Chisora vs Haye

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Chisora vs Haye Empty Chisora vs Haye

Post by davidemore on Sat 30 Jun 2012, 8:01 am

I'm not a fan of these two to be honest. They both irritate me in ways that i'm not used to. Haye talks the talk but does not walk the walk when coming up against world class opponents such as Vlad Drone. The toe excuse was absolutely pathetic. He could have had a loaded gun in his hand that night and he still would not of won. He didn't want it, not one bit. He wanted the money. Side note: The way Vlad leans on his opponents necks when they get in close is shocking and something needs to be done about that. Inside fighting is part of the sport, and the referees that handle his fights need to grow a pair and not allow Drone to shove his opponents heads into his crotch when they get close. If he wants those kind of pleasures then he should go to Amsterdam.

Derek Chisora is mad. He really is removed and his trainer is even more removed. As a 50 year-old man, offering out David Haye was verbal suicide. Despite what i think of Haye that is one fight he would win. Both Derek and his loon trainer need to learn some self-control, they have serious anger issues. Chisora can be funny but he is more often than not very silly, to say the least. Although i respect him for his come forward fighting style and for giving Vitali a real scare.

Anyway, i write this not to slate them but to admit that i will indeed watch this fight. I will be back in the UK after a long time on the road too, so will be able to watch it at a reasonable hour. It's a real grudge match, although it seems that now the fight has been secured the grudge has dissipated a little, and i understand that. There is a heck of a lot of money on the table and the governing bodies are already upset as we all know. It will in my opinion be a great fight, and here's my breakdown as to what i think each fighter needs to do in order to win.

My breakdown of the fight is as follows:

David Haye will enjoy having a fight with someone his own size and he will enjoy having his opponent come forward. Chisora throws wide at times, and although he has decent movement when coming in, it is the wide shots that will open up space for Haye to counter. Being patient is key for Haye. Derek has a solid chin but it is there to be hit, at times. He needs to work on fighting off his back-foot and landing an uppercut as Chisora looks to get inside. He also needs to think about feet movement, Derek likes to fight on the inside and work the body, and this can work to Haye's advantage, if, he looks to land short, crisp punches as Chisora throws wide. The haymaker might not get it done as i think Chisora will be looking for it, and if he over reaches Derek does have power. This is the heavyweight division, they can all bang. Neat feet movement, unloading when Derek throws wide, uppercuts on the inside as Chisora comes in; these will all be key, IMO. Haye isn't the type of fighter to use his jab all night long, It'll do for the opening rounds but this fight has hate, and where there is hate there is hurt. These two will look to hurt each other.

Derek Chisora can win this fight if he stalks smartly and applies constant pressure. I like how he moves his head and uses jarred body actions when coming forward. He isn't fat anymore and the benefit of not being fat anymore showed in the Vitali fight; he had much better head and body movement when coming forward. Chisora has a nice right and left hook when his balance is there. When he is throwing those shots smartly, and when he is not over reaching, i like his left and right hooks. He is quicker than people give him credit for, and if Haye leaves his chin open these shots could prove very successful. Chisora also goes to the body well, and i think this will be key to him winning the fight. He needs to slow Haye down, he needs to slow Haye's punch speed down (and not by eating them).

Another important factor is this:he has no fear. A good and a bad thing for boxers. If he loses his composure early... he loses. If he gets frustrated, he plays into Haye's hands. If he keeps calm then i actually think that Haye could be the more nervous fighter, and the body does strange things when confronted with nerves. Derek needs to be patient, pick his shots, use his jab more and not trade early. If he does these things i give him a very good chance of winning.

Winner: I am picking Derek Chisora. I think he will cause a bit of an upset and take this by late KO. I think David Haye will be the one who is overwhelmed, and i think David Haye will be the one to fall.

Let me know what ya'll think.

Yours,

emore

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Chisora vs Haye Empty Re: Chisora vs Haye

Post by TheMackemMawler on Sat 30 Jun 2012, 8:50 am

Good analysis emore, and even though you discuss the scenario of how each could win the fight I like how you stick your head on the line and pick a winnner.

