Why leggies have become wrong'uns

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Why leggies have become wrong'uns

Post by Shelsey93 on Wed 28 Nov 2012, 9:30 pm

Richie Benaud, Abdul Qadir, Anil Kumble, Mushtaq Ahmed, Bill O’Reilly, Clarrie Grimmett. Six legends of the game, and all of them were leg-spinners. The retirements of the two with the highest wicket hauls - Warne and Kumble - took place only a short time ago. But the leg-spinner has become an endangered species. The only frontline wrist spinner regularly selected for Test cricket in 2012 has been Imran Tahir. And his Test career now hangs by a thread after dispatched round the Adelaide Oval at well over a run-a-ball last week, and gaining little reward for it. With the demise of Tahir, we could well have seen the demise of the Test Match leg-spinner.

2012 has been a particularly challenging year for the art mastered by Warne. It was hoped that his career would inspire a generation of youngsters to bowl like him, but we are still waiting for anything remotely resembling the ‘new Warne’ to materialise. Since January just 387 overs of leg-spin have been delivered. 261 of those were bowled by Tahir, who has taken 17 wickets at an average of more than 55. No others have made a significant contribution to Test Matches with the ball - Devendra Bishoo’s 53 overs against the Australians at Bridgetown cost him his place in the West Indies team, Graeme Cremer took 2 wickets in Zimbabwe’s only Test of the year, and New Zealand new boy Todd Astle has so far contributed just 13 overs to his team’s strong showing in their ongoing Test in Sri Lanka. With left-armers Daniel Vettori and Jeetan Patel around the chances are he won’t feature when his team return to the more familiar surroundings of Napier and Wellington (or the Middle of Middle Earth as its being called this week). The leggie with the second most wickets is in fact David Warner, but something will have gone wrong if Australia start picking him for his tweakers.

Compare this current state of affairs with 2002. Warne and Kumble took 116 wickets between them, with Danish Kaneria taking 26 of his own and Stuart MacGill an impressive 14 in the 2 matches for which he was picked. To prove that that year wasn’t a legend inspired fluke, look no further than 1982 - Qadir took 38, Sri Lanka’s Somachandra de Silva weighed in with 23 and a number of others also made worthy contributions. This reflects the state of affairs in most years - until now.

So, why have leggies suddenly become wrong’uns? For a start leg-spin bowling is perhaps the hardest cricketing discipline to master: patience is needed on the part of the bowler, his captain and his coaches. Leg-spinners rarely understand their game until they’re in their 30s, and will often frustratingly bowl a rank long-hop at least once an over. In the T20 age cricket those long-hops invariably find themselves hoiked over the boundary ropes, knocking the bowler’s confidence and, in the case of Tahir, making him look more club bowler than match-winning Test spinner. In the case of young players this can lead to them being hid away from the action when the going is tough. That in turn makes it difficult to justify their selection, and ultimately they need to have a second string to their bow to make sure they’re in the team at the good times. In the recent cases of Cameron White, Steve Smith and Adil Rashid the batting has to a greater or lesser extent taken over.

In addition, the decline of leg-spin has mirrored a boom in left-arm spin. Back in 2002 new England one-day coach Ashley Giles was the world’s best left-arm spinner, taking 23 wickets at 42. But in 2012 there are four left-armers with 20 or more wickets thus far, including Test cricket’s leading wicket taker in the calendar year Rangana Herath and, in just four Tests, Monty Panesar. Pragyan Ojha and Abdur Rehman are the others and, had Bangladesh played more Tests this year, Shakib-al-Hasan would also stand a good chance of being on that list. Some have attributed this to the Decision Review System and the increased chances of getting lbw decisions in the bowlers favour. But a reluctance to risk leg-spin is surely also a factor: where captains were once willing to back the wrist-spinners who give it a bigger rip, they are now favouring left-armers who turn the ball the same way whilst offering much more control.

Of course, leg spin can make a comeback - we’ve seen what Murali did for the supposedly dying art of off-spin. But attitudes will need to change. Leg-spinners will need to be backed more, and will need to take the initiative in focusing more on cutting out the long-hop. Otherwise Michael Clarke’s slaughter of Tahir might have marked the end of the front-line Test Match leg-spinner.

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Re: Why leggies have become wrong'uns

Post by skyeman on Wed 28 Nov 2012, 10:41 pm

Good article Shelsey, as you say, this style of bowling does need patience and is difficult to master.

Qadir though is trying to set up an academy in Pakistan to find the next big leggy, and i hope others follow suit.

