Ghosts of spin come back to haunt England

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Ghosts of spin come back to haunt England

Post by KP_fan on Sun 23 Sep 2012, 5:50 pm



--Boy of Boy !...the implications of England's display against spin are far reaching beyond the context of the dead game today..or even this world cup.

--It wasn't even a square turning, jumping spin-top...just a slow turner.

--It wasn't even the first choice Indian spinning attack.....wasn't even India's second choice spin attack.....it was 3rd tier.

in a test match Ashwin, Ojha, Dharekar, Rahul sharma and now even Harmeet are ahead in the Peking Order than Bhajji and out of no where given an international call Chawla.

--Bairstow was beaten neck and crop by a Bhajji Doosra...and then bowled off a googly that didn't turn much...Morgan didn't read bhajji's arm ball.......and then ghosts of spin started playing in Eng's mind.....they froze like rabbits in headlight...and doing all the unusual things like reverse sweep walk away from stumps....nudges....paddles anything but straight bat down the ground hits.

--In india we all thouhgt 50 overs were too short for spin to have an impact ...but Eng surprised getting were walloped 5-0 to spin....and now 20 overs are proving about 10 overs too many for England to last against spin.

--what will they do in the 4 tests in India is the question on everyone's mind today even as we watch a T20 game....

--when do we see Dhoni put 4 close in fielders in a T20 game ??.

Will KP get the contrcat of his liking next week laughing
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Re: Ghosts of spin come back to haunt England

Post by KP_fan on Sun 23 Sep 2012, 5:53 pm

Harbhajan is back....
the break from the grind of international cricket......and the fire lit under him by Ashwin has got him going....

he is bowling slower.....floating and flighting on the off stump....turning his off breaks and most importantly the Doosra is going deceptively well.

he is back and good news for India's selectors
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Re: Ghosts of spin come back to haunt England

Post by Duty281 on Sun 23 Sep 2012, 5:54 pm

Can't read anything from a T20, silly batting, only a couple of good balls. Would have happened against spin, seam or swing. Congratulations on winning the warm-up India, see you in November when it matters.

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Re: Ghosts of spin come back to haunt England

Post by Duty281 on Sun 23 Sep 2012, 5:57 pm

KP_fan wrote:Harbhajan is back....
the break from the grind of international cricket......and the fire lit under him by Ashwin has got him going....

he is bowling slower.....floating and flighting on the off stump....turning his off breaks and most importantly the Doosra is going deceptively well.

he is back and good news for India's selectors

Doh Harbhajan is not back because of a decent 4 over spell. Doh

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Re: Ghosts of spin come back to haunt England

Post by KP_fan on Sun 23 Sep 2012, 5:59 pm

Duty281 wrote:
KP_fan wrote:Harbhajan is back....
the break from the grind of international cricket......and the fire lit under him by Ashwin has got him going....

he is bowling slower.....floating and flighting on the off stump....turning his off breaks and most importantly the Doosra is going deceptively well.

he is back and good news for India's selectors

Doh Harbhajan is not back because of a decent 4 over spell. Doh

He is back because having watched most of his 100 tests....I see he is back...from what I saw today
4 overs is enough for me to say so


Last edited by KP_fan on Sun 23 Sep 2012, 6:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Ghosts of spin come back to haunt England

Post by KP_fan on Sun 23 Sep 2012, 6:00 pm

a 100 run victory....would be convincing even in a 5 day test.....unbelievable and shocking paralysis displayed by England batsmen today
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Re: Ghosts of spin come back to haunt England

Post by Duty281 on Sun 23 Sep 2012, 6:01 pm

KP_fan wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
KP_fan wrote:Harbhajan is back....
the break from the grind of international cricket......and the fire lit under him by Ashwin has got him going....

he is bowling slower.....floating and flighting on the off stump....turning his off breaks and most importantly the Doosra is going deceptively well.

he is back and good news for India's selectors

Doh Harbhajan is not back because of a decent 4 over spell. Doh

He is back because having watched most of his 100 tests....I see he is back.
4 overs is enough for me to say so

If he bowls well in a 10+ over spell in a Test Match, with batsmen playing proper cricket then yes, he is back. But not a 4 over spell with the batsmen trying to smash him to the boundary every ball.

