World Rugby Rankings

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World Rugby Rankings

Post by Portnoy's Complaint on Fri 16 Nov - 18:35

First topic message reminder :

Current World Rankings

IRB Rankings at
http://www.worldrugby.org/rankings#mru

Fixtures according to http://www.espn.co.uk/rugby/fixtures/_/league/180659/

Best odds for each result category from a range of bookies as at http://www.oddschecker.com/rugby-union/six-nations

Code:


Saturday, March 18

Scotland v   Italy   12:30 PM   --   BT Murrayfield, Edinburgh

sco (on 82.18 points) at home -vs- ita (on 71.17 points)

If sco win by 1-15 points   0.000   82.18   71.17   No
If sco win by more than 15   0.000   82.18   71.17   No
If result is a draw   1.000   81.18   72.17   No
If ita win by 1-15 points   2.000   80.18   73.17   No
If ita win by more than 15   3.000   79.18   74.17   No

Scotland (1/16)
Draw (66/1)
Italy (15/1)

France v    Wales   2:45 PM   --   Stade de France, Saint-Denis

fra (on 81.21 points) at home -vs- wal (on 82.16 points)

If fra win by 1-15 points   0.795   82.00   81.36   Yes
If fra win by more than 15   1.193   82.40   80.97   Yes
If result is a draw   0.205   81.00   82.36   No
If wal win by 1-15 points   1.205   80.00   83.36   No
If wal win by more than 15   1.807   79.40   83.97   No

France (8/13)
14:45TV
   

France (8/13)
Draw (25/1)
Wales (13/8)

Ireland v    England   5:00 PM   --   Aviva Stadium, Dublin

ire (on 83.18 points) at home -vs- eng (on 91.02 points)

If ire win by 1-15 points   1.484   84.66   89.54   No
If ire win by more than 15   2.226   85.41   88.79   No
If result is a draw   0.484   83.66   90.54   No
If eng win by 1-15 points   0.516   82.66   91.54   No
If eng win by more than 15   0.774   82.41   91.79   No

Ireland (6/4)
Draw (25/1)
England (9/13)

Original thread:
http://www.606v2.com/t12724p950-irb-world-rankings-part-1


Sources:
Fixtures : http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/fixtures/4776295.stm
IRB Rankings : http://www.espn.co.uk/scrum/rugby/match/fixtures/international.html
Rankings explanation : http://www.irb.com/rankings/explain/index.html
Rankings archive : http://www.irb.com/rankings/archive/index.html
Fixtures : http://www.espnscrum.com/scrum/rugby/current/match/scores/recent.html

Online calculator (Courtesy of Robbo277 (thanks)) : http://www.lassen.co.nz/pagmisc.php#hrh


Last edited by Portnoy's Complaint on Tue 14 Mar - 12:12; edited 122 times in total

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Re: World Rugby Rankings

Post by The Loaded Dog on Mon 4 Feb - 10:50

But your side has lost to Scotland many more times. OK

In fact, you perfected the art of losing to them and we are merely distant imitations.
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Re: World Rugby Rankings

Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler on Mon 4 Feb - 10:57

Form not reputation OK

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Re: World Rugby Rankings

Post by The Loaded Dog on Mon 4 Feb - 11:01

Did you like the 'distant' bit? Wink
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Re: World Rugby Rankings

Post by Biltong on Mon 4 Feb - 13:14

Linebreaker wrote:Keep dreaming Pete.

Though I'd expect you to look for devious ways to try and overtake the teams that battered your lot in November. Keep trying son! Smile

Awh. Come on LB, give them the ranking, it means so much to them. Wink
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Re: World Rugby Rankings

Post by Brendan on Mon 4 Feb - 14:06

Beacuse italy beat France beating france isn't such a big gain either. Ireland are really the only winners pts wise from this weekend.

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Re: World Rugby Rankings

Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler on Mon 4 Feb - 15:03

Biltong wrote:
Linebreaker wrote:Keep dreaming Pete.

