The British Amateur

Good Scoring at Royal Troon and Gailes.
Level par puts you in 36th place at the moment.
The draw looks like the United Nations, anyone got friends or family playing

Young lad called Jack Colegate that's a member of our club and our defending club champion, plays off +4 is in the event.

Oddly though when I checked the scores the leaderboard has him registered as playing out of another club in our area.

These guys are amateur in name only, they are all full time golfers. The should call it the Soon to be Professional Championship.

A mate of mine off +2.9 was something like 92nd reserve. Ridiculous standard.

SR I agree. I had the priviledge to play with the lad from our club in a charity day held by our club captain. In fairness conditions were good and I played well shot about +5 from memory. However young Jack went round in 63 which is -8. He barely even broke a sweat, he holds our course record which is 62 that he shot in club champs last year. Some serious golfer

Fader, I think its a bit sad someone like him is playing in a small event (for him) like the club champs. I always feel its a bit disingenuous for someone that good to play when he's going to win at a canter. There can't be much satisfaction in it for him and it must be an anti climax for all involved.
If I were that good I'd leave it to the scratch and above players.

For once super makes a sound point. The guys that win this sort of event are amateurs in the same way a man utd u21 player gets paid practically nothing in comparison to wayne Rooney. They are all coached within an inch of their lives and no doubt spend a full working day on the range almost every day.

They will also probably be hoping to attend or already attending full time golf scholarships most likely in the USA.

They should have to have a full time paid job in order to play in amateur events like this.

Have to say I agree super entirely, I think he'd be better off playing more proper Am events against people of similar ability and that club champs are not of suitable level competition as even on an average day players of said ability should walk it.


From what I've heard he is looking to remain an Am for a few years until his early 10's to gain experience in big events and has a few sponsors invites to pro events coming up. That's what I'd be focusing on but funny enough I see he is in the draw for club champs as defending champion. Seems a bit fruitless and glad I'll be playing for handicap prize instead in it.

"From what I've heard he is looking to remain an Am for a few years until his early 10's "

What is he 8 or something?

My bad Mac! My fingers on the iPhone whilst shopping for lunch = poor typing

Early 20's

Harry Diamond from our club is playing. Shot 72 around Troon yesterday so will need something slightly better to make the matchplay I'd imagine.

Fader

i thought you had the next tigers woods or something.

it really sounds like the standard of the British Am is a class above the irish Am.
i watched the newly crowned amateur champ last week and although obviously v impressive, i wasnt hit by any kind of wow factor like you might expect. solid long game and v tidy short game... he went around in 70/71

When the prize on offer is exemptions into the Open and Masters then you're going to attract a high class field. Unlike other years there are a few top class American collegiate golfers entered as they over in the UK for the Palmer Cup at Royal County Down next week.

That's a good point about American golfers. I don't know why they've stopped coming over in such big numbers. In the 1960s and 1970s there were a lot of American winners, but I think there's only been one American winner since Jay Sigel in 1979. Sigel beat Scott Hoch in the final. Deane Beman, Bob Dickson and Vinny Giles were previous winners.

Just had a run down the field and struck by how few brits are playing.This is probably one for George at troon css was 75 on par 71.So am I correct that 77 would be the buffer and the guy who shoots 73 gets cut 0.2.
May be a clue as to how these guys stay down at the low numbers(obviously fairly talented as well)

Dyna, these guys are considered cat one, so only get a 0.1 cut for every stroke below CSS once their handicaps have been added on.

also remember that they have to ADD their handicap (these guys are all at least +3 to get into British Amateur) onto their gross, so if they shoot 72, it's actually a 75 (for handicap purposes).

Good point.Didnt do the math correctly.
Wonder how many will make the grade probably a handfull

<1% I would say.

There's a massive step between top amateur and even journeyman pro.

Dunno whether anyone saw that one of the amateurs (Nathan Kimsey) was penalised strokes for slow play yesterday. Hasn't stopped him so far though, looking good for getting through to the last 32.

Bit of a surprise as Jennevret the strokeplay medallist goes out in his first matchplay match; suspect the tie of the round was the one that saw Craig Hinton, who played in last year's Open, beat Holland's Daan Huizing on the 19th - Huizing has already won the Lytham Trophy and St Andrews Links Trophy this year, the latter by about 15 shots, he can clearly play a bit. Others I'm tipping to keep an eye on are Kevin Phelan, the Irishman who qualified for the US Open a year or two ago, and Pedro Figueiredo, former Boys Am Champ who reached the quarterfinals here way back in 2008.

George,
Re: American golfers contesting the "Amateur". I think it has something to do with the advent of the "All Exempt Tour" which kicked in at about 1980.

The top guys from College essentially have a handful of events, quantity dependent upon sponsors' invites and performance, to earn enough money to gain some qualifying exemptions, perhaps all the way to avoiding Q-School completely as Cauley did last year.

