Olympic Road Race Thread

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Olympic Road Race Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon 23 Jul 2012, 1:30 pm

Here is a thread to discuss the upcoming Olympic Road Race.

I predict a win for Cavendish. Getting over Box Hill won't be the problem, getting the actual sprint finish will be the real problem
avatar
Good Golly I'm Olly

Posts : 42072
Join date : 2011-09-18
Age : 21
Location : Chris Woakes's wardrobe

Back to top Go down

Re: Olympic Road Race Thread

Post by LastDamnation on Mon 23 Jul 2012, 1:48 pm

Can't find a profile for this, does anyone know where one is? Or any semblence of a start list for that matter :P

LastDamnation

Posts : 428
Join date : 2012-03-28

Back to top Go down

Re: Olympic Road Race Thread

Post by Postie on Mon 23 Jul 2012, 3:32 pm

http://www.london2012.com/cycling-road/

http://www.london2012.com/venue/cycling-road-race/maps/

Postie

Posts : 88
Join date : 2011-02-10

Back to top Go down

Re: Olympic Road Race Thread

Post by LastDamnation on Mon 23 Jul 2012, 4:16 pm

Yeah I'd seen that but it doesn't give an idea of % gradient or length of climbs Sad

LastDamnation

Posts : 428
Join date : 2012-03-28

Back to top Go down

Re: Olympic Road Race Thread

Post by dummy_half on Mon 23 Jul 2012, 5:09 pm

LD
Box Hill is the main climb on the route, with the loop going round it 9 times in the men's RR.

From experience (having ridden it many times), it is not a tough climb at all - probably averages about 6% for 800m. Certainly, I used to ride up it on about 52 x 18 or 20 (as a reasonably fit rugby player, so obviously carrying some muscle mass). As such, I wouldn't expect it to cause any problems to the likes of Cavendish. Also, there's a long and reasonably flat run back to the finish, so even if someone gets away they'll need 3 or 4 minutes as they leave the circuit part of the course.

It's a shame they've centred on that climb, as there are several more challenging climbs within a few miles of there (a couple of roads up Leith Hill are longer and steeper, and the climb up Pebble Combe i.e. the back of Box Hill, averages 14% - only problem is that there's a level crossing, so using that road would disrupt train services as well as the local road traffic).

dummy_half

Posts : 4419
Join date : 2011-03-11
Age : 45
Location : East Hertfordshire

Back to top Go down

Re: Olympic Road Race Thread

Post by whocares on Tue 24 Jul 2012, 12:42 pm

cannot find it but do someone already know the list of the main contenders (I guess it's max 4 per country but not sure of the rest). thanks!

whocares

Posts : 3896
Join date : 2011-04-14
Age : 40
Location : France - paris area

Back to top Go down

Re: Olympic Road Race Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 24 Jul 2012, 1:01 pm

5 per country Who cares!! We have Wiggins, Froome, Millar, Stannard and Cavendish.

Cav is the main favourite, especially if it is a bunch sprint I can't see him losing. SO its either Cav or a breakaway for me
avatar
Good Golly I'm Olly

Posts : 42072
Join date : 2011-09-18
Age : 21
Location : Chris Woakes's wardrobe

Back to top Go down

Re: Olympic Road Race Thread

Post by dummy_half on Tue 24 Jul 2012, 1:34 pm

Olly

Don't count too many chickens yet - with only a 5 rider team, it is very difficult to control a race, even allowing for team GB having some guys who are capable of riding very quickly on the front of the bunch.

Cav stands a very good chance if the team can put him in the right place, but he will have competition both in a true bunch sprint and even moreso if it's an aggressive race, which could well favour Tom Boonen of Belgium.

Look for Belgium getting someone, perhaps Philip Gilbert, into a break in the first few laps of the Box Hill circuit, in an attempt to force Team GB to chase early and use some of their resources before the last 50km of flat back to the finish in central London, so opening up an opportunity for Boonen to attack later in the race. Oh, and Boonen is still a very fast sprinter, and is fresh having skipped the TdF in preparation for the Olympics.

dummy_half

Posts : 4419
Join date : 2011-03-11
Age : 45
Location : East Hertfordshire

Back to top Go down

Re: Olympic Road Race Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 24 Jul 2012, 1:42 pm

Boonen is a fast sprinter, but he isn't on the same level in a sprint that Cav is. Nobody is. When Cav gets it right, nobody will beat him. And I reckon he will get it right (hopefully)
avatar
Good Golly I'm Olly

