PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher

Page 3 of 4 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Go down

PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 3 Empty PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Tue 31 Jul 2012, 8:00 pm

First topic message reminder :

1).Congratulations to Scott Piercy, last year's winner in the rarified Reno air and now off to Firestone CC and Akron, Ohio's "WGC Bridgestone Invitational" as RBC Canadian Open Champion. Travel plans changed at a stroke, or at least those strokes of the stumbling Dirt McGirt and Garrigus as they bogeyed their way to a podium finish rather than the Canadian club's gold they'd been in the driving seat to achieve.

2).Neither Piercy nor Garrigus have ever been close to my top 200 favourite golfers, but they both hit it a mile and have steadily improved their all-round game to become regular Top 25 finishers on Tour. Garrigus has apparently matured following his pot-headed mini-Tour career and this was his third runner-up effort of the year, while Piercy has moved on from being voted 6th cockiest player on Tour in Sports Illustrated.

3).Surrey's Gary Christian made the cut on the number but enjoyed a terrific weekend to claim a share of 10th place, with Brian Davis continuing his consistent season one shot further back. But disappointment for Greg Owen and Russell Knox whose success on Thursday and Friday was not matched at the weekend. What does it all mean?
~Davis: All but certain to qualify for the first three Play-Off tournaments.
~Owen: Certain to play Barclays and Deutsche Bank, but needs at least one top finish to have a chance to reach the BMW.
~Christian: Currently inside the Top 125 (118) and playing this week in Reno where another good finish would probably cement his Barclays place and go a long way to secure his "playing privileges" for 2013.
~Knox: Disappointing weekend and needs a miracle in Reno and/or Greensboro to be eligible for the Barclays. Q-School more likely unless he can start stringing four rounds together.

4).The calendar going forward looks like this:
Aug 2nd - 5th: Bridgestone and Reno.
Aug 9th - 12th: PGA Championship, no "opposite field' event.
Aug 16th - 19th: Wyndham Championship in Greensboro, NC.
Aug 23rd thru Sept 23rd: Barclays, Deutsche Bank, BMW, Tour Championship.

5).pgatour.com lists "Bert Wray" as the original architect of Firestone CC's South Course, venue for this week's WGC Bridgestone Invitational. A little research shows that Bert Way emigrated from Westward Ho! in Devon at Musselburgh's Willie Dunn's instigation shortly after Dunn began work on Shinnecock Hills. Way later finished 2nd in the 1899 US Open before he turned his hand full-time to course architecture. Firestone is just one of a number of well-regarded courses Way designed, primarily in Michigan and Ohio. Not sure how the course stood the test of time from the 1920's thru the 50's, but Robert Trent Jones stiffened it considerably in his late-fifties restoration and now plays at a stout par-70 7,400 yards for the pros.

6).Firestone is either a terrific test or a boring parkland course on steroids depending on which "expert" one listens to. It can appear one dimensional on TV with it's seemingly non-stop diet of look-alike 400+ yard par 4's, mostly dead straight. Although the Tour pros are almost unanimous in calling it "solid and classic" it's also slagged off for being "boring" and criticised for the PGA Tour's set-up, with special criticism reserved for the tee shots and canting fairways.
Whether one is tired of Firestone CC and its Bridgestone set-up or not, WGC status surely cries out for taking its show on the road.

7).Meanwhile, there's nothing boring about Jack Nicklaus's Montreux G&CC that hosts this week's "Reno-Tahoe Open". At 5,000 feet, the Touring Pros hit it further here than anywhere - last year's tee shots were reportedly the longest on Shot Link record. Not sure if some of the geriatric crew on hand this year will keep that distance up; over twenty golfers who originally "committed" to this week have bagged it and the alternate list is overstocked with Seniors who can't qualify for the 78-man field for this week's Champions Tour event. Wish they'd fill the field from the qualifying list rather than the retreads foisted on Reno.

8).But some top pros are here nevertheless, led by Padraig Harrington looking to sharpen his game for Kiawah's PGA Championship. Other "faces" who are looking to secure Play-Off berths include Appleby, Villegas, Weekley, Gay, Romero, DiMarco, Leonard, Cink and even a resurgent John Daly. Europeans Cejka, Chopra, Christian, Johnson and Knox are there, all with various objectives, but I fancy the chances of old-lag-type pros with course form, Rollins, say, Henry, Matteson, Perez or Vaughn Taylor. Tune in, even if just for the spectacle of the gorgeous Sierra Nevada.
And: Remember, this week signals a return to the "modified Stableford" scoring system.

9).Its a long way from Reno to Akron, as John Denver might have sung, and as Scott Piercy can tell you. Tiger Woods has a fantastic record here, seven wins and counting, and all eyes will presumably be on his driver. Whatever the constraints of his "gameplan" at Lytham, he has to unleash the driver at Firestone and, if he can only keep it in the short grass, he'll once again be the man to beat. It is well documented that the American Mid-West has endured a long, hot summer, but Akron has at least had some recent rain to keep the place from burning out completely.

10).Europe hasn't celebrated a winner here since Darren Clarke beat Jonathan Kaye and Tiger in 2003, though runners up since this stop became a WGC include Phillip Price, Rose, Westwood, Harrington and Donald. No doubt if Steve Williams were to win again it would equal his greatest ever triumph, but if Woods can hit some fairways it would be a brave punter to bet against his hstory here.

kwinigolfer

Posts : 25691
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont

Back to top Go down


PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 3 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by mystiroakey on Sat 04 Aug 2012, 7:32 pm

gmac,rory and donald also up ther!

great event as well. sods law this .. Might have to catch up on some later on!

mystiroakey

Posts : 32472
Join date : 2011-03-06
Age : 42
Location : surrey

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 3 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by princedracula on Sat 04 Aug 2012, 7:37 pm

Rumour has it that Taniguchi withdrew because of some stomach problems...