Though I'd expect you to look for devious ways to try and overtake the teams that battered your lot in November. Keep trying son! Smile

Awh. Come on LB, give them the ranking, it means so much to them. Wink

To be fair they already gave us the Ashes

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Re: World Rugby Rankings

Post by The Loaded Dog on Tue 5 Feb - 8:34

Yes, we felt rather greedy keeping them for 16 years.
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Re: World Rugby Rankings

Post by Portnoy's Complaint on Thu 7 Feb - 9:25

The facists in IRB stats bunker docked Ireland .01 ranking point from my unofficial numbers.
OP updated

Incidentally the European RWC regional qualifiers have started.
http://www.606v2.com/t27478-rwc-2015-qualifying-updater


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Re: World Rugby Rankings

Post by The Loaded Dog on Thu 7 Feb - 9:56

Nasty IRB! I would have scaled them up .01 if anything.
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Re: World Rugby Rankings

Post by Portnoy's Complaint on Thu 7 Feb - 11:54

Linebreaker wrote:Nasty IRB! I would have scaled them up .01 if anything.
Blame SS(Staisticalsparte) ÛberLeutnant Alan von Türing, LB.

He'll no doubt prevent the English from overturning die Australier thumbsup

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Re: World Rugby Rankings

Post by The Loaded Dog on Thu 7 Feb - 12:57

Wie so denn? Very Happy

Das wäre ein Ort des Unglücks für die Engländer sein!

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Re: World Rugby Rankings

Post by Portnoy's Complaint on Mon 11 Feb - 15:30

Wales up three to 7th
Sotland up two to 10th
Italy down two to 11th
http://www.irb.com/rankings/full.html

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Re: World Rugby Rankings

Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler on Mon 11 Feb - 15:40

Big gap between England and the rest now, according to the rankings they are red hot favourites for a home win over France and get f all boost to their rating if they do so. Overhauling Aus and SA doesnt look a possibility even if they take a grandslam by big margins.

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Re: World Rugby Rankings

Post by Portnoy's Complaint on Mon 11 Feb - 15:59

New s/w calcs in OP.

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Re: World Rugby Rankings

Post by The Loaded Dog on Mon 11 Feb - 21:01

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Big gap between England and the rest now, according to the rankings they are red hot favourites for a home win over France and get f all boost to their rating if they do so. Overhauling Aus and SA doesnt look a possibility even if they take a grandslam by big margins.

Why should they overtake Aus and SA through the back door by beating very average sides? ABs aside of course.

Especially after both teams handed them their ar@e on a plate on their home turf.
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Re: World Rugby Rankings

Post by blackcanelion on Tue 12 Feb - 8:04

I guess they can if the AB's have a rubbish year against France and in the rugby championship and then they go well in the end of year tournament. It will be difficult this year. That's partly a function of their fixture list. I suspect you have do well away from home against the top sides, or win the world cup to end up ranked no 1 in a short period of time.

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Re: World Rugby Rankings

Post by The Loaded Dog on Tue 12 Feb - 8:21

Blackcane, I honestly think there is some disproportionate fear you guys have of France.

I know history tells a certain story in some crucial matches (and that can't be changed) but I'm still stubborn enough to want to back NZ every time in that fixture. I think they fear you more than you do them; however they are slightly more crafty in perpetuating the myth (given France's 25% success rate v NZ) and they must revel in the idea that the greatest rugby nation considers them 'their bogey team'.

As a (mere) Wallaby supporter - I find it difficult to reconcile this fear and it sort of surprises me every time I read or hear about it.
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Re: World Rugby Rankings

Post by Biltong on Tue 12 Feb - 8:32

I tend to agree with LB, I often listen to the statements New Zealanders make when they face certain opponents, this one is more dangerous cause we don't know what to expect, that one runs us ragged so they are more dangerous, this one is predictable so we know what to expect.

It is all true, none of it is factually incorrect. But when you consider the win/loss ratio's sanity should prevail.