It's something I'm unable to do. When I think about the tactical development of a bout I devise a strategy for each boxer, everything becomes balanced, I become confused and each has a 50-50 chance of winning by using the said strategy.

I think fights through too much to pick winners. I just enjoy watching. I'm like an art critic. A complete nob, or just someone who lacked the essential ingredients to succeed in the field, basically laziness and a love of the good life. Saying that though, Roy Hodgson is a successful football coach without achieving anything as a pro. That makes me feel better.

Good article. Its nice to read when someone shows some understanding of the game rather than using vague wishy-washy generic statements and cliches to describe things..... Or worse still formulates opinions by studying records on boxrec. Well done!
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Chisora vs Haye Empty Re: Chisora vs Haye

Post by PaulHv2 on Sat 30 Jun 2012, 9:12 am

Personally I think Haye will win it, however I believe it'll be a very tough fight. Haye thrives when an opponent comes to him, the size isn't an issue in this fight and Hayes speed will likely be the key to winning this. The punches that hurt the most are the ones you can't see, and while Chisora was able to last the 12 with Vitali, I can see him being put down early doors against Haye like Ruiz was due to him not being able to see where the punches are coming from.
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Chisora vs Haye Empty Re: Chisora vs Haye

Post by Rossi on Sat 30 Jun 2012, 10:01 am

I think it depends how good Chisora's chin is. So far, he hasn't shown any signs of being rocked by anything he has but hit within previous fights.

Haye hits hard, but if Chisora is unaffected by his punches, his relentless pressure will wear Haye down in the end.

But if I had to go for a prediction.....Haye to win: latish KO, or Chisora DQ'd for some horrible foul.

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Post by compelling and rich on Sat 30 Jun 2012, 11:27 am

ruiz had a decent chin and was a similar size to chisora. see it similar to that one with chisora pehaps being abit tougher being younger and punch resisitance still being that much better. see chisora walking onto haye and haye stopping him mid rounds. dont see anything in chisora career that suggests he gives haye a fight. haye might be a bell end but he's much better fighter than chisora

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Chisora vs Haye Empty Re: Chisora vs Haye

Post by PaulHv2 on Sat 30 Jun 2012, 11:52 am

I've looked at it the same way C&R, the straight right hand that dropped Ruiz early doors could land at will against Del Boy.
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Chisora vs Haye Empty Re: Chisora vs Haye

Post by rycoys on Sat 30 Jun 2012, 2:40 pm

davidemore wrote:I'm not a fan of these two to be honest. They both irritate me in ways that i'm not used to. Haye talks the talk but does not walk the walk when coming up against world class opponents such as Vlad Drone. The toe excuse was absolutely pathetic. He could have had a loaded gun in his hand that night and he still would not of won. He didn't want it, not one bit. He wanted the money. Side note: The way Vlad leans on his opponents necks when they get in close is shocking and something needs to be done about that. Inside fighting is part of the sport, and the referees that handle his fights need to grow a pair and not allow Drone to shove his opponents heads into his crotch when they get close. If he wants those kind of pleasures then he should go to Amsterdam.

Derek Chisora is mad. He really is removed and his trainer is even more removed. As a 50 year-old man, offering out David Haye was verbal suicide. Despite what i think of Haye that is one fight he would win. Both Derek and his loon trainer need to learn some self-control, they have serious anger issues. Chisora can be funny but he is more often than not very silly, to say the least. Although i respect him for his come forward fighting style and for giving Vitali a real scare.

Anyway, i write this not to slate them but to admit that i will indeed watch this fight. I will be back in the UK after a long time on the road too, so will be able to watch it at a reasonable hour. It's a real grudge match, although it seems that now the fight has been secured the grudge has dissipated a little, and i understand that. There is a heck of a lot of money on the table and the governing bodies are already upset as we all know. It will in my opinion be a great fight, and here's my breakdown as to what i think each fighter needs to do in order to win.

