Pacquiao v Marquez Trilogy Scorecards

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Pacquiao v Marquez Trilogy Scorecards Empty Pacquiao v Marquez Trilogy Scorecards

Post by John Bloody Wayne on Thu 06 Dec 2012, 2:50 am

I've never saved any scorecards I've taken from fights, and with the 4th meeting approaching I took this as a pretty good time to watch the trilogy again and keep record of those controversial scores, while also getting everybody else's views on them. I've always seen Pacquiao v Marquez as the Ali v Norton of the modern era, with one wrong decision from afew very close fights being the cause for many to deem each fight a blatant and disgusting robbery. To me this a revisionist view of what actually happened. So without further ado, here are my cards

Manny v Marquez 1

P | M
1 10 6
2 10 9 20/15
3 10 10 30/25
4 10 9 40/34
5 9 10 49/44
6 9 10 58/54
7 9 10 67/64
8 9 10 76/74
9 10 10 86/84
10 10 9 96/93
11 9 10 105/103
12 9 10 114/113

6-4-2 Marquez on rounds

Great clash of styles, battle of the back hands. Marquez started controlling the pace and landing the better quality shots once his head cleared after the disastrous opening round. Can't see how any result could be seen as a robbery personally, however I can see why Pacquiao might feel a little hard done by as the judge who had it a draw infamously scored the first 10-7 instead of 10-6.

Manny v Marquez 2


P | M
1 10 9
2 10 9 20/18
3 10 8 30/26
4 10 9 40/35
5 9 10 49/45
6 9 10 58/55
7 10 9 68/64
8 9 10 77/74
9 10 10 87/84
10 10 9 97/93
11 9 10 106/103
12 9 10 115/113

6-5-1 Pacquiao on rounds.

This time I thought Pacquiao's timing was better than it was in 2004, especially early on. He was better at hitting and then getting out of the way without wasting too much energy. After taking the early initiative Pacquiao then starts falling into Marquez' traps on the way in. However part of the reason I gave more rounds to Pacquiao was because it was hard to give close rounds to a guy who often wouldn't engage and spent the whole round moving away. I understand that ring generalship is a massively important part, but if one guy is moving away not "starting it" the whole round and the other is throwing all the power shots I've got to go with the guy who looks like he's actually hurting his foe. I thought Pacquiao fought with greater energy in some rounds too. Another very, very close fight that has gone down as a robbery of Marquez in some quarters.

From what I've read on this forum and in several other places, the above score cards are bafflingly innacurate and lacking in any kind of objectivity because they don't have Marquez winning. So if you're one of those who will so often call any fight that goes to Pacquiao a robbery then go ahead, tell me where I'm wrong. Which rounds have I scored so horrendously, blatantly wrong? I am totally open to the idea of being wrong. Just show me where it's happened.

Saving the best, or most controversial at least, until last...

Manny v Marquez 3

P | M
1 10 9
2 10 9 20/18
3 9 10 29/28
4 9 10 38/38
5 9 10 47/48
6 10 10 57/58
7 9 10 66/68
8 10 9 76/77
9 9 10 85/87
10 9 10 94/97
11 10 9 104/106
12 10 9 114/115

6-5-1 Marquez on rounds

Once again Pacquiao improved technically. This time he was much better at simultaneously ducking and leading with the left and also throwing short right hooks that he wasn't as good at previously. In some ways Marquez has improved too, because his strongest muscle is his brain, and that doesn't fade with more fights, his just gets stronger. He only gets smarter.

When I first scored this fight I had it a point to Pacquiao, this time I've scored it a point to Marquez, making it the only one where I agree with the apparent consensus (sort of) in that I had Marquez winning. However I don't agree with the consensus that this was a robbery. I'll once again invite you to point out which rounds I scored massively wrong.

What I really want to know is, did anyone have Marquez having an unassailable lead going into the last four rounds, because neither man really took any of those rounds.

Having said all this, I can see why Marquez fans feel hard done by seeing their man come out of this 0-2-1. Basically because three fights that could've gone either way never went his way. However looking at each fight individually I don't see a robbery in any of them, however am open to suggestion.

Please do post contrasting cards. I can see reasons for any of these three fights going down as a win for either or draws.

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Post by Soldier_Of_Fortune on Thu 06 Dec 2012, 7:34 am

Everyone knows it was 10-1-1 in rounds to Marquez in there first fight Laugh

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Post by 88Chris05 on Thu 06 Dec 2012, 9:37 am

Howdy, JBW. Good to see you back.

I actually had another look at the first fight the other day myself, as it goes. I can just about remember my card for the third fight, too, but can't remember what rounds I gave to who for the second.