Posts : 42072
Join date : 2011-09-18
Age : 21
Location : Chris Woakes's wardrobe

Back to top Go down

Re: Olympic Road Race Thread

Post by whocares on Tue 24 Jul 2012, 1:49 pm

tks guys

for what it is worth the french team for the road event is a total joke :
Sylvain Chavanel (Omega Pharma), Arnaud Démare (FDJ-BigMat), Tony Gallopin (RadioShack) and ...........Mickaël Bourgain (!!)

yes that the's track specialist (2 bronze medals in 2004/2008) who has been selected for the Keirin event but because of some rather unknown rule was forced into the road team (anyone competing for the keirin has to be selected for another cyclist event, can be road, another track event or even BMX).
shows how serious we are about road Sad poor Voeckler will stay at home unless Gallopin unjury is confirmed.


whocares

Posts : 3896
Join date : 2011-04-14
Age : 40
Location : France - paris area

Back to top Go down

Re: Olympic Road Race Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 24 Jul 2012, 1:54 pm

Wow no Tommy V!!!

Must admit I thought he might have been suited to this course, to make a break in the final kilometres. Strange team
avatar
Good Golly I'm Olly

Posts : 42072
Join date : 2011-09-18
Age : 21
Location : Chris Woakes's wardrobe

Back to top Go down

Re: Olympic Road Race Thread

Post by dummy_half on Tue 24 Jul 2012, 4:26 pm

Olly wrote:Boonen is a fast sprinter, but he isn't on the same level in a sprint that Cav is. Nobody is. When Cav gets it right, nobody will beat him. And I reckon he will get it right (hopefully)

Might want to look at the early season results - Boonen was back to winning bunch sprints including beating Cav a few times (which he hasn't done for a couple of seasons) as well as dominating the Flemish Classics. Also, Greipel is currently as fast a pure sprinter as Cav, but less able to deal with the hills (Cav's loss of weight for this year compromised him in the early Tour sprints, but really helped in the later ones because he got through the mountains with much less loss of form than Greipel or Goss). Obviously, Sagan could also be a factor (although Cav should beat him 9 times in 10 in a flat sprint), and there's the chance of a break holding out.

One interesting suggestion is that Team GB might look to get someone in the break (Millar / Wiggins) to make other teams chase rather than leaving them with all the work to do (which would definitely be the case if Cav is the only card we have to play).

dummy_half

Posts : 4419
Join date : 2011-03-11
Age : 45
Location : East Hertfordshire

Back to top Go down

Re: Olympic Road Race Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 24 Jul 2012, 4:33 pm

dummy_half wrote:
Olly wrote:Boonen is a fast sprinter, but he isn't on the same level in a sprint that Cav is. Nobody is. When Cav gets it right, nobody will beat him. And I reckon he will get it right (hopefully)

Might want to look at the early season results - Boonen was back to winning bunch sprints including beating Cav a few times (which he hasn't done for a couple of seasons) as well as dominating the Flemish Classics. Also, Greipel is currently as fast a pure sprinter as Cav, but less able to deal with the hills (Cav's loss of weight for this year compromised him in the early Tour sprints, but really helped in the later ones because he got through the mountains with much less loss of form than Greipel or Goss). Obviously, Sagan could also be a factor (although Cav should beat him 9 times in 10 in a flat sprint), and there's the chance of a break holding out.

One interesting suggestion is that Team GB might look to get someone in the break (Millar / Wiggins) to make other teams chase rather than leaving them with all the work to do (which would definitely be the case if Cav is the only card we have to play).

Boonen is a fast sprinter but when him and Cav are both on top form, Cav wins 9 times out of 10 in a sprint. Boonen beat him earlier in the year, because that is when his peak form is. He was amazing in the classics this season (helped by Cancellara's injury of course). Greipal I agree with, he is the only sprinter who can beat Cav when both are on top form in my opinion. Sagan I agree with, he is a better version of EBH in my opinion. Can climb well, decent at classics, good sprinter, has bags of potential.

I would like to see us send Millar in the break, he is a great man to have in the breakaway, as he showed at the TDF
avatar
Good Golly I'm Olly

Posts : 42072
Join date : 2011-09-18
Age : 21
Location : Chris Woakes's wardrobe

Back to top Go down

Re: Olympic Road Race Thread

Post by whocares on Tue 24 Jul 2012, 4:50 pm

dummy_half wrote:One interesting suggestion is that Team GB might look to get someone in the break (Millar / Wiggins) to make other teams chase rather than leaving them with all the work to do (which would definitely be the case if Cav is the only card we have to play).

am pretty sure most of the teams have only one sprinter so assume they will all try to get one member in the breaks. I personally think we will see many of them.

whocares

Posts : 3896
Join date : 2011-04-14
Age : 40
Location : France - paris area

Back to top Go down

Re: Olympic Road Race Thread

Post by Big on Tue 24 Jul 2012, 5:12 pm

whocares wrote:
am pretty sure most of the teams have only one sprinter so assume they will all try to get one member in the breaks. I personally think we will see many of them.