My breakdown of the fight is as follows:

David Haye will enjoy having a fight with someone his own size and he will enjoy having his opponent come forward. Chisora throws wide at times, and although he has decent movement when coming in, it is the wide shots that will open up space for Haye to counter. Being patient is key for Haye. Derek has a solid chin but it is there to be hit, at times. He needs to work on fighting off his back-foot and landing an uppercut as Chisora looks to get inside. He also needs to think about feet movement, Derek likes to fight on the inside and work the body, and this can work to Haye's advantage, if, he looks to land short, crisp punches as Chisora throws wide. The haymaker might not get it done as i think Chisora will be looking for it, and if he over reaches Derek does have power. This is the heavyweight division, they can all bang. Neat feet movement, unloading when Derek throws wide, uppercuts on the inside as Chisora comes in; these will all be key, IMO. Haye isn't the type of fighter to use his jab all night long, It'll do for the opening rounds but this fight has hate, and where there is hate there is hurt. These two will look to hurt each other.

Derek Chisora can win this fight if he stalks smartly and applies constant pressure. I like how he moves his head and uses jarred body actions when coming forward. He isn't fat anymore and the benefit of not being fat anymore showed in the Vitali fight; he had much better head and body movement when coming forward. Chisora has a nice right and left hook when his balance is there. When he is throwing those shots smartly, and when he is not over reaching, i like his left and right hooks. He is quicker than people give him credit for, and if Haye leaves his chin open these shots could prove very successful. Chisora also goes to the body well, and i think this will be key to him winning the fight. He needs to slow Haye down, he needs to slow Haye's punch speed down (and not by eating them).

Another important factor is this:he has no fear. A good and a bad thing for boxers. If he loses his composure early... he loses. If he gets frustrated, he plays into Haye's hands. If he keeps calm then i actually think that Haye could be the more nervous fighter, and the body does strange things when confronted with nerves. Derek needs to be patient, pick his shots, use his jab more and not trade early. If he does these things i give him a very good chance of winning.

Winner: I am picking Derek Chisora. I think he will cause a bit of an upset and take this by late KO. I think David Haye will be the one who is overwhelmed, and i think David Haye will be the one to fall.

Let me know what ya'll think.

Yours,

emore
my god are you for real ? haye talks the talk but does nt walk the walk ? he has one loss against an all time great heavy in wlad and his performence was ent as bad as people like you like to make out ! all through his career he has walked the walk , did you only hear of haye when he started shouting off at the klits ? to judge him as a boxer on the wlad fight is a joke

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Chisora vs Haye Empty Re: Chisora vs Haye

Post by mikeymax71 on Sat 30 Jun 2012, 2:44 pm

Chisora has proven to be a tough nut to crack but it will all come down to speed and Haye has this in abundance at heavyweight. I think the similarities to Ruiz is pretty spot on and I expect Haye to be victorious. Dereck I think will be tough enough to last the distance as I think he will become less aggressive once he tastes the power of Haye and possbily having to get up of the floor.

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Chisora vs Haye Empty Re: Chisora vs Haye

Post by Lance on Sat 30 Jun 2012, 2:48 pm

forget the Vitali fight, chisora took some much bigger shots in the helenius fight. i was very impressed with his chin that night, and he walked through helenius at times and was able to swarm him. haye doesnt hit as hard as helenius, im pretty confident on this.
however, chisora is gonna have to do more than just walk through haye to beat him. despite hayes lack of offensive against wlad, he was still able to last 12 rounds ducking and diving without taking many shots. chisora has no commanding jab or far superior body strenght that wlad used to win the fight that night.
so unless haye gases, which is a slight possibility here, then i think he will win a very scrappy and uninspiring UD. possible a contentious one. chisora doing all the pressure, but looking a bit silly at times. im not expecting a good fight, but i will watch it and hope im wrong

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Chisora vs Haye Empty Re: Chisora vs Haye

Post by Lance on Sat 30 Jun 2012, 2:53 pm

haye may have had a good career, but he certainly hasnt walked the walk!! not when you take into consideration the boasts he has made. im sure he was just trying to get bums on seats, but surely his biggest fans must realise he hasnt delivered on any of his promises