First fight, I gave Pacquiao the first, second and ninth. I had the seventh even, with all the rest to Marquez. Factor in the three knockdowns and, not for the first time, I finished up with a 114-112 score in Marquez's favour. A draw was no robbery in that fight, not at all. The twelfth, which I gave to Marquez, could certainly have been an even round as well, which would make it even tighter.

As I said, I can't remember exactly which rounds I gave to either man for the second, but I do remember I had it six apiece; so, yet again, the knockdown played a crucial role and I had Pacquiao winning it 114-113.

The third fight is the only one I'd feel confident of using the 'r' word to describe, personally. I had Pacquiao winning the first, sixth, ninth (I think) and the twelfth. The rest I gave to Marquez, with no even rounds. So 116-112 to Marquez.

I can appreciate that Pacquiao was throwing a lot more shots in the third, but to my mind Marquez's footwork was so good that he was generally only catching the back end of the shots. I thought the clean, effective work was done almost esxclusively by Marquez. He kept Pacquiao off balance throughout, strung his combinations together much better and always had the outside foot, too; Pacquiao's straight left was giving him nightmares in the early stages of that first fight, but this time out Marquez more or less neutralised it.

I actually think that the fourth fight will be a good one, and very interesting to watch.
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Post by AlexHuckerby on Thu 06 Dec 2012, 12:02 pm

Really good read JBW, I'll rewatch the fights and score them and post up what I got.

One thing I would argue with was the 2nd fight, off the top of my head the opening 2 rounds are without a shadow of a doubt JMM's for me, outboxed Manny and had him wobbled in round 2, Manny never really started until the 3rd with the KD in my view in the 2nd one.

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Post by Valero's Conscience on Thu 06 Dec 2012, 12:20 pm

Nice post,

I've watched all the fights twice throughout and the second time of watching scored them myself.

I remember giving the 1st to Manny by 1 point (10-6 round a huge factor), the second to JMM by 1 or 2 points and the 3rd easily to JMM around 8 rounds to 4 from memory.

I agree that the 2nd fight wasn't a robbery in such that JMM won 10 rounds etc but although it was close I thought the rounds JMM won were quite clear and should of got the nod but wasn't robbed blind as it goes down in history books.

I do however think JMM was robbed good and proper in the 3rd fight.

The clearest indication is after the final bell - look at the difference in the fighters expressions, Manny and his corner 100% thought he lost and Manny looked down and like a man knowing his unbeaten run had eneded. JMM was celebrating and knew he had done enough.

When waiting for the decision to be announced Manny looked very nervous and when his hand was raised and he was lofted high he looked shocked and a little embarrassed.

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Post by BoxingFan88 on Thu 06 Dec 2012, 2:00 pm

I recently re-watched the first fight, I gave Manny the 1st 2nd and I think the 10th and the rest to Marquez.

The second was definitely the closest of the 3 and although I believe Marquez won by a point or 2, but it wasn't a highway robbery.

As for the 3rd fight, it wasn't even close in my opinion, 9-3, 8-4, really can't see any other score.

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Post by eddyfightfan on Thu 06 Dec 2012, 2:54 pm

cant remember the 2nd fight but i had marquez winning. the 1st i gave to manny by 1 point, the knockdowns the difference and the last fight i had jmm about 4-5 rounds clear.

primetime are showing them for free this weekend so ill probably score them over the weekend

i huge manny fan but jmm deserves this fight and im backing him for it

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Post by John Bloody Wayne on Thu 06 Dec 2012, 5:32 pm

@Soldier of Fortune
I can't believe I wasted my time rewatching the first fight, of course it's 10-1-1!

@Chris
Howdy Pilgrim. I'm gonna take another look at rounds people gave to Marquez that I didn't. Obviously it might well end up with it being down to taste, "really? you thought the superior movement of Marquez was enough? I had Pacquiao winning on workrate" hardly being an unlikely response but as I said, I'm all for being proved wrong.

So I'll be taking a look at quite a few from the first fight, we basically agree on the second. The thing with the third is that some of the late rounds were very even and I can see reasons for either man getting it. I'll look at the third round again.

I feel like I'm in the minority but I agree this looks like a cracking fight. Even though the third wasn't a FOTY candidate it was still a damn good fight and I won't mind seeing them go at it again.

@Alex
Yes I remember the right hand left hook that had Manny looking shaky at the end of the second, however I thought a lot of Marquez work was hitting forearms and Manny was landing hard shots more often. I'll take another look though as scoring the first two to Marquez would change my result.

@Valero
Fair enough, although reactions post fight aren't always reliable. Just look at Moorer v Holyfield I. After the bell they both looked dejected and crestfallen!