It will also be interesting to see the impact of the Olympic award system (i.e. medals for the top 3). Normally in cycling you either win or don't win, but here other sprinters can come behind Cav and still get an Olympic medal. May encourage other teams to put more of a shift in if they haven't got anyone in the breakaway.

Big

Posts : 594
Join date : 2011-08-18
Age : 36
Location : Durham

Back to top Go down

Re: Olympic Road Race Thread

Post by Azabache on Thu 26 Jul 2012, 4:13 pm

Like Dummy_Half I would have preferred some harder climbs in that area-a circuit up Leith Hill and White Downs (1km @ 18%!) then taking in Ranmore Common on the final loop, and Box Hill once, would have been possible, and would also have given more spectators the chance to view a la the Tour.

I agree that Box Hill shouldn't trouble the top riders-an Etape hack like me can get up when in the mood on a 50x19-but the circuit does have some poor road surface traps after the "climb" and one particularly nasty corner before Headley Heath.
No-one wishes an incident to occur but they'd better be careful.

My hunch is that they will all come together for a bunch sprint.

Azabache

Posts : 242
Join date : 2011-02-25
Location : Surrey

Back to top Go down

Re: Olympic Road Race Thread

Post by dummy_half on Thu 26 Jul 2012, 4:22 pm

Azabache wrote:
I agree that Box Hill shouldn't trouble the top riders-an Etape hack like me can get up when in the mood on a 50x19-but the circuit does have some poor road surface traps after the "climb" and one particularly nasty corner before Headley Heath.
No-one wishes an incident to occur but they'd better be careful.


Hmm - that stretch of road cost me one saddle, one pair of shorts and most of the skin between my hip and ankle. The scars are still there.

Front wheel hit a patch of gravel in the middle of the road on one of the down slope sections (doing about 30mph) - I saved the low side, only for the back wheel to slide out and throw me over the top of the bike and across the road.

Hope they've at least sent the road sweepers up there at some point in the last 15 years...

dummy_half

Posts : 4419
Join date : 2011-03-11
Age : 45
Location : East Hertfordshire

Back to top Go down

Re: Olympic Road Race Thread

Post by PJHolybloke on Sat 28 Jul 2012, 6:45 pm

Hi, can anyone explain to me in layman's terms (I'm a rugby man so please keep it simple) how the race turned into "the rest of the world vs GB"?

It's a phrase I've heard a couple of times today used to explain the disappointment of Cavendish not getting close to a medal.

Cavendish even said in his interview that it seemed that others didn't mind losing as long as he didn't win.

How does what other teams do make a difference? I watched a lot of highlights of the Tour de France and the final stage in full, and it seemed that Team Sky had it all nailed down to the minutest detail, what was so different about today's race (I know it wasn't Team Sky but it was a very strong British team and I would guess no bigger distance than a Tour stage)?

Any help for a cycling idiot greatly appreciated, I've never really paid much attention in the past, but the exploits of Team Sky this year have made me sit up and pay attention to the sport, I'd like to find out a bit more about it, ta very much in advance. Very Happy
avatar
PJHolybloke

Posts : 4599
Join date : 2011-05-02
Age : 50
Location : Republica Indipendiente Walsall, Black Country

Back to top Go down

Re: Olympic Road Race Thread

Post by Guest on Sat 28 Jul 2012, 6:56 pm

I think ultimately Cavendish lost because he is not good on hills like boxhill: it has to be nice and flat all the way, and he has to be behind others all the way (getting a tow and being shielded from the wind), up til the last few hundred metres. I think the rest of the British team spent too much energy getting Cavendish up the hill so that in the final lap, their energies were spent & a group of 22 managed to make the break.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Olympic Road Race Thread

Post by JDizzle on Sat 28 Jul 2012, 7:00 pm

I'm not very clued up on cycling either PJ, I have been hooked by the TdF in the past few years too! But basically Cavendish is recognised as the best flat sprinter in the world and most other countries in the world had accepted that if it came down to a bunch sprint and the end of the final circuit, 9/10 Cavendish would win it so they realised that the only chance they had was to get a group away from the main group and hold them off. And in addition in the TdF you have teams of 9, and even though Sky lost a man early they still had a team of 8, so it is much easier to reel breakaways in and control the pelaton with more riders but you only have 5 in a team in the Olympics, compared to the World Champs where you have 8 which Cav won last year, so it is hater to pull breakaways back in because you have less riders to help make the pace.

