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Post by PaulHv2 on Sat Oct 13, 2012 10:25 pm

This seems to be at the forefront of everybodies thoughts at the moment, even FIFA are chipping in, saying that the actions of Suarez are a cancer within the game. Personally that member of FIFA is a complete clown to mention anyone player but that's a different issue.

Why has this all of a sudden become such a huge issue? Barcelona have been doing this for four or five years. One that really sticks in my mind is Busquets going down holding his face, and then has a peak to see if the player has been sent off. Nobody was outraged over that as they are now. When Eduardo went down with no contact and UEFA suspended him fans said UEFA where wrong, and excused his actions due to a previous injury, UEFA eventually backed down and didn't suspend him.

So, what's changed to get fans so angry?
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Post by Crimey on Sun Oct 14, 2012 12:23 am

One reason I think there is a lot more anger about diving is the fact that FIFA have conceded in the debate for goalline technology and it will probably be in place in the Premier League by next year and at the World Cup.

The next big issue was diving, so it's being targeted.

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Post by azania on Sun Oct 14, 2012 5:04 am

I like it how mainly foreign players get the blame when we have Gareth Bale who should get a gold medal were it an Olympic sport. Also that idiot Townsend said yesterday that Welbeck was "cute" in winning that penalty. Had t been a foreign player he would get lambasted. ITV analysts and Mark Lawrensen are absolute jokers.

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Post by CFCNick on Sun Oct 14, 2012 7:10 am

Gareth Bale is foreign. He's Welsh.

On a serious note I can't stand diving. When I see my team do it and my friends call me out on it I just smile because even if it helps my team win a trophy I know there's nothing I can say to defend their actions.

For a serious change to be made by FIFA and/or UEFA we'll need either the World Cup final or EURO final to be decided by a penalty that was given because of a player diving.

As for Andy Townsend, I had several foul worded comments about he and Tyldesley's utter biased commentary. Especially after the Walcott incident where the keeper had every right and did well, if Joe Hart did they'd say the other team's forward should get up and call for him to be booked for diving.

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Post by Josiah Maiestas on Thu Oct 18, 2012 8:38 pm

I completely support Suarez in the bitter battles he's been having with the British media who are obsessed with making stories out of him when he's just trying his best for his club. The media will not say anything about Bale, Ashley Young, Rooney and their diving. Diving is a yellow card caution and not a ban no matter how much the media or Tony Pulis want it ti happen, moaning about diving just to hide the fact they have horrible tacklers in their team.
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Post by spencerclarke on Sun Oct 28, 2012 8:30 pm

Completely support? No diving at all from him then? Saying there is a bit of a witch hunt or that he is getting all the blame I could understand. But am I right in thinking you believe he is completely innocent?

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Post by CFCNick on Sun Oct 28, 2012 10:19 pm

We can add Vermaelen to the list of divers after yesterday's performance. Arsenal got very lucky. Offside goal too.

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Post by Lumbering_Jack on Mon Oct 29, 2012 10:04 am

Another weekend and another round of shameful play acting. Torres was thankfully booked for his blatant simulation, but Vermalen should be ashamed of himself. Rolling around like an 8 year old girl, I'd be surprised if his mrs could look him in the eye, disgrace. Other than that, more of the same, countless players falling over with minimal contact. It has got to the point now where I am a fan of my team (through misguided loyalties), rather than a fan of football because of the woofta's on display.

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Post by socal1976 on Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:07 pm

Its funny you think the torres action was a justified card and Vermalean unjustified, I guess I see it the opposite way. A player should still be able to legally avoid a challenge and go down without being booked for preserving his own body. In football as a forward you better be good at it and avoid some 50/50 balls and rough tackles by jumping away from contact.

As for the vermalaen red card the guy kicked well after the whistle in plain site of everyone, should we now allow little kicks and fight start smacks several seconds after the whistle. That stuff starts fights and results even more rash challenges. That was a clear red in my book regardless of vermalean making a meal of it, I admit he did ham it up, but it was a red card offense and his opponent shouldn't have been fool enough to do it.