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Re: Ghosts of spin come back to haunt England

Post by Mike Selig on Sun 23 Sep 2012, 6:22 pm

Actually I could pick Harbajhan's doosra almost every time. I don't think it's got harder to pick at all, I think it's a combination of a lot of English batsmen having never faced him, and importantly not expecting to. So they won't have spent much time analysing Harbajhan, you can bet most of the video analysis before the game would have centered on Ashwin. You can bet that that will change.

Having said that he bowled nicely, he varried his pace well.

The disappointing thing from England was it was back to the bad old creasebound days, and too often the sweep was the only response.

Bairstow was worrying. I said I thought he'd struggle in India before this game so that was no surprise.

The rest... meh. We know Morgan's a good player of spin, his issue was playing a shot which wasn't on having not been at the crease long enough. Kieswetter looked in good touch and knocked the spinners around ok for a bit as did Buttler.

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Re: Ghosts of spin come back to haunt England

Post by Guest on Sun 23 Sep 2012, 6:24 pm

Harbajhan didnt even spin the ball!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Re: Ghosts of spin come back to haunt England

Post by msp83 on Sun 23 Sep 2012, 6:26 pm

KPF did you see the harmony in that Happy England side? They revel in each other's failure. Damn KP act smart and scores when the others fail!. Never bring him back!!.
What a harmonious, united, happy performance today from Team Harmony!. Kevin Who?

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Re: Ghosts of spin come back to haunt England

Post by KP_fan on Sun 23 Sep 2012, 6:27 pm

msp83 wrote:KPF did you see the harmony in that Happy England side? They revel in each other's failure. Damn KP act smart and scores when the others fail!. Never bring him back!!.
What a harmonious, united, happy performance today from Team Harmony!. Kevin Who?

Yahoo
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Re: Ghosts of spin come back to haunt England

Post by Mike Selig on Sun 23 Sep 2012, 6:30 pm

msp83 wrote:KPF did you see the harmony in that Happy England side? They revel in each other's failure. Damn KP act smart and scores when the others fail!. Never bring him back!!.
What a harmonious, united, happy performance today from Team Harmony!. Kevin Who?

Come on, you're better than that. That's 3 times you've made the comment, presumably to get a rise out of someone. Why can't you concentrate on the cricket actually being played? You didn't use to be a WUM...

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Re: Ghosts of spin come back to haunt England

Post by msp83 on Sun 23 Sep 2012, 6:33 pm

I might have been a touch harsh in the post above, but in all seriousness, if this is the kind of mindset that England is going to take to India, without their best batsman, then the heavens help them. They were just absolutely awful. Bairstow is a fine tallent and Buttler can hit the long ball at times, but then there is a lot of work that needed to be done if they don't want a repeat of last winter. Kevin Pietersen, Alastair Cook and Matt Prior are England's best bet to counter spin, the young players have a fair few way to go.

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Re: Ghosts of spin come back to haunt England

Post by msp83 on Sun 23 Sep 2012, 6:37 pm

Mike, if this is the kind of cricket they are playing in the sub-continent, well there won't be much to write about it.
Many here repeatedly suggested that England would be a better side without Pietersen and that the young players are more than good replacements.

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Re: Ghosts of spin come back to haunt England

Post by KP_fan on Sun 23 Sep 2012, 6:37 pm

The pitches in tests will be 4X more dfficult that this...because they will jump and turn will be sharper.

and the quality of spin bolwing from India 1.5X better.

and Swann has shown the writings were on the wall for Eng......butno one would have imagined an attack of paralysis.

Eng should play in India Monty in the 11........if they are not in self denial...for even Indian batsmen are troubled by good spin bolwing.

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Re: Ghosts of spin come back to haunt England

Post by Mike Selig on Sun 23 Sep 2012, 6:39 pm

I wouldn't say you were harsh, I'd say you were deliberately trying to wind people up. WUMing. Which is a shame, because usually you're a good poster.

Pietersen retired from T20s not long ago, and England have generally been ok in his absence. It's hard to see that he would have made all the difference today in any case, given how abjectly the rest of the side batted. He may even have been just as hopeless (UAE anyone?). My point is it's useless continuing to speculate on what could be happening.