Bad start from Rafa, but great from the two NI Macs...

princedracula

Posts : 3258
Join date : 2011-06-26

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 3 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by GPB on Sat 04 Aug 2012, 7:54 pm

News on Toru's WD

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/playerbreakingnews.asp?sport=GOL&id=260&line=18246&spln=1

But doesn't explain why he completely disappeared from the scoreboard and field list.


GPB

Posts : 6494
Join date : 2012-02-10
Location : Midwest, USA

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 3 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by princedracula on Sat 04 Aug 2012, 9:06 pm

I hope Lee's OK...

I was just trying to look back when was the last time he had a round in the 80's (checked only the PGA Tour and European Tour records). And the closest I found was an 80 at the Players in 2005, more than 7 years ago!!

Interesting that he had a couple of 79s before/after that: two at Masters ('09 and '07), two at Bridgestone(!) ('07 and '06) and one at a US Open ('04). Obviously, all in the USA! The last round in the 80's in Europe was almost 10 years ago, at the Algarve Open in April 2003...

princedracula

Posts : 3258
Join date : 2011-06-26

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 3 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by princedracula on Sat 04 Aug 2012, 9:34 pm

Rory tweeted this morning...

Teeing it up with @DJohnsonPGA today... I am determined to out drive him at least once in this round!

Looking at shot track, he actually out drove DJ in all but a couple of holes! Rory's score today is -3, DJ's is +3...

Good starts from Padraig and Gary Christian in Reno...

princedracula

Posts : 3258
Join date : 2011-06-26

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 3 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by NedB-H on Sat 04 Aug 2012, 10:22 pm

Doubt the golf is attracting much interest at the moment... hopefully even the dubious NBC coverage showed tonights athletics live, can't remember ever seeing a night like that for a home nation before. But anyway... good to see Padraig hitting the front and Christian only one back in Reno, shame to see RCB imploding though.

NedB-H

Posts : 2147
Join date : 2011-01-27
Location : Kent / Ceredigion

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 3 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Sat 04 Aug 2012, 11:34 pm

Live on CTV thank goodness, long since given up on NBC.

3 fairways for Westwood, 36 putts. Not sure that Florida will be the answer, six months off might be better medicine, but the real spectre of missing out on the third and fourth Play Off events is on the horizon unless he can start hitting it straight. Come back Billy Foster . . . .

Four Open Champions in the Reno Top Ten, think I'll go and watch.

kwinigolfer

Posts : 25691
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 3 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by GPB on Sun 05 Aug 2012, 12:17 am

kwinigolfer wrote:Live on CTV thank goodness, long since given up on NBC.

3 fairways for Westwood, 36 putts. Not sure that Florida will be the answer, six months off might be better medicine, but the real spectre of missing out on the third and fourth Play Off events is on the horizon unless he can start hitting it straight. Come back Billy Foster . . . .

Four Open Champions in the Reno Top Ten, think I'll go and watch.

Rolling back the clock in Reno. Daly near the top of the leaderboard. Erm

Missing BMW and TC for Westwood means that he has to play two other events. Will he play Greensboro? or take his chances and with the fall series as a failsafe.

I find it kind of funny with these Euros (and near Euros) think that they can cruise right into the Tour Championship as their 15th event. Last year Poulter had to play Greensboro at the last minute to make sure he didn't have to play a fall Series. Oosthuizen had to play McGladreys. Stenson had to play fall Series events a couple of years ago.

Poulter and Schwartzel are in 15 tournament trouble too, and neither is even close to getting to the BMW. Charl is not even guaranteed Deutschebank.

Next year, the fall series back up is not going to be available as the TC will be the last event of the year.



Yes I know Oosty and Charl are South African, but they are in Camp Chubby, so IMO, they have a similar mentality.

GPB

Posts : 6494
Join date : 2012-02-10
Location : Midwest, USA

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 3 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Sun 05 Aug 2012, 12:33 am

GPB,
Completely agree with all that, Finchem's handcuffs is what I call it!
Goosen potentially is another one in trouble, and gawd knows about Karlsson. If he wants any PGA Tour status he'll have to go the Stenson Fall Series route and hope he makes some money.

kwinigolfer

Posts : 25691
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 3 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by Shotrock on Sun 05 Aug 2012, 1:47 am

This parkland course set up for a charge from Rory tomorrow. You read it here first.

Perhaps Chubby advising his clients to rest up for that Asian tour that's sure to surpass the US opportunities ... what is it, just a couple more years Chubby?


Shotrock

Posts : 3454
Join date : 2011-05-10
Location : Philadelphia

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 3 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Sun 05 Aug 2012, 2:14 am

Chubby's got it totally wrong with his players' schedule in the States.

And as long as the Majors are 75% here, say for at least another 100 years, golfers' highest ambition will always be rooted in being successful in the US. Lots of ways to achieve that as the European greats of the past have shown, but fart-arsing around Asia for easy money and the occasional few ranking points is not it.

Nine Europeans in the top 20 overnight shows the golfers are good enough; hopefully Rory will prove Shotrock right!

kwinigolfer

Posts : 25691
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 3 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by robopz on Sun 05 Aug 2012, 10:19 am

kwinigolfer wrote:Chubby's got it totally wrong with his players' schedule in the States.
Hard to argue with that.

Bottom line with the dual tour Euro guys is they need to decide WHY they're PGAT members in the first place, or their scheduling can become a nightmare. Obviously not a problem for the few who can consistently do well in the 7 big co-sanctioned event. But even one year with a little hiccup in the biggies or a missed event or two due to injury or other... and it can be big trouble meeting the minimums.