JDizzle

Posts : 4294
Join date : 2011-03-11

Back to top Go down

Re: Olympic Road Race Thread

Post by PJHolybloke on Sat 28 Jul 2012, 7:30 pm

OK, thanks guys.

So we picked out a course that wasn't good for our best medal hope (or is that cynical of me?), and the team was too small to control the race, fair enough; but I still don't get why other teams not "wanting to win" apparently hampered GB.

They were'nt moaning about it as they all said (in the 3 interviews I saw) that they were expecting it to be like that, and I think it was Millar that said only the Germans were interested in racing...

It's clearly a very strategic sport, but some of it is so damned subtle it's beyond me. Headscratch

PS JD, I found the TdF fascinating, perhaps if I knew what was going on I'd get even more enjoyment out of it. Laugh
avatar
PJHolybloke

Posts : 4599
Join date : 2011-05-02
Age : 50
Location : Republica Indipendiente Walsall, Black Country

Back to top Go down

Re: Olympic Road Race Thread

Post by Guest on Sat 28 Jul 2012, 9:00 pm

PJHolybloke wrote:... but I still don't get why other teams not "wanting to win" apparently hampered GB. ...
That's just Cav being upset that others in the main peleton didn't support the GB team in helping them up the hill. I think most of the other nations knew that the best chance of their nation winning the gold (and other medals) was to hope for a break away, and not supporting the GB team in getting Cav to the front ... because Cav would out-sprint them.







Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Olympic Road Race Thread

Post by snoopster on Sat 28 Jul 2012, 10:16 pm

Nore Staat wrote:
PJHolybloke wrote:... but I still don't get why other teams not "wanting to win" apparently hampered GB. ...
That's just Cav being upset that others in the main peleton didn't support the GB team in helping them up the hill. I think most of the other nations knew that the best chance of their nation winning the gold (and other medals) was to hope for a break away, and not supporting the GB team in getting Cav to the front ... because Cav would out-sprint them.

No, it was something he has commented on before and which Germany illustrated in this race - they didn't get anything from the race but if they had worked flat out to help GB make it a sprint finish then Greipel would have been looking in with a great chance of a silver at least if not a gold (which is a hell of better chance of a gold than they had). Surely that is better than setting Greipel up to sprint for 27th?
Cavendish has a flat when he crossed the line, according to one of the GB coaches - if Australia and Germany had worked with GB to pull back the break and that had happened, they would have had Goss and Greipel battling for the gold.
Too often teams and riders prefer to take a sure lose rather than take the chance of getting a 1 in 10 9or whatever) shot at a win.

snoopster

Posts : 376
Join date : 2011-05-31

Back to top Go down

Re: Olympic Road Race Thread

Post by Guest on Sat 28 Jul 2012, 10:28 pm

A fair riposte: Germany had no-one in the break and they could have got at least a silver. It does seem that the majority of the work was done by the Brits supporting Cavendish: with everybody else just sitting behind them (apart from those in the breaks). I just hope the effort they put into it doesn't affect their own chances in the time trial.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Olympic Road Race Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 28 Jul 2012, 10:38 pm

Can I just say the Germans not helping is completely baffling, and really backs up Cav's point.

They had no man in the breakaway, and in Greipel in my opinion they have the one sprinter that could beat Cav on his day. So why not work for at least a medal???? IT MAKES NO SENSE GODDAMN STUPID GERMANS
avatar
Good Golly I'm Olly

Posts : 42072
Join date : 2011-09-18
Age : 21
Location : Chris Woakes's wardrobe

Back to top Go down

Re: Olympic Road Race Thread

Post by PJHolybloke on Sat 28 Jul 2012, 10:59 pm

I know you're trying to help fellas, and you probably just think I'm a thick egg-chaser, but what I don't get is how other teams racing would help GB.

Is it just a psychological thing? Surely whatever happens you've got to cover the same mileage as everyone else, so whoever covers it the quickest wins the race?

I'm struggling with this one massively. Headscratch
avatar
PJHolybloke

Posts : 4599
Join date : 2011-05-02
Age : 50
Location : Republica Indipendiente Walsall, Black Country

Back to top Go down

Re: Olympic Road Race Thread

Post by snoopster on Sat 28 Jul 2012, 11:07 pm

PJHolybloke wrote:I know you're trying to help fellas, and you probably just think I'm a thick egg-chaser, but what I don't get is how other teams racing would help GB.

Is it just a psychological thing? Surely whatever happens you've got to cover the same mileage as everyone else, so whoever covers it the quickest wins the race?