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Re: Why leggies have become wrong'uns

Post by dummy_half on Wed 28 Nov 2012, 11:05 pm

To be fair, in the years between Qadir and Warne, quality leg spinners were as rare as rocking horse droppings, and before that you have to go back to the 50s and Benaud's era for the last time they were a regular feature in most Test teams (noting that England have usually relied on finger spinners.

You mention Kumble as a leading wicket taker, but he was hardly a great spinner of the ball - mostly top-spinners at a relatively quick pace, so minimising his likelihood of bowling a rank bad ball.

Leg spin bowling is almost certainly the most difficult skill to master, and with the good wickets and big bats of the modern game too many young leggies just get smashed out of the attack, so don't get enough overs to refine their skills.

In conclusion, Warne was a freak, and I will be surprised if I see anyone ever spin a ball harder without compromising the line and length. Hell, his first ball in a Test in England was enough to create his legend (poor old Gatts, he looked as though someone had beaten him to the buffet), and what he went on to achieve was sensational.

Hopefully Warne and Qadir can find and nurture some talent that is at least half as good as they were.

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Re: Why leggies have become wrong'uns

Post by Corporalhumblebucket on Sat 01 Dec 2012, 2:08 pm

Shelsey - good article. England never benefited from renaissance of leg spinners. Robin Hobbs took 12 test wickets at an average of around 40 between 1967 and 1971. Then a big gap until 1992 when Ian Salisbury's less than prolific England career began - he managed 20 wickets at an average of around 77 Shocked "unable to control both his nerves and his radar."

Barrington was more successful than either of the above - taking 29 wickets at an average of around 45. This was of course subordinate to his outstanding batting achievements.

Best England leg spinner of relatively modern times has to be Bob Barber who played for England in 1960s. A fine batsman who was probably not too far short of all rounder status - taking 42 wickets at average of around 43. This was in just 28 test.

Doug Wright took the most test wickets for an English leg spinner post WW2 but that is going back a very long way - he last played for England in the early 1950s.

All in all not a record of outstanding success. Seems virtually certain that any future England leg spinner would have to be a strong batsmen as well.... Conceivably Adil Rashid might make a breakthrough - but he seems to be marking time at the moment.

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Re: Why leggies have become wrong'uns

Post by Hoggy_Bear on Sat 01 Dec 2012, 2:31 pm

Corporal
I'd argue that, in England, leg-spin bowling was long seen as an art which required a great deal of freedom in order too be effective at the highest level. Thus, before WWII you had players like 'Tich' Freeman being left out of the England team in favour of amateurs whose county records were inferior while, after WWII with the introduction of greater 'professionalism' to the game, leg-spin came to be seen as too frivilous, too risky, and off and left-arm spinners were seen as being a much safer bet.

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Re: Why leggies have become wrong'uns

Post by Shelsey93 on Sat 01 Dec 2012, 2:41 pm

It is certainly true that historically front-line leg-spinners have almost exclusively come from Australia, India and Pakistan. But until recently each of those three did have one almost constantly.

In England I expect that is a result of players here being more subject to the coaching manual, and being taught off-spin (after all, if leg-spin is the most difficult art to master do you actually teach it to any one, or do you just hope someone picks it up and masters it).

As you say, I suspect that any future leg-spinner will be at least a No. 7 batsman: a position allowing them to conceivably be of value to the team whilst bowling only a handful of overs if conditions and match situations don't suit. Just as I wrote that article Scott Borthwick took 6-for the EPP against an admittedly very mediocre Indian XI in Mumbai. England seem to fancy him, but he's far from a regular FC bowler for Durham.

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Re: Why leggies have become wrong'uns

Post by gboycottnut on Sat 01 Dec 2012, 5:31 pm

There were 3 Australian leg spinners who were looking to succeed the great Shane Warne after the 2007 World Cup. Beau Casson was the first to have been given a chance during the 2008 tour of the Carribean. Following him, Australia then tried out Bryce McGain during the tour of South Africa in 2009. The only member of this threesome not to have been given a chance ti reoresent Australia is Cullen Bailey.

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Re: Why leggies have become wrong'uns

Post by Shelsey93 on Sat 01 Dec 2012, 6:54 pm

Beau Casson was technically 'chinaman', but his FC average of 43 suggests that he was picked only because of what he bowls. He's a sad story though - he was forced to retire just 2 years after his only Test because of a heart defect.

