Elitist and non elitist sports

First topic message reminder :

After the discussion this week of what people thought was the most challenging sport when it comes to burn out, I thought that I would start a thread about elitism in sport.

And by elitism, I am talking about getting into sports and how easy it is.

Now I am guessing things like sailing are going to feature highly, so lets keep this to mainstream sports on the whole - which sport is the most socially exclusive when it comes to class? And vice versa, which sport has the lowest common denomiator.

Remember this is just a discussion, so try not to get personal with each other!

A few suggestions from me:

Boxing - although quite a few very well spoken and highly intelligent people have been at the top level (just look at the K brothers for example, although admittedly I dont know much about their families riches growing up), the sport appears to have a lot of rags to riches stories, more so than other sports imo.

Tennis - most of the top stars in this sport seem to have come from richer families. And the money needed to become a top star is much higher than that of boxing for example.

Golf - Possibly the most exclusive at grass roots level? What does it cost to join a club these days? £1000+? And thats before equipment.

Lets hear your thoughts.....

10-minute mile doesn't sound that difficult TBH, as SR says if you're in any sort of shape it's fairly comfortable (I'm not that sure of my mile pace, but going by my 1k pace it's probably somewhere around 5:30 or 6 minutes, and while I'm quite fit I'm not an athlete).

Interesting discussion, and I think it very much depends on where you live. For instance, a few people mention Tennis, but in France it's about as un-elitist as you can get. Golf on the other hand is less affordable...

Running it for 3 miles or more though is different to a one off and I suspect there's a lot of middle aged men like myself that would struggle.

I think people are getting mixed up with running one mile under 10 mins, which is pretty widely achievable. And running at that pace for 3/5 or 10+ miles which can be a whole different kettle of fish.

Elitist sports to me would be things like equestrian, rowing, tennis etc where when you look at the top tiers of those sports they're almost totally made up only one part of society and the chances of a youngster from a public school breaking in to them are very low.

From a totally different angle - ie not from the UK

Any idiot can join a rowing club in NZ - its relatively cheap. Tennis and Golf is a bit expensive if you want to get fancy lessons etc but there are plenty of places to go and have a hack for only a little bit. Of course we have our posh golf clubs as well but even then its only money (as in not a class thing).

Our rugby and soccer is very cheap and the ABs are full of poor boys who've made the big time from some crappy little school. No elitism there (though some schools have been resources etc then others of course)

super_realist wrote:12 minute miles? That's 5MPH. Is anyone that slow

. Old people

How far do you have keep up 10 min mile pace? Presumably more than 1 mile?

I have not done any serious running since I was about 16 but I seem to remember that when doing a 10k you would aim for around 7 minute miles? Would that be correct?


As for golf I think the start up costs are a lot higher than other sports but over the course of a year, or multiple years it can be a lot cheaper than people think. Especially compared to a gym for example. (I am talking about in the UK as in other countries golf most definitely remains "elite")

If you consider £1000 a year as just under £20 a year it starts to seem a little more reasonable. Especially as a lot of clubs now let you pay monthly.

Of course you do need to buy clubs and pay an entrance fee (although not always these days) in year 1 these are both long term investments. The clubs could last 15 years if you wanted them to and the joining fee for as long as you remain a member.

I will not pretend there are other barriers to joining a golf club such as finding current members to sponsor you or a general prejudice towards newcomers to the game, but long term golf does not have to be expensive.

Where golf may be expensive is in terms of the amount of hours you must spend on it, and therefore not on other aspects of your life.

I think people here are discussing affordability not elitism.

Anything to do with horses - except most of the very best jockeys are probably from the traveller community in Ireland ( rather like our various lighter weight boxers). But Polo is probably a different matter.

Tennis - in a oublic park, dead cheap; buy an old racket - with good hard stand you can even play on a decent beach (Margaret Court, record Grand Slam Titles holder, learnt to play with a friend in a very exclusive club in Melbourne (I think); there was a high-ish hedge around the court and as they weren't members they had to keep the ball low over the net so's the groundsman wouldn't see that someone was playing on that court. She was one of the best ever net players on the women's tour.

Golf - horribly expensive unless you buy a Special Offer set of clubs at JJB Sports or similar and play at your local public course. Tends to be more exclusive in cities than in rural areas.


So what about Huntin' shootin' fishin' ...

Hunting - yes I know it is illegal in Britain but - it can be a real toffs' sport but Cap fees (what you pay as a day sub when you are not a full member of the hunt) can be very low and hunts will arrange hire of horses etc etc.

Shooting - a day's game shooting would cost around a few hundred pounds. Annual sub for our local gun club, £25; cost of a day's clay pigeon shooting £7.50. No need to have a gun; tuition free.

Fishing - most popular sport in Britain by number of active participants. Dead cheap - you can even find some places where it is free (most of the Irish coastline) but a season ticket for the lake down the hill from me would have cost you £700 this year? Exclusive?