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Chisora vs Haye Empty Re: Chisora vs Haye

Post by Seanusarrilius on Sat 30 Jun 2012, 3:12 pm

Haye by KO for me. What he has that Wlad and Vit don't is speed. He should be able to slowly but surely pound Chisora with heavy leads until he falls around the 8th

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Post by Lance on Sat 30 Jun 2012, 3:20 pm

Seanusarrilius wrote:Haye by KO for me. What he has that Wlad and Vit don't is speed. He should be able to slowly but surely pound Chisora with heavy leads until he falls around the 8th

im not sure haye is all that much faster than wlad at heavy

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Chisora vs Haye Empty Re: Chisora vs Haye

Post by TheMackemMawler on Sat 30 Jun 2012, 3:59 pm

Has anyone thought that Hayes anticipation combined with a deep anamosity towards Chisora could be his undoing?

If the hatred and occasion get to him then his fight strategy may go to ruin. If Hayes aggression is unrestrained could a Chisora TKO win be the probable outcome?

Remember the beating Haye give Thompson? Remember Thompson's resiliance? Remember Haye gassing out and being stopped (via towel)? Will it happen again?

OK, Haye is no longer a novice and he now has the experience to fight in spurts and choose when to conserve energy.

However, rage and raw emotion can effect rationality to such an extent that he may not be able to stick to the plan. This means he could gas and get stopped. Unlikely, but in boxing you never know.....
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Chisora vs Haye Empty Re: Chisora vs Haye

Post by SharkSoul on Sat 30 Jun 2012, 5:45 pm


I like your diagnosis of the fight Mack. As much as I don't like either of them I started thinking a little outside the box about this bout.

Out of the two fighters, if one was to under-estimate the other who do you think it would be and would it play a part in their preparation for the fight and strategy?

I have always adhered too 'Speed Kills' as a outcome in any fight if it's close and Haye has this in abundance. Ring rust may play a part for him not having fought since Wlad last year, unfortunately for me I was present at 'Toegate' and it was an absolute sham for me regardless of what anyone else says.

Chisora on the other hand has proved his chin going in with Helenius and Vitali having gone the distance with both. I reckon it isn't going to be as easy a fight for Haye as most are thinking.

I think Haye will win wide UD, I don't think he can stop Chisora because I think both of the aforementioned opponents he has already faced hit harder than Haye IMO because Haye isn't a natural HW anyway.

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Chisora vs Haye Empty Re: Chisora vs Haye

Post by mikeymax71 on Sat 30 Jun 2012, 5:53 pm

To be honest Mackem I think the emotions work in Haye's favour. Haye has had controversial build ups to most of his fights and generally goads opponents in to fighting his kind of fight. However, Wlad did not fall for it and therefore Haye struggled. Chisora on the otherhand will play in to David's hands.

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Chisora vs Haye Empty Re: Chisora vs Haye

Post by John Bloody Wayne on Sat 30 Jun 2012, 8:37 pm

Nice break down davide.

I've always favoured Chisora by a thin margin in this. Haye has speed and power, although I'm not all that sold on his speed. He paints himself as some kind of speed demon but when you're only throwing two punches at a time about twice per round speed doesn't come into it.

As a fighter reliant on explosive bursts of violence, it's not surprising he doesn't have great cardio. Low punch output and clearly weaker in the later rounds. The thing with biceps and peks like that, I'm sure he likes the look of them in the mirror, but when the lactic acid's building he'll wish he had better cardio and less weigh training.

If either of them gets knackered and gasses it's Haye. Pressure fighters are pure hell for burst fighters with poor cardio. Unless there turns out to be a huge difference in the class of each fighter (which I doubt) then Haye needs to take Del Boy out early, or the ring will get smaller and Derek will get bigger as the fight goes deeper. Chisora's not massively powerful, but he's bigger and stronger then Haye. Much tougher too. A bull's neck and a thick skull, I think his chin is top class. Haye is much more fragile and a naturally smaller heavyweight.