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Post by Stella on Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:47 pm

What about Phil Neville?
If Suarez had gone down like that he would have been slaughtered but Neville does and the pundits have a laugh about it.
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Post by nasisillmatic on Mon Oct 29, 2012 9:13 pm

Stella wrote:What about Phil Neville?
If Suarez had gone down like that he would have been slaughtered but Neville does and the pundits have a laugh about it.

Because he apologised it makes it ok apparantly.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Mon Oct 29, 2012 11:29 pm

I think the problem is not just on the pitch ....its the potential affect its having OFF it.

Whilst i admit Rugby is my first sport...im still an avid Newcaslte fan...with most of my mates die hard football and Newcastle fans.

Some of them have actually said they have lost their love for the game as its not the game it used to be and have let their season tickets go...whilst others are losing their love for the game because of the play acting...ballet style behaviour....playacting...unsportmanlike conduct...etc...and its not just foreigners...its all nationalities.

Now if more and more people start talking by walking...and not paying the money for sky...tickets etc...then there becomes a problem...


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Post by sirfredperry on Tue Oct 30, 2012 12:54 am

Torres may have been unlucky. But if booking players for diving - not always any easy thing to adjudicate on - encourages more players to try to stay on their feet, so much the better.
Some times, particularly when a player is in full flight, a foul will lead to a headlong plunge. But far too often we see players going, theatrically, to ground, after the merest nudge.
Some players look to go down all the time. Early in his career Cristiano Ronaldo was in this category. Arjen Robben has always been a serial diver and practically every team has their diving villains.
Fans get a bit one-eyed about all this. Their man is tripped but the opposition guy has taken a dive, is the view of some.
I'm a Spurs fan but I will accept that Bale dives, Robbie Keane used to dive and Ginola - a great entertainer - would flop to the ground on a regular basis.
The whole debate would be healthier if fans came clean about their own side's transgressors and also to accept that refs have a tough time trying to spot the divers.

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Post by John Cregan on Tue Oct 30, 2012 1:09 am

Technology
Technology
Technology

If FIFA/UEFA/FA want to stop cheating, then Video technology needs to be available to referees for penalties/simulation/prof fouls etc..........

The penny will then drop with players that the HAVE TO play fair..............

No point in FIFA/UEFA/FA discussing this when their reticence in having technology available is THE BIGGEST PROBLEM IN THE GAME.

Players will cheat if the cheating pays off.............

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Post by kwinigolfer on Tue Oct 30, 2012 1:28 am

Beats me why Clattenberg didn't just allow play to continue if he'd already made the judgment that Evans hadn't fouled Torres.
Torres would have been out of the play and Man U would have had the advantage.

It's a sad commentary when a fall has to be because of a dive or a trip. Some dives will never be detected.

Equally, if a ref feels like a player is a serial diver, then just don't give him anything. Don't stop play when players these same players go down, apparently with an injury, just to either con the ref, or to break up play.

Tosspots like Suarez (very lucky not to get booked for a stamp towards the end of the first half, then his yellow - which could've been a red - would have been the end of him anyway. Dirty sod.) and Drogba would soon get the message, or at least their managers would.

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Post by PaulHv2 on Tue Oct 30, 2012 1:53 am

kwinigolfer wrote:Beats me why Clattenberg didn't just allow play to continue if he'd already made the judgment that Evans hadn't fouled Torres.
Torres would have been out of the play and Man U would have had the advantage.

It's a sad commentary when a fall has to be because of a dive or a trip. Some dives will never be detected.

Equally, if a ref feels like a player is a serial diver, then just don't give him anything. Don't stop play when players these same players go down, apparently with an injury, just to either con the ref, or to break up play.

Tosspots like Suarez (very lucky not to get booked for a stamp towards the end of the first half, then his yellow - which could've been a red - would have been the end of him anyway. Dirty sod.) and Drogba would soon get the message, or at least their managers would.


See it's things like this that make me think certain footballers are picked on more than others. Suarez for all his faults, actually either waits for contact and goes down or is quick enough to move at the last second and usually by having to move in such a quick and awkard way does what every player does and goes down. Drogba was the same, waited for the contact before going down, he played the game that everyone plays.