Incomprehensible that anyone would consider golf to be elitist.

If a person feels you need all the expensive clubs and clobber plus a private club membership then perhaps that person is the elitist, not the sport.

Big irony is that some of the cheapest sports to get started playing, say football, basketball, are among the most expensive to watch the top pros play.

Cricket certainly is for kids here in Jersey.

My brother got picked to play for the Island team but decided to quit as he felt ostricised because he was the only kid there who didn't go to a private school. Other kids would take the michael out of him because he's poor etc.

McLaren wrote:I have not done any serious running since I was about 16 but I seem to remember that when doing a 10k you would aim for around 7 minute miles? Would that be correct?
.

Yeah, about 6.20/6.30 per mile for a 10k is the 40 min magic barrier

yappysnap wrote:I think people are getting mixed up with running one mile under 10 mins, which is pretty widely achievable. And running at that pace for 3/5 or 10+ miles which can be a whole different kettle of fish.

Elitist sports to me would be things like equestrian, rowing, tennis etc where when you look at the top tiers of those sports they're almost totally made up only one part of society and the chances of a youngster from a public school breaking in to them are very low.

That's my point. Put it this way, my office consists of approx 30 people, of which approx 70% are aged between 40 and 50. I reckon only 5% of these, could run 3 miles in 30 minutes.

Should be easy enough for that distance. It's not much more than a fairly slow jog. I walk 2.2 miles to work and it took me 30 minutes this morning.

Not for a fairly unfit 45 year old though. As I have mentioned. They now have beginners nights which is a great idea and well done them.
So now, if a person who wants to get fit they have the option of joining a running club, getting fit and making friends.

I use to play Football and for a couple of years ran the first team. At training we use to get a few turn up who wanted to play but in truth were not good enough even for our second team. Now, this would be like me saying you can't come training as you can't pass a ball straight or header the ball more than 10 yards.

In truth this running club's attitude was wrong and now it's seen the light.

Stella- SR has high standards for fitness levles. Basicaslly if you cant do 3 miles in 30 mins you should have to pay extra tax, or be forced to take your life

The thing is I can when fit. In fact I ran the great south run in 1hr 31mins a few years ago.

Times have changed.

decent..

stella btw i know how you feel- only 5 months ago i was down the gym every day- and could do it in 20 mins.. however although i reakon i could do 3 miles in 30 mins just today- i would feel half dead after. It really doesnt take much for me to lose it- however it doesnt take that much to get it back either!

Stella, I think we went through this last time that some clubs don't necessarily have the people to deal with different standards. It's not necessarily being elitist, just as I don't expect the Aston MArtin Owners Club to open it's doors to those on benefit. Some clubs are run for more "elite" (delicious irony there) runner and others have a broader spectrum. I wouldn't take it personally, it's just a standard they set. Nothing inherently wrong with that.

If you want to join the club, it isn't unreasonable to get a bit of training under your belt, improve your pace a little and then join in, otherwise you'll start with the group and be breathing out of your backside (by the sound of it) after mile 1.

It definitely gets harder to shed weight and keep fit as you get older, lack of motivation I suppose. I know one thing, 90 minutes of Football would kill me. Easier to watch and mock these days.

Come now Stella, you're only 45, you're not dead yet.

90 mins of football would ruin me!!!

i will not be going down that root again. even 5 aside kills me these days!

I have had up and down weight issues for 5 years- i basically train for 1 to 2 months a year then put the weight back on- I wish i could just do it 2 times a week ever week instead but i just cant keep the motivatikon. Basically as soon as i cant get into my 32 jeans i hit the gym every day!!

Stop smoking Oakey.

ermm that would help yeah

super_realist wrote:Come now Stella, you're only 45, you're not dead yet.

I'm actually only 41. 45 was just an example.

Sounds even worse doesn't it

Come on then, you're only 4 years older than me, and I'm as fit as I was 15 years ago, if not fitter.

super_realist wrote:Come on then, you're only 4 years older than me, and I'm as fit as I was 15 years ago, if not fitter.

I don't know about you but in the past few years, I have got married, had two kids and got an office job. All this has affected my weight and motivational issues. An excuse I know but it happens.

I did stop smoking though

Fair enough, I'm not married, don't have kids, do work in an office, but have always been into exercise. I imagine it's easy to let it slide when priorities change, however, simple things like getting off the tube a stop early, taking the stairs instead of the lift, knocking soft drinks on the head and cutting down on booze and junk food will help.
Plenty time for you to turn it round.

Indeed and that's the plan once my knee is better.

F.ck me, I sound like a right whinger

Take up rowing- about as kind on your knees as any exercise bar swimming can be and the training will definitely get you fit

Look at SR getting all social and nice with 'people'. He is almost sounding like a human being !!!!

CJ i love the cross trainer machines- low impact..