I know majors are the big thing... but if the Euro's don't commit to doing well in the FedEx Cup then they have all kind of potential issues with the PGAT. The PGAT is DEEP... and you have so many quality full time PGAT guys playing 25 plus, it's a tough ask for the Euro's to consistently get into 3 of the Playoff events playing only 11 or 12 coming in. And unless your a real stud... even making top-125 and keeping your card is not a gut cinch lock.

IMO, what may be an unpopular truth for the Euro guys... to succeed as a dual tour guy, they almost have to use the PGAT as their primary tour and play much less on the Euro Tour.

robopz

Posts : 3233
Join date : 2012-04-23
Location : Texas

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 3 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Sun 05 Aug 2012, 12:13 pm

No "almost" about it. Donald, Rose, Sergio, Poulter, Padraig etc make no pretence at prioritizing the European Tour and you can't blame them.


Now! Looks like there's been some overnight rain in Akron but not enough to significantly soften up the course. But more storms forecast before midday - we'll see. Meanwhile, the first groups will be off, both tees and in threesomes, at 8.00 a.m., 1.00 p.m. in Weymouth.

kwinigolfer

Posts : 25691
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 3 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Sun 05 Aug 2012, 2:46 pm

Back to the Firestone clubhouse for the Bridgestone boys, time to sit down and enjoy their breakfast at Wimbledon.

Significant rainfall expected as a front full of thunderstorms passes through Ohio - it's OK, they need the rain.

And the sceptic in me wonders whether any WGC participants, back markers especially, will bank the $35 grand plus just for qualifying and head straight to Kiawah Island. Obviously that money would be unofficial and any owgr or FedEx points would be negated so FedEx bubble boys and Ryder Cup aspirants need to stick around.

kwinigolfer

Posts : 25691
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 3 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Sun 05 Aug 2012, 4:55 pm

Still a risk of p.m. storminess, but play will resume at the Bridgestone at noon.

Quite emotional at Wimbledon, wonder if that changes any perceptions in the value of golf in the Olympics. Still against it myself, proof of the pudding may be determined by the structure of the events.

Meanwhile, lots to play for at the Bridgestone, and at Reno where play is on the move.

kwinigolfer

Posts : 25691
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 3 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by GPB on Sun 05 Aug 2012, 5:11 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:GPB,
Completely agree with all that, Finchem's handcuffs is what I call it!
Goosen potentially is another one in trouble, and gawd knows about Karlsson. If he wants any PGA Tour status he'll have to go the Stenson Fall Series route and hope he makes some money.

Another tacit insult to Tim Finchem?

Not handcuffs. A requirement.

Membership has its privileges, and Memberships has its obligations.

There is reason why most of the top Euros are members of the PGAT.

Finchem cannot make policy (yes he does influence policy) but Finchem works for the PGAT, the PGAT does not work for him.

The top Euros are going to play 7 tournaments that count towards membership. IMO, it is not a hardship to ask them 8 more tournaments. 8 more tournaments that have at least a $5 Million purse and a nearly Million first prize.

Its not like the PGAT is asking the Westwoods, Poulters etc to play the Sicilian Open and its 2 million dollar purse.



GPB

Posts : 6494
Join date : 2012-02-10
Location : Midwest, USA

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 3 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Sun 05 Aug 2012, 5:29 pm

GPB,
I understand all that, but Finchem is a genius at satisfying his base (players and sponsors) and this is just another clever way of doing it. New Q-School rules also of course.
My point is that, unless you want to risk not satisfying the requirement, you've got to schedule 17 events or risk coming up short. A win early in the season helps big time, but get behind, like Charl for instance with his injuries, and you're all of a sudden behind the 8-ball.


More important in the immediate short term is that Russell Knox has got off to a flyer - he needs 16 more holes like the first too.

kwinigolfer

Posts : 25691
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 3 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by GPB on Sun 05 Aug 2012, 5:30 pm

Toru Taniguchi has been reclaimed by Bridgestone. He is on the LB as a WD and he is once again listed in the field.

Strange that his name vanished (nearly) completely yesterday from BS website.

GPB

Posts : 6494
Join date : 2012-02-10
Location : Midwest, USA

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 3 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by princedracula on Sun 05 Aug 2012, 6:02 pm

About time... not sure who's in charge of that LB when a WGC is on, but it hasn't been handled too well, specially considering the big Japanese sponsor involved...

Goo Roryyy!!

P.S. A quick mention and congrats to Catriona Matthew who won the LET Irish Open today at Killeen Castle !

princedracula

Posts : 3258
Join date : 2011-06-26

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 3 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by GPB on Sun 05 Aug 2012, 7:10 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:
My point is that, unless you want to risk not satisfying the requirement, you've got to schedule 17 events or risk coming up short. A win early in the season helps big time, but get behind, like Charl for instance with his injuries, and you're all of a sudden behind the 8-ball.

Not true, all you go to do is play well. And Westwood, Poulter, Sergio, etc are not doing that. IMO they think they can cruise right into the Tour Championship by mailing it in.

The PGAT is so much deeper than EuroT.

GPB

Posts : 6494
Join date : 2012-02-10
Location : Midwest, USA

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 3 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by GPB on Sun 05 Aug 2012, 7:19 pm

Interesting development on the Webdotcom tour.

Dawie van de Walt (related to Tjaart?) shot a final round 60 and is tied for the lead. He is 6'5" and 250 lbs. He should be doing the Shotput in London!

He is tied Ben Kohles who is looking to win his first two pro events in his first two Pro starts.


GPB

Posts : 6494
Join date : 2012-02-10
Location : Midwest, USA

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 3 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by Shotrock on Sun 05 Aug 2012, 7:23 pm

Tiger too little too late.

Donald doing the opposite ... throwing in his bad round late in a tournament. Not at all impressive thus far for the World #1. And what's with Westwood - just awful stuff these last two days.

