Cut the nose to spite the face

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Post by KP_fan on Sun 12 Aug 2012, 5:13 pm

First topic message reminder :

Did they just cut the nose to spite the face ?

Yes indeed ECB cut their nose to spite their face.

With 7000 runs, 88 tests @ 50+ average, a big 100 in his last overseas innings in Lanka to keep England hanging in as No. 1 and another big hundred in what was defnitely his LAST test to yet again keep them hanging by a flimsy thread as No.1....KP's status as their biggest superstar in the last 3 decades and a legend in English cricket is already confirmed.


The intent obviously was to "hit back and hurt back".......instead of finding ways to reconcile and move forward.
Unfortunately ECB's timing was as bad as their intent.
.
If it was repraminding and putting down a newbie with 20 odd tests and 1500 runs.....then ECB's intent to "hit back and hurt" may have worked.......but here they have probably added martyrdom to an exisiting superstardom.

KP could have finished with 9000 or even 10,000 runs in the next 3 years....even without those extra 2,000 runs runs..nothing changes in his standing as a cricketer...the loser is English cricket.

An extraordinary batsman, who served England well for long, a flawed genius who acknowledged his flawed emotionalism and one who took severeal steps towards reconcillation....the super star who was made a martyr today by the bureaucrats who did a classic " cut their nose to spite their own face"......is how history would sum it up when dust settles over this issue.
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Post by GSC on Thu 30 Aug 2012, 11:57 am

Everyones happy to take KP back once he apologises, tells the ECB what was in the texts and promises to amend his behaviour.

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Post by seanmichaels on Thu 30 Aug 2012, 12:05 pm

Disagree. I think the ECB should not take him back under any circumstance. In fact i'd go further and ban him from the English game. Let him play cricket in an Indian sh*thole for the rest of his career. His missus will love that.
I will not watch / support England while he is playing.

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Post by GSC on Thu 30 Aug 2012, 12:07 pm

I have no problem if he comes back on his best behaviour. As much as he is a **** he remains one of Englands few very good batsmen.
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Post by Fists of Fury on Thu 30 Aug 2012, 12:48 pm

Think you're getting a little carried away, Sean..

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Post by sirfredperry on Thu 30 Aug 2012, 1:17 pm

Unless there has been a complete breakdown of trust/friendship/team spirit/get-on-ability between KP and the rest of the England team, efforts IMHO should be made to try to get him back in the side.
Of course, these efforts could fail or he could become a liability personality-wise later.
For now, someone needs to sit down with him and say do you want to be known in future as:
a) a selfish, money-grabbing egotistical sh*t
b) one of England's greatest-ever batsman.

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Post by KP_fan on Thu 30 Aug 2012, 2:05 pm

from the bitterness that a number of poster carry here in this forum against KP........and the likes of Pringle in the media...it is clear that he is either a horrible man.....OR he has been successfully painted as horrible.

what is the data based on whihc this horrible picture has formed in the minds of many ??

1) Multitude suggestions, anecdotes, refernces that he breaks down the dressing room unit.
2) that he said nasty things about Taylor
3) That he slandered AS in the text messages

and where is this data coming from ?
Leaks Shocked
Reliable sources...who cannot be named.

some team mates/Flower/ ECB...whoever is leaking these...and it has to be one of these....has successfully managed to pain the ultra-negative pitcture.
Why did they do it ?
--to have an edge over him in negotiations by modifying public opinion
--grudge/ jealousy / ego
--crush him at any cost


How did this affect English cricket in their toughest series?
Badly Crying or Very sad
Whose responsibility is this ?
ECB..obviously. They are the custodians of English cricket and after Heradingley breakdown of KP...they should have handled behind closed doors instead of creating ECB_leaks.

Obviosuly those objectives in Blue were more important to them than the immediate result of the series

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Post by seanmichaels on Thu 30 Aug 2012, 2:23 pm

ECB are quite rightly taking a stance to keep Test Cricket at the forefront of international cricket. They stand virtually alone in this. They cannot have one rule for one, and one for another. If they met his demands England could have ended up with the Lions squad playing NZ next summer. That is why they took Pietersen to task. Once he realised he couldn't take the pi55 he came back grovelling.