If you are looking to lose weight as well as getting fit, get a calorie counter app with the option to add exercise in (like fitness pro)- I lost 12kg marathon training with it but as any exercise under an hour is going to burn hundreds of calories at best, weight is mostly reliant on intake of food which is really easy to control if you monitor it

well one year when I wanted to lose weight in a few weeks - i only ate/ drank, 1000 calories a day but excerised off 2000,all the machines have calorie counters on em.. that lost me a pound a day


I did a stone a nnd a half in less than 3 weeks!

tbh i burn about 900 an hour on the running,step or cross trainers- i cant get close to that on the rowing or cycling!

Rowing machine calorie counters are incorrect, you have to use Concept2.com to work out the true work done. It should be around 1000 calories in 1 hour. Same for running (at least for me at mid-80 kilos).

Also, a negative calory balance is really bad for you mate! Shouldn't be doing that, a net calory balance of 1500 cals will be effective without being dangerous!

It takes something like an extra 2000 on top of your required calorie intake to put on a pound. That's a lot of Mars Bars, or lard sandwiches if you r are Shane Lowry.

If you eat one high calorie thing less per day it should be easy to loose a pound a week.

i know i was feeling faint and was almost zombified- but i was so motivated to lose it!!

I dont think i could handle it again.. I really need to just do regular excersise rather than forcing myself to go nuts once a year!!

super_realist wrote:It takes something like an extra 2000 on top of your required calorie intake to put on a pound. That's a lot of Mars Bars, or lard sandwiches if you r are Shane Lowry.

If you eat one high calorie thing less per day it should be easy to loose a pound a week.

i think its 3500 actually

Wow, that makes it even more difficult to understand how people put on so much weight.

well say someone is spot on there weight- then they stop excersing and have 2500 calories in regular meals but have 2 mars bars every day for 6 months..

thats 500 too many calories a day.. so a pound a week!!

you would put on almost 2 stone!! just by increasing your calories to 3000 a day!

You'd have to be a bit lacking in sight not to see it happening though.
Why not just have a set of scales in the bathroom and then you know when you've put on a few pounds and it's time to do something about it before it gets catastrophic.

I can't feel sympathy when people moan about being 4 stone over weight, it doens't happen by osmosis, and it doesn't happen over night. You have to work at it to put on weight.

SR most people just live there lifes, they dont go down the gym and they go out to restaurants and many have a few beers a few times a week(each beer is 250 calories), they have a choc bar a day and packet of crisps!!(again 250 each)., There may have a litre of ice cream a week as well(1000 calories in that!!)

just an icecream, 15 pints and 7 choc bars is something like !! 6000 to many calories!!!

now even if someone only did that in a month! its almost 2 pounds a month!

they just dont think about it - then bang!! its there!

Its like looking at you puppy dog or your baby every day(you dont realise its grown) but as an outsider you see the puppy or baby every month you see the growth!

I am not excusing this- but i do know how easy it is!

super_realist wrote:It takes something like an extra 2000 on top of your required calorie intake to put on a pound. That's a lot of Mars Bars, or lard sandwiches if you r are Shane Lowry.

If you eat one high calorie thing less per day it should be easy to loose a pound a week.

An extra 2000 over 2 weeks is 10 pints of beer. Or 8 mars bars. Easy to occur over a long period of time actually, especially as 2500 cal per day is an estimate and depends a lot on how sedentary or not one is, and for a person of 90kg, running 1 kilometre (basically irrelevant how fast you run if you are running not walking) burns 100 calories. Also, it is incredibly easy, if you aren't looking at portion size and meal composition, to eat far more than 2500 in regular meals. That's why counting is the most effective way of dieting, you become aware of exactly what you are taking in

Oakey, I do all those things too. I love a drink, curry, chocolate etc.

I understand everyone is different, but it's pretty obvious they haven't really got an excuse. If they don't want t be fat they have to be sensible, moderate and do just a little bit of exercise.

I think half the problem with obesity in this country is people don't take personal responsibility for their own actions, they always look to blame someone else, like genetics, the government, metabolism etc.

It's quite pathetic really.

Titleist is an anagram of elitist.

Coincidence... or is it??

good one!!

Rings true for me as well. Love the best and love titleist!

SR

I agree with you on this obbsession with the victim mentality! I hate it

You dont have to be fat to be out of shape though. I look in pretty decent nick thanks to a quick metabolism but I reckon loads of fatties would be way fitter than me. I eat far too much rubbish and dont get much chance to exercise other than a lot of brisk walking.
Alternatively if you watch the Biggest Loser you can see that even though these guys can be way overweight half way through the series, they are still getting really fit.
I tell you what though, those people must lost a few stones in tears, the amount of blubbing they do in unreal. Great TV though.

Never watch them, but what I dislike about them is that they always claim to be on a "journey"

good on em for trying to lose it - thats all i can say- but the show is not my cup of tea

Everyone does that these days Super. reality show stars, sportsmen.....long distance lorry drivers.......