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PGA Tour: The Olympic Game: Notes from the Ballwasher

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Post by incontinentia Sat 09 Jun 2012, 2:06 pm

1).Notes this week from the Land That WiFi Forgot; but the beach cricket pitches are spectacular - if anyone only knew how to play. So: Notes very short, if not sweet.

2).Last week's entertainment in Memphis was predictably unpredictable. Good to have Dustin Johnson back in Victory Lane, but a short stint in front of the telly would have suggested that, if Rory had made just half the putts he missed under five feet, he'd have probably won.

3).Glimmer of form from two unlikely Aussie sources with Nick O'Hern registering his first top 25 finish of the season. Expect him also to play well in Hartford in a fortnight. And Robert Allenby was back on the leaderboard after a couple of months in the weeds. Allenby, who could always be depended upon for his ball-striking - and his unpredictable short game. Now the whole lot has been unpredictable. Maybe that will change with some confidence from a good result..

4).More good results from Greg Owen, now almost certain to qualify, not just for The Barclays, but for the Deutsche Bank also.

5).Dustin Johnson now has six wins since 2007 - only Woods (16), Mickelson (10), Stricker (9) and Zach (7) have more. About 3/1 against one of those five increasing his total this week?

6).Robert Karlsson has sunk to #50 in the World Rankings, perhaps just a continuation of his rotten form away from leaving for the Top 50 for the first time in over 4 years. The leaders in consecutive weeks in the top 50 might surprise:
Mickelson - 968
Donald - 406
Poulter - 299
Stricker - 275
Zach Johnson - 270
Westwood - 249
Kaymer - 229

7).No-one has won the US Open after winning on the PGA Tour the previous week, in recent history at least. Dustin Johnson has a lot to prove and his successes (and an ultimate disappointment) at Pebble Beach suggest that he's a strong candidate to upset that line in the record book. But the past two US Opens at Olympic have been won by Scott Simpson and Lee Janzen, top-class golfers to be sure but known better for steady play and sometimes excellent short games. Furyk-like, Donald, Stricker? Not sure I've got the faintest idea, but Olympic will certainly test the patience.

8).More as an item of interest than an indicator for this week, the 1998 leaders from this week's field include:
5th: Stricker
7th: Westwood
10th: Cink, Mickelson
14th: Furyk, Kuchar
18th: Woods
23rd: Casey Martin
25th: Bjorn, Singh,
32nd: Durant, Harrington
43th: Olin Browne
49th: Els

9).The forecast for Thursday and Friday at least suggests cool, breezy weather with temps not reaching 70F until the weekend. Combined with the traditional "heavy" ocean air, the course yardage of approx 7,100 yards will play much longer, especially given the very narrow actual landing areas on some fairways caused by the sloped landing areas. I'd guess that will favour a Westwood over a Donald, a Mahan over a Stricker, but really can't think of any "favourite".

10).So who are we going to be staying up late to see crowned "US Open Champion"? Not McIlroy or Donald for me, and not Bubba or even Tiger, despite his return to winning form at Memorial. In 2009 he won each of his last pre-Major start but came up empty; it would be a brave punter who bet on a repeat, but this may not be the opportunity for him. Best bet might be e.w. on someone like Peter Hanson. Or even a real stretch, Spencer Levin. And by that time I’ll have returned to the land of wi-fi.



From incontinentia (merged from another thread):


Site: The Olympic Club (Lake Course)

The course: The Lake Course was designed in 1924 by Willie Watson and Sam Whiting, and then Whiting redesigned it three years later because of significant storm damage. Its main characteristics are sloping, tree-lined fairways as the property works its way down toward Lake Merced. There is only one fairway bunker on the entire course, at the par-4 sixth. There have been minimal renovations over the years, except for a new hole created for the par-3 eighth that now plays 200 yards and was moved to the right. Hundreds of trees have been removed, opening views down toward Lake Merced.