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Post by GSC on Thu 30 Aug 2012, 2:26 pm

I'm not sure they're so alone. ODI's are losing interest by the match, and people are beginning to get bored of the oversaturation of T20 cricket.
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Post by KP_fan on Thu 30 Aug 2012, 2:43 pm

seanmichaels wrote:ECB are quite rightly taking a stance to keep Test Cricket at the forefront of international cricket. They stand virtually alone in this. They cannot have one rule for one, and one for another. If they met his demands England could have ended up with the Lions squad playing NZ next summer. That is why they took Pietersen to task. Once he realised he couldn't take the pi55 he came back grovelling.

that part underlined is how you wish it would be.

he did comply to the notional , ego satisfying "demands" of ECB...such as apologise, promise to be nice, say I love my country, write 1000 times ona piece of paper....test cricket is the most important form...... rub your nose in public etc.....

I don't think he has dropped all his conditions......I don't think he wants to come back unconditionally.....
some of his demands might be.....

1)close the paraody Tweet account
2)remove non-contributing members from the dressing room
3)give him more rest and playing days at par with other regulars
4)facilitate his playing in league that pay him money so that his income is not hurt.....OR compensate by paying him a higher wage rate since he is such a premium player

we might see him back ...with more money, more holidays ...since some of his conditions on that list already been fullfilled
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Post by JDizzle on Thu 30 Aug 2012, 2:46 pm

Just because the ECB are in the wrong, and they are, does not make Kevin the victim here. That seems to be what is being suggested and it is rubbish.

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Post by seanmichaels on Thu 30 Aug 2012, 2:46 pm

GSC wrote:I'm not sure they're so alone. ODI's are losing interest by the match, and people are beginning to get bored of the oversaturation of T20 cricket.

Talking about Governing bodies not people. England are the only test nation who fill their grounds and take large numbers of travelling fans.

Anyway, your comment is perhaps misplaced given we've just lost 3 test matches for 5 one dayers.

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Post by GSC on Thu 30 Aug 2012, 2:47 pm

The test series was cut down due to the Olympics and other events iirc.
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Post by seanmichaels on Thu 30 Aug 2012, 2:48 pm

KP_fan wrote:
seanmichaels wrote:ECB are quite rightly taking a stance to keep Test Cricket at the forefront of international cricket. They stand virtually alone in this. They cannot have one rule for one, and one for another. If they met his demands England could have ended up with the Lions squad playing NZ next summer. That is why they took Pietersen to task. Once he realised he couldn't take the pi55 he came back grovelling.

that part underlined is how you wish it would be.

he did comply to the notional , ego satisfying "demands" of ECB...such as apologise, promise to be nice, say I love my country, write 1000 times ona piece of paper....test cricket is the most important form...... rub your nose in public etc.....

I don't think he has dropped all his conditions......I don't think he wants to come back unconditionally.....
some of his demands might be.....

1)close the paraody Tweet account
2)remove non-contributing members from the dressing room
3)give him more rest and playing days at par with other regulars
4)facilitate his playing in league that pay him money so that his income is not hurt.....OR compensate by paying him a higher wage rate since he is such a premium player

we might see him back ...with more money, more holidays ...since some of his conditions on that list already been fullfilled

you're talking rubbish. have you seen the you tube video. He mentions unconditional return on several occasions.

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Post by KP_fan on Thu 30 Aug 2012, 3:04 pm

He mentions unconditional return on several occasions

yeah...he was comply to the notional , ego satisfying "demands" of ECB...such as apologise, promise to be nice, say I love my country, write 1000 times ona piece of paper....test cricket is the most important form...... rub your nose in public etc.....
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Post by GSC on Thu 30 Aug 2012, 3:06 pm

He was told not to release that youtube video then did it anyway
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Post by Stella on Thu 30 Aug 2012, 3:06 pm

GSC wrote:The test series was cut down due to the Olympics and other events iirc.