Regarding not stopping play when a player is down, what a completely stupid idea. What if that player is actually seriously injured? What if the delay in getting him treatment causes more complications and ends the players career? If that happened you can bet your life the player would take legal action against the official.

Regarding Suarez's stamp, the only foul Suarez gave away was a silly challenge on Distan, I watched the whole game and don't remember any stamp but I do remember Fellanni kicking Sterling while on the ground, and then booting Allen in the chest while he was on the ground but nobody has mentioned these incidents. Why? Because it wasn't a player that fans love to moan about so it doesn't get looked at.
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Post by TopHat24/7 on Tue Oct 30, 2012 2:07 am

Josiah Maiestas wrote:I completely support Suarez in the bitter battles he's been having with the British media who are obsessed with making stories out of him when he's just trying his best for his club. The media will not say anything about Bale, Ashley Young, Rooney and their diving. Diving is a yellow card caution and not a ban no matter how much the media or Tony Pulis want it ti happen, moaning about diving just to hide the fact they have horrible tacklers in their team.

Since when did biting a player on the head or calling an opponent a 'little black man' consitute trying his best for his club??

And Bale and Young get slated plenty.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Tue Oct 30, 2012 2:11 am

hampo171 wrote:
kwinigolfer wrote:Beats me why Clattenberg didn't just allow play to continue if he'd already made the judgment that Evans hadn't fouled Torres.
Torres would have been out of the play and Man U would have had the advantage.

It's a sad commentary when a fall has to be because of a dive or a trip. Some dives will never be detected.

Equally, if a ref feels like a player is a serial diver, then just don't give him anything. Don't stop play when players these same players go down, apparently with an injury, just to either con the ref, or to break up play.

Tosspots like Suarez (very lucky not to get booked for a stamp towards the end of the first half, then his yellow - which could've been a red - would have been the end of him anyway. Dirty sod.) and Drogba would soon get the message, or at least their managers would.


See it's things like this that make me think certain footballers are picked on more than others. Suarez for all his faults, actually either waits for contact and goes down or is quick enough to move at the last second and usually by having to move in such a quick and awkard way does what every player does and goes down. Drogba was the same, waited for the contact before going down, he played the game that everyone plays.

Sorry Hampo, but that's ridiculously excusist. Suarez, whilst very talented, is an otherwise repulsive footballer. It wasn't picking on him when he bit an opponents head and he wasn't waiting for contact the other week when he threw himself on the floor in easily the single most ridiculous dive I've seen since that Pires one about 10 yrs ago!

Wonderfully shown here: http://www.whoateallthepies.tv/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/suarez.gif

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Post by John Cregan on Tue Oct 30, 2012 2:13 am

There are plenty of cheats and downright dirty/nasty players in the game and they will always be there as long as they have a chance of conning referees.............sorry to banging on about this but unless referees are able to call on video replays then this is a waste of time

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Post by John Cregan on Tue Oct 30, 2012 2:15 am

Have to agree with Top Hat........Suarez is a disgrace. I have others on my hitlist too..........Balotelli, Fellani, Luiz......3 other seriously nasty characters

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Post by Ent on Tue Oct 30, 2012 2:22 am

It's apologist zealots who allow it to continue - Suarez wouldn't be at it if daglish, Rodgers and the Liverpool fans didn't excuse him.

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Post by PaulHv2 on Tue Oct 30, 2012 2:26 am

TopHat24/7 wrote:
hampo171 wrote:
kwinigolfer wrote:Beats me why Clattenberg didn't just allow play to continue if he'd already made the judgment that Evans hadn't fouled Torres.
Torres would have been out of the play and Man U would have had the advantage.

It's a sad commentary when a fall has to be because of a dive or a trip. Some dives will never be detected.

Equally, if a ref feels like a player is a serial diver, then just don't give him anything. Don't stop play when players these same players go down, apparently with an injury, just to either con the ref, or to break up play.

Tosspots like Suarez (very lucky not to get booked for a stamp towards the end of the first half, then his yellow - which could've been a red - would have been the end of him anyway. Dirty sod.) and Drogba would soon get the message, or at least their managers would.