Perhaps the all Blacks should lose 50% of their matches for a few years, THEN they will know fear.
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Re: World Rugby Rankings

Post by The Loaded Dog on Tue 12 Feb - 8:45

Biltong... I had to use my spellchecker for "disproportionate"... I've never typed that word before I don't think. Wink

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Re: World Rugby Rankings

Post by Biltong on Tue 12 Feb - 8:48

laughing You could just have said unrealistic, asymmetric, excessive, uncommensurate, inordinate, irregular, lopsided, nonsymmetrical, out of proportion, overbalanced, superfluous, too much, unequal, uneven, unreasonable, unsymmetrical.

Whistle
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Re: World Rugby Rankings

Post by The Loaded Dog on Tue 12 Feb - 8:50

Laugh

Did you see that last line I just deleted? That's our little secret, OK? Whistle
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Re: World Rugby Rankings

Post by Biltong on Tue 12 Feb - 8:51

Missed it, please share.
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Re: World Rugby Rankings

Post by Portnoy's Complaint on Tue 12 Feb - 10:36

Linebreaker wrote:
Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Big gap between England and the rest now, according to the rankings they are red hot favourites for a home win over France and get f all boost to their rating if they do so. Overhauling Aus and SA doesnt look a possibility even if they take a grandslam by big margins.

Why should they overtake Aus and SA through the back door by beating very average sides? ABs aside of course.

Especially after both teams handed them their ar@e on a plate on their home turf.

Ah - the vagaries of the dear old IRB system. Had this been an even year and the game 'away' in France and if the points were as they are and []if [/i] England won then they would overtake both Aus and SA.

fra (on 81.56 points) at home -vs- eng (on 84.94 points)
If fra win by 1-15 points 1.038 82.60 83.90 No
If fra win by more than 15 1.557 83.12 83.38 No
If result is a draw 0.038 81.60 84.90 No
If eng win by 1-15 points 0.962 80.60 85.90 No
If eng win by more than 15 1.443 80.12 86.38 No

So Oz and SA would be average sides? Or need to compete more against PI nations?

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Re: World Rugby Rankings

Post by The Loaded Dog on Tue 12 Feb - 10:41

Too many 'hads', 'ifs' and 'woulds' Portnoy.
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Re: World Rugby Rankings

Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler on Tue 12 Feb - 11:16

Well had Aus beaten England and if SA had squeezed past them in the AIs then they would be ranked above them.

Too many has ifs and woulds for my liking LB, your ranking doesnt count Whistle


Englands chance to overhaul Aus has been wrecked by France being rubbish this year. Im not disagreeing that it doesnt really mean sh1t in the shiort term. The quality of play is more important ( England were notably better than SA on the day, but lost) in seeing where the teams are headed long term.
England have been strong now for a year. Theres a big gap between them and the rest of the 6 nations teams who's form is all over the place. They havent yet reached parity with Aus and SA, but are headed that way.
This is reflected in the current rankings.

On our day, we can beat anyone. Whistle

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Re: World Rugby Rankings

Post by The Loaded Dog on Tue 12 Feb - 11:19

Short memory Pete. Were you abroad in autumn?
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Re: World Rugby Rankings

Post by Portnoy's Complaint on Tue 12 Feb - 11:48

Too many 'hads', 'ifs' and 'woulds' Portnoy.
Deliberately so LB. That's why they were emphasised.

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Re: World Rugby Rankings

Post by The Loaded Dog on Tue 12 Feb - 12:39

I know, I know.

I just want to keep your discussion real for the benefit of others.

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Re: World Rugby Rankings

Post by blackcanelion on Tue 12 Feb - 13:03

Their record against us in the era of 7pt tries is about the same as the Aussies and boks. Boys it goes something like this whoever is winning at halftime will win. That's generally us. If it's all square it'll end in a draw. Unless, it's a world cup on neutral territory, in which case France will overcome a half time deficit and knock the crap out of us. Crying or Very sad

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Re: World Rugby Rankings

Post by blackcanelion on Tue 26 Feb - 2:59

Apparently Wales are ahead of Ireland and Scotland are poised just below the top 8. England are closing in on Australia and France has fallen off the pace.

IRB World Rankings:
1 New Zealand 90.08
2 South Africa 86.94
3 Australia 86.87
4 England 85.30
5 France 81.20
6 Wales 80.74
7 Ireland 79.28
8 Samoa 78.71
9 Argentina 78.71
10 Scotland 78.19
11 Tonga 76.10
12 Italy 74.93

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Re: World Rugby Rankings

Post by Portnoy's Complaint on Tue 26 Feb - 9:15

OP updated.