These batsmen are better than what they showed today, they have to go away, learn the lessons and improve for the rest of the tournament. That's the story here.

And England also need to cut out the basic errors from their fielding. 155 would have been a very different chase.

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Re: Ghosts of spin come back to haunt England

Post by msp83 on Sun 23 Sep 2012, 6:49 pm

Swann of course bowled well and the Indians found it dificult to get him away. India would do well not to underestimate him during the test series. He may not be hyper effective, but effective enough.
But it is the battin frot that England will have to be more worried about. Of tests are a different ball game all together, there will be more time for the batsmen to settle, there won't be too much pressure of scoring quickly....... But they have to get their basic game right, Sweep isn't the only shot you can play against the spinner. With more attacking fields and hopefully turning and bouncing pitches, it would be dificult if they don't sort the mental part of the game, even more so.

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Re: Ghosts of spin come back to haunt England

Post by Mike Selig on Sun 23 Sep 2012, 6:56 pm

msp83 wrote:Swann of course bowled well and the Indians found it dificult to get him away. India would do well not to underestimate him during the test series. He may not be hyper effective, but effective enough.
But it is the battin frot that England will have to be more worried about. Of tests are a different ball game all together, there will be more time for the batsmen to settle, there won't be too much pressure of scoring quickly....... But they have to get their basic game right, Sweep isn't the only shot you can play against the spinner. With more attacking fields and hopefully turning and bouncing pitches, it would be dificult if they don't sort the mental part of the game, even more so.

Good post. I'd like to see the England players use their feet a lot more - can't remember any of the batsmen coming down the pitch and looking to hit straight. Words like "fearless" have been used to talk about Bairstow and Buttler, but clearly that's bunkum.

Swann will keep things tidy and pick up the odd wicket, and maybe have one very good spell. If he does that then he'll have done his job.

But for England to have a chance they'll have to bat x times better than last winter and today. Bell will help, provided he's got over the mental scars from last winter, as will Prior. Morgan? Jury very much out, but he'll be crucial you feel.

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Re: Ghosts of spin come back to haunt England

Post by msp83 on Sun 23 Sep 2012, 7:06 pm

Bell doesn't have a very good record in India. He plays spin so well in England, and played well against Murali in Lanka. But he has found India really dificult. Will be a major challenge for him. He would be missing one of the matches isn't it?
Bairstow has work to do on his spin playing technique. Most of the England squad need a session on the mindset on playing spin.
I hope the BCCI won't ruin the funn though, by preparing awful flat roads on which Boycott's granny can score hundreds for fun.

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Re: Ghosts of spin come back to haunt England

Post by JDizzle on Sun 23 Sep 2012, 7:08 pm

I didn't see the game today, so I can;t comment on how England batted today but anyone who thinks KP coming back would solve our issues against spin is utterly wrong. I don't know where this myth has come from that he is an unbelievable player of spin, I certainly would place Morgan and Bell above him as better players of it.

It's not so long ago he couldn't buy a run against a left arm spinner so one innings in SL doesn't change the fact that he himself has issues against spin himself. He was as bad as everyone else in the UAE remember.

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Re: Ghosts of spin come back to haunt England

Post by msp83 on Sun 23 Sep 2012, 7:19 pm

The point with Pietersen is, as captain Cook said he's a world class batsman in all formats in all conditions. His absent presence will haunt England, particularly if the performances are bad. It may take the focus away from the cricket played and would take you to the realm of speculation, but as the grounds of his forced exclusion aren't cricketing, that won't go away easily. Pietersen may or may not have made a difference today, but with him in there, England's chances are always better.
He has had his share of problems with left arm spinners and he of course did struggle in the UAE. But then he played Shane Warne a great deal better than Bell ever could dream of, smashed Murali around for fun, dealt with Kumble alright, dominated Harbhajan at times. Also it should be remembered that when he got out to Suliman Ben in the West Indies he was out for 97. He got out to Paul Harris when he was on 94, he was bowled by a Bangladeshi left armer for 99. So the weakness against left arm spin itself has to be put into perspective. Morgan's only major test against spin has been a failure. I can't understand how could people place him above KP as a better player of spin.
How is Kompton against spin in county cricket by the way? For that matter Root?

