Mercedes now have best F1 driver in Lewis Hamilton

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Post by Belgarion of Riva on Sun Sep 30, 2012 2:47 pm

Mercedes now have the 'best driver' in Formula 1 after signing Lewis Hamilton, says triple world champion Niki Lauda.

Mercedes have won just one race in the last three years but Lauda - who is also joining the team - expects Hamilton to turn round their fortunes.

"In a bad car he is the best driver in the world because he is unbelievably quick and he makes no compromise," Lauda told Sportsweek on BBC 5 live.

"Lewis joining is high motivation. They have realised their weaknesses."

Hamilton has dramatically shaken up the 2013 F1 field by joining Mercedes in a three-year deal , ending both his 14-year association with McLaren and Michael Schumacher's comeback with the Silver Arrows.

Lauda, who is also joining Mercedes as a board member, talked through a potential move with Hamilton and tempted the 27-year-old with a chance to succeed where seven-time champion Schumacher failed.

"I was impressed with his approach to things, very pragmatic, no emotions whatsoever," revealed Lauda, who won the world title in 1975, 1977 and 1984.

"The real discussion was 'why should I leave a competitive car where my life is easy in the future?' So my argument was if you're looking for a new challenge then certainly the Mercedes team is one.

"And think of it the other way round, if Schumacher couldn't get the Mercedes team running up front for three years and you next year are doing much better it makes a huge impact on your personality and people will rate you much higher.

"In the end it convinced him that the challenge is what he wants to do. For a competitive guy like Lewis, it's very interesting."


Link to full story:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/19776917

Ciabbata isn't going to like this at all Whistle

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Post by Bull on Sun Sep 30, 2012 6:26 pm

imo i think the best driver currently in f1 is Alonso as he has showed he can succeed in a car which should be 3rd fastest but is leading the championship as well as getting points in every race apart from 1 which was not his fault.

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Post by Bentyf1 on Sun Sep 30, 2012 7:05 pm

Wasn't Lauda slaughtering Lewis last year after all his ding - dongs with Massa last year? and hasn't he also had a few digs at him this year?

Those big boys in Stuttgart will end up looking rather foolish in a few years if Lewis hasn't developed maturity yet.

On the subject of him being the best driver in F1 I totally disagree. Alonso is relentless, ruthless and is the silent assasin of the field. Always picking up points and staying out of trouble much like Kimi Raikkonen. I think if you wan't to look at the best driver on the grid currently, I suggest looking at the world championship table at the moment and that will give you your answer.

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Post by SteveG on Sun Sep 30, 2012 7:43 pm

If Mclaren hadnt messed up pitstops and strategy early in the season Hamilton would be leading this years championship at a canter. End of story.

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Post by Bentyf1 on Sun Sep 30, 2012 7:54 pm

SteveG wrote:If Mclaren hadnt messed up pitstops and strategy at the beginning of the season Hamilton would be leading this years championship at a canter. End of story.

Well if Michael Schumacher hadn't had all those mechanical errors which has dogged him this year then he would have been in a healthy state to be with Mercedes in 2013 and if he didn't make some silly errors in Spain and Singapore, granted. All if's i'm afraid.. all swings and roundabouts. If those events didn't happen Lewis would be sticking with McLaren for a couple of more years. Whistle

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Post by Critical_mass on Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:32 pm

What youve got to remember is Alonso has the full backing of the team and a team mate who's willing to back him up. So he should be doing as well as he is.

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Post by Guest on Mon Oct 01, 2012 12:05 pm

Lauda is embarrasing. Slaughtering Hamilton constantly last year. I agree with Brundle's view and what the majority think. Hamilton is the fastest and Alonso is the most complete.

Just shows how severe and desperate the situation at McLaren must have been for Lewis over the past few seasons if he accepts Mercedes deal after talking to a man who slated and destroyed him in the press constantly last season.

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Post by Belgarion of Riva on Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:57 pm

McLaren clearly have got their golden boy JB in the team and do not need LH anymore.

This is going to turn out so well for them. That Whitmarsh is a brilliant team manager






Doh

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Post by Fernando on Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:06 pm

Belgarion of Riva wrote:McLaren clearly have got their golden boy JB in the team and do not need LH anymore.

This is going to turn out so well for them. That Whitmarsh is a brilliant team manager






Doh

Since you can seemingly see into the future then id like tonights lottery draw numbers if you wouldn't mind thumbsup

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Post by Guest on Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:17 pm

Fernando wrote:
Belgarion of Riva wrote:McLaren clearly have got their golden boy JB in the team and do not need LH anymore.

This is going to turn out so well for them. That Whitmarsh is a brilliant team manager






Doh

Since you can seemingly see into the future then id like tonights lottery draw numbers if you wouldn't mind thumbsup

He's got more than a point though. Yes, they might create a good competitive car for Perez & JB but we all know they end up impeding their own drivers and holding them back. For a team like McLaren competing in F1 at the top level and not having either Alonso, Hamilton or Vettel in their ranks is quite frankly suicidal. Therefore, I would tend to agree with the comment made that it could turn out very badly for McLaren.

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Post by Fernando on Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:32 pm

John wrote:
Fernando wrote:
Belgarion of Riva wrote:McLaren clearly have got their golden boy JB in the team and do not need LH anymore.