Although I think Haye's a classier fighter overall, the style clash favours Chisora. Maybe if Haye had better fundamentals I'd be behind him but he doesn't. Last time I questioned Haye's fundamentals someone pointed out he was an amateur silver medalist. Well Ali won gold and he had NO fundamentals!

If Haye can hurt Chisora, this whole prediction is on it's head.

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Chisora vs Haye Empty Re: Chisora vs Haye

Post by TheMackemMawler on Sat 30 Jun 2012, 9:09 pm

I think both will be training and preparing like demons.

Haye has the most to lose, for that reason alone, he won't underestimate Chiz.

Haye is an extremely powerful puncher, he's made of pure fast twitch fibre that guzzles oxygen when utilised in explosive motions. For that reason, he can't sustain his power for prolonged periods without taking a breather. I can't see Del willingly allowing him the space to take a rest. But Del is a dumb boxer, so realistically all Haye has to do is perpetual movement on the back foot, hard double jab to keep Chiz off balance, and powerful bunches to deter attacks when Dels crouching style allows him to slip past the left lead.

No amount of goading will change Dels style because he doesn't have the ability to change styles.

He is going to come forward all night in straight lines, crouch and weave and try and unload in close. With ALOT of movement and discipline Haye will win. However, if emotion gets the better of him and this turns into a brawl that he doesn't manage to finish within 6 rounds then he will Gas and get stopped.

This should be alot like the Ruiz fight with the only difference being that Del is young and hungry rather than old and finished. Other than Wlad, this is THE ONLY live heavyweight Haye has fought. Del needs to jump all over him, smash him.
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Chisora vs Haye Empty Re: Chisora vs Haye

Post by John Bloody Wayne on Sat 30 Jun 2012, 9:47 pm

TheMackemMawler wrote:I think both will be training and preparing like demons.

Haye has the most to lose, for that reason alone, he won't underestimate Chiz.

Haye is an extremely powerful puncher, he's made of pure fast twitch fibre that guzzles oxygen when utilised in explosive motions. For that reason, he can't sustain his power for prolonged periods without taking a breather. I can't see Del willingly allowing him the space to take a rest. But Del is a dumb boxer, so realistically all Haye has to do is perpetual movement on the back foot, hard double jab to keep Chiz off balance, and powerful bunches to deter attacks when Dels crouching style allows him to slip past the left lead.

No amount of goading will change Dels style because he doesn't have the ability to change styles.

He is going to come forward all night in straight lines, crouch and weave and try and unload in close. With ALOT of movement and discipline Haye will win. However, if emotion gets the better of him and this turns into a brawl that he doesn't manage to finish within 6 rounds then he will Gas and get stopped.

This should be alot like the Ruiz fight with the only difference being that Del is young and hungry rather than old and finished. Other than Wlad, this is THE ONLY live heavyweight Haye has fought. Del needs to jump all over him, smash him.

One important thing Haye lacks: a jab. I don't think I've ever seen him throw a meaningful jab. If he can develop one then that would be dandy.

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Post by TheMackemMawler on Sat 30 Jun 2012, 9:57 pm

Haye has got a very powerful fast left jab, as evidenced in the amateurs, whether he chooses to throw it is a different matter.
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Post by WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs on Sat 30 Jun 2012, 10:04 pm

He does throw it though, he uses it as a measuring stick for the right hand which is a waste IMO. Hayes style is about staying out of range and popping in and out winning rounds by throwing 30 punche as round. His jab is non-existent and uses it to draw leads. Whenever the does use his jab he looks pretty good but I feel that most heavyweights can walk through his jab pretty easily. His right is the power hand

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Post by John Bloody Wayne on Sat 30 Jun 2012, 10:06 pm

But he was lighter and leaner in the amateurs, fending off smaller foes.

I think the heavyweight Haye is clearly slower than the cruiserweight Haye.

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Chisora vs Haye Empty Re: Chisora vs Haye

Post by TheMackemMawler on Sat 30 Jun 2012, 10:34 pm

Yes he is slower at heavyweight, and while he was a heavyweight as an amateur, it must be said that the amateur heavyweight limit is the same as the pro cruiserweight limit, 91kg.