Length: 7,170 yards
Par: 34-36—70

Last time at Olympic Club: Lee Janzen overcame a five-shot deficit against Payne Stewart and closed with a 2-under 68 for a two-shot victory. Janzen got a huge break in the final round when his ball, stuck in a tree on the fifth hole, was dislodged as Janzen was headed back to the tee to play his third shot. It was his second U.S. Open title.

U.S. Open champions at Olympic Club: Jack Fleck (1955), Billy Casper (1966), Scott Simpson (1987), Lee Janzen (1998).

Noteworthy: The four players who finished second in the U.S. Opens at The Olympic Club won a combined 27 majors. The four winners won a combined seven majors.

Quoteworthy: "Now we are going to get back to where it's not going to be so much fun and games out there. It's going to be hard work."—Johnny Miller on Olympic Club.

Key statistic: The U.S. Open is the only major Tiger Woods has not won in consecutive years.

Key coincidence: The U.S. Open champion played with Phil Mickelson in the opening two rounds twice in the last four years.

Tiger tales: Tiger Woods has gone four years without winning a major. The longest Jack Nicklaus went without a major was five years, a drought that began at age 41.
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Post by super_realist Sun 10 Jun 2012, 7:06 am

For the good of the game, let's hope that drought becomes a famine. Hopefully the course is set up to punish his atrocious driving.

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Post by incontinentia Sun 10 Jun 2012, 12:32 pm

By all accounts it will be a very tough test, much tougher than Congressional last year. Definitely not as soft anyway, Woods recently played a practice round and was amazed to see a 9-iron hit the green and bounce as high as the top of the flagstick!

The first 6 holes are to be the toughest opening 6 in championship golf history!!

The last 14 Majors have seen 14 different winners, will that trend continue?

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Post by sirbenson Sun 10 Jun 2012, 1:23 pm

I bet the USGA are gunning for the players this year after the easiness of last year!

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Post by neutral07 Mon 11 Jun 2012, 9:48 pm

sirbenson wrote:I bet the USGA are gunning for the players this year after the easiness of last year!

Last year was destroyed by the rain, usually USGA don't miss a beat but they did last year because new built greens had no moisture air sucking system under the green, which meant dangerous flags can be attacked by players who hit the ball very high.

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Post by sirbenson Mon 11 Jun 2012, 9:51 pm

Apparently there is no 10 shot rule anymore and it is top 60s and ties.

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Post by Skydriver Tue 12 Jun 2012, 9:30 am

Just looking at the field for the comp, and was wondering who the heck is Samuel Osborne of England???

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Post by McLaren Tue 12 Jun 2012, 9:39 am

"who the heck is Samuel Osborne of England???"

Not sure, but i notice Paul casey of England is in, i assume he sneaked in by still being in the top 60 owgr at one of the cut offs?
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Post by Skydriver Tue 12 Jun 2012, 9:46 am

Casey is now out, according to BBC. A 14 year old is taking his place!

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Post by McLaren Tue 12 Jun 2012, 9:49 am

Regarding casey, he has now been replaced by a 14 year old as his shoulder injury is still causing him problems.
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Post by Fader Tue 12 Jun 2012, 9:52 am

14 year old Anthony Zhang in for Casey, now youngest ever to play a US Open according to sky sports, they reckon bit of a whizz kid got 2 wins on the IMG junior tour this year whatever the img tour is!

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Post by Fader Tue 12 Jun 2012, 9:53 am

Also Snedeker out and Jordan Spieth in

He's another youngster isn't he has appeared on a few leaderboards last 12months if memory serves to be correct

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Post by EmmDee57 Tue 12 Jun 2012, 10:32 am

14 years old!! That's crazy. I was nervous playing in my own club's boys medals at that age let alone playing in front of millions on worldwide tv. Good luck to the lad, would be some achievement if he was to play the 4 days.

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Post by sirbenson Tue 12 Jun 2012, 11:25 am

Great story with Zhang after Casey Martin as well...plenty of early storylines so far now a good one this Sunday would be a comeback from a 40 year old Irishman to win his fourth major!

