems to be a clear first choice, making the shirt their own.
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Post by welliamwibb on Sat 09 Jun 2012, 1:59 pm

It was a 2nd string side for Wales. Biggar has won the league TWICE, and TWICE in dublin on the grand final.

He has the talent and he's still only 17 and he definitely has the head.

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Post by CurlyOsp on Sat 09 Jun 2012, 2:00 pm

offload wrote:
thebluesmancometh wrote:Except for the totally pathetic kicking out of hand, the missed tackles and the drop on the try line offload??

Until recently I gave him the credit, he's young clearly talented, and is working hard on his weakness's, but why are we waiting for him to lose the shirt opposed to giving it to someone who is playing superbly and him trying to win it back?!

Biggar must be sat at home kicking the cat!

I will say though, we need to be better in other phacets before we blame him!!

Well I don't think Biggar is good enough. He might have played well for the Os this season but he was poor in the Welsh shirt last weekend. It's funny how at the WC we thought with Priestland we had a secure number 10 and yet now we have no one who seems to be a clear first choice, making the shirt their own.

He was behind a relatively poor pack in a second string side! It's hard for anyone to look good in those situations.

how is Priestland any better qualified to be playing international rugby than Biggar?

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Post by thebluesmancometh on Sat 09 Jun 2012, 2:04 pm

Have to agree curly

At this level it is the tiniest mistakes that can lose games, we have to strive for perfection, and RP is just making one or two pretty big clangers per game now. Even with the responsibilities of a traditional 10 taken from him.

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Post by gavstar on Sat 09 Jun 2012, 2:16 pm

i agree with curlyosp, how is priestland in ahead of biggar at this time? at least biggar can kick accurately at the posts. and priestland gifted the ball all game, something everyone said biggar used to do, yes, used to do, given the poor situations he was in as 10 in the last game he did ok. and he kicked to touch, not one touch kick as tactic today.

next target for the aussies will be 1/2p then we're well and truely in it. hook cant play 3 positons at once......can he?

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Post by anotherworldofpain on Sat 09 Jun 2012, 2:19 pm

Should you drop the scapegoats?

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Post by welshy6 on Sat 09 Jun 2012, 2:20 pm

no, i mean what are the other options?
hook- hahahahahaha- you cant be serious?
biggar- slight problem that he isint in aus
tovey- Not in aus, and vastly overrated

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Post by wales606 on Sat 09 Jun 2012, 4:01 pm

Only if Stephen Jones is about Wink
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Post by wales606 on Sat 09 Jun 2012, 4:02 pm

Biggar should be given a chance in the AI in the first 15 if Preistland doesn't improve greatly.

Hook is not the answer.
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Post by Shifty on Sat 09 Jun 2012, 4:04 pm

Yes give Hook a chance.
Stick Priestland to full back.
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Post by samuraidragon on Sat 09 Jun 2012, 4:44 pm

Unfair to Hook to keep playing him at 15. He's not a 15. Apart from that , what can you say? Just because the players we put out were bested on the day, it doesn't mean that players not chosen would have done better. A lot of fans have trouble accepting that point. Most of us before the game would have considered this a good selection. I did for one.

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Post by thebluesmancometh on Sat 09 Jun 2012, 4:51 pm

I wouldn't say a good selection but an understandable one.

AWJ and Evans had their parties to go to, Roberts is injured, Preistland has performed on the Int stage where Biggar hadn't, Owens had a good 6N.

I just think now we have to forget the 'monster backline' tag and get the job done up front.

Include Hibbard, Evans, Webb, get more abbrassive at the breakdown and a bit more speed and accuracy from the base and we'll go well.

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Post by mckay1402 on Sat 09 Jun 2012, 4:58 pm

Today I would have moved Hook to 10 and Priestland to 15. Not because I think Hook is a better 10. I think Hook is dangerous to Wales at FB. That game today is exactly the sort that gives Biggar nightmares. Under pressure from the forwards and no time to make his move. Admittedly Priestland has been a bit off form but I don't think Biggar is the best solution. Would rather have Matthew Morgan than Biggar to be honest.
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Post by Casartelli on Sat 09 Jun 2012, 5:09 pm

Its not just this game, Priestland has been on a steady decline since his impressive performances in the RWC warm-up games. Maybe they were just a flash-in-the-pan.