This year we have Cantlay and Frittelli going straight to the pros after the NCAA Tournament and you really can't blame them.

Not sure if that's the only rationale but it's an important one.

super_realist wrote:<1% I would say.

There's a massive step between top amateur and even journeyman pro.

I disagree entirely.

2001 Walker Cup players :- Lucas Glover, DJ Trahan, Luke Donald, Graeme McDowell, Steven O'Hara, Marc Warren

2003 Walker Cup players :- Ryan Moore, Casey Wittenberg

2005 Walker Cup players :- Anthony Kim, Jeff Overton, Oliver Fisher, Richie Ramsay, Lloyd Saltman

2007 Walker cup players :- Rickie Fowler, Colt Knost, Webb Simpson, Rory McIlroy

2009 Walker Cup players :- Cameron Tringale, Sam Hutsby, Tommy Fleetwood

2011 Walker Cup players :- Jordan Speith

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but that lot includes four US Open champions, the world number 1, and plenty of guys who earn good money on the various tours. Based on that (and bear in mind this is just the top amateurs in the US and UK) I'd say that the top amateurs are very likely to become top pros. Less than 1%? More like >20%.

George, I was talking about the % of players in the British Amateur this week who would make it. As for Oliver Fisher, he should probably seek to get his amateur status back, as alongside Shane Lowry he is one of the worst professionals around.
Oliver Fisher wishes he was good enough to be a journeymen pro.
colt knost, richer ramsay, hutsby, overton, warren, Moore and trahan are archetypal journeymen.maybe the odd win, but nothing special. in fact some of them overton would even covet a chevron as a win.(fatty overton)

Let's add Dustin Johnson to George's list, the only American under 35 with 6 PGA Tour wins.

This might be a silly question but i wonder what a top professional's handicap would be if one was calculated for them. For example would Rory Mcilroy be +10 or something crazy like that?

I think McIlroy was +7 when he turned pro, something like +9 in American money, whereas Poulter was only 4 when he turned pro. Trouble is these days there are a lot of guys off +4 or +5 but still aren't good enough to make the grade. Amazing stuff. Handicap is just a number if you are good.

+7! Can only dream of being within 7 shots of that!

Just watched the highlights on Sky, won't bother tomorrow worst footage I've ever seen, saw 1 shot from each group as thingymbob from the beeb made some seriously bad commentary on how they got through each round

Shame as thought it'd be good to watch

super_realist wrote:George, I was talking about the % of players in the British Amateur this week who would make it. As for Oliver Fisher, he should probably seek to get his amateur status back, as alongside Shane Lowry he is one of the worst professionals around.
Oliver Fisher wishes he was good enough to be a journeymen pro.
colt knost, richer ramsay, hutsby, overton, warren, Moore and trahan are archetypal journeymen.maybe the odd win, but nothing special. in fact some of them overton would even covet a chevron as a win.(fatty overton)

This is the second thread you've said that about Lowry on today super. He was 41st in the R2D last year, 62nd the year before, he has a couple of top tens already this year, there's no way in hell he's "one of the worst professionals around", in fact he's been playing better the past couple of years than a lot of the tour regulars. We all know why you don't like him, that's no reason to talk complete rubbish about how successful he is though.

And how many tournaments has he won as a professional? Zero. The definition of journeyman.

Journeymen pros make a very good living in lots of sports, but it doesn't make him successful as the aim of sport is to win things. Lots of premiership footballers make a great deal of money too, but doesn't make them good.

Lowry will never amount to anything except being known as a fat glutenous, greedy git which would rather stuff his face than put in.the hard work to be a player and is a very average golf pro who is too lazy and too complacent making a decent living to really try and lose the weight and be a proper pro.

The guy is a disgrace, supposed to be a professional sportsman and he looks like an alcoholic bricklayer. How could you let yourself down so badly by assuming that physique at such a young age. He really ought to be ashamed. He get to retirement, pretty soon I imagine and I guarantee he'll regret being so out of shape as a pro as he'll achieved nothing except a string of ordinary results which may well have enhanced his bank balance but won't mark him out in the games history

Super who says he wants to do anything other than enhance his bank balance, and if that's the case what would be wrong with that, its the only reason any of us go to work.

If he wants to be in your words a fat, glutinous greedy git why should you be so offended! Do you think he'd be offended by a skinny miserable git that does nothing but spout off about how fat people are lazy and tiger woods is a man sausage of epic proportions? I doubt it.

Fact is he is a happy lad with his size and what he's doing. Which is earning a living decent or otherwise doing something he loves. I'm a toned athletic type from years of martial arts, but neighbour is an overweight dumpling of a man! Does that mean I should judge him because his build is different to mine even though were a similar height? No its his life choice and mine is my own!

End of day Super, Lowry my be portly, weigh the same as a small horse evn but end of day journeyman or not he'll do more in golf then you or I ever will.