I'm struggling with this one massively. Headscratch

Slipstreaming. I can't remember the exact figure but I think it is around 20-30% less energy is reckoned to be used by the rider slipstreaming the one in front.

snoopster

Posts : 376
Join date : 2011-05-31

Back to top Go down

Re: Olympic Road Race Thread

Post by Guest on Sat 28 Jul 2012, 11:27 pm

PJHolybloke wrote:I know you're trying to help fellas, and you probably just think I'm a thick egg-chaser, but what I don't get is how other teams racing would help GB ....
As has now been mentioned by others it is not that they didn't help GB, they didn't help themselves. The example given is the Germans. They had no-one in the break, and they did nothing in the peleton, they just sat behind the Brits, and they all lost. The Brits left everything on the road - they did the hard work and can feel they did their best. The Germans had plenty of energy in the tank, they wasted their Olympic chance. David Millar in the post-race interview explains it well. André Greipel aged 30 had a good chance of getting a medal - but Team Germany didn't put any effort into the race, so Greipel will likely finish his career without an Olympic medal.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Olympic Road Race Thread

Post by PJHolybloke on Sat 28 Jul 2012, 11:52 pm

snoopster wrote:
PJHolybloke wrote:I know you're trying to help fellas, and you probably just think I'm a thick egg-chaser, but what I don't get is how other teams racing would help GB.

Is it just a psychological thing? Surely whatever happens you've got to cover the same mileage as everyone else, so whoever covers it the quickest wins the race?

I'm struggling with this one massively. Headscratch

Slipstreaming. I can't remember the exact figure but I think it is around 20-30% less energy is reckoned to be used by the rider slipstreaming the one in front.

20-30% from slipstreaming the guy in front! Are you sure? That sounds massive, more like the advantage you'd get from slipstreaming a truck.

But I think I'm getting somewhere here.

So the Germans and Australians were in the peleton and didn't have any riders in the leading pack, but rather than try to spread the workload around at the front of the peleton, they let team GB do all the work and by doing so left themselves with no chance either, right?

I remember during the final stage in Paris last Sunday the gap was around 30-odd seconds with a couple of laps to go and the peleton made that up pretty quickly, I don't recall the details but I take it they were swapping around up front then and sort of working together?

That being the case, did the Germans and Australians deliberately not do anything today just to stop Cavendish having a shot, or did they think team GB would be good enough to catch the leaders but leave them with more energy for the last couple of kilometres? It seems mad that they'd give up a chance for a medal just to stop GB having a chance, that's not sport, surely?



avatar
PJHolybloke

Posts : 4599
Join date : 2011-05-02
Age : 50
Location : Republica Indipendiente Walsall, Black Country

Back to top Go down

Re: Olympic Road Race Thread

Post by Guest on Sun 29 Jul 2012, 12:06 am

The Australians had one in the break (Stuart O'Grady) but he is well past his best at 38. Their best chance was their young sprinter Matthew Goss who in the not so recent past has beaten Cavendish. But the Australian team in the peleton sat back and did nothing.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Olympic Road Race Thread

Post by PJHolybloke on Sun 29 Jul 2012, 12:10 am

Well at least I understand why other teams not trying would make a difference to GB, even if I don't understand their motives for not trying, that just doesn't make any sense to me.

Thanks for all the info, I'd be really interested to find out just how beneficial slipstreaming is though - I'll do some research tomorrow. OK
avatar
PJHolybloke

Posts : 4599
Join date : 2011-05-02
Age : 50
Location : Republica Indipendiente Walsall, Black Country

Back to top Go down

Re: Olympic Road Race Thread

Post by snoopster on Sun 29 Jul 2012, 12:33 am

PJHolybloke wrote:20-30% from slipstreaming the guy in front! Are you sure? That sounds massive, more like the advantage you'd get from slipstreaming a truck.

But I think I'm getting somewhere here.

So the Germans and Australians were in the peleton and didn't have any riders in the leading pack, but rather than try to spread the workload around at the front of the peleton, they let team GB do all the work and by doing so left themselves with no chance either, right?

I remember during the final stage in Paris last Sunday the gap was around 30-odd seconds with a couple of laps to go and the peleton made that up pretty quickly, I don't recall the details but I take it they were swapping around up front then and sort of working together?

That being the case, did the Germans and Australians deliberately not do anything today just to stop Cavendish having a shot, or did they think team GB would be good enough to catch the leaders but leave them with more energy for the last couple of kilometres? It seems mad that they'd give up a chance for a medal just to stop GB having a chance, that's not sport, surely?

