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Post by Crimey on Sat 07 Jul 2012, 8:10 pm

First topic message reminder :

Liverpool FC

Liverpool FC Thread - Page 18 Liverpool

Transfers in:

Fabio Borini (£11 million)
Joe Allen (£15 million)
Joe Cole (return from loan)
Oussama Assaidi (£2.4 million)
Nuri Sahin (on loan)
Samed Yesil (£1 million)

Transfers out:

Dirk Kuyt (£1 million)
Maxi Rodriguez (Free)
Fabio Aurelio (Free)
Alberto Aquilani (£7 million)
Craig Bellamy (Free)
Andy Carroll (loan)
Jay Spearing (loan)
Charlie Adam (£4 million)


Last edited by Crimey on Wed 17 Oct 2012, 4:59 pm; edited 6 times in total

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Post by liverbnz on Thu 04 Oct 2012, 4:53 pm

Olly wrote:How is Jack Robinson progressing for you guys?

I remember him having a game or two in the first XI a year back, and he looked like a real prospect. I wondered whether you might send him out on loan this season, so he can get some experience?

Excellent potential but injuries have held him back a little. His strong suit would be going forward. Left back is a weakness for us at the moment so it would be great if he could develop this season.

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Post by LivinginItaly on Fri 05 Oct 2012, 7:25 am

This season I think we need to have low expectations and a lot of patience. There is potentially the makings of a very very good side, but we lack in a few areas: experience and the killer touch (should come with time), a out and out goalscorer to finish our good creativity. Disappointed with the result last night, but apart from the first 15 mins of the second half it was a good performance against a near full strength udinese. Patience and time are the key words for us this season.

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Post by nasisillmatic on Fri 05 Oct 2012, 9:25 am

I was impressed with the way we played in the first half, 2nd half we didn't really hit the same levels.

I felt sorry for Borini, he constantly made dangerous runs to the box but could not be picked out.

He worked his socks off as well.

Downing had his best game for us I felt, that NFL tackle on him was the most blatent red card I've seen but yet was still not given.

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Post by liverbnz on Fri 05 Oct 2012, 9:32 am

Played well, made mistakes. Rinse, wash, repeat.

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Post by LivinginItaly on Fri 05 Oct 2012, 10:08 am

nasisillmatic wrote:I was impressed with the way we played in the first half, 2nd half we didn't really hit the same levels.

I felt sorry for Borini, he constantly made dangerous runs to the box but could not be picked out.

He worked his socks off as well.

Downing had his best game for us I felt, that NFL tackle on him was the most blatent red card I've seen but yet was still not given.

Agreed. Borini was impressive, and worked so hard making runs and also tracking back on many occasions.

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Post by mystiroakey on Fri 05 Oct 2012, 10:20 am

Man that was ridiculas- -Liverpool seem to be playing nice stuff. But your getting stuffed. The new Arsernal perhaps?

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Post by Kenny on Fri 05 Oct 2012, 10:26 am

Frustrating again lastnight , played some good football but didn't get the job done . Positives had to be Borini and Robinson who i thought had a good game
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Post by Crimey on Fri 05 Oct 2012, 11:35 am

mystiroakey wrote:Man that was ridiculas- -Liverpool seem to be playing nice stuff. But your getting stuffed. The new Arsernal perhaps?

It's certainly akin to watching Arsenal when they went through that period where they had no penetration at all.

The big positive this season for me is Suarez finally finding where the goal is.

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Post by mystiroakey on Fri 05 Oct 2012, 12:32 pm

I like Liverpool. But the situation is bemusing as an outsider to the club.. I have no idea what they are trying to acheive- If it is total football then great- but that is surely a very long term goal..

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Post by Guest on Fri 05 Oct 2012, 4:43 pm

LivinginItaly wrote:This season I think we need to have low expectations and a lot of patience.

In all honesty I'd be happy with a top 8 finish. I can see us being inconsistent throughout the whole season and I'd be surprised if we string 3 consecutive wins together in the league.