See it's things like this that make me think certain footballers are picked on more than others. Suarez for all his faults, actually either waits for contact and goes down or is quick enough to move at the last second and usually by having to move in such a quick and awkard way does what every player does and goes down. Drogba was the same, waited for the contact before going down, he played the game that everyone plays.

Sorry Hampo, but that's ridiculously excusist. Suarez, whilst very talented, is an otherwise repulsive footballer. It wasn't picking on him when he bit an opponents head and he wasn't waiting for contact the other week when he threw himself on the floor in easily the single most ridiculous dive I've seen since that Pires one about 10 yrs ago!

Wonderfully shown here: http://www.whoateallthepies.tv/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/suarez.gif

Sorry TH but the part about Suarez is more about the apparent Stamp, not so much is play acting. As I said I can't remember a stamp or remember the commentator alluding to one either.
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Post by TopHat24/7 on Tue Oct 30, 2012 2:39 am

My point was your suggestion that Suarez is unfairly picked on. He's made his bed and now he has to lie on it.

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Post by Lumbering_Jack on Tue Oct 30, 2012 2:42 am

Suarez waits for contact bla bla bla...

Well that makes it alright then. I suppose he gets knocked over when his does his weekly shop in asda with the argy bargy in the isles...

Cheating is cheating, the contact in a lot of cases is irrelevant. Man up, its a contact sport.

Reminds me of the Drogba-Lehman fiasco a few years ago. Their was contact, did they have the right to throw themselves onto the floor.

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Post by kwinigolfer on Tue Oct 30, 2012 2:43 am

hampo,
I too watched the whole game, though only from my armchair.
Not sure who the Everton player was, might have been Mirallas. Perhaps "stamp" is the incorrect word in the traditional sense, but he put in a clearly late challenge towards the end of the first half with his leading foot clearly stamping down on the Everton player's standing foot. Our commentators, probably different from yours, definitely spotted it and it was replayed on ESPN a couple of times, much tut-tutting from the booth about a card not waved.

And I agree that Fellaini walks a very fine line . . . . . Luiz steps over it and Ballotelli's rightful place is out of the game.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Tue Oct 30, 2012 2:56 am

kwinigolfer wrote:hampo,
I too watched the whole game, though only from my armchair.
Not sure who the Everton player was, might have been Mirallas. Perhaps "stamp" is the incorrect word in the traditional sense, but he put in a clearly late challenge towards the end of the first half with his leading foot clearly stamping down on the Everton player's standing foot. Our commentators, probably different from yours, definitely spotted it and it was replayed on ESPN a couple of times, much tut-tutting from the booth about a card not waved.

Now I remember that also! Very dirty and cynical. Scraped right down his calf and ankle. You could tell it was deliberate as there was 0% chance he was ever going to be able to get the ball so it wasn't a challenge but you could see by the way his stride extended and foot/leg came down that it was not part of the rythm of his step that just 'accidentally' caught the Everton player.

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Post by compelling and rich on Tue Oct 30, 2012 8:09 am

see alot of people keep moaning about diving and that something needs to be done about it, yet the first time a ref who tries to make a stand against it gets one wrong he's crucified. im afraid the only way we are going to stop it without retrospective bans (with the fa dont hold your breath on that one) is for the ref to stop awarding free kicks for players throwing themselves on the floor and players who totally over exaggerate the smallest of touches and yellow card them if you think they have done it, and to do this the refs need to be backed because its a very very difficult one to judge in real time. they may well get a few wrong but they are only human and mistakes are all part of the game

eventually players will start learning that they are not getting away with it and costing their team with all the yellow cards, alot of people laughed at the respect campaign when they tackled down swearing and having a go at refs. now though imo you see alot less of ref badgering and swearing at the refs when it used to be rife

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Post by azania on Tue Oct 30, 2012 8:14 am

Suarez's bed was made in the world cup when he saved a certain goal and the Ghana chap missed the subsequent penalty. Had that pen been scored, Suarez would not be getting the same level of abuse he does now.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Tue Oct 30, 2012 8:12 pm

He could have further helped his case with not biting players heads, stamping on them, saying racist things or being the worst and most regular diver to have ever graced the Prem.