Im not sure as to what you intention is when saying "he was lighter and leaner in the amateurs, fending off smaller foes"? When you are smaller you fend off smaller foes. Its all relative. When you are bigger you fend off bigger foes?

Anyway, the jab thing..

Haye has a few kinds of left jabs:

1) the irritating paw which he leaves out

2)the range finder as used in the amateur sense

3) the extremely heavy jab which he puts his whole body behind (but unfortunately culminates in a push which forces it to hang on the target for a fraction of a second too long, but has the advantage of shoving off balance)

and,

4) the jab which sometimes starts as a jab, but ends in a power screw shot.

He'll need the double jab in this fight, surely he is capable of that? It not exactly difficult..
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Chisora vs Haye Empty Re: Chisora vs Haye

Post by compelling and rich on Sat 30 Jun 2012, 10:53 pm

for those who are considering hayes stamina as a issue, i have to question is chisora realy the man to push him and tire him. haye went 12 rounds with wlad much tougher asignment than dereck. the only way i see chisora tiring haye out is with taking a pounding every round. chisora's hardly the heavyweight hatton wearing you down with mean body shots. chisoras best performance he was still comfortably out pointed, one of the main reasons he couldnt maintain it enough in rounds to nick them

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Post by TheMackemMawler on Sat 30 Jun 2012, 11:07 pm

The stamina thing is not about Chisora pushing him though, its about if Haye goes out guns blazing and the stoppage doesn't come.
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Chisora vs Haye Empty Re: Chisora vs Haye

Post by WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs on Sat 30 Jun 2012, 11:13 pm

compelling and rich wrote:for those who are considering hayes stamina as a issue, i have to question is chisora realy the man to push him and tire him. haye went 12 rounds with wlad much tougher asignment than dereck. the only way i see chisora tiring haye out is with taking a pounding every round. chisora's hardly the heavyweight hatton wearing you down with mean body shots. chisoras best performance he was still comfortably out pointed, one of the main reasons he couldnt maintain it enough in rounds to nick them

Actually I would say hes the man

Wlad is better than chisora in every way, but Wlad wasn't exactly taking risks as he was controlling him on the outside, Wlad doesn't take risks and that's why he wasn't going to wear him down when he didn't need to.

Chisora beat helenius Hatton-esque. He threw 800 punches I think, most of which power shots where he worked the body very well and didn't let him rest. Vs vitali too, he worked the body pretty well and whenever the closed the distance vitali clinched him. Haye is a good 30lbs lighter than vitali and not nearly as Strong, he won't be able to tie up like vitali did.

Chisora will be on him for the entire fight trying to land shots to the body and could be like Frazier-Ali where chisora takes punishment so he can let his bombs go

Haye has never been forced to fight at a pace where he hasn't been happy at. Vitali, Harrison , Wlad and a past it ruiz don't fight like that. Haye also has never taken body shots from a heavyweight also so it'll be interesting to see how he take Sturm given he hasn't the best stamina in the first place

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Chisora vs Haye Empty Re: Chisora vs Haye

Post by paul12342 on Sun 01 Jul 2012, 12:01 am

i reckon Haye will batter chisora bigtime in this fight.

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Post by davidemore on Sun 01 Jul 2012, 3:36 am

@paul12342

And why do you think this Paul? It is indeed quite possible but what makes you think this? Break it down, brother.

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Post by davidemore on Sun 01 Jul 2012, 3:38 am

@rycoys

I believe the Vlad fight said so much about Haye as a boxer, he really did not deliver and all that bravado and hype felt like lies, IMO. He is a warrior as all boxers are, but that was a very, very poor night for Haye. His inactivity upsets me too, he is purely a prizefighter these days, IMO. But a talented one. For the heavyweight division.

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Chisora vs Haye Empty Re: Chisora vs Haye

Post by davidemore on Sun 01 Jul 2012, 5:59 am

The mackern your breakdown of Haye's jab is immense and enlightening. Great work mate.

