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Englands AI Team Based on European 1st Round

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niwatts
DaveM
glamorganalun
Chjw131
Poorfour
lostinwales
majesticimperialman
hugehandoff
HammerofThunor
Biltong
EnglishReign
maestegmafia
beshocked
Effervescing Elephant
Geordie
Triangulation
yappysnap
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Post by yappysnap Mon 15 Oct 2012, 9:32 am

First topic message reminder :

With no preamble:

1. Marler
2. Hartley
3. Cole
4. Lawes
5. Botha
6. Johnson
7. Robshaw
8. Easter
9. Care
10. Botica
11. Monye
12. Twelvetrees
13. Tomkins
14. Ashton
15. Arscott

So there we go, my Heineken Cup England team based on the weekends games.


Last edited by yappysnap on Mon 15 Oct 2012, 1:57 pm; edited 1 time in total

yappysnap

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Post by niwatts Sun 21 Oct 2012, 3:43 pm

Hood83 wrote:We do need a player who is regularly getting over the gainline, it might be Garvey, it might be Fearns or Vunipola in the back-row, but it won't be Palmer or Lawes. We need to find a player who can offer that sooner rather than later.

I don't agree that Garvey is a bigger carrier than Lawes, and the stats would seem to concur. So far this season Garvey had made 26 metres in 21 carries and Lawes has made 33 metres in 16 carries.


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Post by Hood83 Sun 21 Oct 2012, 5:21 pm

niwatts wrote:
Hood83 wrote:We do need a player who is regularly getting over the gainline, it might be Garvey, it might be Fearns or Vunipola in the back-row, but it won't be Palmer or Lawes. We need to find a player who can offer that sooner rather than later.

I don't agree that Garvey is a bigger carrier than Lawes, and the stats would seem to concur. So far this season Garvey had made 26 metres in 21 carries and Lawes has made 33 metres in 16 carries.


Damn you and your statistics and facts! I think Garvey is a better carrier in traffic. He hasn't looked great this season but then nor have LI. He did get MOTM recently though and looked to be getting through a lot of work. His carrying looked below par but still, in my opinion, better than Lawes, who still carries far too upright.

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Post by niwatts Sun 21 Oct 2012, 6:04 pm

I've liked what I've seen from Garvey in the past, he's a gritty lock that brings nice attributes to the pack, I just don't think it's useful to attribute players with aspects of play they don't noticeably regularly show, it sets them up for a fall. Far better to concentrate on what he more demonstrably brings.

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Post by Geordie Sun 21 Oct 2012, 9:01 pm

Hard carrying is essential from the pack....
Is Lawes carrying top class...no. He does carry...and certainly makes ground....but not like an Alberts or such...
Lawes does offer so much every where else however....which is why he must start. And his lineout is improving beyond question....though not a lineout leader...
The question then however is how else do you set up your pack.

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Post by wasps Mon 22 Oct 2012, 9:48 am


The thing to realise is that carrying and balance can be generated by a good, winning team.
It's a case of making the team into a winning team in the first place.

If you look around the top nations in the world and look at their partnerships now (Locks, half backs, centres etc) everyone will agree that there is good 'balance'.
However, a lot of the time, I doubt that balance has been there from the start.

Nonu adds good balance to the NZ midfield, but he's a much more accomplished player than he was when he first broke into the team.
The difference is that top quality players can alter their style slightly to accomodate the team with losing their key skills.

Unfortunately, this generally only comes with game time together, and is a lot easier to develop if you're already playing in a good, winning team.

Lawes and Launchbury could be a 2nd row pairing with great balance in time, if they play together enough.
However, if they only get a few games here and there together, you'll probably find that they struggle to hit it off, and end up trying to work indivudally, rather than as a unit.

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Post by sickofwendy Mon 22 Oct 2012, 9:58 am

Bit unfair to compare lawes carrying to alberts.

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Post by Geordie Mon 22 Oct 2012, 11:02 am

Yes it was...but i just used that to highlight in the extreme what i mean...the difference between carriers and the worlds best carriers....

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Post by sickofwendy Mon 22 Oct 2012, 12:02 pm

Ok,not looking to p155 you off,just saying compare him to other 4's.

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Post by Geordie Mon 22 Oct 2012, 12:24 pm

You didnt p me off dont worry Hug


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Post by sickofwendy Mon 22 Oct 2012, 1:42 pm

thumbsup

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Post by gregortree Mon 22 Oct 2012, 1:47 pm

Into the AI squad ?

"Flanker Steffon Armitage's form justifies a place in head coach Stuart Lancaster's England squad, according to Toulon team-mate Jonny Wilkinson. "


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Post by Chjw131 Mon 22 Oct 2012, 5:01 pm

Alas it's too late for Armitage I feel. What we need to be asking is not whether Armitage should be in the squad, but what back-rower deserves to be kicked out as a result?

Frankly only Dowson merits demotion in my view and i'd be calling Haskell up in his place straight away. Robshaw has done superbly, Wood will be a truly top back-rower, Croft is utterly unique. Waldrom and Morgan certainly need development, but as Steffon is not an 8 I don't think you can consider them. Fearns is the other player i'd call up ahead of him.

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Post by sickofwendy Mon 22 Oct 2012, 5:06 pm

Couldn't agree more with that.If he wanted to play for England he would come back to the jeff.I think he has the hump over the way he was bombed out for hendre fourie.well you would be wouldn't you!!!

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Post by DaveM Mon 22 Oct 2012, 11:31 pm

So, I reckon SL will be loking to play a side in the second test along the lines of:

Goode, Ashton, JJ, Barritt, Tuilagi, Flood, Care, Marler, Hartley, Cole, Lawes, Palmer/Parling, Johnson, Robshaw, Morgan.

Tuilagi and JJ may swap.

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Post by Geordie Tue 23 Oct 2012, 11:32 am

Chjw131 wrote:Alas it's too late for Armitage I feel. What we need to be asking is not whether Armitage should be in the squad, but what back-rower deserves to be kicked out as a result?

Frankly only Dowson merits demotion in my view and i'd be calling Haskell up in his place straight away. Robshaw has done superbly, Wood will be a truly top back-rower, Croft is utterly unique. Waldrom and Morgan certainly need development, but as Steffon is not an 8 I don't think you can consider them. Fearns is the other player i'd call up ahead of him.

Waldrom is beyond development...hes nearly 30 isnt he....

Fearns MUST be brought in to the squad....and at least make the bench.

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