Bryce McGain's figures are pretty OK for a modern leg-spinner at domestic level, but at Test level he got the same treatment Tahir got last week: spanked all over Newlands by Jacques Kallis and AB de Villiers if I remember rightly.

Any suggestion that Cullen Bailey should play Test cricket is again probably a result of being a leggie more than anything. He's only taken 5 wickets in an innings twice, so quite what his role in the team would be I don't know - as he has an average approaching 50.

And that highlights the problem. Its not only teams not selecting them, but a lack of good leggies at domestic level too that is worrying (for the future of leg-spin bowling).

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Re: Why leggies have become wrong'uns

Post by Gerry SA on Sat 01 Dec 2012, 7:27 pm

Leg spin is dying at none of the current batch do what is essential for that art - actually rip it big.

Guys like Tahir, Chawla, Mishra, Rahul Sharma, Rashid all roll there leg breaks and rely on the wrong un.

Until they can really rip the leg break, they have little chance of having a successful international career.

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Re: Why leggies have become wrong'uns

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Sat 01 Dec 2012, 10:14 pm

Gerry SA wrote:Leg spin is dying at none of the current batch do what is essential for that art - actually rip it big.

Guys like Tahir, Chawla, Mishra, Rahul Sharma, Rashid all roll there leg breaks and rely on the wrong un.

Until they can really rip the leg break, they have little chance of having a successful international career.

very good comment. When Tahir burst onto the scene he was seen as a great prospect because of his very good googly. Thing is, with increased video analysis and such spinners are now much easier to pick than they used to be, and as soon as people started picking his googly he struggled. Narine and even Ashwin are currently suffering from similar problems. Similarly Rashid was viewed as very promising because of his accuracy, but in fact he didn't turn the ball nearly enough. I also think T20 has placed a lot of emphasis on "variety" whereas to bowl sides out in tests as a spinner you generally need to be patient and bowl several overs in the same spot.

Of course, Anil Kumble, though not a classical leg-spinner, was successful despite not turning it hugely. I rate Scott Borthwick, who looks like an excellent prospect, and hope he'll be allowed to develop properly (unlike Rashid for instance, though that was probably partly his own fault).

Other than that, I'm not sure leg-spin is anymore of a dying breed than it was when Warne came along. Quality leg-spinners have been few and far between in the history of Test cricket, and that's unlikely to change IMO.

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Re: Why leggies have become wrong'uns

Post by Shelsey93 on Sat 01 Dec 2012, 10:31 pm

Tahir's issue is that at Test level where batsmen are a/ better, b/ more likely to spend hours preparing for a match with video analysis etc. and c/ have to deal with Steyn, Morkel and Philander at the other end, people are going to make sure they work out how to read his googly and how to destroy him.

After seeing him play for Hampshire I thought he'd be a major asset for SA. But in practice it really hasn't worked.

I agree with Gerry SA that getting it to rip is important. And I also agree with MFC that bowlers are being put off that by one-day cricket - where unless your playing on a minefield or are Shane Warne you need some variation.

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Re: Why leggies have become wrong'uns

Post by gboycottnut on Sun 02 Dec 2012, 12:37 am

The only real reason I can see that young cricketer's get put of being a leg-spinner is that the actual the dark arts of leg-spin bowling is so difficult to master when compared to say mastering off-spin bowling first and then looking to develop some crucial variations to the off-spinning stock deliveries later in one's career by adding doosra or teesra deliveries.

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Re: Why leggies have become wrong'uns

Post by msp83 on Sun 02 Dec 2012, 9:58 am

After Kumble, Amit Mishra and Piyush Chawla were the one who were expected to take over, but both of them proved to be not quite international class. Jumbo didn't turn it big like Warne did, but he turned just enough and had terrific control over his pace and he was always willing to learn.
Rahul Sharma also doesn't turn it, but unlike Kumble, he doesn't turn it at all, and doesn't do much else either.

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Re: Why leggies have become wrong'uns

Post by guildfordbat on Sun 02 Dec 2012, 1:33 pm

Shelsey - interesting opening article. Sorry I wasn't able to respond when it first appeared. Glad it has now picked up momentum and attracted some good posts. A few comments now of my own.

The Corporal has covered the history of this art in England very well. I often overlook Bob Barber whom the Corporal has mentioned before - he (Barber, not the Corporal Smile )was just about packing up playing as I was starting to watch the game. Since Doug Wright in the 1950s, no one from this country has looked like becoming a bowling master of leg spin. To the names supplied by the Corporal, you can also add that of Chris Schofield.