Like the ODI's against Australia.
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Post by seanmichaels on Thu 30 Aug 2012, 3:12 pm

KP_fan wrote:
He mentions unconditional return on several occasions

yeah...he was comply to the notional , ego satisfying "demands" of ECB...such as apologise, promise to be nice, say I love my country, write 1000 times ona piece of paper....test cricket is the most important form...... rub your nose in public etc.....

Do you play a team sport?

If he doesn't like it he can go and live in Delhi.

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Post by KP_fan on Thu 30 Aug 2012, 3:12 pm

GSC wrote:He was told not to release that youtube video then did it anyway

we will find out the truth only when he speaks.......so far we hear only one parties versions....and that too from leaked-sources
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Post by LondonTiger on Thu 30 Aug 2012, 3:14 pm

KP_fan wrote:
GSC wrote:He was told not to release that youtube video then did it anyway

we will find out the truth only when he speaks.......so far we hear only one parties versions....and that too from leaked-sources

The

best

joke

i have heard


this summer.

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Post by GSC on Thu 30 Aug 2012, 3:21 pm

He was told it was in direct violation his contract.

Got any facts to back up your claims?
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Post by KP_fan on Thu 30 Aug 2012, 3:26 pm

GSC wrote:He was told it was in direct violation his contract.

who told him so.....and how do you know ?
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Post by Stella on Thu 30 Aug 2012, 3:28 pm

I think you lot are going round in circles.
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Post by seanmichaels on Thu 30 Aug 2012, 3:31 pm

KP_fan wrote:
GSC wrote:He was told it was in direct violation his contract.

who told him so.....and how do you know ?

Because he has been find on at least 2 occasions and accepted them perhaps?

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Post by Fists of Fury on Thu 30 Aug 2012, 3:43 pm

Someone wake me up when KP fan has stopped posting on this thread, please.

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Post by KP_fan on Thu 30 Aug 2012, 4:09 pm

seanmichaels wrote:
KP_fan wrote:
GSC wrote:He was told it was in direct violation his contract.

who told him so.....and how do you know ?

Because he has been find on at least 2 occasions and accepted them perhaps?

was he fined for releasing this video on U-Tube ?
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Post by DouglasJardinesbox on Thu 30 Aug 2012, 4:58 pm

seanmichaels wrote:
Fists of Fury wrote:It amazes me how all this nonsense is so regularly churned out. If we believed everything we hear then Pietersen wouldn't have spent any time playing cricket, but all of it slagging people off.

Take it with an enormous heap of salt, particularly if Pringle is the source.

That wasn't Pringle. Jack Bannister was discussing it on TalkSport this morning with a great deal of vigour. As I said, I'd also heard the same allegations just after the Headingly test which originated from the dressing room.

As for Pietersen, can you really defend the bloke? Everyone at Natal hates him (he used to use their nets in winter while at Notts and give it the Mr Big routine), everyone at Notts hates him and now everyone at Hampshire hates him. It seems he has 2 friends in cricket, Gough who is thick and Warne who is a plank.

I bet Goughie and Warne think highly of you.

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Post by Hibbz on Thu 30 Aug 2012, 8:05 pm

seanmichaels wrote:
Kevin Pietersen’s conduct came under further scrutiny on Sunday when he was accused of making derogatory comments about James Taylor during the Headingley Test where his relationship with England reached breaking point.
As it emerged that Pietersen swapped angry words with a senior player, after criticising debutant Taylor and boasting of his own importance to England during his brilliant 149 in Leeds........

But the latest damaging revelations will only increase England’s hardline stance towards their errant star as they take the first step in what is likely to be a long road towards reconciliation.

Pietersen shared a 147-run stand with Taylor during the second Test, but angered England by walking off the field at tea on the third day talking to the South African players rather than encouraging his rookie partner.

Later that day, according to Sunday’s People newspaper, he launched into a tirade which precipitated the text scandal that now threatens his international future.





You say the tirade was at tea, Sunday People say it was later in the day. At least one of you is talking pony.