This is going to turn out so well for them. That Whitmarsh is a brilliant team manager






Doh

Since you can seemingly see into the future then id like tonights lottery draw numbers if you wouldn't mind thumbsup

He's got more than a point though. Yes, they might create a good competitive car for Perez & JB but we all know they end up impeding their own drivers and holding them back. For a team like McLaren competing in F1 at the top level and not having either Alonso, Hamilton or Vettel in their ranks is quite frankly suicidal. Therefore, I would tend to agree with the comment made that it could turn out very badly for McLaren.

And since Mercedes have made midfield cars essentially full of promise then a major letdown so id be willing to bet anyone here that Button will finish higher then Hamilton next season.

All cars are going to have mechanical failures eventually over a season and Mclaren has clearly got their pitstops sorted out so they don't seem to be "holding" them back anymore.

Also if your car is good enough you don't need a top driver to win a world title, As you say John anyone could of won the title in the Brawn and same with Vettel last 2 seasons

It can't be called a mistake until it's happened so you need to wait and see before people start judging it a mistake OK

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Post by Guest on Tue Oct 02, 2012 5:32 pm

I agree with what you said but at this current time in F1 with the competition being incredibly close compared to the ridiculous 2009 season, not having an Alonso, Vettel or Hamilton leading the team is strange.

That's the intriguing thing about next season and this Hamilton move and how he will perform against Button in a McLaren, will the grass be greener, only time will tell. I'm sure winter testing will probably have the largest audience it's ever had next year. I'm confident Mercedes can turn it around, yes, Mclaren have improved their pitstops but I still think their a workforce that is reactive instead of being proactive and that characterstic flaw has cost them dearly in terms of strategy in key moments of races. It will be interesting to see if Perez is wiping the floor of Button next season and then suddenly strange mechanical issues or clear favouritism towards Button is shown, as what Hamilton fans have claimed over recent seasons and what I tend to agree has happened to a certain extent when Button is behind.


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Post by SteveG on Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:52 pm

John wrote:Just shows how severe and desperate the situation at McLaren must have been for Lewis over the past few seasons if he accepts Mercedes deal after talking to a man who slated and destroyed him in the press constantly last season.
This is my only reservation about the move. Was it inspired and calculated or was it because he just wanted out of Mclaren but coudn't secure a seat at either Red Bull or Ferrari. I just hope it was the former.

On the Mclaren argument I agree that without a Hamilton or an Alonso then if the car is not streets ahead of a Ferrari or a Red Bull - who have better drivers then they won't win a championship.

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Post by GSC on Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:04 pm

Losing Hamilton hurts, but McLaren could stand to gain from some peace in house I guess. Button can be a stable presence while Perez develops.

Big gamble for Hamilton. Being the best driver in a sub par car gets you nowhere as hes found out the last few years. I'd suggest Mercedes were probably 4th option and Red Bull/Ferrari/Lotus all said no.
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Post by SteveG on Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:28 pm

Never heard anything about an approach to Lotus. Can't see it myself.

Banking on the move to Merc being deliberate as he already knows many of the personnel and their capabilities from when they partnered Mclaren so he's not walking into the complete unknown. And there's Ross Brawn of course. Schmi recently stressed the importance of building special relationships and that it was core to his success (and something Alonso/Vettel currently enjoy) - remarks that wouldnt have gone unoticed by Hamilton.

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Post by Belgarion of Riva on Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:33 pm

Fernando wrote:
Belgarion of Riva wrote:McLaren clearly have got their golden boy JB in the team and do not need LH anymore.

This is going to turn out so well for them. That Whitmarsh is a brilliant team manager






Doh

Since you can seemingly see into the future then id like tonights lottery draw numbers if you wouldn't mind thumbsup


Of course, the lottery numbers are 1, 14, 15, 47, 49 and bonus balls are 5, 11

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Post by monty junior on Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:16 pm

Lauda sure has changed his tune..

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Post by tunes666 on Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:55 pm

IMO Alonso is the best form at the moment, but generally i think Vettel Alonso & Hamilton are all pretty close to call .. As a all hands on deck racer maybe Lewis takes it but like all sports there are lots of qualities that make you good.. His decision making at times has been awful and to be fair i think its only been one season where his car has not been capable of competing for the DCS.. So he has not really had to rough it in slow cars like most others..


Critical_mass wrote:What youve got to remember is Alonso has the full backing of the team and a team mate who's willing to back him up. So he should be doing as well as he is.
Utter tosh.

Both drivers have the same car and Massa is loved at Ferrari for years.. If anything he has not been taking enough points off of Alonsos rivals..

The only reason he can lend a hand now is due to being completely out of the title race by his own poor form.

And people are always quick to attack alonso when he gets help but when his qual lap was ruined in brazil because of a fault in the car, we saw him imidiatly go round again to give Massa a tow to make sure Massa got the best time possible.. Then its all quite.

If Massa is to help he n needs to be challenging around the podium putting other drivers under pressure not chugging away in 7th...

SteveG wrote:If Mclaren hadnt messed up pitstops and strategy early in the season Hamilton would be leading this years championship at a canter. End of story.
Hamilton admittedly has had bad luck this season, but he is not the only one and his decision making also invites problems paticuarly in the previous two seasons..

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Post by tunes666 on Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:06 pm

Belgarion of Riva wrote:McLaren clearly have got their golden boy JB in the team and do not need LH anymore.