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Re: World Rugby Rankings

Post by Alex_Germany on Tue 26 Feb - 14:31

Can someone calculate how many points England will have if they beat Italy and Wales by 15+ points?

To some extent that depends on how Wales do against Edingburgh.

I suspect overhauling Australia may not be possible. There's also a chance that England will get beaten by Argentina in the summer, which would be very bad for points. Saying its a B team doesn't count, I assume.

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Re: World Rugby Rankings

Post by Taffineastbourne on Wed 27 Feb - 9:05

Alex_Germany wrote:Can someone calculate how many points England will have if they beat Italy and Wales by 15+ points?

To some extent that depends on how Wales do against Edingburgh.

I suspect overhauling Australia may not be possible. There's also a chance that England will get beaten by Argentina in the summer, which would be very bad for points. Saying its a B team doesn't count, I assume.
Wales v Edinburgh seems a bit of a mismatch Very Happy

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Re: World Rugby Rankings

Post by blackcanelion on Wed 27 Feb - 9:29

Taffineastbourne wrote:
Alex_Germany wrote:Can someone calculate how many points England will have if they beat Italy and Wales by 15+ points?

To some extent that depends on how Wales do against Edingburgh.

I suspect overhauling Australia may not be possible. There's also a chance that England will get beaten by Argentina in the summer, which would be very bad for points. Saying its a B team doesn't count, I assume.
Wales v Edinburgh seems a bit of a mismatch Very Happy

I wouldn't worry about Argentina. even if it's England B with 15 or so players with the Lions. The likelihood is that Argentina will have even more players unavailable. If last year is anything to go by. The top players coming out of Europe were largely rested in June so they could play in the rugby championship (the November side was also weakened).

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Re: World Rugby Rankings

Post by Guest on Thu 28 Feb - 20:19

Alex_Germany wrote:Can someone calculate how many points England will have if they beat Italy and Wales by 15+ points?

To some extent that depends on how Wales do against Edingburgh.

I suspect overhauling Australia may not be possible. There's also a chance that England will get beaten by Argentina in the summer, which would be very bad for points. Saying its a B team doesn't count, I assume.
You can find them stats in dreamonland.com they also have exclusive pics of Unicorns grazing.

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Re: World Rugby Rankings

Post by 2ndtimeround on Sat 9 Mar - 19:15

Alex_Germany wrote:Can someone calculate how many points England will have if they beat Italy and Wales by 15+ points?

To some extent that depends on how Wales do against Edingburgh.

I suspect overhauling Australia may not be possible. There's also a chance that England will get beaten by Argentina in the summer, which would be very bad for points. Saying its a B team doesn't count, I assume.
Laugh Laugh Rolling Eyes Erm

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Re: World Rugby Rankings

Post by wales606 on Sat 9 Mar - 19:23

Wales cruise into 5th
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Re: World Rugby Rankings

Post by The Loaded Dog on Sat 9 Mar - 19:42

I wish he'd hurry up and update the table...
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Re: World Rugby Rankings

Post by Morgannwg on Sat 9 Mar - 23:02

viewtothegym wrote:
Alex_Germany wrote:Can someone calculate how many points England will have if they beat Italy and Wales by 15+ points?

To some extent that depends on how Wales do against Edingburgh.

I suspect overhauling Australia may not be possible. There's also a chance that England will get beaten by Argentina in the summer, which would be very bad for points. Saying its a B team doesn't count, I assume.
You can find them stats in dreamonland.com they also have exclusive pics of Unicorns grazing.

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Re: World Rugby Rankings

Post by Morgannwg on Sat 9 Mar - 23:02

So do teams lose points for getting a draw? I can't imagine we got anything from the Scots game as we were already a few places above them.
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Re: World Rugby Rankings

Post by Portnoy's Complaint on Mon 11 Mar - 10:00

Provisional OP predictions posted.

Will check after official IRB figures are announced.