The following is taken from the live commentary from cricinfo

"Morkel to Taylor, OUT, 85.0 mph, bowled him! Taylor's fine resistance on debut comes to an end. He wasn't forward to the full length ball around off stump and it cannoned into the stumps off the inside edge. Headingley gives him a big ovation, he's played well.
JWA Taylor b Morkel 34 (153m 104b 4x4 0x6) SR: 32.69
Pietersen gave him several pats on the back as Taylor walked off"


Plenty of rumour and here-say flying about so I'll end this post with a fact

Kevin Pietersen Test Match Average 49.48


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Post by KP_fan on Fri 31 Aug 2012, 11:17 am

--KP agrees to meet Flower and ECB management tomorrow..says telegraph below
--the text message were not sent as sms...but as Blackberry messages...so no record of what was sent.....or even if anything was sent at all Very Happy
--But honest KP will not deny that anything was sent ....he will admit having ssent some banter and harmless jokes .....and ECB will ( have to) accept him on face value .....what other option do they have Very Happy

As is clear from his interview given a few weeks back but published yesterday.....that he wants a window for T20 leagues.

--give that smoke and screens of text messages have collapsed......the situation stands like it was on D5 of the Headingley test......KP is not happy with his work overload...as the most worked English player.....he is being targetted in the dressing room......he will explain his concerns and negotiate.

--ECB can still deny him a contract or basically s.crew him in any way they want.......but they don't have either logical reasons or legal evidence to do that. ...and I am sure ECB's rhetorics and ego talk throuhg media leaks notwithstanding......there must be legal advisors telling them that they are on slippery grounds.


He is believed to have agreed to a meeting with Andy Flower and Hugh Morris, the managing director of the England team, as the two sides try to solve their differences.

Both camps are keen for the issue to be resolved swiftly, although it is unlikely that one meeting will be the end of the process.

Flower and Morris will lead the negotiations on the ECB’s behalf before Alastair Cook, the new Test captain, takes a role.

The issue of the messages Kevin Pietersen sent to the South African team will be high on the agenda but will be far from easy to solve.

It is believed many of the exchanges were conducted not via text message but through the instant messaging system of Blackberry messenger and none have been stored.



Blackberry messenger is used by many sportsmen and celebrities as a method of exchange because a user can set the phone up to not store old messages, making it safer if the handset is lost or stolen.

Whereas evidence of a text appears on an itemised phone bill, Blackberry messenger exchanges do not, making them virtually impossible to trace.

In this situation it means the ECB will have to accept Pietersen’s word on what the exchanges involved. If true, it offers a convenient escape route for both Pietersen and the ECB.

It is easier to move on if there is no factual record of what took place. So far, Pietersen has admitted they contained “provocative” content while the South African management have dismissed them as mere “banter”.

Pietersen is believed to have contacted the ECB to set up the meeting which fits in between England’s one-day internationals in London this weekend and Surrey’s fixtures.

Both sides insist the meeting has to take place “behind closed doors”.

The key to moving forward, particularly for an England side with a new captain, is nailing down Pietersen’s long-term ambitions. The schedule clash between the IPL and England matches will not be solved during Pietersen’s career.

He has changed his mind several times this summer between retiring from England one-day cricket to play in the IPL to then restating his desire to appear in all formats of international cricket. England will not want to accept Pietersen back in the fold only for him to change his position six months down the line.

Central contracts will probably be rubber-stamped by the ECB board next month but there remains the possibility of offering Pietersen a deal later this year.
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Post by LondonTiger on Fri 31 Aug 2012, 11:59 am

KP_fan wrote:He has changed his mind several times this summer between retiring from England one-day cricket to play in the IPL to then restating his desire to appear in all formats of international cricket. England will not want to accept Pietersen back in the fold only for him to change his position six months down the line. [/i]

This is the crux. As one of the better players available to England he would be an assett on th epitch. However they need to build a team - and can they count on him to be available?

I have no problem with him wanting to retire from limited overs cricket, but wanting to pick and choose what matches he will play in, including Tests, is not acceptable. If he wants to play the full IPL, then he should retire from Test cricket.