This is going to turn out so well for them. That Whitmarsh is a brilliant team manager






Doh

I still think button is over rated.. When his car is fast and set up perfect then he can drive it very well, but he is lost at sea when the car has issues..

Lewis,Alonso and maybe Vettel can all go for a win when ge car is compromised..

I fancy Perez to start out pointing Button when he is settled. And i will hold my hands up if im wrong but while i think Button is a nice guy he wont be champ again unless he lands another perfect car.

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Post by tunes666 on Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:16 pm

John wrote:I agree with what you said but at this current time in F1 with the competition being incredibly close compared to the ridiculous 2009 season, not having an Alonso, Vettel or Hamilton leading the team is strange.

That's the intriguing thing about next season and this Hamilton move and how he will perform against Button in a McLaren, will the grass be greener, only time will tell. I'm sure winter testing will probably have the largest audience it's ever had next year. I'm confident Mercedes can turn it around, yes, Mclaren have improved their pitstops but I still think their a workforce that is reactive instead of being proactive and that characterstic flaw has cost them dearly in terms of strategy in key moments of races. It will be interesting to see if Perez is wiping the floor of Button next season and then suddenly strange mechanical issues or clear favouritism towards Button is shown, as what Hamilton fans have claimed over recent seasons and what I tend to agree has happened to a certain extent when Button is behind.


You mean the chap they signed as a child developed through the academies and invested millions in, who then finishes second in his first season and wins his second being world champ....

BUT is then pushed aside because the older guy Button who won the championship because his car was fastest in the first half of the season by a mile.. Comes along and for some reason Mclaren do not want Lewis to out point him...

Ahh ok :/

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Post by Critical_mass on Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:22 pm

tunes666 wrote:
Both drivers have the same car and Massa is loved at Ferrari for years.. If anything he has not been taking enough points off of Alonsos rivals..

The only reason he can lend a hand now is due to being completely out of the title race by his own poor form.

And people are always quick to attack alonso when he gets help but when his qual lap was ruined in brazil because of a fault in the car, we saw him imidiatly go round again to give Massa a tow to make sure Massa got the best time possible.. Then its all quite.

If Massa is to help he n needs to be challenging around the podium putting other drivers under pressure not chugging away in 7th...

Laugh What how can you say that, its well known Alonso gets privilages over Massa. As for Monza (i assume you mean, not Brazil) Alonso did suffer with an unfortunately anti roll bar fault. But he didnt even put half an effort into giving Massa a tow.

Who was attacking i was simply giving an opinion on it. I didnt say anything malicious just truthful.

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Post by GSC on Thu Oct 04, 2012 5:19 pm

Yeah Massa's pretty much told to get out of Alonsos way whenever hes ahead of him lol.
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Post by Guest on Thu Oct 04, 2012 5:46 pm

tunes666 wrote:
John wrote:I agree with what you said but at this current time in F1 with the competition being incredibly close compared to the ridiculous 2009 season, not having an Alonso, Vettel or Hamilton leading the team is strange.

That's the intriguing thing about next season and this Hamilton move and how he will perform against Button in a McLaren, will the grass be greener, only time will tell. I'm sure winter testing will probably have the largest audience it's ever had next year. I'm confident Mercedes can turn it around, yes, Mclaren have improved their pitstops but I still think their a workforce that is reactive instead of being proactive and that characterstic flaw has cost them dearly in terms of strategy in key moments of races. It will be interesting to see if Perez is wiping the floor of Button next season and then suddenly strange mechanical issues or clear favouritism towards Button is shown, as what Hamilton fans have claimed over recent seasons and what I tend to agree has happened to a certain extent when Button is behind.


You mean the chap they signed as a child developed through the academies and invested millions in, who then finishes second in his first season and wins his second being world champ....

BUT is then pushed aside because the older guy Button who won the championship because his car was fastest in the first half of the season by a mile.. Comes along and for some reason Mclaren do not want Lewis to out point him...

Ahh ok :/

Your saying that Lewis was not pushed out of McLaren? The situation at McLaren since Whitmarsh's JB signing has created an environment in McLaren which clearly was not favourable to Lewis. The situation was was so dire for him that he's left for Mercedes after being sweet talked by the very man who was slating him left right and centre last year. Stop going on about developing him as a child and the millions they spent on him, that does not mean he cannot leave the team for the rest of his career. In football you dont see youth players staying at their original clubs once they are developed and catching the world eyes. McLaren under Ron Dennis in 2007 to the McLaren team now is vastly different and Lewis needed to leave because the circumstance were not right and to treat him with a pay cut below Button was insulting.

Whitmarsh had a huge roll in this outcome. His JB signing was under the spotlight and his risk in bringing him to McLaren needed to pay off. Whitmarsh's own reputation was on the line with the JB signing and there were many situations where JB was given superior strategy to Lewis or pitstop preference when Lewis was ahead in the championship and when they could of kicked home their advantage. It's just another example of McLaren holding their superior driver back and that's where McLaren under this equal driver preference have kicked themselves in the foot unlike Ferrari with Alonso and Massa and Red Bull with Vettel and Webber.

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Post by SteveG on Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:40 pm

Agree. Mclaren's strive for parity between both their drivers in terms of operations and the development of the car was holding Hamilton back more than it was helping Button. This wasn't going to change under MW so Hami got out. Simples.

Mclaren have now managed to lose TWO of the best drivers in a generation. For a team whose motto is 'only exist to win' that takes some beating!!