I'm afraid I'm too lazy to try and find the exact figure but it is around that, there is a massive benefit from being in another rider's slipstream - it is why the riders pack so tightly in together (a truck being so much bigger creates a far bigger slipstream so you don't need to be as close to get in it), it means there is more chance of a crash but the gains vastly outweigh the risk.

the way it works is the riders putting the effort in will constantly rotate - a brief spell at the front than peel off and drop to the back, so they can maximize their effort on the front to keep the pace up.
I think it is a mixture - it is harder to motivate yourself to put a real shift in if you know that you will probably just be helping your rival beat you but part of the calculation is also bluffing, they know GB will ride hard on the front regardless of what they do so if they judge it just right then they can end up letting GB do more of the work... but this time they got it wrong.
For Australia, they did have a rider in the break but the reality is that their sprinter had a far better chance of getting a medal in a sprint than their guy in the break away had of getting one.

snoopster

Posts : 376
Join date : 2011-05-31

Back to top Go down

Re: Olympic Road Race Thread

Post by alfie on Sun 29 Jul 2012, 7:39 am

It was indeed baffling why Germany did not join in with a serious effort to pull back the breakaway. As many have said , Greipel would have had a chance of Gold , and a very probable minor medal , in a bunch sprint...as it was they had no hope of anything. The Australian tactics were also a little odd as surely Goss represented their best chance of success , though it is possible that with O'Grady in the break and Evans perhaps still well off his best they didn't really have any confidence in their ability to set Goss up , and so elected to take their chances that GB might do all the work for them. Does rather seem as if an obsession with stopping Cavendish has caused strong teams to shoot themselves in the foot...
To be honest it didn't surprise me all that much , and I doubt it surprised the GB team either. It is just the way of the Olympic road race , which is a rare creature in that its very nature ensures that the pre-race favourite is almost certain not to win.

alfie

Posts : 8033
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Melbourne.

Back to top Go down

Re: Olympic Road Race Thread

Post by Big on Sun 29 Jul 2012, 8:10 am

It's about 10 years since I've competed and trained hard, but the figure that was bandied about by the guys that I trained with was that you used about 30% less energy when slipstreaming. I'm not exactly sure where that figure came from, but some of them were pro/elite level cyclists so I doubt they made it up - if anyone really wants to know I can probably ask around. Certainly based on my experience you can feel a massive difference between leading a group and being in the middle and having felt the difference I can easily believe the 30% figure.

However, that slipstream benefit is on the flat. On the hills slipstreaming makes much less difference. From experience I'd say the difference is almost negligible at anything over say 6% gradient. That's why it is such a good place for riders to attack and break away, other riders can't just get into their slipstream and keep up with them at 30% less effort... So comments that the team were using too much energy getting Cav up Box Hill are a little misleading - clearly they haven't grabbed his handle bars and pulled him up. If anything they use a little less energy as they slow down to a pace he can manage. The problem is that the more they slow down the more time they have to make up afterwards.

As to why the Aussies and Germans weren't more willing to help GB chase the breakaway. There are I think a couple of reasons. First is the normal cycling mindset. In most races there is no prize for second place, there is no silver medal in the world championships, grand tours and monuments, so their brains are geared to win or don't bother. That may have been a bit of an issue. The second problem, specific to yesterday is that (I think) there were no race radios. Normally the riders have an ear piece in with their support team telling them how far ahead the breakaway is, how many riders there are in it (and how good they are), and they get a lot of feedback on when to attack. It's quite likely that the Germans and Aussies genuinely didn't realise until it was too late that team GB wouldn't catch the breakaway alone. They were probably gambling on GB doing all the chasing and having nothing left to set Cav up for the sprint.

Big

Posts : 594
Join date : 2011-08-18
Age : 36
Location : Durham

Back to top Go down

Re: Olympic Road Race Thread

Post by PJHolybloke on Sun 29 Jul 2012, 10:45 am

Morning all, I've done my research and can confirm that Snoopster was spot on with the figure of 30%, something which I found absolutely amazing.

Here is a link to an online tuition vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKQ9USiKcDE&feature=player_detailpage



I also found a similar link showing how a rotating paceline works where all riders in a team take their share of the workload:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKQ9USiKcDE&feature=player_detailpage



Last but not least an actual video of a rotating paceline from a pro-cycling team in the US, they are tearing up the Pacific Highway at a hell of a pace too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbqZCrqV_wE&feature=player_detailpage


I guess we'll never know what happened with Australia/Germany unless they choose to go on record with their thoughts, but I now feel as though I'm better equipped to start understanding some of the subtle moves in what is a very complex sport.