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Post by incontinentia Tue 12 Jun 2012, 11:27 am

He has been showing some form recently benson, lets hope it all comes together for him this week.
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Post by sirbenson Tue 12 Jun 2012, 11:40 am

It would be great, a good thursday is key nothing worse then two/three over and he should be in a great position!

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Post by John Cregan Tue 12 Jun 2012, 11:41 am

sirbenson wrote:Apparently there is no 10 shot rule anymore and it is top 60s and ties.

Sir,

What is your source for this info??

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Post by sirbenson Tue 12 Jun 2012, 11:45 am

John Cregan wrote:
sirbenson wrote:Apparently there is no 10 shot rule anymore and it is top 60s and ties.

Sir,

What is your source for this info??

I saw a journalist tweeting it, it maybe incorrect let me go and find it....

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Post by robopz Tue 12 Jun 2012, 11:46 am

Fader wrote:Also Snedeker out and Jordan Spieth in... He's another youngster isn't he has appeared on a few leaderboards last 12months if memory serves to be correct

Spieth... Going into his junior year at the University of Texas. But not quite ready for PGAT prime time yet, even though he has shown up on a few PGAT events. Claims to be committed to stay in school through graduation (Good thing IMHO). His Texas team recently won NCAA National Championship. Spieth was thought to be the "stopper" on his team going into the NCAA's... but he over practiced to the point that he damn near screwed up his swing... thus ending up more like the #2 or #3 on his team for the NCAA's. He ended up 50-something in the individual and went 1-1-1 in the match play portion of the NCAA's. In four PGAT tournaments he's made two cuts, his best finish a T32 at the 2011 Byron Nelson where he got into the top-10 through round 2, but in tough weather conditions faded over the weekend. His game seems to be on the rebound as he played very well in his sectional qualifier at Houston's Lakeside CC. He lost in a 4-way playoff for the last 2 of 3 spots, but did earn higher alternate status over local Houston kid and U. of Alabama star Cory Whitsett ('Bama was Texas opponent in the NCAA final).

All in all... a good looking prospect for a solid PGAT career, but couldn't that be said of maybe 20 college kids every year? A made cut at Olympic would be huge, and while it would be most unexpected, he is a good driver of the ball... so it's certainly possible.

EDIT: cleaned up.


Last edited by robopz on Tue 12 Jun 2012, 11:57 am; edited 2 times in total

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Post by sirbenson Tue 12 Jun 2012, 11:47 am

Bob Harig ‏@BobHarig
Perhaps overlooked in some of the exemption changes for U.S. Open. No 10-shot rule anymore. Just top 60 and ties make 36-hole cut.

https://twitter.com/#!/BobHarig

ESPN SENIOR GOLF WRITER....

So if he is wrong he has made some serious mistake!

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Post by John Cregan Tue 12 Jun 2012, 11:53 am

Cheers SirB...........a pity though. I think the 10 shot rule is a good idea......

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Post by sirbenson Tue 12 Jun 2012, 11:55 am

Yes it is but I suppose it is good to have a different cut rule then the other majors.

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Post by robopz Tue 12 Jun 2012, 12:01 pm

I generally like the 10-shot rule as well. But maybe not a factor this year anyway. A few of the pros and talking heads are suggesting this course is likely to separate the field more than recent Open's... we'll see.

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Post by sirbenson Tue 12 Jun 2012, 12:13 pm

I hope it is a tighter US OPEN and not like last year's run away!

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Post by incontinentia Tue 12 Jun 2012, 12:58 pm

Butch Harmon doesn't seem to approve of the set-up...

“I’ve never been a fan of the Olympic Club. I don’t particularly like holes that dog-leg from right to left and the fairways slope in the opposite direction.

“I think the 16th hole is ridiculous to be honest with you.

“When we were there last Thursday we were playing into the wind and Gary Woodland, who is one of the longest hitters in the game, hit a driver, a two iron and an eight iron to it.

“I’m not sure they’ll even use that back tee – it’s kind of an innocuous hole the way it is now because it’s too difficult.