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Re: World Rugby Rankings

Post by The Loaded Dog on Mon 11 Mar - 12:01

Good. So England can't/won't overtake Australia.

Go Wales!





On second thoughts... I'd rather have England nipping closer to the Wallaby's heels. Smile
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Re: World Rugby Rankings

Post by Cyril on Mon 11 Mar - 12:23

Morgannwg wrote:So do teams lose points for getting a draw? I can't imagine we got anything from the Scots game as we were already a few places above them.
It depends on the differences in ranking points between the sides before the game and also takes into account home advantage.

'Places' aren't factored in. It's just the points.

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Re: World Rugby Rankings

Post by Biltong on Mon 11 Mar - 12:24

Linebreaker wrote:Good. So England can't/won't overtake Australia.

Go Wales!





On second thoughts... I'd rather have England nipping closer to the Wallaby's heels. Smile
It's just rankings mate, it doesn't mean much in the greater scheme of things, it is win records that count. Wink
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Re: World Rugby Rankings

Post by The Loaded Dog on Mon 11 Mar - 12:51

You know my views are the same mate.

Our Test cricket team will be safe at least until 2076... everyone else is so far behind. Wink
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Re: World Rugby Rankings

Post by Biltong on Mon 11 Mar - 13:27

Linebreaker wrote:You know my views are the same mate.

Our Test cricket team will be safe at least until 2076... everyone else is so far behind. Wink
I look at cricket in two era's

The one prior to our isolation - I call that history.

And then this era, whereby we try to catch Austrlia in wins. Whistle
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Re: World Rugby Rankings

Post by Portnoy's Complaint on Mon 11 Mar - 15:39

OP confirmed.
I can't believe that Blighty can't catch at least the downward-spiralling Marsupials and a big win to overcome the antelopes.

Bugger the hardness and inscrutability of mathematics!

The top three are unlikely to be troubled before the autumn.


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Re: World Rugby Rankings

Post by Morgannwg on Tue 12 Mar - 18:40

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:
Morgannwg wrote:So do teams lose points for getting a draw? I can't imagine we got anything from the Scots game as we were already a few places above them.
It depends on the differences in ranking points between the sides before the game and also takes into account home advantage.

'Places' aren't factored in. It's just the points.

And we were ranked a few places above them due to the points difference. Hence the reference. Understand?
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Re: World Rugby Rankings

Post by robbo277 on Tue 12 Mar - 20:17

Wales would have got a points for beating Scotland. You get points as long as you aren't over 10 points ahead of your opponents - once you've adjusted for home advantage. Before last week's game, Wales were on 80.74 while Scotland were on 78.19, so with a 3-point boost for home advantage Scotland were ranked higher than Wales when working out the points exchange.

England, on the other hand, had 85.30 points, while Italy were on 74.93. With a 3-point boost for England's home advantage, England were way over 10 points ahead of Italy, therefore gained nothing for beating them (and would have gained nothing even if they had beaten Italy by 100 points).

To complete the review, France were ranked on 81.20 and Ireland on 79.28. With Ireland's 3-point boost for home advantage, they were ranked above France when calculating the exchange. Therefore France "over-performed" by drawing away from home and Ireland "under-performed" - at least in terms of IRB rankings. France therefore would take a small number of points from Ireland.

This plays out in this week's rankings, as England and Italy are ranked as they were last week, Wales and France have both increased their points totals while Ireland and Scotland have both decreased their points totals. Wales are the big winners (as they won away from home).

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Re: World Rugby Rankings

Post by robbo277 on Tue 12 Mar - 20:23

With Australia not playing a test against a ranked team until the Rugby Championship (Lions tests don't count towards rankings) and South Africa playing a home quad-series with Scotland, Italy and Samoa (all ranked over 10 points below them when SA's home advantage is taken into account) therefore unable to gain points, England could well overtake both of them if they manage to win their next 3 games against Wales and Argentina twice (all away from home). Assuming 3 narrow wins, England would finish up on 87.24, enough to take England ahead of both South Africa and Australia ahead of the Rugby Championship.

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Re: World Rugby Rankings

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