Thanks for the help guys, fascinating. OK


avatar
PJHolybloke

Posts : 4599
Join date : 2011-05-02
Age : 50
Location : Republica Indipendiente Walsall, Black Country

Back to top Go down

Re: Olympic Road Race Thread

Post by LastDamnation on Sun 29 Jul 2012, 7:19 pm

What I found far more baffling was the tactics in the break - two go up the road and there's no reaction. They can't all have thought their best chance was in a 25-man sprint for 3rd?

LastDamnation

Posts : 428
Join date : 2012-03-28

Back to top Go down

Re: Olympic Road Race Thread

Post by snoopster on Sun 29 Jul 2012, 8:36 pm

LastDamnation wrote:What I found far more baffling was the tactics in the break - two go up the road and there's no reaction. They can't all have thought their best chance was in a 25-man sprint for 3rd?

Much the same as the Germans not being will to help GB - none of them wanted to be the one who used up their energy to pull back the two man break and instead relying on another rider doing it... but since all of them were waiting, it just let the two riders get away. They ended up losing their chance of silver or gold because they were all busy sat there calling each other's bluff rather than chasing.

snoopster

Posts : 376
Join date : 2011-05-31

Back to top Go down

Re: Olympic Road Race Thread

Post by PJHolybloke on Sun 29 Jul 2012, 11:44 pm

I may be speaking out of turn here being a total noob, but I thought Poolie rode an exceptionally good race up until the end of the Boxhill circuit, and Armitstead made the decision that someone (possibly Wiggins?) should have made yesterday in the men's race as mentioned by LastDamnation.

It's pretty obvious now (with hindsight) that the run home is very quick, even in the rain, so to let anyone come out of Boxhill with an advantage of anything more than 20 seconds was a big mistake. Armitstead grasped the nettle and went after the Russian today and it paid off, yesterday the Columbian and Kazakhstani were allowed to get away and effectively it was race over for GB.

Am I just getting carried away by TdF fever, or would Wiggins have stood a better bet of picking up a medal for GB if he had followed the break?

I know he's not classed as a sprinter, but were either of the two riders who finished first and second?
avatar
PJHolybloke

Posts : 4599
Join date : 2011-05-02
Age : 50
Location : Republica Indipendiente Walsall, Black Country

Back to top Go down

Re: Olympic Road Race Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 29 Jul 2012, 11:46 pm

If any one of our riders were to go in a break in the men's race PJ it would have been Millar I suspect. He is very good in a breakaway, and has a lot more experience of it unlike a Wiggins
avatar
Good Golly I'm Olly

Posts : 42072
Join date : 2011-09-18
Age : 21
Location : Chris Woakes's wardrobe

Back to top Go down

Re: Olympic Road Race Thread

Post by PJHolybloke on Sun 29 Jul 2012, 11:58 pm

And there you have it - I still know nowt. Very Happy

I'm willing to work at it though, I had no idea how complex it was - a bit like chess on two-wheels.

Are the indoor events any easier to understand? Maybe I've got a chance there? Laugh
avatar
PJHolybloke

Posts : 4599
Join date : 2011-05-02
Age : 50
Location : Republica Indipendiente Walsall, Black Country

Back to top Go down

Re: Olympic Road Race Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 29 Jul 2012, 11:59 pm

PJHolybloke wrote:And there you have it - I still know nowt. Very Happy

I'm willing to work at it though, I had no idea how complex it was - a bit like chess on two-wheels.

Are the indoor events any easier to understand? Maybe I've got a chance there? Laugh

The indoor events - some of them are mental. I don't understand myself Laugh
avatar
Good Golly I'm Olly

Posts : 42072
Join date : 2011-09-18
Age : 21
Location : Chris Woakes's wardrobe

Back to top Go down

Re: Olympic Road Race Thread

Post by PJHolybloke on Mon 30 Jul 2012, 12:17 am

Bollix! I feel like I've made some progress over the last 4 weeks, I may end up going backwards then... Erm
avatar
PJHolybloke

Posts : 4599
Join date : 2011-05-02
Age : 50
Location : Republica Indipendiente Walsall, Black Country

Back to top Go down

Re: Olympic Road Race Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon 30 Jul 2012, 12:18 am

PJHolybloke wrote:Bollix! I feel like I've made some progress over the last 4 weeks, I may end up going backwards then... Erm

Mate I think road cycling and track cycling are miles apart. Different sports. You seem to have road cycling all but there OK
avatar
Good Golly I'm Olly

Posts : 42072
Join date : 2011-09-18
Age : 21
Location : Chris Woakes's wardrobe

Back to top Go down

Re: Olympic Road Race Thread

Post by PJHolybloke on Mon 30 Jul 2012, 12:25 am

OK, thanks for the encouragement, I'll forget road-cycling and start with a blank canvass then. Is that the best approach?
avatar
PJHolybloke

Posts : 4599
Join date : 2011-05-02
Age : 50
Location : Republica Indipendiente Walsall, Black Country

Back to top Go down

Re: Olympic Road Race Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon 30 Jul 2012, 12:27 am

PJHolybloke wrote:OK, thanks for the encouragement, I'll forget road-cycling and start with a blank canvass then. Is that the best approach?