Hook has had plenty of game time at 10 in France, but the Wales management have long since condemned him to the 'utility back' role.

They'll stick with Priestland until the end of next year's 6N, then give Biggar a chance, when he's out of form again.

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Post by gavstar on Sat 09 Jun 2012, 9:06 pm

matthew morgan is speedy, he wouldnt have been given the room today, also his kicking is not up to the level needed. and i still think hes too small, turnovers a-plenty if he had been tackled today.

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Post by bedfordwelsh on Sat 09 Jun 2012, 9:09 pm

I would say yes if we had another 10 I was confident in playing there
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Post by wales606 on Sat 09 Jun 2012, 9:13 pm

gavstar wrote:matthew morgan is speedy, he wouldnt have been given the room today, also his kicking is not up to the level needed. and i still think hes too small, turnovers a-plenty if he had been tackled today.

Morgan didn't play that well vs NZ - his tactical kicking was poor. It was the forwards Ross Jones and Prydie who won that game,
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Post by Seagultaf on Sat 09 Jun 2012, 11:11 pm

Priestland was constantly under pressure today. The tactic of kicking long was the only one available with slow ball. The pass he dropped was a rubbish pass from Warburton! Priestland did not have a good game but he was better than Hook who many posters are calling for as his replacement.

One of the reasons Wales lost was too many players coming into this game without having played since being injured, they took too long to get into the game.

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Post by wales606 on Sat 09 Jun 2012, 11:24 pm

Seagultaf wrote:Priestland was constantly under pressure today. The tactic of kicking long was the only one available with slow ball. The pass he dropped was a rubbish pass from Warburton! Priestland did not have a good game but he was better than Hook who many posters are calling for as his replacement.

One of the reasons Wales lost was too many players coming into this game without having played since being injured, they took too long to get into the game.

Wales are in need of another kicking option. Preistland need to focus on his passing. An on-form Hook at 12 might actually be useful - but at the moment we are just going to have to grin and bare it, and hope that Preistland can sort himself out and pass a bit more (thats what he is good at after all) rather than kick.

Wales lack kicking options in the backs at the moment, JD2 is not a brilliant kicker. We can't win a kicking game at the moment, we have to run it back more and be more intelligent when doing so to avoid getting turned over - the attack was poor today, headless chicken and going wide far to quickly (not great to see we have gone back to the 'pass it to the winger and see what he can do' strategy - but with Cuthbert rather than Shane), and we couldn't control and keep our own ball at the breakdown - that's why we lost.
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Post by TycroesOsprey on Sat 09 Jun 2012, 11:50 pm

Seagultaf wrote:Priestland was constantly under pressure today. The tactic of kicking long was the only one available with slow ball. The pass he dropped was a rubbish pass from Warburton! Priestland did not have a good game but he was better than Hook who many posters are calling for as his replacement.

One of the reasons Wales lost was too many players coming into this game without having played since being injured, they took too long to get into the game.

Firstly he knocked on with the line beckoning twice, the first time because he took his eye off the ball at the bottom of a ruck five yards out, the second when a miss pass was thrown to JD and he tried to grab it above his head instead of letting the ball go out to JD, Halfpenny woud have been in the corner we would have taken the lead and the games dynamic would have been different,

He was turned over 4 times the most of any player although matched by halfpenny,

His kicking from hand was poor we were hammered on the territory stats despite having more posession.

He offered no running threat making 2 yards with his four runs.

Im an admirer of RP and I have always been a harsh critic of Hook at ten but we need to start JH at ten on tuesday and if he goes well start him on saturday.

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Post by gowales on Sun 10 Jun 2012, 7:07 am

It won't matter who's playing at 10 if our forwards play like they did in that first 40 minutes yesterday...

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Post by aucklandlaurie on Sun 10 Jun 2012, 7:10 am

gowales wrote:It won't matter who's playing at 10 if our forwards play like they did in that first 40 minutes yesterday...

I didnt think your forwards played that well.