Shotrock

Posts : 3454
Join date : 2011-05-10
Location : Philadelphia

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 3 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by mystiroakey on Sun 05 Aug 2012, 7:24 pm

is donald having a bad final round!!!

shocked

mystiroakey

Posts : 32472
Join date : 2011-03-06
Age : 42
Location : surrey

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 3 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Sun 05 Aug 2012, 7:27 pm

You think they're complacent.
I think they're just playing far below their top form.

Either way, unless, like Rory, Rose and Donald, they get wins in the bag early on, they just can't afford to take liberties with their schedule.

Bil Haas, Keegs and Stricker following Furyk's lead in doing themselves a favour towards their RC qualification; Mahan and Mickelson not helping anyone.

No bubble Europeans doing much to help themselves or J-M O with Hanson, Kaymer, Lawrie, Poulter, Sergio etc all (in?)effectively treading water.

kwinigolfer

Posts : 25691
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 3 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by mystiroakey on Sun 05 Aug 2012, 7:29 pm

i noticed that slattery was doing ok.. potentially a good pay day for him and some nice ranking points

mystiroakey

Posts : 32472
Join date : 2011-03-06
Age : 42
Location : surrey

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 3 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by GPB on Sun 05 Aug 2012, 10:23 pm

pretty quiet in here with no Euros really in the mix on Sunday. Great stuff from Furyk, Keegan, Oosty, and Stricker coming home.

GPB

Posts : 6494
Join date : 2012-02-10
Location : Midwest, USA

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 3 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by NedB-H on Sun 05 Aug 2012, 10:23 pm

GPB wrote:Interesting development on the Webdotcom tour.

Dawie van de Walt (related to Tjaart?) shot a final round 60 and is tied for the lead. He is 6'5" and 250 lbs. He should be doing the Shotput in London!

He is tied Ben Kohles who is looking to win his first two pro events in his first two Pro starts.

Glad someone mentioned this, with Kohles going 62 to seal the win. Lots of talk this year about the "new generation" of US players - Simpson, Bradley, Fowler, Watson etc. But a few guys in the generation behind them, who have only just turned pro, have really hit the ground running. John Peterson, Patrick Reed, Luke Guthrie, now Kohles too having incredible starts to their pro careers this summer. Could well be the backbone of some US success for several years to come, and that's without a few of the guys having slightly slower starts, like Cantlay, Uihlein, Henley, and English and Cauley who have already established themselves on tour.


On the subject of "tour handcuffs" though... I have to agree with Kwini. It's a very big risk-reward setup that Finchem/the Tour have created with the FedEx system. These guys who "double dip" clearly need to have careful schedules, and they can do that in Europe, basically plan your year, make sure Dubai will be your final required event, and if you look like missing it you can add in an extra one the week before to make the number. But it's much trickier to schedule Stateside because of the playoffs. If you plan to play safe, and make, say, the Barclays your 15th, that's easy enough... but unless you play a hell of a lot, you're basically gonna be a token ET member a la Donald and Garcia. If you want to play as full a schedule (or more full) in Europe as in the US, as many of these guys may understandably want, then you have to gamble... every tournament that you skip puts more pressure on you to play well in the others. I don't think it's necessarily good for golf that you could have a guy ranked top 30 in the world, who could find himself needing to finish say top 30 in the BMW, or top 50 in the Deutsche Bank, to keep his card, where 31st or 51st will mean that player is ineligible to be a PGA Tour member the next year. To be honest I think the current system is perfect - there's pressure on the top players to play well, but there's also the Fall Series safety net where they can swallow their pride if they've had a poor year and still keep their card. Without tournaments after the playoffs, I think it's too severe and basically unfair to players and fans.

NedB-H

Posts : 2147
Join date : 2011-01-27
Location : Kent / Ceredigion

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 3 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by Shotrock on Sun 05 Aug 2012, 10:38 pm

Top 10 for Tiger and and all Yank shootout at Firestone - Furyk might need to drive this home with one headlight if he wants to be last man standing.

Finchem doing a wonderful job of attracting and retaining top world wide talent. ET will need to pay to play if they want to compete at this level. Just that simple.

Shotrock

Posts : 3454
Join date : 2011-05-10
Location : Philadelphia

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 3 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by GPB on Sun 05 Aug 2012, 10:41 pm

Eliminating the Fall Series Safety Net was an unfortunate consequence of the new QS changes.

I don't think there was any consideration of eliminating the safety net.

And besides that there is no rule that Poulter Westwood etc. has to play no more than 15 events. Playing an extra tournament or two is not going to wear them out.

GPB

Posts : 6494
Join date : 2012-02-10
Location : Midwest, USA

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 3 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by NedB-H on Sun 05 Aug 2012, 10:54 pm

GPB wrote:Eliminating the Fall Series Safety Net was an unfortunate consequence of the new QS changes.

I don't think there was any consideration of eliminating the safety net.

And besides that there is no rule that Poulter Westwood etc. has to play no more than 15 events. Playing an extra tournament or two is not going to wear them out.
It's not playing four (or even two) more days of golf that will wear the guys out, it's the travelling, planning and so on... I get the strong impression that for anyone who wants to make a serious go of both tours, unless your name is Luke or arguably Padraig, then it's a hell of an effort to work out where you're going to be from one week to the next, fulfilling your tournament requirements, keeping yourself primed for the big ones, and meeting any "obligations" you may have picked up along the way, courtesy of sponsors, past wins, and so on (and we all know how much stick players can get for not "supporting" certain events).
No argument that Finchem is doing a great job in getting a nice stranglehold for his tour, which is all his job requires of him; as I say, intentional or not the "loss" of the Fall Series will only increase the Stateside trend for the top guys, unless they drop membership altogether. But whilst Finchem is certainly doing what's best for his tour, that isn't necessarily synonymous with what's best for global golf.
The one thing I would say, and have all along, is that I feel he's missing a trick with the Q-school changes. My main gripe is the door which it slams in the face of established players on other tours, but I also suspect that a few of the college ams will be less than impressed with the closing of their route to instant tour membership. There's already been more young, newly pro Americans trying their hand in Europe this year than I can ever remember, and I imagine a few more may follow the footsteps of Uihlein, Koepka and Pinckney. The best bet for the ET to compete may be to advertise themselves as a quicker route to success than the Nationwide Tour.