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Re: Ghosts of spin come back to haunt England

Post by Duty281 on Sun 23 Sep 2012, 7:24 pm

msp83 wrote:I might have been a touch harsh in the post above, but in all seriousness, if this is the kind of mindset that England is going to take to India, without their best batsman, then the heavens help them. They were just absolutely awful. Bairstow is a fine tallent and Buttler can hit the long ball at times, but then there is a lot of work that needed to be done if they don't want a repeat of last winter. Kevin Pietersen, Alastair Cook and Matt Prior are England's best bet to counter spin, the young players have a fair few way to go.

Please tell me that you are joking/wumming when you say that. You cannot seriously consider that England will take this T20 batting mindset into a Test Series especially when only 1, maybe 2 of these batsmen will be in the Test side.

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Re: Ghosts of spin come back to haunt England

Post by Duty281 on Sun 23 Sep 2012, 7:25 pm

KP_fan wrote:The pitches in tests will be 4X more dfficult that this...because they will jump and turn will be sharper.

and the quality of spin bolwing from India 1.5X better.


and Swann has shown the writings were on the wall for Eng......butno one would have imagined an attack of paralysis.

Eng should play in India Monty in the 11........if they are not in self denial...for even Indian batsmen are troubled by good spin bolwing.


And the quality of the English batting during the Tests will be 4x better as well.

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Re: Ghosts of spin come back to haunt England

Post by msp83 on Sun 23 Sep 2012, 7:45 pm

England's downfall today was not just the result of a T-20 batting mindset. They were trying to hit the pacers right out of the park from ball one unlike what they did against Afghanistan or for that matter what they have been doing genrally. They used to take their time early, keep wickets in hand keep the singles and some boundaries going before launching. But today it seemed they wanted to cash in on the seamers before spin was to come on and when it eventually did they played as if the only shot that can be played against a spinner is a sweep.
So today's outcome was not just the result of a bad execution of an otherwise successful T-20 batting style. Spin had an effect from ball one, even though the spinner came on only in the 6th over.
Most interesting, the track wasn't a minefield by any means.

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Re: Ghosts of spin come back to haunt England

Post by msp83 on Sun 23 Sep 2012, 7:48 pm

Duty281 wrote:
KP_fan wrote:The pitches in tests will be 4X more dfficult that this...because they will jump and turn will be sharper.

and the quality of spin bolwing from India 1.5X better.


and Swann has shown the writings were on the wall for Eng......butno one would have imagined an attack of paralysis.

Eng should play in India Monty in the 11........if they are not in self denial...for even Indian batsmen are troubled by good spin bolwing.


And the quality of the English batting during the Tests will be 4x better as well.
England batting has been struggling a bit in test matches from last winter onwards. It was not just a case of playing spin in the sub-continent. They struggled against the West Indies and South Africa as well. How many times did they go pass 400 in the summer?

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Re: Ghosts of spin come back to haunt England

Post by Duty281 on Sun 23 Sep 2012, 7:53 pm

msp83 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
KP_fan wrote:The pitches in tests will be 4X more dfficult that this...because they will jump and turn will be sharper.

and the quality of spin bolwing from India 1.5X better.


and Swann has shown the writings were on the wall for Eng......butno one would have imagined an attack of paralysis.

Eng should play in India Monty in the 11........if they are not in self denial...for even Indian batsmen are troubled by good spin bolwing.


And the quality of the English batting during the Tests will be 4x better as well.
England batting has been struggling a bit in test matches from last winter onwards. It was not just a case of playing spin in the sub-continent. They struggled against the West Indies and South Africa as well. How many times did they go pass 400 in the summer?

What was the score last time England played India in a Test Series? Was it 4-0 to the England?

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Re: Ghosts of spin come back to haunt England

Post by msp83 on Sun 23 Sep 2012, 7:56 pm

Duty281 wrote:
msp83 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
KP_fan wrote:The pitches in tests will be 4X more dfficult that this...because they will jump and turn will be sharper.

and the quality of spin bolwing from India 1.5X better.


and Swann has shown the writings were on the wall for Eng......butno one would have imagined an attack of paralysis.

Eng should play in India Monty in the 11........if they are not in self denial...for even Indian batsmen are troubled by good spin bolwing.