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Post by tunes666 on Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:10 pm

Critical_mass wrote:

Laugh What how can you say that, its well known Alonso gets privilages over Massa. As for Monza (i assume you mean, not Brazil) Alonso did suffer with an unfortunately anti roll bar fault. But he didnt even put half an effort into giving Massa a tow.

Who was attacking i was simply giving an opinion on it. I didnt say anything malicious just truthful.

I did not say you were being malicious I was just highlighting you were wrong and that people are quick to come up with the rubbish you did Smile

Again, you are speaking complete garbage when saying it is well known Alonos gets privileges over Massa, complete rubbish. The simple fact is Alonso has been twice as good, and is backed when its clear he is the only one good enough and with enough points to challenge. Its strongly rumored that Vettel will be joining him in 2014, you think he is going to be a no2 driver?

And Again you are wrong about him not giving him a tow, when anyone who watched Quali saw it and heard the commentator highlight the team ethic that Alonso showed.

"Brazilian Felipe Massa, strongly assisted by his Ferrari team-mate Spaniard Fernando Alonso, was third fastest ahead of Briton Paul Di Resta of Force India"

"Massa was soon out again to set the pace for the scarlet scuderia with Alonso giving him a tow as the track temperature hit 40 before Hamilton went top with a lap in 1:24.010."

http://tensport.com.au/news/newsarticles/Motor-Racing-Hamilton-on-pole-at-Monza-Webber-11th.htm





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Post by tunes666 on Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:16 pm

John wrote:
Your saying that Lewis was not pushed out of McLaren?
Of course he was not forced out of McLaren. It was quite clear they very much wanted to keep him.


The situation at McLaren since Whitmarsh's JB signing has created an environment in McLaren which clearly was not favourable to Lewis[/quote]lol wake up...


The situation was was so dire for him that he's left for Mercedes after being sweet talked by the very man who was slating him left right and centre last year. Stop going on about developing him as a child and the millions they spent on him, that does not mean he cannot leave the team for the rest of his career. In football you dont see youth players staying at their original clubs once they are developed and catching the world eyes. McLaren under Ron Dennis in 2007 to the McLaren team now is vastly different and Lewis needed to leave because the circumstance were not right and to treat him with a pay cut below Button was insulting.
So you think for some mind boggling reason McLaren who brought Lewis up who is regarded as one of the fastest drivers today... Decided to push him out..

Eeerrr ok.

Whitmarsh had a huge roll in this outcome. His JB signing was under the spotlight and his risk in bringing him to McLaren needed to pay off. Whitmarsh's own reputation was on the line with the JB signing and there were many situations where JB was given superior strategy to Lewis or pitstop preference when Lewis was ahead in the championship and when they could of kicked home their advantage. It's just another example of McLaren holding their superior driver back and that's where McLaren under this equal driver preference have kicked themselves in the foot unlike Ferrari with Alonso and Massa and Red Bull with Vettel and Webber.
Whitmarsh is not there to prove he can sign the best drivers, he is there to win races and championships, for some reason you think They think Button is their best chance...

Dear oh dear me..




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Post by tunes666 on Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:25 pm

SteveG wrote:Agree. Mclaren's strive for parity between both their drivers in terms of operations and the development of the car was holding Hamilton back more than it was helping Button. This wasn't going to change under MW so Hami got out. Simples.

Mclaren have now managed to lose TWO of the best drivers in a generation. For a team whose motto is 'only exist to win' that takes some beating!!

People are so lost up Hamilton rear wing its shocking..




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Post by Guest on Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:54 pm

@tunes666 - what rock have you just crawled from under? Myself, CM & SteveG all have similar views, not because we are die hard Hamilton fans but because we are F1 fans who understand the sport and the ongoings on and off the track between the teams for many years. Your quick to state we are completely wrong, yet your knowledge is ridiculously poor and when you state Alonso aided Massa apparently at Brazil instead of Monza (only one month ago) by towing him just emphasises my point. Doh

tunes666 wrote:Of course he was not forced out of McLaren. It was quite clear they very much wanted to keep him.

So you think for some mind boggling reason McLaren who brought Lewis up who is regarded as one of the fastest drivers today... Decided to push him out..

Whitmarsh is not there to prove he can sign the best drivers, he is there to win races and championships, for some reason you think They think Button is their best chance...


If they very much wanted to keep him then why did they insult him with an offer less than JB? Hamilton is now driving for Mercedes in 2013.......they did a good job of trying to persuade him to stay didn't they. If they went the extra mile to keep him and offer him what he deserves in line with other top paid drivers in F1 like Alonso & Vettel the he would of stayed.

McLaren under Whitmarsh created an environment that did not sit comfortably with Hamilton for multiple seasons. When JB came to the team as Whitmarsh's signing, it urked Hamilton that the team focus and Whitmarsh's in particularly was taken away from him and it ultimately hurt his own chances of succeeding in winning titles as he felt the support of the team was reduced. Hamilton had to endure this uncomfortable and awkward working environment which clearly affected him and was the reasoning why he decided not to rush and renew his contract in the first place. If McLaren had sorted this situation out and cleared the tension within the team and reduced the working demands and advertisment duties that they placed upon Lewis then he may of stayed. These are some of the reasons why the actions of McLaren as a team forced Lewis to his decision.

Your final point stating, 'Whitmarsh is not there to prove he can sign the best drivers, he is there to win races and championships' is also very amusing.