“The whole course is extremely tough and I doubt whether the winning score will be under par. We definitely won’t see what Rory did last year.

“Half the field is probably eliminated before the tournament starts because it requires such ball-striking to get around it. Then you need to have the patience and the experience of contending in Major championships – so I think you can look at guys who have had success in previous US Opens.

“If you are looking for two outsiders, Graeme McDowell and Jim Furyk’s games suit the course well – and not many people are talking about them.

“This course favours the ball striker, someone such as Lee Westwood, Sergio Garcia, Justin Rose or Zach Johnson.

“Distance isn’t that big a factor because the big hitters will seldom use a driver.

“They will only hit two, maybe four, drivers a round.

“It’s going to be interesting to see how the players attack this golf course because it is one where you will have to be conservative and patient.

“And it looks like the weather is going to be good in San Francisco which means the course will play very hard and fast. We’re supposed to have some wind so it’s going to be an extremely difficult US Open.”

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Post by McLaren Tue 12 Jun 2012, 12:59 pm

"I hope it is a tighter US OPEN and not like last year's run away"


If we believe the course is as difficult as predicted and the winning score is in plus numbers does that usually tighten up or spread out the field?

I dont really have a sense for that.

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Post by delToro87 Tue 12 Jun 2012, 1:01 pm

McLaren wrote:"I hope it is a tighter US OPEN and not like last year's run away"


If we believe the course is as difficult as predicted and the winning score is in plus numbers does that usually tighten up or spread out the field?

I dont really have a sense for that.


I don't know, but I guess that if scoring is tough it would prevent someone pulling away too much, i.e. a bogey or two is never too far away, which will pull them back to the pack?

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Post by neutral07 Tue 12 Jun 2012, 1:52 pm

incontinentia wrote:Butch Harmon doesn't seem to approve of the set-up...

“I’ve never been a fan of the Olympic Club. I don’t particularly like holes that dog-leg from right to left and the fairways slope in the opposite direction.

“I think the 16th hole is ridiculous to be honest with you.

“When we were there last Thursday we were playing into the wind and Gary Woodland, who is one of the longest hitters in the game, hit a driver, a two iron and an eight iron to it.

“I’m not sure they’ll even use that back tee – it’s kind of an innocuous hole the way it is now because it’s too difficult.

“The whole course is extremely tough and I doubt whether the winning score will be under par. We definitely won’t see what Rory did last year.

“Half the field is probably eliminated before the tournament starts because it requires such ball-striking to get around it. Then you need to have the patience and the experience of contending in Major championships – so I think you can look at guys who have had success in previous US Opens.

“If you are looking for two outsiders, Graeme McDowell and Jim Furyk’s games suit the course well – and not many people are talking about them.

“This course favours the ball striker, someone such as Lee Westwood, Sergio Garcia, Justin Rose or Zach Johnson.

“Distance isn’t that big a factor because the big hitters will seldom use a driver.

“They will only hit two, maybe four, drivers a round.

“It’s going to be interesting to see how the players attack this golf course because it is one where you will have to be conservative and patient.

“And it looks like the weather is going to be good in San Francisco which means the course will play very hard and fast. We’re supposed to have some wind so it’s going to be an extremely difficult US Open.”


"I hope it is a tighter US OPEN and not like last year's run away"


If we believe the course is as difficult as predicted and the winning score is in plus numbers does that usually tighten up or spread out the field?

I dont really have a sense for that.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Don't worry about run away, Butch Harmon's assessment of fairways sloping opposite to hole shape says it all, a lot of shots will be taken from 1st cut rough, which ability to spin it [crucial element to hold approach shots on the green]. Hold onto your hats guys, it will brutal. bogeys are may be fine, just avoid doubles or worse.

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Post by hend085 Tue 12 Jun 2012, 2:05 pm

i get Butch's point that its playing tough.... but really whats wrong with hitting an 8 iron into a par 5 when you didnt even have a wood in your hand for the second shot?!