And the quality of the English batting during the Tests will be 4x better as well.
England batting has been struggling a bit in test matches from last winter onwards. It was not just a case of playing spin in the sub-continent. They struggled against the West Indies and South Africa as well. How many times did they go pass 400 in the summer?

What was the score last time England played India in a Test Series? Was it 4-0 to the England?
What is England's lowest T-20 total?

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Re: Ghosts of spin come back to haunt England

Post by Duty281 on Sun 23 Sep 2012, 7:58 pm

msp83 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
msp83 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
KP_fan wrote:The pitches in tests will be 4X more dfficult that this...because they will jump and turn will be sharper.

and the quality of spin bolwing from India 1.5X better.


and Swann has shown the writings were on the wall for Eng......butno one would have imagined an attack of paralysis.

Eng should play in India Monty in the 11........if they are not in self denial...for even Indian batsmen are troubled by good spin bolwing.


And the quality of the English batting during the Tests will be 4x better as well.
England batting has been struggling a bit in test matches from last winter onwards. It was not just a case of playing spin in the sub-continent. They struggled against the West Indies and South Africa as well. How many times did they go pass 400 in the summer?

What was the score last time England played India in a Test Series? Was it 4-0 to the England?
What is England's lowest T-20 total?

Now I know that England have never lost a Test to Zimbabwe, but I believe India have. Is that correct?

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Re: Ghosts of spin come back to haunt England

Post by KP_fan on Sun 23 Sep 2012, 8:04 pm

Mike Selig wrote: Pietersen retired from T20s not long ago, and England have generally been ok in his absence.

Eng have been abysmal in the absence of KP.
would have lost in Colombo and Headingley....did lose the 4th test......and now what we saw was shocking today.
KP may not have averted defeat.....but would have defied ignominy

Ha Ha.....some people are stung by reminders of Happy Dressing Room.......
losyt a 20 over game by a test match like margin...........but heck we are a Happy Barnie Family
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Re: Ghosts of spin come back to haunt England

Post by Mat on Sun 23 Sep 2012, 8:07 pm

KP_fan wrote:

--Boy of Boy !...the implications of England's display against spin are far reaching beyond the context of the dead game today..or even this world cup.

--It wasn't even a square turning, jumping spin-top...just a slow turner.

--It wasn't even the first choice Indian spinning attack.....wasn't even India's second choice spin attack.....it was 3rd tier.

in a test match Ashwin, Ojha, Dharekar, Rahul sharma and now even Harmeet are ahead in the Peking Order than Bhajji and out of no where given an international call Chawla.

--Bairstow was beaten neck and crop by a Bhajji Doosra...and then bowled off a googly that didn't turn much...Morgan didn't read bhajji's arm ball.......and then ghosts of spin started playing in Eng's mind.....they froze like rabbits in headlight...and doing all the unusual things like reverse sweep walk away from stumps....nudges....paddles anything but straight bat down the ground hits.

--In india we all thouhgt 50 overs were too short for spin to have an impact ...but Eng surprised getting were walloped 5-0 to spin....and now 20 overs are proving about 10 overs too many for England to last against spin.

--what will they do in the 4 tests in India is the question on everyone's mind today even as we watch a T20 game....

--when do we see Dhoni put 4 close in fielders in a T20 game ??.

Will KP get the contrcat of his liking next week laughing

Don't really get your point about the test matches? What bearing does this game have on the tests?

Hales-Doesn't play tests
Kieswetter-Doesn't play tests
Wright-Doesn't play tests
Morgan-May play
Buttler-Doesn't play tests
Bairsow-May play
Bresnan-Won't bat 7.

Only 2 of the batsman who played today even have a chance of playing in the test matches! Bairstow was worrying but we all know Morgan can play spin.

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Re: Ghosts of spin come back to haunt England

Post by msp83 on Sun 23 Sep 2012, 8:07 pm

India haven't lost to the Netherlands in a global tournament!.
Which team was bowled out for 72 chasing a lowly 145 to win a test match last winter?
Anyways this won't take us far, but my point is that England batting hasn't been as strong as it used to be during the last ashes as well as during the India series last year. It has been rather inconsistent from the last winter onwards and it has to be a matter of concern. Their bowling was pretty good to bail them out against the West Indies, and after a horrid first test it was again good enough against South Africa. But for Pietersen in the 2nd test the batting again was a bit of a let down.
Now there is no Strauss who had a terrific record in India and they are without Pietersen their best batsman, so the lineup is all the more inexperienced. Bairstow has to do more work on his technique if he has to come good against spin, I hope he can as he showed he can come back from a set back in the early stages of his young test career.
Cook is going to be key in my view.