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Post by KP_fan on Fri 31 Aug 2012, 12:10 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
KP_fan wrote:He has changed his mind several times this summer between retiring from England one-day cricket to play in the IPL to then restating his desire to appear in all formats of international cricket. England will not want to accept Pietersen back in the fold only for him to change his position six months down the line. [/i]

This is the crux. As one of the better players available to England he would be an assett on th epitch. However they need to build a team - and can they count on him to be available?

I have no problem with him wanting to retire from limited overs cricket, but wanting to pick and choose what matches he will play in, including Tests, is not acceptable. If he wants to play the full IPL, then he should retire from Test cricket.

I agree...this is indeed ECB's dilemma...
Not whether to give him the contrcat or not.....giving KP the contract and with some written / unwritten concessions is a given.......especially with Strauss out of the way now.
What if he takes the negotiated deal now.......and comes back and asks for more......is their fear.

well trust is the key here.......they have to make him feel loved, and important ( not unduly but give him the due for being amongst the best in the world).......and driven by his sense of pride...he will continue to peform and deliver for England.


short summary: man-managing KP is the key
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Post by seanmichaels on Fri 31 Aug 2012, 1:28 pm

He needs to be managed out of the country

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Post by mystiroakey on Fri 31 Aug 2012, 1:39 pm

look surely if you sign a contract then you have to adhear to that contract or the ECB could sue. Infact they could write into the contract that if KP did go to the IPL then they actually own him and the money would have to go to the ECB anyway!!

Personally i think the ECB should just pay our players abit more money. And somone of KPS standard should be paid quite alot in fairness. Then they could draw up very stern contracts

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Post by KP_fan on Fri 31 Aug 2012, 2:39 pm

seanmichaels wrote:He needs to be managed out of the country

it's unfair to say such a thing
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Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) on Fri 31 Aug 2012, 2:56 pm

KP_fan wrote:
seanmichaels wrote:He needs to be managed out of the country

it's unfair to say such a thing

It's no different to some of the things you've said about Strauss, Flower and the ECB KPF. Pots and kettles.
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Post by msp83 on Fri 31 Aug 2012, 4:00 pm

Pietersen adds a 47 ball 58 with 4 6s in Surrey's 2nd innings in their CC match against Somerset on top of his first innings 163 at a strike rate of almost 100.

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Post by mystiroakey on Fri 31 Aug 2012, 4:04 pm

good on surrey. englands loss is my countys gain atm

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Post by KP_fan on Mon 03 Sep 2012, 2:11 am

there will be more meetings.....should we assume that first round was susccessful....hence there will be more meetiings ?
Pringle is known to put a negative KP spin on his view?

what he does confirm that the dressing room is hostile for KP.......and that
aligns with Daily Mail's earlier reports that the seniors in dresing room do not want him back.


By Nick Hoult and Derek Pringle
9:16PM BST 02 Sep 2012
3 Comments
Pietersen met with Andy Flower, the team director, on Saturday and it is understood more meetings will be needed before enough common ground is found for a resolution to be a serious proposition.

Both sides have realised there are deep seated and complex issues to be resolved that will take time, something which is in short supply given England’s squad for India and central contracts ideally need to be announced before they go to Sri Lanka for the World Twenty20.

Issues include the content of the messages Pietersen sent to the South African side, reintegrating him into a hostile dressing room and ascertaining Pietersen’s long term priorities. Pietersen has his own grumbles about colleagues and how he has been treated while Flower has to work out in his own mind if he can rebuild a relationship with a player he feels let down by.

There had been suggestions the announcements could be delayed but Flower is believed to want to let players know where they stand before the winter begins with the World Twenty20 tournament.
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Post by msp83 on Mon 03 Sep 2012, 7:03 am

Has someone else, a bit sensible unlike the 30 test trasher reported something useful on this?

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Post by KP_fan on Mon 03 Sep 2012, 10:41 am

msp83 wrote:Has someone else, a bit sensible unlike the 30 test trasher reported something useful on this?

somebody put a "leak-plug" on Very Happy
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Post by DouglasJardinesbox on Mon 03 Sep 2012, 11:37 am

Clearly the discussions were held behind closed doors. Or were they? If the players are unhappy with KP, and don't want him around, I hope Flowers has the bails to tell them that he is unhappy with them, because they cannot score any runs.