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Post by bedfordwelsh on Sun 10 Jun 2012, 8:36 am

gowales wrote:It won't matter who's playing at 10 if our forwards play like they did in that first 40 minutes yesterday...

Yeah thats the main point I think, its always said forwards win games backs decide by how much.

Well if ours play like that next week, especially at the breakdown and around the ruck then its 2-nil to the Aussies.
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Post by TycroesOsprey on Sun 10 Jun 2012, 8:44 am

bedfordwelsh wrote:
gowales wrote:It won't matter who's playing at 10 if our forwards play like they did in that first 40 minutes yesterday...

Yeah thats the main point I think, its always said forwards win games backs decide by how much.

Well if ours play like that next week, especially at the breakdown and around the ruck then its 2-nil to the Aussies.

Well there will be some changes up front, Ianto is bound to come in as is smiler I think. The question is Faletau who was AWOL yesterday. Do we pick Ryan at 8 or give Faletau another run out to get back into the groove?

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Post by Glas a du on Sun 10 Jun 2012, 9:16 am

Biggar isn't on the tour.

Howley you...censored
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Post by TycroesOsprey on Sun 10 Jun 2012, 10:30 am

Glas a du wrote:Biggar isn't on the tour.

Howley you...censored

I dont think Biggar would have been the answer, Tovey had he been around the squad might have been.

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Post by glamorganalun on Sun 10 Jun 2012, 10:23 pm

For me there is no debate the answer is yes, knowing how flakey he is I could not believe the management did not pick another flyhalf knowing Hook covers 10, 12, 13 and 15 (his worst position but still better than Preistland, he can't catch).

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Post by Higher_Ground on Sun 10 Jun 2012, 10:29 pm

TycroesOsprey wrote:
Glas a du wrote:Biggar isn't on the tour.

Howley you...censored

I dont think Biggar would have been the answer, Tovey had he been around the squad might have been.

Based on? I don't think the Australians would have agreed to wear Ospreys shirts so Tovey could lift himself for his one good game per season.

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Post by wales606 on Mon 11 Jun 2012, 12:22 am

Higher_Ground wrote:
TycroesOsprey wrote:
Glas a du wrote:Biggar isn't on the tour.

Howley you...censored

I dont think Biggar would have been the answer, Tovey had he been around the squad might have been.

Based on? I don't think the Australians would have agreed to wear Ospreys shirts so Tovey could lift himself for his one good game per season.

Laugh

But now he is at the Blues, his one good game per year has to be against the Dragons - its in Sweeney's contract apparently, so Tovey has to do the same.
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Post by gavstar on Mon 11 Jun 2012, 3:02 am

lets face it head on, howley does not like biggar. biggar will play his own game , has a go , plays what he sees, howley says' dont kick to touch under pain of death ' end of. you must not think for yourself, as he said in the evening post before ba baas,' i have told biggar how to play this game'
the man is a power junkie. my way , high way.

read the post aussie match from howley ' maybe we should have tried to play a little more in their half' !!!!the mans a ******* w****e of sp*ce, time howley was made accountable, how come he didnt tell priestland to change tactics at 1/2 time?

howley is at least 75% of our problem. come on posters, dont blame all the players, howley should go. why are we all ignoring whats so obvious? we havent had a player kicking for touch or using the kicking to keep the oppositon in their own half instead we gift the ball!!!!!! wake up everybody, we need a new man, new plan, what we are doing is not going to work in the s . hemisphere , too fast, too physical .we're found out, found wanting, never mind who the players are.

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Post by Glas a du on Mon 11 Jun 2012, 7:07 am

Gatland had the job and appointed Edwards as his comfort blanket and two weak Welshmen as a sop who would not be a threat. They are Gatlands tactics. We will never know if he had something up his sleeve for these tests now as he is hardly likely to tell Howley what it is or give it away before the Lions tour next year. He put his Wales job on the line for three seasons after the 08 GS playing a limited game plan keeping cards up his sleeve for the World Cup. Gavstar is right, Howley ain't up to it.
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Post by Biltong on Mon 11 Jun 2012, 7:11 am

Leave Priestland be, he has been consistently selected by Gatland for a while now, as much as you favour other selections Gatland has been smart about his selections and built a good squad, just leave it be.
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Post by gowales on Mon 11 Jun 2012, 7:19 am

I don't know biltong. Priestland might get complacent, sometimes you got to drop a player to give him the kick up the arse he needs.