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Post by davidemore on Sun 01 Jul 2012, 6:06 am

@John Bloody Wayne, great points man, just reading back through these posts and yours sir, was grand. Chisora by a whisker aye? I really feel he has a great opportunity here.

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Post by compelling and rich on Sun 01 Jul 2012, 9:46 am

WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs wrote:
compelling and rich wrote:for those who are considering hayes stamina as a issue, i have to question is chisora realy the man to push him and tire him. haye went 12 rounds with wlad much tougher asignment than dereck. the only way i see chisora tiring haye out is with taking a pounding every round. chisora's hardly the heavyweight hatton wearing you down with mean body shots. chisoras best performance he was still comfortably out pointed, one of the main reasons he couldnt maintain it enough in rounds to nick them

Actually I would say hes the man

Wlad is better than chisora in every way, but Wlad wasn't exactly taking risks as he was controlling him on the outside, Wlad doesn't take risks and that's why he wasn't going to wear him down when he didn't need to.

Chisora beat helenius Hatton-esque. He threw 800 punches I think, most of which power shots where he worked the body very well and didn't let him rest. Vs vitali too, he worked the body pretty well and whenever the closed the distance vitali clinched him. Haye is a good 30lbs lighter than vitali and not nearly as Strong, he won't be able to tie up like vitali did.

Chisora will be on him for the entire fight trying to land shots to the body and could be like Frazier-Ali where chisora takes punishment so he can let his bombs go

Haye has never been forced to fight at a pace where he hasn't been happy at. Vitali, Harrison , Wlad and a past it ruiz don't fight like that. Haye also has never taken body shots from a heavyweight also so it'll be interesting to see how he take Sturm given he hasn't the best stamina in the first place

i realy dont think his stamina is much of a issue, its happened once in his career when he was still very green and thompson took a hell of a beating where many a ref would have already stepped in. but the biggest reason i cant see chisora troubling haye is first he lacks power, if as you say he landed 800 power shots against a poor boxer in helenius who was still there i expect haye to be. but mostly is movement, both helenius and vitali were static stood right in front of chisora who as a bit oif a plodder himself worked perfectly for him. haye will move and counter in fact i would say chisora is made for haye's pot shotting style

i may be proven wrong but i see this as a easy victory for haye

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Post by TheMackemMawler on Sun 01 Jul 2012, 10:00 am

@John Bloody Wayne,

Just read your comment about Haye and Cardio. Its exactly the same as mine except yours came first and I didn't copy. Cheers for saying what i wanted to say before and better than me!
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Post by John Bloody Wayne on Sun 01 Jul 2012, 1:29 pm

TheMackemMawler wrote:

Im not sure as to what you intention is when saying "he was lighter and leaner in the amateurs, fending off smaller foes"? When you are smaller you fend off smaller foes. Its all relative. When you are bigger you fend off bigger foes?

I shall try and specify: At 200 pounds he was fighting guys the same size or smaller than himself. At heavyweight his opponents have been the same weight as him in name alone. He's been outweighed in all his heavyweight fights if I'm not mistaken.

I should rephrase my previous comment: At 200lbs he was fending off smaller foes THAN HIMSELF. At heavyweight he's fending off larger foes THAN HIMSELF. Chisora might well outweigh him by more than 2 stone and I'm not convinced Haye's jab has the pop to fend off a man of that size.

Speaking of the jab, you do give a nice breakdown of the different kinds. I might have to look over Haye's thread in the career in video section and try and spot each of the jabs you described.

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Post by TheMackemMawler on Sun 01 Jul 2012, 1:42 pm

I wasn't being pedantic, I'm easily confused, I catch your drift with the size thing now
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Post by John Bloody Wayne on Sun 01 Jul 2012, 1:45 pm

I didn't think you were pedantic. I was just abit vague in my previous description.

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Post by TheMackemMawler on Sun 01 Jul 2012, 1:50 pm

JBW..watch the Belfast World Amateur Championship bout against Solis and the Ruiz fight, I havn't watched them in a while, but I think those two bouts alone should showcase the jabs i spoke of. Cheers
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Post by OasisBFC on Sun 01 Jul 2012, 10:17 pm

haye may throw few punches per round but the fact is he knocks people out on a regular basis. chisora will be stopped.