Which is more important?

A happy touchy feely dressing room, or cricketers who can play the game to a world class level?

I know what I'd want.....

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Post by KP_fan on Mon 03 Sep 2012, 8:53 pm

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/england-duo-back-pietersen-return-135741141.htm

Morgan and Bopara come out to state that they welcome KP's return.......or more so they are clariying it's not them that are resistant to the return.

Well....we never suspected them....the suspects are the usual 1 WK, 1 offspinner, 1 "fast bowler" @ tearaway 77mph who also scores with the bat against Ind and Pak......and that's about the extent of resistance
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Post by Liam on Mon 03 Sep 2012, 8:56 pm

I hope KP is back sooner than later. He takes England to a whole new level performance wise and I think they should have a team meeting to clear the air. Go out there, play cricket, bowlers take your wickets and batsmen score your runs and let's move on, we have a big series vs Indian on the horizon...

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Post by ShankyCricket on Mon 03 Sep 2012, 9:37 pm

KP_fan wrote:http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/england-duo-back-pietersen-return-135741141.htm

Morgan and Bopara come out to state that they welcome KP's return.......or more so they are clariying it's not them that are resistant to the return.

Well....we never suspected them....the suspects are the usual 1 WK, 1 offspinner, 1 "fast bowler" @ tearaway 77mph who also scores with the bat against Ind and Pak......and that's about the extent of resistance
Who? Definitely not Prior who has openly supported KP?

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Post by KP_fan on Mon 03 Sep 2012, 9:52 pm

shankythebiggestengfan wrote:
KP_fan wrote:http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/england-duo-back-pietersen-return-135741141.htm

Morgan and Bopara come out to state that they welcome KP's return.......or more so they are clariying it's not them that are resistant to the return.

Well....we never suspected them....the suspects are the usual 1 WK, 1 offspinner, 1 "fast bowler" @ tearaway 77mph who also scores with the bat against Ind and Pak......and that's about the extent of resistance
Who? Definitely not Prior who has openly supported KP?

who else calssifies as senior ?
Trott was the most forthright in support.
Cook doesn't appear to be the type who will hold a grudge
Anderson...perhaps
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Post by ShankyCricket on Mon 03 Sep 2012, 10:10 pm

KP_fan wrote:
shankythebiggestengfan wrote:
KP_fan wrote:http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/england-duo-back-pietersen-return-135741141.htm

Morgan and Bopara come out to state that they welcome KP's return.......or more so they are clariying it's not them that are resistant to the return.

Well....we never suspected them....the suspects are the usual 1 WK, 1 offspinner, 1 "fast bowler" @ tearaway 77mph who also scores with the bat against Ind and Pak......and that's about the extent of resistance
Who? Definitely not Prior who has openly supported KP?

who else calssifies as senior ?
Trott was the most forthright in support.
Cook doesn't appear to be the type who will hold a grudge
Anderson...perhaps
Prior is the one who approached KP to try and mediate the issues between KP and the ECB. And you think its Prior. picard picard picard picard picard

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Post by GSC on Mon 03 Sep 2012, 10:57 pm

Can the mods close this trainwreck of a topic now?
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Post by eirebilly on Tue 04 Sep 2012, 6:36 am

No dont close it, this is one of the threads that i look for new updates to get a little chuckle Very Happy
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Post by KP_fan on Tue 04 Sep 2012, 7:02 am

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/international/england/9518748/England-can-win-World-Twenty20-without-Kevin-Pietersen-says-Graeme-Swann.html

England can win World Twenty20 without Kevin Pietersen
, ......says Graeme Swann

ha ha ha....he's getting nervous about an impending return...and reassuring ECB/ Flower/ Cook etal locked in talks........you don't really need him...I will win it for you Very Happy
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Post by eirebilly on Tue 04 Sep 2012, 8:22 am

I have to admire your obsession KP_fan Very Happy
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Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) on Tue 04 Sep 2012, 9:14 am

Personally I'd be disappointed if a sportsman DIDN'T back himself to win a tournament regardless.

That said, I wouldn't have England favourites to win even with KP.
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