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Post by neutral07 Tue 12 Jun 2012, 4:28 pm

hend085 wrote:i get Butch's point that its playing tough.... but really whats wrong with hitting an 8 iron into a par 5 when you didnt even have a wood in your hand for the second shot?!

I think main root of his complain is most of guys are playing awful & probably fears tons of missed cut for them.

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Post by robopz Tue 12 Jun 2012, 4:59 pm

For confirmation on no 10-shot rule... from the U.S. Open Spectator guide schedule section:

"Championship Rounds 3 and 4
The first starting time will be determined by the number of
players who make the cut at the conclusion of the second round
(60 players with the lowest scores, including ties). Generally, the
first grouping begins play from the first tee between 8-9 a.m.;
the last grouping for both days will start from the first tee at
approximately 3 p.m.


I would assume if the 10-shot rule were still in effect... it would have been mentioned here.

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Post by princedracula Tue 12 Jun 2012, 5:47 pm

My understanding is that the 10-shot rule is still in effect, but we'll see...

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Post by princedracula Tue 12 Jun 2012, 6:09 pm

...nope, sorry, I take that back...
I just got some pretty definite confirmation that the 10-shot rule is no more!!

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Post by princedracula Tue 12 Jun 2012, 6:18 pm

Interesting and good to see that Rory and Lee are playing a practice round together this morning at the Olympic (+GMac who probably is staying between them Smile)

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Post by Skydriver Tue 12 Jun 2012, 6:27 pm

That might not work. Can imagine the Ulstermen (as they are often mistakenly called) asking each other "So how many majors have you won?", "How many times have you won this event?" etc...

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Post by GPB Tue 12 Jun 2012, 7:35 pm

I am disappointed to see the 10 shot cut rule not used. Its not like there isn't plent of tee times available. Last tee time on Saturday and sunday are going to be around ~2:50 pm and with 10 minute increments and starting at 8 am, they can accommodate ~35 tee times or 70 players .

Jordan Spieth won the US Juniors last summer.

He has said that he wants to play for UT for four years but with the PGAT Q-school changes, that might change. I would not be overly surprised if he decided to turn pro this summer after the US Amateur.

Just looking at the tee times for Thu-Fri. Kind of strange set up.

they are going off Hole 1 and Hole 9. Groups teeing off hole 9 start at 7 am with 11 minute increment while groups teeing off hole 1 start at 7:15. In other words two groups tee off Hole 9 before the first group goes off hole 1.

I guess the staggered start is to account for the Holes 1-8 having a par of 30 and holes 10-18 having a par of 41.

I don't think I would like this golf course too much with the reverse tilt fairways.

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Post by Shotrock Tue 12 Jun 2012, 8:18 pm

Starting on #9 avoids having to shuttle the players to #10 (on a course already space challenged). Don't see that it makes much difference.

Also not a fan of the reverse tilt fairways - over par wins this thing?

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Post by incontinentia Tue 12 Jun 2012, 9:22 pm

According to some interviews i'v seen with people in the know, players will have to accept that being 2 or 3 over after 6 holes is normal and that there are opportunities to pick up shots later in the round.

Top amateur and Olympic member Randy Haag has said that -3 to -6 will win. I think he means that this is the lowest possible winning score rather than the likely total.
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Post by neutral07 Tue 12 Jun 2012, 9:42 pm

http://www.golfchannel.com/livefromplayer.html

Press Conferences

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Post by hend085 Wed 13 Jun 2012, 8:31 am

just read an interview with Rory. he reckons he's going to hit 8 or 9 drivers out there. so much for Butch and his prediction of 2-4!

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Post by McLaren Wed 13 Jun 2012, 9:33 am

hend

Lets wait and see what he scores hitting 8-9 drivers, as that goes against every analysis of how to play the course I have read.
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Post by McLaren Wed 13 Jun 2012, 9:33 am

hend

Lets wait and see what he scores hitting 8-9 drivers, as that goes against every analysis of how to play the course I have read.
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Post by Islingtonv2 Wed 13 Jun 2012, 10:55 am

incontinentia wrote:Butch Harmon doesn't seem to approve of the set-up...