How many constructors titles have McLaren won recently under Whitmarsh? If it wasn't for Hamilton the team would not even of had a recent WDC title. Whitmarsh's relationship with Button played a significant role in the departure of Hamilton. Hamilton is well rid of Whitmarsh and can look forward to working with a geniune world class technical director, a partnership which promises so much in the future of F1


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Post by SteveG on Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:24 pm

tunes666 wrote:
SteveG wrote:Agree. Mclaren's strive for parity between both their drivers in terms of operations and the development of the car was holding Hamilton back more than it was helping Button. This wasn't going to change under MW so Hami got out. Simples.

Mclaren have now managed to lose TWO of the best drivers in a generation. For a team whose motto is 'only exist to win' that takes some beating!!

People are so lost up Hamilton rear wing its shocking..
Many on here have varying view points and everyone is entitled to their own opinion. However if you want to properly debate your position then I would suggest that you tone down the sarcasm. That said anyone who gets their Brazils mixed up with their Monzas is no doubt on a wind-up mission.

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Post by tunes666 on Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:28 am

John wrote:@tunes666 - what rock have you just crawled from under?
now now, hit a nerve? Smile


Myself, CM & SteveG all have similar views, not because we are die hard Hamilton fans but because we are F1 fans who understand the sport and the ongoings on and off the track between the teams for many years. Your quick to state we are completely wrong, yet your knowledge is ridiculously poor and when you state Alonso aided Massa apparently at Brazil instead of Monza (only one month ago) by towing him just emphasises my point. Doh [/quote] And the fact that you are petty enough to call me up on a silly mistake like that emphasizes my point...


If they very much wanted to keep him then why did they insult him with an offer less than JB?
Where is the evidence of this? because I hear by claim its bullsh1t.

On top of that, they are both ex world champs, and have both out pointed each other, so why would it be an insult to offer them the same money which is probably what was offered. Again that Lewis Hamilton rear wing thing.

Hamilton is now driving for Mercedes in 2013.......they did a good job of trying to persuade him to stay didn't they. If they went the extra mile to keep him and offer him what he deserves in line with other top paid drivers in F1 like Alonso & Vettel the he would of stayed.
But one would have to provide evidence that you know how much these people are getting paid?

Acourding to Lewis the offers he had were very similer from both teams

"The deals were very similar, it is more about the challenge for the future"

McLaren under Whitmarsh created an environment that did not sit comfortably with Hamilton for multiple seasons.
Ok, maybe so.

When JB came to the team as Whitmarsh's signing, it urked Hamilton that the team focus and Whitmarsh's in particularly was taken away from him and it ultimately hurt his own chances of succeeding in winning titles as he felt the support of the team was reduced.
Bull. there is no evidence to support this whats so ever. You just cant deal with the fact that Button has been hot on Lewis's heels...

your also forgetting Ron Dennis the F1 Daddy of Lewis is still a executive chairman of McLaren and share holder... As if he is going to sit back while the team boot his boy to the side for Button.

all three of you need to smell the coffee rather than lewis's rear wing.


Hamilton had to endure this uncomfortable and awkward working environment which clearly affected him and was the reasoning why he decided not to rush and renew his contract in the first place. If McLaren had sorted this situation out and cleared the tension within the team and reduced the working demands and advertisment duties that they placed upon Lewis then he may of stayed. These are some of the reasons why the actions of McLaren as a team forced Lewis to his decision.
Wrong, Lewis had a poor season because he was reckless, there was nothing wrong with his speed compared to Button... but he made silly decisions. and this year he has had a fair bit of bad luck...

So your claim does not make sense. Maybe he is just not God?

He is leaving because after 6 years of being with a team that have provided a challenging car for 5 of those years, he has one the championship once and has found this season that his team are making allot of mistakes... also last season he grumbled about some of the strategy's..

Also he knows its only a matter of time till Mercedes become strong.

Claiming that McLaren wanted him out is baseless speculation.

Your final point stating, 'Whitmarsh is not there to prove he can sign the best drivers, he is there to win races and championships' is also very amusing.

How many constructors titles have McLaren won recently under Whitmarsh? If it wasn't for Hamilton the team would not even of had a recent WDC title.
LOL, funny you should bring up amusing... because you sound ridiculous.

So now Whitmarsh wants to get rid of Lewis in order to uphold Button, because as team leader he is not aware that Lewis improved the team, but in all your knowledge, you are? lol

Maybe Whitmarsh knows full well that Lewis is a great driver and hence why he would have much rather he stayed?

Whitmarsh's relationship with Button played a significant role in the departure of Hamilton. Hamilton is well rid of Whitmarsh and can look forward to working with a geniune world class technical director, a partnership which promises so much in the future of F1
While I think Lewis is a better driver than Button, he is also an ex world champ and deserved to be equal to Lewis... This does not mean Lewis was ruined because of that.

Im not sure when Whitmarsh and Button started this love affair you talk of, and as for if Lewis is better off, Only time will tell Smile

You seem to come out with allot of speculative nonsense.

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Post by tunes666 on Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:32 am

SteveG wrote:
tunes666 wrote:
SteveG wrote:Agree. Mclaren's strive for parity between both their drivers in terms of operations and the development of the car was holding Hamilton back more than it was helping Button. This wasn't going to change under MW so Hami got out. Simples.