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Re: Ghosts of spin come back to haunt England

Post by Duty281 on Sun 23 Sep 2012, 8:07 pm

KP_fan wrote:
Mike Selig wrote: Pietersen retired from T20s not long ago, and England have generally been ok in his absence.

Eng have been abysmal in the absence of KP.
would have lost in Colombo and Headingley....did lose the 4th test......and now what we saw was shocking today.
KP may not have averted defeat.....but would have defied ignominy

Ha Ha.....some people are stung by reminders of Happy Dressing Room.......
losyt a 20 over game by a test match like margin...........but heck we are a Happy Barnie Family

No no, a Test match like margin is:

England won by 196 runs
England won by 319 runs
England won by an innings and 242 runs
England won by an innings and 8 runs

At least those were the scores when England played Bangladesh India in 2011.

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Re: Ghosts of spin come back to haunt England

Post by KP_fan on Sun 23 Sep 2012, 8:08 pm

JDizzle wrote:I didn't see the game today, so I can;t comment on how England batted today but anyone who thinks KP coming back would solve our issues against spin is utterly wrong. I don't know where this myth has come from that he is an unbelievable player of spin, I certainly would place Morgan and Bell above him as better players of it.


It takes one man to turn the tide...like he did in Colombo and Headingley.

eng may not have won today...but could have been more competitive...and certtainly avoided ignominy.

As far as test matches go..........Bell will struggle to average 30 in India....and Morgan.......shouldn't even be anywhere close to a test match side.

The only guys who will offer a sembelance of fight in tests will be Cook and Trott.......because they are just well organized batsmen who can adapt
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Re: Ghosts of spin come back to haunt England

Post by KP_fan on Sun 23 Sep 2012, 8:10 pm

Duty281 wrote:
KP_fan wrote:
Mike Selig wrote: Pietersen retired from T20s not long ago, and England have generally been ok in his absence.

Eng have been abysmal in the absence of KP.
would have lost in Colombo and Headingley....did lose the 4th test......and now what we saw was shocking today.
KP may not have averted defeat.....but would have defied ignominy

Ha Ha.....some people are stung by reminders of Happy Dressing Room.......
losyt a 20 over game by a test match like margin...........but heck we are a Happy Barnie Family

No no, a Test match like margin is:

England won by 196 runs
England won by 319 runs
England won by an innings and 242 runs
England won by an innings and 8 runs

At least those were the scores when England played Bangladesh India in 2011.

Yes England are solid tigers at home against teams for whom English conditions are very foreign such as Ind, WI, Lanka and Pak
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Re: Ghosts of spin come back to haunt England

Post by Duty281 on Sun 23 Sep 2012, 8:11 pm

KP_fan wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
KP_fan wrote:
Mike Selig wrote: Pietersen retired from T20s not long ago, and England have generally been ok in his absence.

Eng have been abysmal in the absence of KP.
would have lost in Colombo and Headingley....did lose the 4th test......and now what we saw was shocking today.
KP may not have averted defeat.....but would have defied ignominy

Ha Ha.....some people are stung by reminders of Happy Dressing Room.......
losyt a 20 over game by a test match like margin...........but heck we are a Happy Barnie Family

No no, a Test match like margin is:

England won by 196 runs
England won by 319 runs
England won by an innings and 242 runs
England won by an innings and 8 runs

At least those were the scores when England played Bangladesh India in 2011.

Yes England are solid tigers at home against teams for whom English conditions are very foreign such as Ind, WI, Lanka and Pak

urine poor excuse, those conditions weren't very foreign for India in 2007 or 2002.

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Re: Ghosts of spin come back to haunt England

Post by Mat on Sun 23 Sep 2012, 8:13 pm

KP_fan wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
KP_fan wrote:
Mike Selig wrote: Pietersen retired from T20s not long ago, and England have generally been ok in his absence.