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Post by Guest on Mon 02 Jul 2012, 1:31 pm

davidemore wrote:@rycoys

I believe the Vlad fight said so much about Haye as a boxer, he really did not deliver and all that bravado and hype felt like lies, IMO. He is a warrior as all boxers are, but that was a very, very poor night for Haye. His inactivity upsets me too, he is purely a prizefighter these days, IMO. But a talented one. For the heavyweight division.

Hatton had a very very very poor night against Manny. He also proclaimed that he was going to do X,Y and Z to Manny on the night. Of course, we all know what happened and many, myself included, used that loss to bash Hatton mercilessly. However, that fight aside, it shouldn't detract from the fact that Hatton was a very good (if not exactly great) boxer in his day.

Same goes for Haye really. Dominated a very weak CW division, moved up to HW and generated a lot of interest in the process. Beat couple of genuine HW (despite them not being great) and then lost when he came up against a fighter better than himself.

Far too many people are losing sight of Haye the "boxer" (although, in fairness, it's easy to do when Haye the "Mouthpiece" takes centre stage). Sadly, this will be Haye's undoing when it comes to ranking him amongst other British fighters. Hatton's amiable personality gets him a lot of credit, Froch's reticence serves him well yet Haye's big-headedness puts him waaaay down the list. However, it also seems to make it easier for people to forget whay Haye's done inside the ring (cos "you're only as good as your last fight").

I'll judge Haye's performance against Chisora on it's merits (as opposed to simply looking for an excuse to slate him). If he's good then fair enough, if he's bad, then so be it.

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Post by azania on Mon 02 Jul 2012, 3:00 pm

Nicely put Dave.

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Post by Super D Boon on Mon 02 Jul 2012, 4:24 pm

I hope Chisora wins. Even thought he's a blockhead and nut job there's a hidden depth to him that could be brought to the fore with a good counsellor and some church time.

David Haye however is a thosser whatever way you look at it.

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Post by Guest on Mon 02 Jul 2012, 4:40 pm

Super D Boon wrote:I hope Chisora wins. Even thought he's a blockhead and nut job there's a hidden depth to him that could be brought to the fore with a good counsellor and some church time.

David Haye however is a thosser whatever way you look at it.

Those Chilean miners couldn't find Chisora's hidden depths

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Post by davidemore on Mon 02 Jul 2012, 5:15 pm

Dave667 i don't need an excuse to slate Haye, nor do i want to. One key fact about Ricky's fight that differs from Haye's fight. There was no toe involved. Here's another, Ricky came to win... and here comes another... Ricky didn't talk complete tosh in the build up like Haye.

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Post by John Bloody Wayne on Mon 02 Jul 2012, 5:19 pm

TheMackemMawler wrote:JBW..watch the Belfast World Amateur Championship bout against Solis and the Ruiz fight, I havn't watched them in a while, but I think those two bouts alone should showcase the jabs i spoke of. Cheers

Was actually kind of shocked to see just how quick and piercing his jab could be against Solis. I'd seen the fight before, but only recalled the upper cut in the first and the stoppage. Good though it looked, it dissapeared quickly enough after the first round.

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Post by Guest on Mon 02 Jul 2012, 6:03 pm

davidemore wrote:Dave667 i don't need an excuse to slate Haye, nor do i want to. One key fact about Ricky's fight that differs from Haye's fight. There was no toe involved. Here's another, Ricky came to win... and here comes another... Ricky didn't talk complete tosh in the build up like Haye.
His Al Qaeeda-esque approach to the task suggested otherwise and suggestions he would bully Manny around the ring as he was too big and strong seem somewhat "tosh-ish" do they not?

Hatton also claimed that he'd over-trained for the fight which, for a professional fighter in the run-up to the biggest fight of his career seems positively cretinous

Anyway, for absolute tosh I'll refer you to Hatton's post-fight comment that he was winning the second round "by a country mile"...before being rendered unconscious!

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