@BoxingFan
It's looking like the first two fights are seen by most as having arguments either way, and it makes me think there wouldn't be much talk of a robbery in those two if it had gone 1-1 rather than 1-0-1 to Manny.

Looks like I'll be watching the third fight again. First time of watching I had Manny ahead by a point, this time Marquez, so next time maybe I'll have Marquez by two and by the 10th time I've watched it'll be 120-108 Marquez!

@eddy
Yeah that's what I'm hoping, everyone can have a clear card to compare to. With all the talk of robberies in the sport, we rarely see which rounds were actually scored wrong by the judges.

I kind of agree. I prefer Manny to Marquez, partly because I think Marquez' has benefitted off past their best fighters in his career, and probably wouldn't have had the longevity he's got if he'd been in with Morales, Barrera and Hamed in their primes. However I doubt it's his fault he didn't get those fights. Also he does cry robbery whenever he doesn't get the nod. You can say what you like about Manny, but he took the Bradley decision with some humility. Still, Marquez ending his career without a win over Pacquiao would be a shame. Whatever happens I hope somebody really wins this one. I wanna see a knockout!

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Post by WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs on Thu 06 Dec 2012, 11:04 pm

The first fight I gave it 113-112 to Pacquiao on my second view whereas I had it 113-112 to Marquez at first viewing

The 2nd fight I need to rewatch it as haven't seen it for a while but I think I gave it 114-113 Marquez, I'm sure I gave Marquez the verdict

The 3rd I gave it 116-112 Marquez and was pretty confident and have yet to rewatch and rescore it but I thought it was easy enoug to score first time around

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Post by AlexHuckerby on Fri 07 Dec 2012, 1:49 am

Ok JBW, just rewatched all 3 fights (Just for you heart ) and here are my scorecards.

1st Fight
Pac I Mar
1. 10 I 6
2. 10 I 9 20 - 15
3. 9 I 10 29 - 25
4. 9 I 10 38 - 35
5. 9 I 10 47 - 45
6. 9 I 10 56 - 55
7. 10 I 10 66 - 65
8. 9 I 10 75 - 75
9. 10 I 10 85 - 85
10. 10 I 9 95 - 94
11. 9 I 10 104 - 104
12. 9 10 113 - 114

Marquez winner 114 - 113.

Really tight fight in my view, and in truth I don't think Marquez was "robbed" as in my view the fight really could have gone either way, and if you had Manny as a tight winner I can't really argue all too hard, despite me having Marquez as the winner.


2nd Fight


Pac I Mar
1. 9 I 10
2. 9 I 10 18 - 20
3. 10 I 8 28 - 28
4. 10 I 9 38 - 37
5. 9 I 10 47 - 47
6. 9 I 10 56 - 57
7. 10 I 9 66 - 66
8. 9 I 10 75 - 76
9. 10 I 10 85 - 86
10. 10 I 9 95 - 95
11. 9 I 10 104-105
12. 9 I 10 113- 115

Marquez 115 - 113, winner.

I thought this was a hard to score fight and plenty of rounds could have gone either way. Again I had Marquez just edging it, but can't complain too hard if you had Manny sneaking it.

i can't be bothered to put up all my scores for the third fight as most members of the board had this one for Marquez, but I had it 117-113 upon my second watch, I remember scoring it 115-113 to Marquez the first time of watching. Some rounds were very Holly Wilaboobie for tat but I think Marquez solidly did enough to win the fight.

Whilst I had all 3 fights for Marquez I would be more than happy for you to claim Manny won either of the first two as scoring is very subjective and I personally found the rounds very hard to score.

The third fight I felt was a solid Marquez win but I wouldn't begrudge you of having the fight a draw.

So all in all I think the 3 fights are very subjective and difficult fights to score, but I don't think Manny has robbed Marquez blind, although I reckon that Marquezz deserved at least one win on his ledger over Manny.




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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri 07 Dec 2012, 7:38 pm

1st fight............10-1-1 ..........(116-110)

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Post by John Bloody Wayne on Mon 10 Dec 2012, 7:45 pm

I'm still gonna come back to this one and revisit the rounds, but can't see videos right now...

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Post by compelling and rich on Tue 11 Dec 2012, 12:05 pm

i havent re watched them for a long time, but cant argue with your first fight scorecard, i had jmm by one round second if i remember correctly so even then not too much difference.

the only one i would disagree with would be the third in that i had it at least a couple more rounds wider

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Post by Lumbering_Jack on Tue 11 Dec 2012, 12:16 pm

First fight 115-111 Marquez
Second fight 115-112 Marquez
Third fight 116-112 Marquez

Fourth fight I actually had manny up before he got splattered.

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