Mclaren have now managed to lose TWO of the best drivers in a generation. For a team whose motto is 'only exist to win' that takes some beating!!

People are so lost up Hamilton rear wing its shocking..
Many on here have varying view points and everyone is entitled to their own opinion. However if you want to properly debate your position then I would suggest that you tone down the sarcasm. That said anyone who gets their Brazils mixed up with their Monzas is no doubt on a wind-up mission.

But that was clearly a very irrelevant error that did not involve any knowledge as such other than a little mix up, and the fact two of you have been as petty as to latch onto me saying Brazil rather than Italy, is , well, pretty pathetic really.

And you are correct, many on here have varying view points, including me. And my view is there are actually not views being put forward but claims, and I have simply pointed these claims out to be tosh. And stated the reason is people having Lewis Hamilton Rear wing syndrome.



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Post by tunes666 on Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:38 am

"I am going from a top team, I could have stayed, it would have been very, very easy to stay. They asked me several times over the course of the year to stay." - Lewis Hamilton on leaving McLaren

"The deals were very similar, it is more about the challenge for the future." - Lewis Hamilton on contract offers from McLaren and Mercedes.

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Post by SteveG on Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:15 am

tunes666 wrote:
SteveG wrote:
tunes666 wrote:
SteveG wrote:Agree. Mclaren's strive for parity between both their drivers in terms of operations and the development of the car was holding Hamilton back more than it was helping Button. This wasn't going to change under MW so Hami got out. Simples.

Mclaren have now managed to lose TWO of the best drivers in a generation. For a team whose motto is 'only exist to win' that takes some beating!!

People are so lost up Hamilton rear wing its shocking..
Many on here have varying view points and everyone is entitled to their own opinion. However if you want to properly debate your position then I would suggest that you tone down the sarcasm. That said anyone who gets their Brazils mixed up with their Monzas is no doubt on a wind-up mission.

But that was clearly a very irrelevant error that did not involve any knowledge as such other than a little mix up, and the fact two of you have been as petty as to latch onto me saying Brazil rather than Italy, is , well, pretty pathetic really.

And you are correct, many on here have varying view points, including me. And my view is there are actually not views being put forward but claims, and I have simply pointed these claims out to be tosh. And stated the reason is people having Lewis Hamilton Rear wing syndrome.
Most posts are simply viewpoints in a debate. I don't claim anything as fact unless I supply a link and quite frankly couldnt give a monkeys Whether you agree or disagree. All I'm saying is if you want your 'opinion' to be heard then you need to change the tone otherwise it just gets peoples backs up - the Brazil/Monza mix up being a prime example where such a 'petty' issue only got latched onto because of your condescending replies.

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Post by Critical_mass on Fri Oct 05, 2012 2:24 pm

tunes666 wrote:
Critical_mass wrote:

Laugh What how can you say that, its well known Alonso gets privilages over Massa. As for Monza (i assume you mean, not Brazil) Alonso did suffer with an unfortunately anti roll bar fault. But he didnt even put half an effort into giving Massa a tow.

Who was attacking i was simply giving an opinion on it. I didnt say anything malicious just truthful.

I did not say you were being malicious I was just highlighting you were wrong and that people are quick to come up with the rubbish you did Smile

Again, you are speaking complete garbage when saying it is well known Alonos gets privileges over Massa, complete rubbish. The simple fact is Alonso has been twice as good, and is backed when its clear he is the only one good enough and with enough points to challenge. Its strongly rumored that Vettel will be joining him in 2014, you think he is going to be a no2 driver?

And Again you are wrong about him not giving him a tow, when anyone who watched Quali saw it and heard the commentator highlight the team ethic that Alonso showed.

"Brazilian Felipe Massa, strongly assisted by his Ferrari team-mate Spaniard Fernando Alonso, was third fastest ahead of Briton Paul Di Resta of Force India"

"Massa was soon out again to set the pace for the scarlet scuderia with Alonso giving him a tow as the track temperature hit 40 before Hamilton went top with a lap in 1:24.010."

http://tensport.com.au/news/newsarticles/Motor-Racing-Hamilton-on-pole-at-Monza-Webber-11th.htm

Just because you dont agree with me doesnt make me "wrong". You've jsut said yourself that Alonso is backed more because he is twice as good. So you agree he has privilages!

Also the Brundle said at the time that Alonso didnt really help Massa, sort of half a55ed attempt to "tow" Massa. We all KNOW what they were trying to do, but Alonso didnt give much of a tow at all.

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Post by tunes666 on Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:31 pm

Well then if he get privalages due to having much more points then your point was moot, .. If massa cant get on the podium while alsono is ghere most races then of course he will be favoured.. You dont think Lewis got better treatment when Kovalinen was there lagging behind?

Opinions and claims are two separate things..

Like the chap who denied Alonso towing Massa after his failed lap.. That is not opinion thats denying a fact which invites condescending replys


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Post by GSC on Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:02 pm

The point was that Hamilton wanted those benefits that come from being the #1 with a clear #2, rather than the situation at McLaren which ended with 2 1.5s.
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Post by Critical_mass on Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:05 pm

Course Lewis did and i never mentioned points and neither did you. So dont try bring points into it. NOW he has more points because he has been the better driver.

It IS well known Alonso gets better treatment than Massa. If you dont think so then youre in denial.