Meanwhile, Furyk's summer of Sunday afternoon collapses continues. About time Keegan won again I guess, but not sure if you can really say he "won" that. Might throw a spanner in the RC points though.

NedB-H

Posts : 2147
Join date : 2011-01-27
Location : Kent / Ceredigion

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 3 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by GPB on Sun 05 Aug 2012, 10:57 pm

I have to say that I am liking US chances at Medinah more and more each day. 3 of the players on the fringe of qualifying for the RC stepped up this week and Finished 1-T2-T2.

And BVP finished T8th. I am disappointed that Mickelson and Mahan continue their struggle.

While none of the Fringe Euros did anything noteworthy. None of the bubble players did anything. Molinari, Lawrie, Sergio, Colsearts, RCB, Hanson, Kaymer, Poulter. Best was T29th, by a few players. Anyone of those players could have elevated themselves to the top of Ollie's short list.


GPB

Posts : 6494
Join date : 2012-02-10
Location : Midwest, USA

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 3 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Sun 05 Aug 2012, 11:02 pm

Keegan Bradley in the Ryder Cup then.
Hunter Mahan struggling, and it wouldn't surprise me if DLIII will take the top 12 in qualifying; at the moment, that would embrace Mahan, Furyk and Stricker and, guessing here, Fowler.
Dustin Johnson would be outside, as would Toms, Sneds, Haas and Van Pelt.


NED,
Well said; personally I feel as if it's very deliberate, Finchem wanting the stars but prepared to jettison the borderline guys if they won't play his game. It could backfire on Finchem of course, but one could equally say that too few of the "International" stars are stepping up this year.
As I said: Well said!!


Shotrock's sounding more like Jacob Dylan every post . . . . . . !


Now, decent back nine please Padraig, Christian, make the evening interesting.

kwinigolfer

Posts : 25691
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 3 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Sun 05 Aug 2012, 11:02 pm

Keegan Bradley in the Ryder Cup then.
Hunter Mahan struggling, and it wouldn't surprise me if DLIII will take the top 12 in qualifying; at the moment, that would embrace Mahan, Furyk and Stricker and, guessing here, Fowler.
Dustin Johnson would be outside, as would Toms, Sneds, Haas and Van Pelt.


NED,
Well said; personally I feel as if it's very deliberate, Finchem wanting the stars but prepared to jettison the borderline guys if they won't play his game. It could backfire on Finchem of course, but one could equally say that too few of the "International" stars are stepping up this year.
As I said: Well said!!


Shotrock's sounding more like Jacob Dylan every post . . . . . . !


Now, decent back nine please Padraig, Christian, make the evening interesting.

kwinigolfer

Posts : 25691
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 3 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by GPB on Sun 05 Aug 2012, 11:03 pm

Re New Q-school

Ben Kohles has proven that there is way for college pros to immediately go to PGAT. Kohles turn pro just a few weeks ago and has won two Web-com tournaments and he has a ticket to the PGAT next year. No Q-School required. That can be done next year. Just win baby!

Shutting out the international folks? I agree that there should have been a back door way for a highly ranked player to get into the playoffs. But if the int'l player can get himself into WGC events and majors, he has an excellent opportunity to get himself in the top 200 of the FAUX money list and be eligible for the three event series.

GPB

Posts : 6494
Join date : 2012-02-10
Location : Midwest, USA

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 3 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by NedB-H on Sun 05 Aug 2012, 11:16 pm

Of course the thing to remember about the RC is that Europe have won several times in the past 15 years with far worse teams, in terms of quality and of form... a poor summer of strokeplay tournaments won't be enough for me to write them off yet! Agree that the US do look very strong, but we've said that before too. DLIII's picks could prove more important than JMO's in the end, not least because of the pressure they'll be under given the quality he'll be leaving out. Kwini's suggestions probably aren't that far out, I certainly expect him to take Furyk and Stricker, Mahan is still likely though his poor recent run won't help. The final place is the big one, as a European I'd be pleased to see Haas (fat chance) or Toms get it, and happy with Sneds, BVP and DJ being the two I'd fear. Fowler is a big gamble that could go either way.


Fair point re: Kohles GPB! All depends if the next few years of college guys see it that way too. The golden summer for the US kids that I mentioned earlier will play in to Finchem's hands though, no question. Re shutting out the internationals - my big gripe there isn't so much for the top guys, but the middle-men like Davis, Jacobson etc, who have had very successful careers transferring full-time from one tour to the other. I put together a list a few months back of the internationals who have had success on other tours then come through PGA q-school, I can't remember all of them but it included the likes of Yang, Choi, Allenby, Ames and many others. It's asking a lot for people like that to choose between sticking with Asia/Europe, or devoting a whole year, in the primes of their careers, to playing Web.com (I need to stop calling it NW....).
Sure you can say the tour doesn't need middle-ranking journeymen like them, and the elite will still come through by the route you suggest... but it's those journeymen who make up that huge strength in depth that is the lifeblood of the tour.

NedB-H

Posts : 2147
Join date : 2011-01-27
Location : Kent / Ceredigion

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 3 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Sun 05 Aug 2012, 11:29 pm

Regarding the Q-School arrangement, Stephanie Wie, of SI Golf, says it best:
"As we expected, the Internationals are the most royally screwed."

Spot on.