Ian Salisbury was always going to be a disaster at Test level and the selectors merit far more criticism than the man himself. Salisbury bowled well in tandem with Saqlain Mushtaq at Surrey but was always the junior partner. Salisbury owed many of his wickets to Saqlain bamboozling and tieing down batsmen at the other end. It used to be a running joke at the Oval that they would be so relieved to be facing Solly that they would lose all concentration and hit the first ball from him straght up in the air. Like so many jokes, there was more than a hint of truth in that. To expect Salisbury to go and bowl at much higher class batsmen in Tests and as the number one slow bowler bordered on the ridiculous. Salisbury would have done better if he'd had someone like Underwood bowling at the other end, always on the spot and very much restricting the batsmen's flow of runs. That said, Salisbury never really had sufficient control of the ball to be a success at Test level.

I think the whole Salisbury experience created a feeling of unease for the England Test selectors concerning picking a leg spinner. Add to that, we don't have the traditions of this type of bowling at the highest level and rarely do we set out to produce suitable wickets for it to flourish.

That can be particularly contrasted with Australia. Of the seven greats mentioned in your opening para, four were Australian. The Aussies have always been much keener on this type of bowling. Largely forgotten now in terms of their playing careers, I recall from the 1970s and '80s the likes of Terry Jenner (remembered now far more for his coaching of Shane Warne), Kerry O'Keefe and Bob ''Dutchy'' Holland. The last of those illustrates the benefits of good leg spin but also the difficulties of mastering it. Dutchy Holland didn't play his first Test until he was 38. He only played a total of 11 Tests but still took two tenfers (two more than Lindwall and Thomson combined). However, his Test bowling average ended up unimpressively around 39.

Australia have always struck me as keen to try and unearth leg spin and give it an opportunity. Sometimes it works a bit as above and in the odd case, as Shane Warne, it is spectacularly effective.

India also has a good track record in this form. Two other near greats from the early 1950s to the end of the 1970s were Subhash Gupte and Bhagwat Chandrasekhar. Surprised msp hasn't sung their praises yet. Wink

As others have said and despite my references to Warne, Gupte and Chandra, top quality leg spinners have been more the exception than the norm over the years. I believe and certainly hope that we haven't seen the end of leg spin at the highest level but are currently witnessing a break between the best spells. When that break will end, I don't know. I've no idea if Scott Borthwick or another up and coming player here or overseas will be the answer. All I ask is that they be given an opportunity.

In a small way at least, I believe t20 will help - notwithstanding Shelsey's valid comment that leggies may be seen as being too expensive. Thirty years ago a leggie would never have been chosen for a limited overs game. Often, only four front line bowlers would be picked and the fifth would be a combination of batsmen bowling a few overs each (as in the disastrous England bowling combo of Gooch/Boycott/Larkins in the 1979 World Cup final). Nowadays, there is more of a tendency to pick around six bowling options in t20 so as to allow for most contingencies. This should increase the chances of a Borthwick getting a game. It'll then be up to him to take that chance and demonstrate the effectiveness of his art.

It won't be easy but it never has been. Many have failed to develop the leg spinning potential they showed at a young age. Two of those were Mike Atherton and Nasser Hussain although they did pretty well in compensating with other areas of their game. Very Happy

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Re: Why leggies have become wrong'uns

Post by Shelsey93 on Sun 02 Dec 2012, 1:58 pm

gboycottnut wrote:The only real reason I can see that young cricketer's get put of being a leg-spinner is that the actual the dark arts of leg-spin bowling is so difficult to master when compared to say mastering off-spin bowling first and then looking to develop some crucial variations to the off-spinning stock deliveries later in one's career by adding doosra or teesra deliveries.

I think another which I have mentioned in a previous discussion is that (at least in this country) county-level coaching structures from which all the best players go through don't give much opportunity to 'rough diamonds': if you're a great leggie, but not a well-coached batsman and average in the field, the chances are you won't make the grade. At least from my club and local area, almost all of those that play at county level and thus have access to the best coaches, facilities and training programmes show excellence in all three departments. Generally, leg-spin is a skill picked up naturally rather than through coaching in the first instance and so I suspect a lot of potentially good leggies have it tough to get in to the system. There is what seems to be a concerted plan to get batsmen to bowl some spin, even if they have shown talent as a quick bowler, and fairly often that will be leg-spin. But this is always a second string rather than a primary part of their game.