Who's denying alonso didnt try give massa a tow... he DID, but it was such a pathetic half a55ed attempt to assist that it didnt make much difference. I feel massa got to where he did on his own merit. He did well in qualifying in Monza.

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Post by Belgarion of Riva on Sat Oct 06, 2012 5:12 am

tunes

McLaren initially offered Hamilton a pay cut, lower than Button. They upped their offer when they found out Mercedes were sniffing around.

That's a really odd way to keep someone in a team. Hey you, you are the only person to win us a world championship since Hakkinen but you are going to be paid less than the slower driver. Okay, deal with it.

If I was Hamilton, I would have told them where to go a long time ago.

On a separate note if you think Whitmarsh doesn't like BUtton more than Hamilton, you need your head examined. Whitmarsh was in tears when Button won his blown diffuser championship whilst criticising Hamilton for not being mature. What a team manager.

Look at the way they celebrated in Canada. They were both so happy together but something happened since that race and if I owned Mclaren, Whitmarsh would be sacked.

Getting rid of your most valuable asset is idiotic. Heads should roll for that

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Post by tunes666 on Sat Oct 06, 2012 11:50 am

Critical_mass wrote:Course Lewis did and i never mentioned points and neither did you. So dont try bring points into it. NOW he has more points because he has been the better driver.
So now how many points a driver wins is not relevant to how valuable they are?

It IS well known Alonso gets better treatment than Massa. If you dont think so then youre in denial.
Among people who cant stomach Alonos winning maybe.

Its well known Alonos gets better treatment? How so?, because 3 years ago while Massa let Alonso pass whole Alonos was the only one with a realistic shout of catching up for the title? .. yeah right.

Better treatment is simply bullsh1t... he is just BETTER full stop. If you are about 100 points better off and the other guy cant even make a podium then of course the team will focus on you more. Thats common sense and would be the case with every single team.You guys try to imply that the reason he is doing so well is BECAUSE he gets better treatment... which is not the case.

it is only at this stage in the season Massa has been trying new parts for Alonso, but this was not the case at the start when they were both at the same start line, in the same car. Massa has been finished since his accident, simple as that.

Who's denying alonso didnt try give massa a tow... he DID, but it was such a pathetic half a55ed attempt to assist that it didnt make much difference. I feel massa got to where he did on his own merit. He did well in qualifying in Monza.

And my point that people cant give credit where its due, while he was quick enough for pole, but only made 10th but still remembered to push Massa along, (which did help him as other teams where trying it also) showed great team ethic. Even if it did not help Massa it was still an effort to help him.




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Post by Guest on Sat Oct 06, 2012 11:54 am

I really don't see the point of your argument or what it will prove.

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Post by tunes666 on Sat Oct 06, 2012 12:10 pm

Belgarion of Riva wrote:tunes

McLaren initially offered Hamilton a pay cut, lower than Button. They upped their offer when they found out Mercedes were sniffing around.

That's a really odd way to keep someone in a team. Hey you, you are the only person to win us a world championship since Hakkinen but you are going to be paid less than the slower driver. Okay, deal with it.
First of all I have seen no evidence he actually was offered a smaller contract than Button had.

But if that was the case then its quite normal as Button finished about 80 points ahead of Lewis... and its quite reasonable that they offered Button a better deal to reward his high points rate. Lewis did have bad luck, but also cocked up more than button and Button is also an ex world champion which you cant just remove from his CV.

If Lewis was offered a better deal than Button after Button had out pointed him, you think this would have been more fare? How would that have looked to Button?

I rate Lewis as the better driver, but its a results business.

If I was Hamilton, I would have told them where to go a long time ago.
You mean the team who pumped millions into him through his development and then put him in the fastest car on the track with equal treatment to a two time current world champion, in his first ever drive in F1?.. and then give him a competitive car for %90 of his time there? .... of course, he should have told them where to go Rolling Eyes

On a separate note if you think Whitmarsh doesn't like BUtton more than Hamilton, you need your head examined. Whitmarsh was in tears when Button won his blown diffuser championship whilst criticising Hamilton for not being mature. What a team manager.
And?, maybe its becausee Hamilton is a little brat?, do you know him personally. But to pretend Button gets the better treatment within the team is bull. And Lewis has been imature on and off the track in the last couple seasons..

"Is it because im black?"....
Posting secret data on twitter as an excuse for being slower than Button one race..
silly impatient and naive moves on the track..

The guy is not perfect mate. and while I think he is a better driver than Button they have been pretty 50/50 in terms of being competitive over all and thus its no shock they are on 50/50 treatment.

This was not the case with Kovalinen... but it is with Button.

And I will be curious to see how he compete with Rosberg as well.

Look at the way they celebrated in Canada. They were both so happy together but something happened since that race and if I owned Mclaren, Whitmarsh would be sacked.

Spoiler:
Mercedes now have best F1 driver in Lewis Hamilton Martin-Whitmarsh-Lewis-Hamilton-McLaren_2778994

Spoiler:
Mercedes now have best F1 driver in Lewis Hamilton 11137

Getting rid of your most valuable asset is idiotic. Heads should roll for that
I agree, but the man is never bigger than the team.

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Post by Critical_mass on Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:19 pm

tunes666 wrote:
Critical_mass wrote:Course Lewis did and i never mentioned points and neither did you. So dont try bring points into it. NOW he has more points because he has been the better driver.
So now how many points a driver wins is not relevant to how valuable they are?