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Post by Glas a du on Mon 11 Jun 2012, 7:22 am

Whilst I agree Priestland needs to be dropped, the alternative he has available, Hook, is surely worse?
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Post by Biltong on Mon 11 Jun 2012, 7:24 am

But Hook is going to 8, isn't he? Whistle
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Post by gowales on Mon 11 Jun 2012, 7:26 am

Glas a du wrote:Whilst I agree Priestland needs to be dropped, the alternative he has available, Hook, is surely worse?

I don't think so, he's been playing well for Perpignan at 10 and has played more good games at 10 internationally than Priestland has to date

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Post by samuraidragon on Mon 11 Jun 2012, 7:27 am

Here's an idea. Let's see how Hook does versus the Brumbies. Good performance, and he's in. (He's only had 12 mins at 10 for Wales since the WC, compared with - let's see - 560 minutes for the Priest).


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Post by Seagultaf on Mon 11 Jun 2012, 7:35 am

gowales wrote:
Glas a du wrote:Whilst I agree Priestland needs to be dropped, the alternative he has available, Hook, is surely worse?

I don't think so, he's been playing well for Perpignan at 10 and has played more good games at 10 internationally than Priestland has to date

Wales forwards were bested and Wales lost, and so typically the fans reaction is to call for the number 10 to be dropped..............priceless!

According to the Perpignan fans on the message boards, they have not been particularly enamoured with Hook. Don't forget they very nearly got relegated this season! Also Hook has played more rubbish games at international level that Priestland has even played at test level.

Hook has all the basic skills but lacks concentration and pace at this level. I just don't see how Hook would have coped with the pressure the Ozzies were putting on our 10 better than Priestland did.

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Post by gowales on Mon 11 Jun 2012, 7:39 am

Seagultaf wrote:
gowales wrote:
Glas a du wrote:Whilst I agree Priestland needs to be dropped, the alternative he has available, Hook, is surely worse?

I don't think so, he's been playing well for Perpignan at 10 and has played more good games at 10 internationally than Priestland has to date

Wales forwards were bested and Wales lost, and so typically the fans reaction is to call for the number 10 to be dropped..............priceless!

According to the Perpignan fans on the message boards, they have not been particularly enamoured with Hook. Don't forget they very nearly got relegated this season! Also Hook has played more rubbish games at international level that Priestland has even played at test level.

Hook has all the basic skills but lacks concentration and pace at this level. I just don't see how Hook would have coped with the pressure the Ozzies were putting on our 10 better than Priestland did.

How many times do i have to say that Perpignan were crap the whole season, no 10 would have made that big a difference to their season.

Yet Priestland has had numerous bad games in a row now and hasn't been playing well for the Scarlets at all. Sometimes you've got to drop a player, he's not Dan Carter or anything you know!


Last edited by gowales on Mon 11 Jun 2012, 7:45 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by gowales on Mon 11 Jun 2012, 7:40 am

And for the record i've been a huge supporter of Priestland, even in the 6 nations when he wasn't playing so well i said we should stick with him. But enough is enough now he needs to get his head sorted out

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Post by gowales on Mon 11 Jun 2012, 7:46 am

And it's strange because the Perpignan fans that i've heard from have said they've been impressed with Hook and he's done well in the circumstances and what he's had to deal with around him.

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Post by samuraidragon on Mon 11 Jun 2012, 7:47 am

Acftually, Hook has a very good rep at Perp, who were poor through most of the season due to changing coaches and being beaten up front, not any problems behind the scrum. This year Hook started and finished every game for which he was available at 10.

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Post by bedfordwelsh on Mon 11 Jun 2012, 8:38 am

Priestland has been poor of late and if I had more confidence in Hook I would be all for him replacing him for 2nd test.

I hope Hook goes well tomorrow then ok maybe give him the nod for Saturday, what I really really hope doesn't happen is that Hook gets the nod at 12 or even more scary at XV if injuries go against us.
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