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Re: Why leggies have become wrong'uns

Post by Corporalhumblebucket on Sun 02 Dec 2012, 2:12 pm

Excellent post Guildford. clap

Good to mention Chandra - brings back early memories of Indian test team when they really wanted to pick four spinners in the same team - Bedi, Chandra, Venkat and Prasanna. I don't know whether they ever managed it!

Schofield is interesting mention. Best to draw a veil over his wicketless test career. After dropping out of the Lancs set up he enjoyed several years at Surrey before, again, being released. He was notably unsuccessful as a bowler in the first class game for Surrey - but was very reasonable in limited overs cricket. He took fair number of wickets and was not all that often hit out of the attack. This, combined with an aggressive and unorthodox batting technique, made him an important member of the side with a multi spin attack that helped Surrey win the CB the season before last. I would say there could well be a role in limited overs cricket for a leg spinner. In particular one who can bat a bit as well. The key point being the requirement for the batsman to hit out from the word go. In first class game Schofield probably in same bracket as Salisbury. A good batsman could more or less rely on one really bad ball per over (more on a bad day Sad ) and so could accumulate runs fairly quickly without taking many risks...

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Re: Why leggies have become wrong'uns

Post by guildfordbat on Sun 02 Dec 2012, 7:59 pm

Corporalhumblebucket wrote:Excellent post Guildford. clap

Good to mention Chandra - brings back early memories of Indian test team when they really wanted to pick four spinners in the same team - Bedi, Chandra, Venkat and Prasanna. I don't know whether they ever managed it!

...

Thanks, Corporal.

I believe the Indian spin quartet played just one Test together. At Edgbaston in July '67. England won fairly comfortably but that was due to failings of the Indian batsmen.

Once Venkat came on the scene, he and Prasanna were often competing for the third of the normally three slow bowling spots available. Prasanna was considered the superior bowler but Venkat's better batting and fielding tended to win the day. [I look to msp to correct me if any of that is wrong. Smile ]

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Re: Why leggies have become wrong'uns

Post by guildfordbat on Thu 31 Jan 2013, 8:15 pm

Some of the points made on this thread relate to the interesting blog posted by LuvSports under ''Where are the next Shane Warnes?'.

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Bob Holland RIP

Post by guildfordbat on Sun 17 Sep 2017, 8:36 pm

guildfordbat wrote:Shelsey - interesting opening article. Sorry I wasn't able to respond when it first appeared. Glad it has now picked up momentum and attracted some good posts. A few comments now of my own.

The Corporal has covered the history of this art in England very well. I often overlook Bob Barber whom the Corporal has mentioned before - he (Barber, not the Corporal  Smile )was just about packing up playing as I was starting to watch the game. Since Doug Wright in the 1950s, no one from this country has looked like becoming a bowling master of leg spin. To the names supplied by the Corporal, you can also add that of Chris Schofield.

Ian Salisbury was always going to be a disaster at Test level and the selectors merit far more criticism than the man himself. Salisbury bowled well in tandem with Saqlain Mushtaq at Surrey but was always the junior partner. Salisbury owed many of his wickets to Saqlain bamboozling and tieing down batsmen at the other end. It used to be a running joke at the Oval that they would be so relieved to be facing Solly that they would lose all concentration and hit the first ball from him straght up in the air. Like so many jokes, there was more than a hint of truth in that. To expect Salisbury to go and bowl at much higher class batsmen in Tests and as the number one slow bowler bordered on the ridiculous. Salisbury would have done better if he'd had someone like Underwood bowling at the other end, always on the spot and very much restricting the batsmen's flow of runs. That said, Salisbury never really had sufficient control of the ball to be a success at Test level.

I think the whole Salisbury experience created a feeling of unease for the England Test selectors concerning picking a leg spinner. Add to that, we don't have the traditions of this type of bowling at the highest level and rarely do we set out to produce suitable wickets for it to flourish.

That can be particularly contrasted with Australia. Of the seven greats mentioned in your opening para, four were Australian. The Aussies have always been much keener on this type of bowling. Largely forgotten now in terms of their playing careers, I recall from the 1970s and '80s the likes of Terry Jenner (remembered now far more for his coaching of Shane Warne), Kerry O'Keefe and Bob ''Dutchy'' Holland. The last of those illustrates the benefits of good leg spin but also the difficulties of mastering it. Dutchy Holland didn't play his first Test until he was 38. He only played a total of 11 Tests but still took two tenfers (two more than Lindwall and Thomson combined). However, his Test bowling average ended up unimpressively around 39.

Australia have always struck me as keen to try and unearth leg spin and give it an opportunity. Sometimes it works a bit as above and in the odd case, as Shane Warne, it is spectacularly effective.