I’ve never been a fan of the Olympic Club. I don’t particularly like holes that dog-leg from right to left and the fairways slope in the opposite direction.

“I think the 16th hole is ridiculous to be honest with you.

“When we were there last Thursday we were playing into the wind and Gary Woodland, who is one of the longest hitters in the game, hit a driver, a two iron and an eight iron to it.

“I’m not sure they’ll even use that back tee – it’s kind of an innocuous hole the way it is now because it’s too difficult.

“The whole course is extremely tough and I doubt whether the winning score will be under par. We definitely won’t see what Rory did last year.

Half the field is probably eliminated before the tournament starts because it requires such ball-striking to get around it. Then you need to have the patience and the experience of contending in Major championships – so I think you can look at guys who have had success in previous US Opens.

“If you are looking for two outsiders, Graeme McDowell and Jim Furyk’s games suit the course well – and not many people are talking about them.

“This course favours the ball striker, someone such as Lee Westwood, Sergio Garcia, Justin Rose or Zach Johnson.

“Distance isn’t that big a factor because the big hitters will seldom use a driver.

“They will only hit two, maybe four, drivers a round.

“It’s going to be interesting to see how the players attack this golf course because it is one where you will have to be conservative and patient.

“And it looks like the weather is going to be good in San Francisco which means the course will play very hard and fast. We’re supposed to have some wind so it’s going to be an extremely difficult US Open.”


Surely the definition of a good course is one that weeds out the best player that week, testing a players ball striking seems a pretty good place to start. Not sure what Butch is trying to get at here, would he prefer a course where Todd Hamilton can just slap the ball round and win it?

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Post by hend085 Wed 13 Jun 2012, 10:58 am

yeah true Mac.
having said that... when Mcilroy is on his game his Driver is often the staightest club in his bag. many times in the past ive seen him pull a 3 wood for safety and put it in trouble.
i mentioned before on a different thread about Dustin Johnson saying something similar.
Its often a misconception that the short hitters are best suited to the US Open.
if you assume that everyone will miss some fairways( granted some will miss more than others) then it can be manageable with a PW in your hand (Bubba,PMick, DJ, Rors etc.) to hit the green whearas it may not be the case if you are a shorter hitter. (Luke et al)

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Post by Skydriver Wed 13 Jun 2012, 11:53 am

Who is "Sponge", caddie-ing for Lee Westwood for apparently only the 2nd time? [presumably meaning a 100% win ratio for this team to date?!?]

Not that I care. Haven't picked him for either of the comps. He's just changed his putter, his irons and his caddie. What chance does he have?

[C'mon, Lee!!! Bring the trophy back to the Midlands! If not Westy, c'mon Wobert Wock!!!]

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Post by Skydriver Wed 13 Jun 2012, 12:01 pm

Reading Luke Donald's interview transcript, I was amused by his comment:

"And obviously I feel like I am good at plodding my way around a golf course. And I suppose at a U.S. Open you have to plod away even more than probably the other Majors."

Isn't this re-hashing something that Tiger once said? Which led to Christian Donald thereafter referring to his brother and then-employer as "Mr Plod?" Which he subsequently revealed to Paul Casey, who of course decided to tell the whole world?!?

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Post by John Cregan Wed 13 Jun 2012, 12:20 pm

As regards the 10 shot rule, they are probably worried that you may have a leader after 36 holes at Level Par, meaning they will have the +10's making the cut and the possibility of a huge field for the weekend................

Still don't agree with abandoning the rule though...............

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Post by McLaren Wed 13 Jun 2012, 12:30 pm

Has Lee really changed clubs just before a major?
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Post by Leff Wed 13 Jun 2012, 12:33 pm

The pairings for the first 2 days couldn't have been random happenings. Rolling Eyes

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Post by delToro87 Wed 13 Jun 2012, 1:03 pm

Leff wrote:The pairings for the first 2 days couldn't have been random happenings. Rolling Eyes

Are they ever?

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