Eng have been abysmal in the absence of KP.
would have lost in Colombo and Headingley....did lose the 4th test......and now what we saw was shocking today.
KP may not have averted defeat.....but would have defied ignominy

Ha Ha.....some people are stung by reminders of Happy Dressing Room.......
losyt a 20 over game by a test match like margin...........but heck we are a Happy Barnie Family

No no, a Test match like margin is:

England won by 196 runs
England won by 319 runs
England won by an innings and 242 runs
England won by an innings and 8 runs

At least those were the scores when England played Bangladesh India in 2011.

Yes England are solid tigers at home against teams for whom English conditions are very foreign such as Ind, WI, Lanka and Pak

I sense some straw-clutching now. India are solid at home against teams for whom Indian conditions are very foreign, such as England.

Mat
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Re: Ghosts of spin come back to haunt England

Post by Mike Selig on Sun 23 Sep 2012, 8:17 pm

Less of the bitching please from both sides. You're both better than that (I ignore KPF, who isn't).

msp is right IMO in that the England batting is a concern.

Duty is right IMO in that we can't read too much into a dead rubber T20.

Statements that England would have done better with KP are silly, because you can't possibly know. KP may have dropped 6 catches, scored 0 off 15 balls and knocked out half the team by letting go of his bat in the dug out.

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Re: Ghosts of spin come back to haunt England

Post by KP_fan on Sun 23 Sep 2012, 8:19 pm

Mat wrote:
KP_fan wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
KP_fan wrote:
Mike Selig wrote: Pietersen retired from T20s not long ago, and England have generally been ok in his absence.

Eng have been abysmal in the absence of KP.
would have lost in Colombo and Headingley....did lose the 4th test......and now what we saw was shocking today.
KP may not have averted defeat.....but would have defied ignominy

Ha Ha.....some people are stung by reminders of Happy Dressing Room.......
losyt a 20 over game by a test match like margin...........but heck we are a Happy Barnie Family

No no, a Test match like margin is:

England won by 196 runs
England won by 319 runs
England won by an innings and 242 runs
England won by an innings and 8 runs

At least those were the scores when England played Bangladesh India in 2011.

Yes England are solid tigers at home against teams for whom English conditions are very foreign such as Ind, WI, Lanka and Pak

I sense some straw-clutching now. India are solid at home against teams for whom Indian conditions are very foreign, such as England.

that is true.....India are weak overseas.......and haven't invested in building their overseas skills heavily inspite of the warning signa
India are still strong at home on homely test matches.

The difference between India and Eng land thouhg now is that under the Dhoni and current BCCI regime........tests are no longer the most pristine form of the game...nor India aspirant of being the top test side as their prime objective.
They like their IPL......and will do well in home tests.

England meanwhile have declared Tests matches the most pristine form of the game...and becoming No.1 as a stated objective.....
So they've gotta be more worried about winning even in foreign conditons
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Re: Ghosts of spin come back to haunt England

Post by msp83 on Sun 23 Sep 2012, 8:20 pm

Both England and India are very strong at home Winning out of their comfort zone is the greater challenge. Its been 5 years since India won in England their last tour was a major disaster, and it has been 27 years since England last won in India.

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Re: Ghosts of spin come back to haunt England

Post by KP_fan on Sun 23 Sep 2012, 8:57 pm

in their group...Eng will have Mendises and Narine to contend with. Even WI might consider playing a 2nd spinner( they have a leggie in their squad) given that they have Bravo and Pollard and Smith and Sammy to bowl seam up
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Re: Ghosts of spin come back to haunt England

Post by Corporalhumblebucket on Sun 23 Sep 2012, 9:18 pm

KP_fan wrote: ....in a test match Ashwin, Ojha, Dharekar, Rahul sharma and now even Harmeet are ahead in the Peking Order than Bhajji and out of no where given an international call Chawla....
Presumably only those who can bowl a chinaman are entitled to be members of the Peking Order? Erm

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Re: Ghosts of spin come back to haunt England

Post by Shelsey93 on Sun 23 Sep 2012, 9:31 pm

Corporalhumblebucket wrote:
Presumably only those who can bowl a chinaman are entitled to be members of the Peking Order? Erm