India also has a good track record in this form. Two other near greats from the early 1950s to the end of the 1970s were Subhash Gupte and Bhagwat Chandrasekhar. Surprised msp hasn't sung their praises yet.  Wink

As others have said and despite my references to Warne, Gupte and Chandra, top quality leg spinners have been more the exception than the norm over the years. I believe and certainly hope that we haven't seen the end of leg spin at the highest level but are currently witnessing a break between the best spells. When that break will end, I don't know. I've no idea if Scott Borthwick or another up and coming player here or overseas will be the answer. All I ask is that they be given an opportunity.

In a small way at least, I believe t20 will help - notwithstanding Shelsey's valid comment that leggies may be seen as being too expensive. Thirty years ago a leggie would never have been chosen for a limited overs game. Often, only four front line bowlers would be picked and the fifth would be a combination of batsmen bowling a few overs each (as in the disastrous England bowling combo of Gooch/Boycott/Larkins in the 1979 World Cup final). Nowadays, there is more of a tendency to pick around six bowling options in t20 so as to allow for most contingencies. This should increase the chances of a Borthwick getting a game. It'll then be up to him to take that chance and demonstrate the effectiveness of his art.

It won't be easy but it never has been. Many have failed to develop the leg spinning potential they showed at a young age. Two of those were Mike Atherton and Nasser Hussain although they did pretty well in compensating with other areas of their game.  Very Happy

Hearing the news today of Bob Holland's too early death at the age of 70 rang distant bells for this thread and having dug it out thought I would share.

'Dutchy', as he was predictably known, was and should remain a statto's delight. Australia's oldest post war debutant at the age of 38. Only played 11 Tests, all in the mid 1980s, but the leg spinner took two match tenfers. One of those achieved an innings win over the West Indies and included the wickets of Greenidge, Haynes, Richards, Richardson, Gomes, Lloyd and Dujon. By all accounts, also a fine coach and bloke who deserved that short time in the sun. RIP.





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Re: Why leggies have become wrong'uns

Post by KP_fan on Sun 17 Sep 2017, 9:59 pm

Well I reminisced the year 1985 this morning when I read the news on Holland's demise.
May he RIP

On the 1985 tour to Aus.....Srikkanth the dashing Indian opener, the earliest in the genre of Sehwag & Warner....finally played an inning to his potential....smashed a 100, his first in test cricket...a run a ball inning and took I think 27 runs of a Holland over....who went for close to 6 RPO over 20 odd overs.....and India smashed nearly 350 runs on the opening day...

Given that that was 1985....all of the above seemed out of a dream sequence.....praised lavishly by the Aussie media....and  Richie Benaud reported later...that Srikkanth's inning video against Holland were used for training / as guides on how use footwork to leg spinners.

It seemed like a match and anecdote from not too long back....and now Holland is no more.....aged 70
and I back calculated today to realize for the first time today that he was already 38 that day of Srikkanth in Sydney...

How Time has flown by angel
Once again....RIP
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Re: Why leggies have become wrong'uns

Post by Gooseberry on Thu 30 Nov 2017, 10:29 am

The interesting thing is that leg spin is very much flavour of the year in T20, or at leats the IPL anyway. Even outside of that Rashid or Crane have been used by England ...a country with no modern pedigree in leg spin....in every T20 they have played.

Tests ...it seems there is a desire to get them in teams but very few who do anything with it still. There was a clamour in the Aus media to find one to replace Lyon earlier in the year ...something thats been shown to be as daft as it seemed. Rashids been ditched by England, Tahir by SA (despite hims till being an excellent limited over bowler) ...Cranes travelled to the ashes but thats always seemed a bizzare sleection based on wanting " something different" than any real expectation hes a genuine test bowling option.

The test bowler rankings really only has Yasir Shah of any note, and his action is "somewhat questionable". There are a lot of left arm orthodox spinners around though, so what the article noted 5 years ago does seem to have held true....except for thinking that "another Sahne Warne" is just around the corner. Hes absolutely the outlier in the past few decades, even more so than Shah is currently. That theres so much leg spin success in IPL etc shows that there isnt just a dearth of talent out there, but that rules picthes and the approach of batsmen have made them less effective (and perhaps less interested) in the longer format. Thats counter by a resurgence in orthodox spin, and pretty mcuh anyone who can bowl it left handed being pretty useful (except Dawson)

Gooseberry

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Re: Why leggies have become wrong'uns

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