You keep putting words in my mouth. THey are important, but stop being blinded and realise Alonso is treated better, he has been for a few seasons now Rolling Eyes

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Post by Belgarion of Riva on Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:01 pm

Fernando Alonso says Lewis Hamilton has made the right choice in leaving McLaren for Mercedes next year.

The Ferrari driver said McLaren, for whom he drove in 2007, have not been as successful as they would have liked.

He said: "For Lewis, it is good to move on. From McLaren, [Alain] Prost was going out, [Ayrton] Senna, me, normally for a better life, a good change.

"McLaren is 14 years without winning a constructors' championship, most of these sometimes with the best car."

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Post by Fernando on Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:03 pm

Belgarion of Riva wrote: Fernando Alonso says Lewis Hamilton has made the right choice in leaving McLaren for Mercedes next year.

The Ferrari driver said McLaren, for whom he drove in 2007, have not been as successful as they would have liked.

He said: "For Lewis, it is good to move on. From McLaren, [Alain] Prost was going out, [Ayrton] Senna, me, normally for a better life, a good change.

"McLaren is 14 years without winning a constructors' championship, most of these sometimes with the best car."

Now why do we think he is saying this?

A) He actually means it
or
B) He's thinks now he has seen the last of him until 2014

im suspecting B Whistle

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Post by harryspiv on Sun Oct 07, 2012 9:12 am

Fernando wrote:
Belgarion of Riva wrote: Fernando Alonso says Lewis Hamilton has made the right choice in leaving McLaren for Mercedes next year.

The Ferrari driver said McLaren, for whom he drove in 2007, have not been as successful as they would have liked.

He said: "For Lewis, it is good to move on. From McLaren, [Alain] Prost was going out, [Ayrton] Senna, me, normally for a better life, a good change.

"McLaren is 14 years without winning a constructors' championship, most of these sometimes with the best car."

Now why do we think he is saying this?

A) He actually means it
or
B) He's thinks now he has seen the last of him until 2014

im suspecting B Whistle

I wouldn't be surprised if Alonso was right, if a 7 time world champ can't develop the car over 3 seasons with the same guy whom he spent his career at Ferrari with, what hope does Lewis have? If anything Mercedes have gone backwards and my prediction is that Hamilton will not be challenging for the title at Mercedes.

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Post by Belgarion of Riva on Sun Oct 07, 2012 10:56 am

I'm leaning towards B myself Fernando

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Post by Belgarion of Riva on Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:00 am

GSC wrote:The point was that Hamilton wanted those benefits that come from being the #1 with a clear #2, rather than the situation at McLaren which ended with 2 1.5s.

That's been debunked by Ross Brawn. He said Hamilton wanted parity and not preference over the other driver. The reason why Mclaren have failed is not because they support both drivers equally, it's because they provide the slower driver with more support than the quicker one.

A noble approach but what happens is that they are focussed on making the slow guy fast that they do not pay as much attention to making the fast guy faster.

That's where they have failed. Now they've got both Perez and Button who have similar driving styles and who will never put the car on pole consistently, so they will have to develop a car that needs strategy to work. The sad thing however is that they aren't good at strategy as well.

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Post by SteveG on Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:46 pm

harryspiv wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if Alonso was right, if a 7 time world champ can't develop the car over 3 seasons with the same guy whom he spent his career at Ferrari with, what hope does Lewis have? If anything Mercedes have gone backwards and my prediction is that Hamilton will not be challenging for the title at Mercedes.
Schumi basically went to a greenfield site with a small capacity and has probably already contributed a large amount of spadework. Since then it seems that Merc have re-assessed where they want to be and have been seriously ramping up staff no more so than their landing of one of the best drivers in the business. If Ross Brawn now has the tools for the job (and that includes Hamilton himself) then it may yet come good.

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Post by dyrewolfe on Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:33 pm

SteveG wrote:
harryspiv wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if Alonso was right, if a 7 time world champ can't develop the car over 3 seasons with the same guy whom he spent his career at Ferrari with, what hope does Lewis have? If anything Mercedes have gone backwards and my prediction is that Hamilton will not be challenging for the title at Mercedes.
Schumi basically went to a greenfield site with a small capacity and has probably already contributed a large amount of spadework. Since then it seems that Merc have re-assessed where they want to be and have been seriously ramping up staff no more so than their landing of one of the best drivers in the business. If Ross Brawn now has the tools for the job (and that includes Hamilton himself) then it may yet come good.

Are you calling Lewis Hamilton a tool? How very dare you, sir! Wink
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Post by dyrewolfe on Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:49 pm

Anyway, back on topic, I think its impossible to tell exactly what Lewis has landed himself in.

After all Ross Brawn was able to take a dog of a Honda and turn it into a championship winner. Granted a lot of the development work had been done by the time he arrived, but they still had to redesign the back end at the last minute, so they could fit a new engine in.

Yet, for the last 3 years, largely the same team (barring a few high-profile personnel changes), plus a 7-time world champion have struggled to get successive cars to be anything more than regular top 10 finishers (plus 1 race win).

We do know from recent seasons that Lewis struggles with uncompetitive cars. While he will take a car by the scruff and throw it round a circuit, it doesn't usually yield better results.

I'd love nothing more than to see Lewis transform Mercedes into regular race winners and real title contenders, but I'll reserve judgement until first practice of the first race of next season (is it still Australia?)
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