Very Happy

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Re: Ghosts of spin come back to haunt England

Post by KP_fan on Sun 23 Sep 2012, 9:37 pm

Corporalhumblebucket wrote:
KP_fan wrote: ....in a test match Ashwin, Ojha, Dharekar, Rahul sharma and now even Harmeet are ahead in the Peking Order than Bhajji and out of no where given an international call Chawla....
Presumably only those who can bowl a chinaman are entitled to be members of the Peking Order? Erm

Very Happy
you have turned it into Chinese cricket for a missing C
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Re: Ghosts of spin come back to haunt England

Post by KP_fan on Sun 23 Sep 2012, 10:38 pm

Captain Stuart Broad claimed England's batsmen do not have a weakness against spin bowling.

"We just played particularly badly. I've seen the guys play spin extremely well, certainly in training," he said
. laughing

He's Naive...and almost Cute
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Re: Ghosts of spin come back to haunt England

Post by KP_fan on Sun 23 Sep 2012, 10:50 pm

Jonathan Agnew on Eng's Spin Frailities:

England will have very little chance of defending their World Twenty20 title in Sri Lanka if they perform anywhere near as badly as they did in the chastening 90-run defeat by India in Colombo on Sunday.

In Twenty20 cricket everything is spectacular and just as runs can come at an alarming rate, so can collapses. But England's batsmen were like rabbits in the headlights against the Indian spinners and there were some very worrying signs as we look ahead to the Super Eight phase of the competition.

Once again, England' shortcomings against spin bowling were exposed but if anyone who wasn't watching the match is under the misconception that the ball was turning a lot, let me assure you that it wasn't. This was just skilful slow bowling combined with pretty hapless batting, and once you get on that slippery slope in Twenty20 cricket it's very hard to get yourself back again because the run rate climbs so quickly.

Worryingly, India will take note of England's display and will now be even more likely to prepare pitches that turn for the November Test series.

It will have confirmed India's suspicions about England's frailties against spin and will not have done England's confidence in their ability to play slow bowlers any good at all.

In the short-term, England's Super Eight opponents will also be aware of their weakness against spin bowling and will prepare accordingly.

England play their next three matches in Pallekele, where the ball has been turning a lot more than it did in Colombo, and they are going to have to work out a method to perform against spin or they are really going to struggle in this tournament.

Given the nature of the Pallekele surface, Samit Patel will have an important role to play, and I was baffled by the decision to leave him out in favour of seamer Tim Bresnan against India.

Before the Afghanistan match, Stuart Broad was eulogising about the spirit in the camp and how he had never known it better, but this will be a real test of that spirit. People are bound to start talking about what a difference Kevin Pietersen would make
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Re: Ghosts of spin come back to haunt England

Post by KP_fan on Sun 23 Sep 2012, 10:54 pm

Michael Vaughan
Former England captain on Twitter "England will get a spin examination for the next few months. I would think India will play three or four spinners in the Tests. Learn fast or it's 4-0
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Re: Ghosts of spin come back to haunt England

Post by Shelsey93 on Sun 23 Sep 2012, 11:10 pm

For a start India won't play three or four spinners. Ashwin and Ojha will play and that will be it.

Also, Morgan and Bairstow are the only two batsmen that played today in the squad so its difficult to see that much relevance.

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Re: Ghosts of spin come back to haunt England

Post by ShankyCricket on Mon 24 Sep 2012, 6:12 am

Not sure why people think England batting would be suddenly better during the Test matches? IIRC, England were better in the shorter formats than Tests last winter. So now England struggle in T20 and suddenly Test batting line up is better?

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Re: Ghosts of spin come back to haunt England

Post by ShankyCricket on Mon 24 Sep 2012, 6:18 am

Shelsey93 wrote:For a start India won't play three or four spinners. Ashwin and Ojha will play and that will be it.

Also, Morgan and Bairstow are the only two batsmen that played today in the squad so its difficult to see that much relevance.
How do you know?

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Re: Ghosts of spin come back to haunt England

Post by ShankyCricket on Mon 24 Sep 2012, 6:24 am

Must say though I enjoyed every bit of the hammering dished out to England yesterday. Serves them right!

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