But it's wrong to blame Finchem, (hold him to account, but don't "blame" him) completely in the hands of the other Tours to have a competitive alternative. So far, there hasn't been one.

kwinigolfer

Posts : 25691
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 3 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by GPB on Sun 05 Aug 2012, 11:50 pm

Still plenty of avenues for a good Int'l player to play the PGAT in 2013.

Unofficial earnings that are inside the top 125 will get you there, NO QS required.

Unofficial earnings that are inside the the top 200 gets you into Q-school.

I think there ought to be limited spots available to Highly ranked players (could be an American playing elsewhere, like Uihlein). Up to six spots, as long as they are ranked high enough (top 100, 150?)

But there are ways for players to get there. They just got to go out and do it.


GPB

Posts : 6494
Join date : 2012-02-10
Location : Midwest, USA

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 3 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by NedB-H on Mon 06 Aug 2012, 12:24 am

Plenty of avenues for 2013 tour membership GPB, fewer for 2014! Still think it's harder than you make it sound though. Bear in mind that it's rare to the point of extinction for an unheralded ET player or an Asian tour player outside the OWGR top 50 to get an invite to a regular PGA event. So they basically need to get those earnings from the majors or WGCs, and for non PGA members qualifying for any of those isn't exactly easy. And then they need to make those earnings targets once they get there... to put that into perspective, last year No. 125 was Trahan, $668,166, and No. 200 was Letzig, $169,973. That's the equivalent of about a 9th place finish in a major, slightly more in a WGC. It's asking a huge amount for midtable tour players from other tours to achieve those, I would think one or two guys a season, max. As for matching the 125 ranking, anyone who does that is almost certain to be inside the world top 50 anyway, so is a class above the players we're talking about. I don't think it's right that for guys who are finishing say top 50 in the R2D, or top 15 in the Asian or Japanese OoMs, there's no feasible route for them to play the PGA Tour without spending a year on Web.com, to be honest I think it's a bit of an insult to those tours and those players. The best solution I can think of would be offer a place in those 3 qualifier events for anyone finishing perhaps top 80 in Europe or top 40 in one of the other foreign tours - you could restrict the numbers allowed in from each if needed, but I doubt they'd be that high. But the option should be there.

NedB-H

Posts : 2147
Join date : 2011-01-27
Location : Kent / Ceredigion

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 3 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Mon 06 Aug 2012, 12:27 am

It's official!

Updated US Ryder Cup qualie points:
Woods, Dufner, Watson, Bradley, Simpson ($4.6M), ZJohnson ($4.5M), Kuchar ($4.4M)

8th: Mickelson: $4.2M
9th: Mahan: $4.1M
10th: Stricker: $3.6M
11th: Furyk: $3.3M
12th: Fowler: $3.3M

13th: Snedeker: $3.2M
14th: Dustin Johnson: $3.0M
15th: Van Pelt: $2.95M
16th: Haas: $2.46M

Remember: Double money earned next week at the PGA.

kwinigolfer

Posts : 25691
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 3 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by GPB on Mon 06 Aug 2012, 12:49 am

Re RC Standings

Anyone through 34th in the standings have a "chance" to qualify automatically with the double points

Assuming Mickelson and Mahan do nothing.

Stricker needs to finish solo 6th or better.
Furyk, Fowler need to finish in a two way tie third or better
Sneds need to finish solo 3rd or better.
DJ, BVP need to finish solo 2nd or better.

Anyone else needs to win (Haas to Potter).


GPB

Posts : 6494
Join date : 2012-02-10
Location : Midwest, USA

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 3 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by GPB on Mon 06 Aug 2012, 12:52 am

NedB, Should not be that hard for an Int'l player to secure an invite for a Web-com event, especially early in the year. or Monday Qualify.

If they are any good, they should be able to get into top 75 in a few events. The Web-com is not that deep.

GPB

Posts : 6494
Join date : 2012-02-10
Location : Midwest, USA

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 3 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by robopz on Mon 06 Aug 2012, 2:33 am

I think you guys are missing a key point... What Finchim taketh away from the International players on one hand... he giveth back in spades with the other.

With the schedule changes and addition of full official status to the WGC-HSBC and CIMB starting in the 2013-14 season... there are additional opportunities for Europeans and Asians to make the PGA Tour via the Special Temporary Member (STM) route. STM has historically been the key route for better internationals to get on. Also the dual Tour Euro's will benefit by having an EIGHT common event in which to make their tour minimums... and the Asian Tour players will have another event (CIMB) in which to earn STM.

According to comments by Paul Goydos (a policy board member) the PGAT anticipates the net effect of International players finding themselves eligible for the PGAT via STM will be neutral to a slight INCREASE over the current levels we see now qualifying via Q-school. The difference that it is anticipated the quality of international players coming to the PGAT should improve. The study suggesting that players that are likely to gain STM would be getting it through top "world" events (in which you have to be a quality player to qualify) whereas the likelihood of a "lesser" player making it through Q-school was greater.

The only question on Official status of events has to do with the South African Tournament of Hope and it's status on the PGAT and as a fully sanctioned and official WGC... The PGAT has no intention of allowing it to count against the PGAT 15 minimum, nor towards PGAT Special temporary memebership.

robopz

Posts : 3233
Join date : 2012-04-23
Location : Texas

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 3 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by Shotrock on Mon 06 Aug 2012, 2:47 am

Ned - Disagree that it's an insult to those tour players. Why the US Tour should be concerned with "giving" places to players from other tours is beyond me. Team Finchem sets the rules, but certainly doesn't require anyone who does not want to compete in the US to do so.

Disagree with the Finchem's decisions, compete anywhere but the US in protest, but I would not support anyone asking for hand outs.

Finchem has no desire in a "world tour", and is only eager to strengthen the US tour and sponsor positions. Will this all backfire on him?

My guess is not for a while - or at least not until other tours decide to invest enough to attract the better players.