Just sit and enjoy it mate. It will all come the more you watch it. That's what I have found. Watch the track cycling in the Olympics and I suggest watch the Vuelta coming up in August on the road. It should be a cracker thumbsup
avatar
Good Golly I'm Olly

Posts : 42072
Join date : 2011-09-18
Age : 21
Location : Chris Woakes's wardrobe

Back to top Go down

Re: Olympic Road Race Thread

Post by PJHolybloke on Mon 30 Jul 2012, 12:36 am

Done, Wiggins is the current holder of the Vuelta isn't he?

I do feel as though I've got a mistress in my life at the moment, the cycling season doesn't clash with the rugby season does it?

I'm up for anything that fills the gap between May and September. Very Happy
avatar
PJHolybloke

Posts : 4599
Join date : 2011-05-02
Age : 50
Location : Republica Indipendiente Walsall, Black Country

Back to top Go down

Re: Olympic Road Race Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon 30 Jul 2012, 12:43 am

PJHolybloke wrote:Done, Wiggins is the current holder of the Vuelta isn't he?

I do feel as though I've got a mistress in my life at the moment, the cycling season doesn't clash with the rugby season does it?

I'm up for anything that fills the gap between May and September. Very Happy

Haha!!

Cobo is the holder of the Vuelta, last year Wiggins was 3rd with Froome 2nd. OK

Cycling season is a long one. Usually starts around Jan-Feb time through till Oct-Nov time. Although the Classics in April, The Giro in May, The Tour in July, The Vuelta in August/Sept and The Worlds in Oct are the main events
avatar
Good Golly I'm Olly

Posts : 42072
Join date : 2011-09-18
Age : 21
Location : Chris Woakes's wardrobe

Back to top Go down

Re: Olympic Road Race Thread

Post by PJHolybloke on Mon 30 Jul 2012, 12:54 am

Smile Despite the fact that I'm 45 I feel like a boy learning. Laugh

Thanks for the patience, I'm off to me cot now as I've a 6.30 wake up in the morning.

You're in danger of becoming my go-to man on all matters cycling Olly.

Nite. OK
avatar
PJHolybloke

Posts : 4599
Join date : 2011-05-02
Age : 50
Location : Republica Indipendiente Walsall, Black Country

Back to top Go down

Re: Olympic Road Race Thread

Post by Big on Mon 30 Jul 2012, 12:14 pm

Surprised it is unmentioned as yet, but obviously I'm chuffed with Lizzie's result. Demonstrated brilliantly why it is worth getting someone in the breakaway. Though a breakaway with Vos and Armitstead is hardly what you might call a Plan B.

Big

Posts : 594
Join date : 2011-08-18
Age : 36
Location : Durham

Back to top Go down

Re: Olympic Road Race Thread

Post by Azabache on Mon 30 Jul 2012, 5:47 pm

I was there at Box Hill most of the day and there were 2 schools of thought amongst good judges: 1-a gap of 2 minutes would easily be bridged by the peleton; 2-even a gap of 1 minute would be hard to bridge.

Well we know now who was more shrewd.

Factors that seem relevant?: no team radios seems to have exposed many riders not versed in the old arts of manually judging a race; advertising to all and sundry beforehand what your tactics are going to be; naively expecting help from other nationalities when it should have been obvious that they had other agendas; the very poor in-race info. from the race organisers; not having a good ol' blood 'n' guts roller prepared to hammer out a pace at the front, particularly when a breakaway full of dangerous foes was forming and getting away-OK, they couldn't have Hincapie but I would have thought that Millar could have been utilised more; the recognition early on that a false pace was being run with all the later dangers pretty obvious (e.g. lurkers saving 30% energy in the peleton); need I go on?

What was NOT relevant was "tiredness from the Tour" that ignorant presenters were spouting.

The sense of growing despair in that cafe in the bike shop after the last circuit was palpable and too reminiscent of following the England football team!

A great day out though. Let's hope we don't get an unwelcome announcement about Vino in the days ahead.

I personally enjoyed more the women's race the next day on TV-they'd learnt from the prats on Saturday and we enjoyed a master class in the three leaders working together. Brilliant!

Here's to Wednesday...

Azabache

Posts : 242
Join date : 2011-02-25
Location : Surrey

Back to top Go down

Re: Olympic Road Race Thread

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum