WI v NZ 2nd Test: Live Match Thread

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Post by msp83 on Thu 02 Aug 2012, 4:04 pm

The 2nd test between West Indies and New Zealand is just getting underway at Sabina Park Jamaica.
Injuries mean both teams have to make changes. The injured Ravi Rampaul is replaced in the WI side by fast bowler Tino Best, and injuries to Daniel Vetori and Daniel Flynn means BJ Wadling and Tim Southee comes in to the NZ side. There is also the decision to drop senior bowler Chris Martin, who is replaced by young Trend Boult.
The track is expected to have some life in it for the bowlers, while hardworking batters would be able to make some runs as well.

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Post by msp83 on Thu 02 Aug 2012, 4:05 pm

Darren Sammy has won the toss, and he's put NZ into bat.

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Post by msp83 on Thu 02 Aug 2012, 4:07 pm

BJ Watling and Martin Guptill are opening the innings for NZ.
Watling had showed good form in the ODI series before getting injured, and Guptill was NZ's standout batsman in the first test.
Kemar Roach with the first over for the West Indies.

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Post by msp83 on Thu 02 Aug 2012, 4:34 pm

New Zealand in trouble here, 11 for 2, Roach got Watling taken at slip by Gayle and in the very next over Best bowled a lively fast one outside McCulllum's off stump and he edged to Ramdin behind the stumps. Ross Taylor almost followed next ball, the edge of Best falling just short of the gully fielder.

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Post by msp83 on Thu 02 Aug 2012, 4:49 pm

The ball from Roach that got Watling was very nearly a no ball, a very close call, where the benefit of doubt went to the bowler luckily. Roach has already bowled another no ball that is called by the umpire. He really has a problem with it.

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Post by msp83 on Thu 02 Aug 2012, 6:13 pm

New Zealand recovering well to 72 for 2 at lunch with Ross Taylor hitting his way out of pressure and Martin Guptill defending his at the other end.
Roach despite his no ball problems bowwled alright at the start and Tino Best has been really hostile with his pace. Sunil Narine bowled tight but can't be expected to run through sides on a bouncy first day track. Darren Sammy continues to weaken the bowling as the 3rd seamer, although he picks up wickets here and there, he just doesn't have the pace, bounce or movement that could make him a consistent wicket taking threat. Good enough as a 4th or 5th bowling option, but certainly not a 3rd seamer in a 4 man unit. But alas, West Indies will have to live with it for some more time.
Sammy is a strong lad, wonder why can't he work on adding a yard of pace to his bowling. If he could retain his accuracy with that, he could be more effective with the ball.

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Post by msp83 on Thu 02 Aug 2012, 7:45 pm

Another sharp quick one from Tino at 148 KMPH, and Ross Taylor's fighting knock is over as he edges behind to Ramdin!. The New Zealand captain goes for 61 and NZ are 114-3.

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Post by msp83 on Thu 02 Aug 2012, 9:22 pm

New Zealand 161-4, Kane Williamson, after getting set gets out for 22 playing at a tossed up, slow wide ball from Narsingh Deonarine to be taken by Sammy. Guptill is fighting on, scoring his 3rd back to back half-century of the series. New Zealand would really want him to carry on and convert it into a big ton.

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Post by msp83 on Thu 02 Aug 2012, 9:29 pm

Dean Brownlie comes and goes, Roach the man for West Indies He gets Brownlie to edge to Ramdin behind the stumps, and yes, Roach didn't cross the line this time round, although he did it next ball rather dutifully!!.
2 real promissing bowlers Kemar Roach and Steven Finn, have some longstanding technical issues in their bowling, Roach with the no ball problem and Finn with his kicking the stumps down consistently. Wonder what the coaching staff have been doing all these time.!

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Post by msp83 on Thu 02 Aug 2012, 9:32 pm

A situation where each time Roach gets a wicket the umpires checking for the no ball, really reflects poorly on the support system in WI cricket. In the over he got Brownlie, Roach managed to bowl 2 massive no balls.

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Post by msp83 on Thu 02 Aug 2012, 9:37 pm

Disaster for NZ, Martin Guptill runout going for a rather unwanted quick single. And its that man Tino again with a fine throw!!.

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Post by Pal Joey on Sat 04 Aug 2012, 7:39 am

msp,

I've made this a sticky and also a slight alteration to the topic heading... I hope that's OK with you. Smile

I saw some highlights this morning - this is turning out to be a very interesting match. Marlon Samuels' ton was very entertaining there near the end - bringing NZ's 1st innings lead down to a mere 51 runs.

NZ will need to increase their current lead of 110 (2 wickets down) to well over 300 runs you'd think... although with Gayle, Samuels, Chanderpaul & Sammy in the WI team and only one of them firing in their 1st innings... maybe a 350-400 run lead (if they don't capitulate again) will be needed with 3 days still to play.
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Post by msp83 on Sat 04 Aug 2012, 1:21 pm

Interestingly, Narsingh Deonarine is evolving as a more than useful bowler for the West Indies. He has in fact in some ways outbowled Sunil Narine.
Darren Sammy really remains the real weaklink in the WI pace bowling department again, He doesn't move it much, and he bowls at a fairly pedestrian pace to trouble international batters.
Think he really will have to work on his bowling, try add a yard or 2 of pace. His batting has improved a bit in recent times though, but not the level where he could slot himself in in the top 7.

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Post by msp83 on Sat 04 Aug 2012, 1:24 pm

Absolutely brilliant knock from Marlon Samuels, had his share of tough times in the early part of the innings, but on a track where even Chris Gayloe struggled to get going, he scored one of his finest hundreds for the West Indies.

West Indies will have to get early wickets on day 3 to come back into this game. If NZ could manage anything more than 220-230, with the first innings lead of 51 they should be in a good position to even the series.

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Post by msp83 on Sat 04 Aug 2012, 7:13 pm

New Zeland struggling at 126-7. They have thrown away most of the advantage of that first innings lead. If they get the lead pass 160-170, the bowlers will have a fighting chance. The highest successful total chased down at Kingston is 211, West Indies against Sri Lanka.

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Post by msp83 on Sat 04 Aug 2012, 7:38 pm

New Zeland allout 154. An overall lead of 205. West Indies would need 206 to win the match and series. NZ has to get 10 wickets to even the series. Very nicely set up.
Deonarine picked up 4 wickets, Narine 3, Best 2 and Roach 1.

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Post by msp83 on Sat 04 Aug 2012, 8:54 pm

West Indies 56-2 at tea on the third day. Marlon Samuels is out there on 20 and Asad Fudadin is with him on 16. Openers Chris Gayle and Kieran Powell are back in the hut, Trend Boult getting Gayle and Southee getting Powell.
Samuels has a huge responsibility and the WI have Shiv Chanderpaul to come in, but with those 2 early strikes, NZ are still in the game.

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Post by msp83 on Sat 04 Aug 2012, 10:22 pm

West Indies 94-3. Samuels is going along fine on 47, but Niel Wagner has just bowled Asad Fudadin for 27 thereby opening the door a bit. Chanderpaul is the new man, but he has not got going in the series as yet. Perhaps this is going to be his moment.

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Post by KP_fan on Sun 05 Aug 2012, 9:50 am

WI should win from where they stand now....they might stutter a bit more but will cross the finish line IMO.

The return of IPL stars has turned WI into a mid-table side....
The adminsitrators running the cricket boards sc.rew their national interest when they deem themselves masters and rulers....bigger than the team.
The moment they turn into facilitators of the game......their teams floursih
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Post by KP_fan on Sun 05 Aug 2012, 7:43 pm

Well done WI......they have a lot of talent in pace bowling and a bunch of spinners.....
Just need to get their balance right..........which unfortunately means the good natured and big hearted Sammy's gotta go.
He is not holding on his place on merit.

Sammy should be replaced by Bravo......and a batsman is dropped to include a 2nd spiiner or 4th seamer.

OR Sammy goes and Andre Russle the genuinely quick fast bowling allrounder comes in.....

captaincy........well they can give that to anyone on field and appoint a Flower like non-playing captain, who can call shots from dressing room
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Post by ShankyCricket on Sun 05 Aug 2012, 8:46 pm

Sammy's averages with the ball in his last 3 series : 40.80, 48.50, 151.00

He is a joke of a bowler.

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Post by Shelsey93 on Sun 05 Aug 2012, 10:59 pm

KP_fan wrote:WI should win from where they stand now....they might stutter a bit more but will cross the finish line IMO.

The return of IPL stars has turned WI into a mid-table side....
The adminsitrators running the cricket boards sc.rew their national interest when they deem themselves masters and rulers....bigger than the team.
The moment they turn into facilitators of the game......their teams floursih

Nothing to do with the so-called IPL stars. In fact only Gayle (who was left out by WI, rather than choosing the IPL over West Indies) , Narine (who wouldn't have got in the Test team pre-IPL) and Samuels (who had a very iffy record before the tour of England) of the current side played in the IPL.

Not much really needs to change. Darren Bravo will obviously return, and after his ton, Powell will get a run. That leaves the number six slot up for grabs which a number of players can contest. Ideally they need a Test-class number six batting and seam-bowling all-rounder, but they are hard to find and Dwayne Bravo is nowhere near good enough (he's not a Test number 6 or a better Test bowler than Sammy).

Overall, its been a satisfactory season for West Indies. They fought more closely than of late against Australia and in England, and stopped the Aussies winning the one-day series. They then trounced New Zealand, which isn't that hard but should be a source of confidence. Sadly WI have a very light schedule in the coming months so might have to rebuild momentum from square one when they start again.

Sammy isn't the best player in the world, but is a fair Test number seven and not a bad fourth seamer - I don't think they can really afford to play three out and out quicks against the better teams anyway, and pitches in WI can suit his bowling style. As captain he has revived team spirit within WI which is critical to any future success the team may have. Thus, its essential that they stick with him. Of course, as I say, a top batsman who can either keep well or bowl would be ideal, but they don't have that at the moment so need to stick with the team they have.

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Post by ShankyCricket on Mon 06 Aug 2012, 8:25 am

Surely Rampaul has to come in for Sammy, when fit?

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Post by ShankyCricket on Mon 06 Aug 2012, 8:26 am

Shelsey93 wrote:
KP_fan wrote:WI should win from where they stand now....they might stutter a bit more but will cross the finish line IMO.

The return of IPL stars has turned WI into a mid-table side....
The adminsitrators running the cricket boards sc.rew their national interest when they deem themselves masters and rulers....bigger than the team.
The moment they turn into facilitators of the game......their teams floursih

Nothing to do with the so-called IPL stars. In fact only Gayle (who was left out by WI, rather than choosing the IPL over West Indies) , Narine (who wouldn't have got in the Test team pre-IPL) and Samuels (who had a very iffy record before the tour of England) of the current side played in the IPL.

Not much really needs to change. Darren Bravo will obviously return, and after his ton, Powell will get a run. That leaves the number six slot up for grabs which a number of players can contest. Ideally they need a Test-class number six batting and seam-bowling all-rounder, but they are hard to find and Dwayne Bravo is nowhere near good enough (he's not a Test number 6 or a better Test bowler than Sammy).

Overall, its been a satisfactory season for West Indies. They fought more closely than of late against Australia and in England, and stopped the Aussies winning the one-day series. They then trounced New Zealand, which isn't that hard but should be a source of confidence. Sadly WI have a very light schedule in the coming months so might have to rebuild momentum from square one when they start again.

Sammy isn't the best player in the world, but is a fair Test number seven and not a bad fourth seamer - I don't think they can really afford to play three out and out quicks against the better teams anyway, and pitches in WI can suit his bowling style. As captain he has revived team spirit within WI which is critical to any future success the team may have. Thus, its essential that they stick with him. Of course, as I say, a top batsman who can either keep well or bowl would be ideal, but they don't have that at the moment so need to stick with the team they have.
No, he isnt. Sammy at 7 would mean Ramdin at 6 and there is no way Ramdin is good enough to bat above 7.

Basically, the same team with Darren Bravo and Rampaul coming in for Fudadin and Sammy. Samuels as captain!

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Post by Shelsey93 on Mon 06 Aug 2012, 8:59 am

shankythebiggestengfan wrote:No, he isnt. Sammy at 7 would mean Ramdin at 6 and there is no way Ramdin is good enough to bat above 7.

Basically, the same team with Darren Bravo and Rampaul coming in for Fudadin and Sammy. Samuels as captain!

That's the point I'm making. He would be a fair number 7 if they could find a proper all-rounder who bats at 6 (a 'keeper or pace bowler), but I don't think that Bravo is that.

I'm afraid they can't afford to weaken the batting too much - it remains pretty flaky. Dwayne Bravo is very average in my view. He is a worse bowler than Sammy in Tests, and only a marginally better batsman.

As a bowling attack then Roach, Rampaul, Sammy and Narine works pretty well. In West Indies spin is often dominant anyway so Samuels and Deonarine also play an important role, giving them plenty of bowling options. Best has been in good form, but against the good teams I expect him to revert to his normal mode of going at 6 an over.

Samuels would be an awful captain by the way.

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Post by ShankyCricket on Mon 06 Aug 2012, 10:18 am

Sammy is just as awful.

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Post by msp83 on Tue 07 Aug 2012, 8:45 pm

Sammy's batting has shown signs of improvements to the levels that he can now be a decent number 8. He's no way good enough to bat 7 though. His bowling has been average atbest of times, and in recent months it has become pretty ordinary. Doesn't deserve a place in the side on his cricketing abilities.
I have seen West Indies playing with fire and spirit under Gayle's captaincy in Australia and winning a series against England. It's been a very convenient myth invented to provide Sammy the political captain with some cricketing legitimacy that he has been the creater of some massive team spirit in the WI side, the kind built by Lloyd or Richards, the reality is far from that.
It is not even the case that there are no better players. As a bowler alone, Ravi Rampaul is way better than Sammy. Even someone like Shannon Gabriel are better potentials in that regard. As an all-rounder, Andre Russell is more capable with both bat and ball. Dwayne Bravo is a better bat, and a similar bowler. Narsingh Deonarine, if he keeps up the levels of performance with the ball in recent times, can be a better all-rounder than Sammy is. I feel youngsters such as Jason Holder have the potential to emerge as quality bowlers who could make decent contribution with the bat as well.
But Sammy leading the West Indies side for some more time is a political reality we have to live with, and all that West Indies can hope is that his slowly increasing levels of performances with the bat would go on that way to the extend that one day he would become capable enough to bat in the top 7, and that his bowling would reach its peak where he could be a decent 4th seamer.

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