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Post by Kay Fabe on Fri 05 Oct 2012, 5:28 pm

That's quite a depressing outlook isn't it Freekshow, although it's a realistic one which also has to be even more depressing

You have to wonder if the fans will accept that though don't you, its one thing saying you will but when your stuck in the middle of it then it becomes a different story, what I will say is though that the fans probably see Rodgers was hung out to dry a bit in terms of his squad strength for the season

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Post by Guest on Fri 05 Oct 2012, 5:39 pm

It is depressing Gaff I agree but for one we look an absolute wreck defensively therefor I can't see us keeping that many clean sheets meaning we'll need to outscore teams in order to get a win, obviously.

I think Chelsea, City, Arsenal, Utd and Spurs finishing above us is a given and unless Everton lose key players to either injury or the January transfer window then I'd bet on them finishing above us also. Then there is Newcastle who have a squad littered with talent.

I've been quite dismissive of Rodgers but to be fair he can only work with what he's got at his disposal which is not great by any stretch of the imagination. I would seriously worry if Suarez got injured because bar him nobody screams out goals to me.

As a child I became accustomed to seeing Liverpool win and challenge for titles but I would bet my bottom dollar that we wont be in that position again for a long, long time. Very depressing.

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Post by Kay Fabe on Fri 05 Oct 2012, 6:51 pm

Its strange, in 2009 you looked like you could win the league then Benitez had that very public meltdown and its been free fall ever since.

I've said it previously on this thread but I don't think Liverpool were to far away under Dalglish, he dropped a lot of points at home last year but the chances they made they had enough to win 2/3 games at a time, I felt with one more season they could have put that right, obviously that's all gone now.

Liverpool under Rodgers are going to have to spend big money to get challenging again just for the top four, is big spending at Liverpool likely anytime soon?

One ray of hope has been Suarez, I tipped him to win Play of the Year this season, my thought process was that he'd need to carry Liverpool this season, he's started well

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Post by Guest on Fri 05 Oct 2012, 7:24 pm

The problem last year as it was in 09 was too many draws against mid/lower table teams and good sides take the 3 points against these types of teams no matter how well they play.

We weren't that bad on the eye last season to be fair but I'd rather win ugly to be honest.

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Post by LivinginItaly on Sat 06 Oct 2012, 7:51 am

FreekShow wrote:
LivinginItaly wrote:This season I think we need to have low expectations and a lot of patience.

In all honesty I'd be happy with a top 8 finish. I can see us being inconsistent throughout the whole season and I'd be surprised if we string 3 consecutive wins together in the league.

my sentiments exactly. would be depressing but for the fact that I think finally we have some good young players coming through who within a few years will help us compete again.

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Post by PaulHv2 on Sat 06 Oct 2012, 11:28 am

We have the makings of a very good side, the youngsters coming through like Suso, Sterling, Kelly, Robinson and Pacheco are good players. Suso and Pacheco are perfect Rodgers players, very techinical and very comfortable on the ball.

While it may take a few years before we even consider challenging again I honestly believe if we can keep the young lads together then we'll have a good future. Not often you see young lads coming through the academy anymore.
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Post by LivinginItaly on Sun 07 Oct 2012, 1:36 pm

Agree Hampo, the more I think about our young players the more confident I am about our future. Just hope that Rodgers is given the time, space and if necessary the money to keep this group of young players together.

Experiences such as the one against Udinese will be a necessary part of their education and growth, hence why I think supporter patience and understanding is another vital ingredient.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 07 Oct 2012, 2:06 pm

You are unchanged from the team that spanked us
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Post by Kenny on Sun 07 Oct 2012, 3:09 pm

Adam will have a point to prove today , surprised Owen isn't even on the bench ...must be injured
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Post by PaulHv2 on Sun 07 Oct 2012, 4:10 pm

Apparently Huth is lucky not to have been sent off, got booked for a late challenge and then a few minutes later stamped on Suarez which went unpunished. Hope the FA look in to that as you can't go around stamping on players.
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 07 Oct 2012, 4:19 pm

He's German. He'll do whatever the hell he wants
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Post by Crimey on Sun 07 Oct 2012, 4:33 pm

He'll get punished retrospectively for that stamp.

Well done Stoke though, they're so good at containing and frustrating teams.

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Post by Guest on Sun 07 Oct 2012, 5:16 pm

Well a clean sheet is a positive but that's about it.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 07 Oct 2012, 5:18 pm

Freek you are like me! Always take the positives!

BTW Suarez's dive was quite frankly embarassing, something needs to be done about it really.

A) It's embarassing for him, and getting him a reputation
B) It can cost you actual penalties because of it (example being the one against us)
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Post by nasisillmatic on Mon 08 Oct 2012, 12:17 pm

There was no excuse for the Suarez dive, it was terrible. He just doesn't help himself.

I cannot stand Stoke and yesterday just proved that even more, they are the most anti football team I've ever seen. They defended well yes, but some of them challenges were beyond a joke.

Huth should have went after 5 mins.

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Post by Crimey on Mon 08 Oct 2012, 2:06 pm

They are so effective at what they do nas, I can't help but respect that. It's frustrating to play against, but that's the whole point.

The most worrying thing is the frequency of lapses in concentration at the back. Glen Johnson looks better at left back these days to be honest, as he's more controlled, but it's Skrtel and Reina who I think I'm most worried about. Hopefully they'll improve as the season goes on.

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Post by Stella on Mon 08 Oct 2012, 2:08 pm

What about Raina's kicking. I know the manager will ask/tell him to play this way but the keeper has to judge a situation and see that sometimes, a short kick is not the best option.
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Post by Crimey on Mon 08 Oct 2012, 2:10 pm

Stella wrote:What about Raina's kicking. I know the manager will ask/tell him to play this way but the keeper has to judge a situation and see that sometimes, a short kick is not the best option.

I do think this has to have been drilled into the players by Rodgers, sometimes it can be extremely frustrating when a defender tries a short pass instead of just getting rid of it. There has to be balance, otherwise goals will be given away just because the players are trying not to kick it away.

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Post by MtotheC's Wrasslin Biatch on Mon 08 Oct 2012, 5:16 pm

Well done JonJo Shelvey on his England call up

Richly deserved in my opinion. He'll be a top player

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Post by Crimey on Mon 08 Oct 2012, 6:06 pm

I agree Demon, he's been very good at the start of this season and maturing as a central midfielder very quickly. Shame that his red card has halted his progress a little as he has to displace Sahin now.

He's not ready for England just yet, but in a few years I think he'll be in there.

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Post by nasisillmatic on Tue 09 Oct 2012, 9:11 am

I agree that Shelvey will be a big player for us in the future.

I also find some Liverpool fans think he is absolutely s##te, it's strange how fans perception of a player can differ so much.

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Post by Kenny on Tue 09 Oct 2012, 4:58 pm

Shelvey still has alot to learn but the talent is definately there he will be in the team for years to come .

Heard today that we are looking at Ajax midfielder Christian Eriksen as Gerrards long term replacement . Think he is a very good player but do we really need another midfielder ?
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Post by Crimey on Tue 09 Oct 2012, 5:06 pm

I'd be disappointed with the signing of Eriksen who is one of the most overrated players in world football, consistently fails to turn up in any big games and has been overshadowed by more talented, yet less high profile names for both Ajax and Denmark.

He's horribly lightweight and doesn't have a creative spark that people seem to think he does. He's certainly not that player who'd be able to replace Gerrard.

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Post by Kenny on Tue 09 Oct 2012, 5:15 pm

I can see your point about him sometimes going missing in games , but he is a talent . Personally i would rather we tried signing Sahin permantley as i think a midfield of Allen Shelvey and Sahin with Suso and Sterling providing width would serve us well for years to come
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Post by Crimey on Tue 09 Oct 2012, 5:20 pm

Kenny wrote:I can see your point about him sometimes going missing in games , but he is a talent . Personally i would rather we tried signing Sahin permantley as i think a midfield of Allen Shelvey and Sahin with Suso and Sterling providing width would serve us well for years to come

Same, I think Sahin would be a much better option than Eriksen. I think that central three could conceivably be a top one for the next 5-8 years, and I still think Henderson has a lot to offer, he's never going to be world class, but he's a good passer of the ball and I think Rodgers should hold onto him because there is obviously talent there, I think he just needs the confidence to use it.

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Post by GSC on Tue 09 Oct 2012, 5:26 pm

Didn't Arsenal turn down Sahin because he refused to have an option to buy included? Heard he still wants to make it at Madrid
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Post by Kenny on Tue 09 Oct 2012, 5:26 pm

I have always thought Henderson was bought with the future in mind rather then a straight into the team fix when he was bought . I would hope Rodgers sticks with him as he could slot in if injurys come about
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Post by Crimey on Tue 09 Oct 2012, 5:29 pm

GSC wrote:Didn't Arsenal turn down Sahin because he refused to have an option to buy included? Heard he still wants to make it at Madrid

I don't think any reason has ever been revealed. I've heard a few different things;

1. Liverpool offered higher wages (presumably paying a higher percentage)
2. Xabi Alonso insisted Sahin select Liverpool (I imagine this did happen but probably wasn't the main reason)
3. Liverpool offered first team football
4. Yours now

I don't doubt for a second that he still wants to make it at Madrid, but I think we can still hope that if Madrid don't want him but he has a good season here, he'd sign up. Hopefully for not a lot of money either, as Sahin is clearly a top talent.

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Post by Liam on Tue 09 Oct 2012, 5:32 pm

How good do you guys think Suso can become. From the few games he's played, he looks a seriously good player.

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Post by Kenny on Tue 09 Oct 2012, 5:37 pm

From what i have seen of him and i do watch alot of the Academy games he has what used to be called a football brain , he reads the game well , is technically gifted and has an eye for goal ...............so he should go far given the opportunity
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Post by Crimey on Tue 09 Oct 2012, 5:46 pm

Liam wrote:How good do you guys think Suso can become. From the few games he's played, he looks a seriously good player.

He looks very good, I'm not sure if his position will be on the right wing though as he looks slightly unnatural there. I'm hoping if Sahin does only stay for one year, Suso is being his apprentice as that is the player he has the potential to become.

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Post by Kay Fabe on Tue 09 Oct 2012, 8:50 pm

With the talk that Eriksen could replace Gerrard, does anyone think that Shelvey is the more likely choice to be considered for that role? Obviously he still has a bit to learn but he has all the attributes Gerrard was credited with when he was 20 years old

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Post by Kenny on Tue 09 Oct 2012, 10:20 pm

Kay Fabe wrote:With the talk that Eriksen could replace Gerrard, does anyone think that Shelvey is the more likely choice to be considered for that role? Obviously he still has a bit to learn but he has all the attributes Gerrard was credited with when he was 20 years old

Shelvey does remind me of a young Gerrard in alot of ways he's direct ..likes a tackle.. can pass and score goals , i do think anyone being lumbered with that task is on a loser in the same way all number 7's are compared with King Kenny ..... Gerrard has been the heartbeat of the team for so long even after his form has dipped over they years that some fans wont accept anyone as his replacement .
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Post by Crimey on Wed 10 Oct 2012, 11:55 am

Kay Fabe wrote:With the talk that Eriksen could replace Gerrard, does anyone think that Shelvey is the more likely choice to be considered for that role? Obviously he still has a bit to learn but he has all the attributes Gerrard was credited with when he was 20 years old

He's obviously the more obvious choice to replace Gerrard as I can't think of a young player more like Gerrard right now. I think he was probably signed with that in mind as well.

However, I'd try to avoid any comparisons with Gerrard to allow Shelvey to develop of his own accord.

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Post by Stella on Wed 10 Oct 2012, 12:07 pm

When I first saw Gerrard I thought 'wow' and when I first saw him play live, he looked better than anyone else on the pitch.
If you're going to replace him, you may have to spend big, IMO.
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Post by Crimey on Wed 10 Oct 2012, 12:11 pm

Stella wrote:When I first saw Gerrard I thought 'wow' and when I first saw him play live, he looked better than anyone else on the pitch.
If you're going to replace him, you may have to spend big, IMO.

I disagree. I think such a big part of Gerrard's game was that he loved playing for Liverpool and it was the club he'd grown up playing for, if he had ever moved away I think he wouldn't be the same player. It has to come from within, while Shelvey is from London, getting his chance at Liverpool at a young age might give him that same hunger for success at the club that made Gerrard such a success.

To be honest, I think Gerrard is irreplaceable. While you can sign players that can play in the same position and do similar jobs, I don't think I'll ever see another player like him play for Liverpool. He has his critics but a few years back there were very few midfielders better than him.

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Post by Stella on Wed 10 Oct 2012, 12:24 pm

Crimey wrote:
Stella wrote:When I first saw Gerrard I thought 'wow' and when I first saw him play live, he looked better than anyone else on the pitch.
If you're going to replace him, you may have to spend big, IMO.

I disagree. I think such a big part of Gerrard's game was that he loved playing for Liverpool and it was the club he'd grown up playing for, if he had ever moved away I think he wouldn't be the same player. It has to come from within, while Shelvey is from London, getting his chance at Liverpool at a young age might give him that same hunger for success at the club that made Gerrard such a success.

To be honest, I think Gerrard is irreplaceable. While you can sign players that can play in the same position and do similar jobs, I don't think I'll ever see another player like him play for Liverpool. He has his critics but a few years back there were very few midfielders better than him.

Having hunger is all well and good but to TRY and replace Gerrard, you have to have the ability. Has Shelvey got it?
Like you say though, you may never replace a 'prime' Steven Gerrard.
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Post by Crimey on Wed 10 Oct 2012, 12:57 pm

Stella wrote:
Crimey wrote:
Stella wrote:When I first saw Gerrard I thought 'wow' and when I first saw him play live, he looked better than anyone else on the pitch.
If you're going to replace him, you may have to spend big, IMO.

I disagree. I think such a big part of Gerrard's game was that he loved playing for Liverpool and it was the club he'd grown up playing for, if he had ever moved away I think he wouldn't be the same player. It has to come from within, while Shelvey is from London, getting his chance at Liverpool at a young age might give him that same hunger for success at the club that made Gerrard such a success.

To be honest, I think Gerrard is irreplaceable. While you can sign players that can play in the same position and do similar jobs, I don't think I'll ever see another player like him play for Liverpool. He has his critics but a few years back there were very few midfielders better than him.

Having hunger is all well and good but to TRY and replace Gerrard, you have to have the ability. Has Shelvey got it?
Like you say though, you may never replace a 'prime' Steven Gerrard.

Not yet, but he has the potential to reach a top level, probably never Gerrard's level, but if we expect any player to hit those levels it'll always be a disappointment. No player in world football reminds me more of Gerrard than Shelvey right now.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Wed 10 Oct 2012, 1:14 pm

Gerrard was stunnig when he burst on the scene. No amount of 'passion' is going to make up for the massive void in ability between shelvey and gerrard.

Liverpool are going to have the same problem with Gerrard as United with Scholes - they are unique and simply irreplaceable.

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Post by Kenny on Wed 10 Oct 2012, 1:26 pm

I know Gerrard is in the team and will be for the forseable future , but does anyone think that Liverpool realise he is irreplaceable and that is a reason behind the change in style of play ? if you get what i meen
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