Realist, maybe you would be better off criticising one of your own countrymen who has been caught cheating, rather than a young Irish man who's worst crime in your eyes is carrying some extra weight.

super_realist wrote:And how many tournaments has he won as a professional? Zero. The definition of journeyman.

Journeymen pros make a very good living in lots of sports, but it doesn't make him successful as the aim of sport is to win things. Lots of premiership footballers make a great deal of money too, but doesn't make them good.

Lowry will never amount to anything except being known as a fat glutenous, greedy git which would rather stuff his face than put in.the hard work to be a player and is a very average golf pro who is too lazy and too complacent making a decent living to really try and lose the weight and be a proper pro.

The guy is a disgrace, supposed to be a professional sportsman and he looks like an alcoholic bricklayer. How could you let yourself down so badly by assuming that physique at such a young age. He really ought to be ashamed. He get to retirement, pretty soon I imagine and I guarantee he'll regret being so out of shape as a pro as he'll achieved nothing except a string of ordinary results which may well have enhanced his bank balance but won't mark him out in the games history

I think you should seek some help. You seem to have some very serious issues.

he went from being "one of the worst professionals around" to being an "average golf pro" in the space of 2 posts so his must be improving pretty fast.

Anyway....

Semi-finals this afternoon at the actual tournament; already guaranteed to be a first European winner since Manassero in 2009. The first semi is Scotland's Paul Ferrier, just graduated from North Carolina State, against favourite and 2011 Walker Cup player Alan Dunbar, trying to continue the recent Northern Irish success. It's the first time Ferrier has managed to even get to the matchplay stage of the tournament. In the other semi there's another Scotsman as underdog. 19-year-old Stirling University student Jack McDonald, the reigning British Universities champion, who had to play 42 holes to scrape through two rounds yesterday, plays Austria's Matthias Schwab, who made a run for his national open title on the ET two years ago as a 15-year-old. He could make a clean sweep for Austrian amateurs, as the European Amateur title is currently held by Manuel Trappel.

hend085 wrote:he went from being "one of the worst professionals around" to being an "average golf pro" in the space of 2 posts so his must be improving pretty fast.

if Lowry can walk esker hills on a regular basis then he must be fitter than he looks

My money is on local boy Jack McDonald

Fader, you are correct, but i find it annoying that a guy with enough talent to turn pro, even a journeymen like the fat paddy doesn't try to be the best he can by taking his fitness more seriously. He'd make just a good a living, and who knows, might even win a tournament. Small margins make big differences.
Lowry isn't a great professional but obviously better than we'll ever be, but golf must be the only sport in the world where players think physique doesnt matter and that talent takes them everywhere.
How can a gutlord like him expect to be at his best in a tournament played in hot conditions?
Perhaps the tour is to blame for rewarding mediocrity so handsomely. Can't blame him for making an easy living I suppose but its not very ambitious and a big waste of talent to be held back by a giant fat belly.

I was hoping for an all Scottish final - sadly not to be. They both lost in the semis.

Just as well I don't gamble!!

Super

What is wrong with you? How can you have so many deep hatreds for sports people without actually knowing any of them?

I am assuming you have no fat mates?

I'm hoping most of it is for wind-up/shock value. If not he is a profoundly troubled person.

This has been on a knife edge all the way... Dunbar 1-down with 2 to go... C'mon Alan!!!

All Square with one hole to go!!!

And Dunbar wins!!!!!!!!!!!! Brilliant!!!

EDIT: ...having said that, the teenager Matthias Schwab is a terriffic prospect for Austrian golf. Pitty in a way that the runner up in this competition ends up with not much more than a pat on the back compared to the winner...

McLaren wrote:Super

What is wrong with you? How can you have so many deep hatreds for sports people without actually knowing any of them?

I am assuming you have no fat mates?

There should be a fat tax Mac. No need for anyone to be fat. They should certainly pay more when their gluttony, laziness akd greediness impacts on others, such as airlines, trains, cinema etc.

Did I say I hated Lowry, or did I just say he's a disgrace to professional sport?

Alan Dunbar is one of the first British qualifiers for the 2013 Masters . . . . .

He's representing the GUI

Och bugger...missed this thread when it first appeared.

To answer Doon's question...not friends or family but the Loughrey brothers are from my 2nd club (as no doubt you know Doon - did you put them up for the week?). I think they're both ranked Top 10 now and were instrumental in Wiltshire winning the English counties championship last year.

On the point of whether they should still be playing club events... They had dominated the Club Championship roll of honour since another member turned pro a few years ago but their increasingly hectic county, national and international schedule has meant them missing out the past couple of years. Personally I don't see anything wrong with them still competing at Club level (schedule permitting - as long as it doesnt impinge on their ongoing development). If nothing else their appearance is likely to inspire other junior members, whats wrong with that?

Hi Jas.
They stayed with my daughter. Nice lads I last saw them when they were about 8 years old!

Quite agree with you and good to see them still supporting the club.
If someone wins the club championship without them playing it is a bit of a hollow victory.