Shotrock

Posts : 3454
Join date : 2011-05-10
Location : Philadelphia

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 3 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by sirbenson on Mon 06 Aug 2012, 2:55 am

Great win Keegan, poor Jim look gutted.

sirbenson

Posts : 2801
Join date : 2011-06-04
Location : Dublin

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 3 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by robopz on Mon 06 Aug 2012, 3:13 am

NedB-H wrote:The one thing I would say, and have all along, is that I feel he's missing a trick with the Q-school changes. My main gripe is the door which it slams in the face of established players on other tours, but I also suspect that a few of the college ams will be less than impressed with the closing of their route to instant tour membership. There's already been more young, newly pro Americans trying their hand in Europe this year than I can ever remember, and I imagine a few more may follow the footsteps of Uihlein, Koepka and Pinckney. The best bet for the ET to compete may be to advertise themselves as a quicker route to success than the Nationwide Tour.

I think you're missing in practicality what will happen with those American college guys going to Europe to cut their teeth. First guys like Uihlein illustrate the problem. He didn't earn any more status on the the Euro Tour than he did on the PGAT as he didn't make it through Euro Q-school either. IMO it was a mistake for Peter to try to do it the way he did... As Peter found out... even if you can get the exemptions into either Euro or Challenge Tour events... that doesn't guarantee success.

First... those guys are good too. And an American going over to play in foreign cultures on different style courses, different putting surfaces and different cuisine than he's accustomed to is a big ask. IMO Peter could have gotten into just as many events, maybe even more had he stayed in the states... and probably had better success. And don't think for a minute that other college guys here aren't noting his struggles.

Second... Lets take Pinckney. Unlike the guys who are dual touring the Euro/PGA Tours... Pinckney is just a "rental" at best for the Euro tour. The only question is how long will he be over there. By that I mean he's still gonna to Q-school the PGAT this year and if he gets status on the PGAT... then goodbye Euro Tour. But even if he doesn't get through here... And if he does succeed on the Euro Tour... then he's gonna try to get Special Temporary Membership on the PGAT and and he'll be gone home as soon as he gets it. . My guess... Pinckney will not retain his Euro card... and will try both q-schools again... and will take the best status he can get. And again... Pinckney was pretty highly regarded here... so other collegians seeing his struggles on the Euro tour are probably noting that the Euro Tour may not be a better avenue than just "taking their medicine" and playing a year on the web.com tour


robopz

Posts : 3233
Join date : 2012-04-23
Location : Texas

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 3 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by NedB-H on Mon 06 Aug 2012, 12:41 pm

Robo,

Sorry to say I think Goydos is talking out of his backside on that one. For the Europeans that's only one event over and above what they (in theory) have now, and for the Asians it's two, but two for which very few will qualify anyway. It's true that anyone who does come through for STM will be a high quality player, probably top 50 in the world at least, but that's not exactly rocket science because it's not going to be very different at all to the current scenario for STM. And the tour is cutting of its nose to spite its face if it thinks those are the only overseas players it needs. I've shown this list on here before, of players who had successful careers on other circuits then used Q-school to get instant PGA membership (since 1999):

Choi, Yang, Ogilvy, Senden, Noh, Bae, Lonard, Pettersson, Davis, Wi, Hamilton, Owen, Cejka, RS Johnson, Gronberg, Chopra, Atwal, SH Kang, Steve Allan, Kaname Yokoo, P-U Johansson, Hidemichi Tanaka, Daisuke Maruyama.

Sure you could argue that some of those might have accepted a year on the NW, and maybe some wouldn't have been missed, but it's still a large pool of talent to write off completely, and it doesn't include decent players who didn't keep their cards like Hansen or Phil Price. It's not a big enough list for there to be any worries about suppressing US talent, but it's also too big a list (in my opinion) to completely shut off the route for successors to follow to the Tour. And the comment from SR about people not wanting to play in the US is bizarre, clearly anyone who bothers entering the current Q-school format does want to compete in the US. But you can hardly blame foreign players for starting off their careers on their home circuits.

NedB-H

Posts : 2147
Join date : 2011-01-27
Location : Kent / Ceredigion

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 3 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by NedB-H on Mon 06 Aug 2012, 12:49 pm

robopz wrote:
NedB-H wrote:The one thing I would say, and have all along, is that I feel he's missing a trick with the Q-school changes. My main gripe is the door which it slams in the face of established players on other tours, but I also suspect that a few of the college ams will be less than impressed with the closing of their route to instant tour membership. There's already been more young, newly pro Americans trying their hand in Europe this year than I can ever remember, and I imagine a few more may follow the footsteps of Uihlein, Koepka and Pinckney. The best bet for the ET to compete may be to advertise themselves as a quicker route to success than the Nationwide Tour.

I think you're missing in practicality what will happen with those American college guys going to Europe to cut their teeth. First guys like Uihlein illustrate the problem. He didn't earn any more status on the the Euro Tour than he did on the PGAT as he didn't make it through Euro Q-school either. IMO it was a mistake for Peter to try to do it the way he did... As Peter found out... even if you can get the exemptions into either Euro or Challenge Tour events... that doesn't guarantee success.

First... those guys are good too. And an American going over to play in foreign cultures on different style courses, different putting surfaces and different cuisine than he's accustomed to is a big ask. IMO Peter could have gotten into just as many events, maybe even more had he stayed in the states... and probably had better success. And don't think for a minute that other college guys here aren't noting his struggles.