People have short memories, if he'd gone on to be a model EPL footballer people would've largely forgotten about that WC incident but he hasn't, preferring rather to remind us regularly as to why we all hate him so much.

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Post by azania on Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:24 am

I just think people want a bogey man to throw some verbals at. I wonder if JT will get the same treatment as he is equally bad with some of his antics.

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Post by John Cregan on Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:08 am

In fairness to Suarez's handballing at the World Cup. What he did was perfectly justified, it was the last minute and he recieved the appropriate punishment ie sent off and 1 game ban and penalty to Ghana.

His actions contributed to Uruguay reaching the semis. There was no "cheating" in that incident. He wasn't trying to "con" the ref. He did it in the full knowledge that it would be seen.

That cannot be compared to his cheating against Stoke and other instances......

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Post by azania on Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:12 am

Imagine if an English player had done that in the world cup finals and England went on to win the game. He would be a hero.

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Post by John Cregan on Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:18 am

azania wrote:Imagine if an English player had done that in the world cup finals and England went on to win the game. He would be a hero.

Good point. If the football authorities were so abhored by it, they should introduce a rule simitar to the "penalty try" in rugby.

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Post by Atila on Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:49 pm

Stella wrote:What about Phil Neville?
If Suarez had gone down like that he would have been slaughtered but Neville does and the pundits have a laugh about it.
The difference is Neville is English and Suarez is not. Whistle

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Post by Lumbering_Jack on Sat Nov 03, 2012 10:37 am

Neville is not a repeat offender. Young comes in for lots of stick for being a disgraceful cheat, rightly so.

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Post by Lumbering_Jack on Sat Nov 03, 2012 10:43 am

Neville is not a repeat offender. Young comes in for lots of stick for being a disgraceful cheat, rightly so.

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Post by Lumbering_Jack on Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:02 am

Shameful again by Suarez. Going down like some has just sledge hammered him yelping in pain. Disgrace.

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Post by PaulHv2 on Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:15 am

Same as Ba and Cisse which you fail to mention or are you just ignoring them? Only time Suarez has gone down like that is from a knee in the lower back which is quite painful.
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Post by GeordieFalcon on Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:45 am

Suarez is a joke...he s not the only one...but that was a joke...who shot him....

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Post by PaulHv2 on Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:45 am

You're not talking about the red card surely? Could have broken his leg.
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Post by GeordieFalcon on Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:50 am

No he couldn't because he pulled out....he's not malicious.....

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Post by PaulHv2 on Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:51 am

The intent was to go in late, studs up knee high. That is a red card and he was stupid to make the challenge, if a player from another team makes that challenge you're screaming for a red card. Take the black and white specs off.
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Post by GeordieFalcon on Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:54 am

Whatever.....I'm a very honest fan....if it was the other way round as I have done in the past I would say it wasn't a red. I'm a rugby man....and football is becoming a joke...

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Post by Lumbering_Jack on Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:00 am

Honestly, liverpools blind defence is admirable if a little misguided. Stud wee up, he pulled out and hit him with his thigh. Are you honestly saying a grown man reacts that way, rolling in pain? Bunch if mincers.

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Post by PaulHv2 on Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:01 am

I would say rewatch the incident even a neutral is saying your wrong but you keep denying it.
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Post by Lumbering_Jack on Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:03 am

Was his pain genuine. What caused that pain?

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Post by PaulHv2 on Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:04 am

What does that matter it was a red card.
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Post by Lumbering_Jack on Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:10 am

Of course it is relevant. To suggest otherwise is moronic. He rolled around on the floor to draw a card.

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Post by PaulHv2 on Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:12 am

Even Pardew has said it was a stupid challenge. Refs given it for serious foul play and its a great decision. Pain has no relation to the card, the linesman said instantly to show the red card.
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Post by Lumbering_Jack on Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:17 am

Why did Suarez roll around on the floor. Simple enough question. Of course you won't answer because their is only 1 answer.

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