Second... Lets take Pinckney. Unlike the guys who are dual touring the Euro/PGA Tours... Pinckney is just a "rental" at best for the Euro tour. The only question is how long will he be over there. By that I mean he's still gonna to Q-school the PGAT this year and if he gets status on the PGAT... then goodbye Euro Tour. But even if he doesn't get through here... And if he does succeed on the Euro Tour... then he's gonna try to get Special Temporary Membership on the PGAT and and he'll be gone home as soon as he gets it. . My guess... Pinckney will not retain his Euro card... and will try both q-schools again... and will take the best status he can get. And again... Pinckney was pretty highly regarded here... so other collegians seeing his struggles on the Euro tour are probably noting that the Euro Tour may not be a better avenue than just "taking their medicine" and playing a year on the web.com tour

Interesting comments... and I don't disagree that Pinckney or the others wouldn't still jump at PGA membership. But I'm not sure any of them feel their trips have been quite the failure you make out. Uihlein has had enough good finishes now to at least guarantee CT membership next year, and has a decent shot still at earning his ET card (currently 32nd in the rankings). And a recurring feature is the players commenting on how "valuable the experience" is of playing somewhere new. That might just be the media training talking, and they're really wishing they'd stayed at home, but we can't know either way. The test will be seeing how many follow their footsteps in the next few years.

And I say again, STM isn't the walk in the park it seems to be getting viewed as. There really isn't going to be much more chance to get it than there is currently, and it was pretty unusual for even two guys (Hanson and Ishikawa) to get it this year. Europe-based Americans might have a better chance because they'll have sponsor attraction for regular tour events, but it's still a tough ask. Not helped of course by the fact that it's easiest to get into the majors and WGCs in the first place if you're, er, a PGA Tour member...

NedB-H

Posts : 2147
Join date : 2011-01-27
Location : Kent / Ceredigion

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 3 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by Shotrock on Mon 06 Aug 2012, 1:54 pm

Ned - I think you misinterpreted my comment (or I didn't articulate it well, which is very possible). If any foreign player wants to play on the US tour, they (with rare exception) do better if they concentrate specifically on US soil. You seem to be looking for a springboard for players who want entry from tours other than Web.com - which is clearly what the PGA wants as the pathway.

Once again, if enough good players get frustrated and eschew playing here, there will be an opportunity. Part of the opportunity will be to wait for handouts and special exemptions for these top players (which Finchem, of course, wants and will likely do), but the bigger opportunity will be to strengthen another tour. That, however, will take risk.

Shotrock

Posts : 3454
Join date : 2011-05-10
Location : Philadelphia

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 3 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Mon 06 Aug 2012, 2:02 pm

I think this is a classic agree to disagree discussion and really boils down to what the PGA Tour really wants itself to be.

It can easily be said that double-dippers want to have their proverbial cake and eat it too (hate that phrase, but suppose it fits here), but so does the PGA Tour as can be seen from its constant will-he-won't-he coverage of McIlroy and Westwood regarding playing Tour events, taking membership.

Also remember that Goydos is about the most strident advocate of tee-times for the journeyman that hasn't been warned off by the Tour, hardly an unbiased source.

Personally I feel one of the biggest pluses of the European Tour is its diversity but America really only wants stars, not the Freddie Jac's, Brian Davises, John Sendens, even Peter Hansons of this world, let alone lesser lights. (Important to have the journeymen Koreans and Japanese though for TV revenue.)

So, easy to agree to disagree but the bottom line is that the PGA Tour holds almost all of the cards and other Tours have been utterly ineffectual in combatting the "Tour's" strength, been very poor (including you O'Grady) in maximising the quality of the uniqueness of what they have to offer.


Interesting to listen to John Daly talking about how much he enjoys playing in Europe but that, despite that, he really wants to be home. Ben Curtis's sentiments also. Natural reaction I'd've thought but hopefully their positive experiences and those of Uihlein and Pinkney will be conveyed to other top class PGA Tour players who have hit the (temporary?) skids. As it is, Messrs Cabrera, Karlsson, even Villegas etc might be playing more in Europe in 2013. Let's hope so - they'll be welcome there!

kwinigolfer

Posts : 25691
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 3 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by NedB-H on Mon 06 Aug 2012, 2:59 pm

Shotrock wrote:Ned - I think you misinterpreted my comment (or I didn't articulate it well, which is very possible). If any foreign player wants to play on the US tour, they (with rare exception) do better if they concentrate specifically on US soil.
But that's exactly the opposite of what's going to happen SR. You're right, the more successful foreign players are almost always the ones who concentrate solely on the one tour. But those also tend to be the ones who use the Q-school route (Davis, Pettersson, Owen), probably because they're pro-actively wanting to get on the Tour. There's a strong correlation between the guys who "double dip" on both tours, and those who earnt their PGA membership through earnings and Special membership. Not surprising, as they tend to be the top 50 players who are getting into the big events. If the Tour wants foreign players who are committed to playing singularly on their own tour, then they're doing their very best to close the door on those players. The only way in other than Web.com is going to be ST membership, and the only guys good enough to get that will be the double dippers they don't want.

An entry route for people from tours other than Web.com is EXACTLY what I want. It's what there is now, and it works very well: the majority of each year's new intake remains US players and I don't mind that, but Q-school allows good foreign players just below the top rank to get some experience in Europe or Asia then progress, should they choose, straight on to the tour. The new system would require those guys, unless they had a run of very unlikely and optimistic successes, to take at least one year out on the Web.com. And that's not fair to us overseas fans, who would see our own premier tours diluted in quality to improve the strength of a secondary tour in the US; nor is it fair on the players in question, who have to take a step back in their careers if they want to play PGA, just because they had their temerity to begin their pro careers in their own countries and on their own circuits, rather than in the US.
As a fan of global golf, living in the UK, I happily accept that the US is the main base of golf, that most of the bigger tournaments will be there and that a majority of players will be American. But in light of that, I object to changes to the setup which create a bias swinging things even further in the favour of American players and American tours, when neither the players nor the PGA Tour are struggling nearly enough to need that extra protection. Which is what this is.

NedB-H

Posts : 2147
Join date : 2011-01-27
Location : Kent / Ceredigion

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 3 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Tiring of Firestone and Mile High Club in Reno: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 3 of 4 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum