Fighters who, right now, cannot lose in their weight class

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Fighters who, right now, cannot lose in their weight class

Post by Seanusarrilius on Sun 30 Dec 2012, 4:03 pm

Gun to head, no ifs buts or maybes, which fighters cannot lose in their weight class at this time.

I know that technically anybody can lose. But if you had to pick 5, who would they be.

For me:


Donaire. Too skilled, hits too hard, good chin. Would stop Mares and Rig, IMO.
Golovkin @ 160. Beats Martinez, Quillin and Geale, with energy left to spare.
Andre Ward. Too smart, too dedicated, too talented and too dirty.
Broner, p4p number 1 within 18 months.
Finding a fifth is tricky for me. Wlads chin is always a ?, Cruiser is very competitive as is LH. I am going to drop to Light Welter and say Matthysse, if given a fair deal, beats all. Luca Matthysse is my 5th.

Yours?






Last edited by Seanusarrilius on Sun 30 Dec 2012, 5:49 pm; edited 3 times in total

Seanusarrilius
Moderator
Moderator

Posts: 4827
Join date: 2011-02-15

Back to top Go down

Re: Fighters who, right now, cannot lose in their weight class

Post by Imperial Ghosty on Sun 30 Dec 2012, 4:30 pm

Donaire, Mayweather, Ward, Broner and Wlad

Matthyse had already lost twice at 140lbs and yes I had him losing both in very close fights while Golovkin is simply too unproven to be considered and in reality has only beaten an already beaten Proksa.

Imperial Ghosty

Posts: 10156
Join date: 2011-02-15

Back to top Go down

Re: Fighters who, right now, cannot lose in their weight class

Post by AlexHuckerby on Sun 30 Dec 2012, 4:53 pm

Matthysse is so one dimensional that he without a shadow of a doubt can be beaten, it'll just take a very good boxer. I think Danny Garcia, although perhaps starting as an underdog could outbox him.

I'll be slated for it, but I genuinely think Khan can beat Matthysse if he boxes smart and sticks to a ganeplan, anything could happen in that fight in my view. In the way that Khan fights at times, quite literally anything can happen, so many flash exchanges.

AlexHuckerby

Posts: 8528
Join date: 2011-03-31
Age: 22
Location: Leeds, England

Back to top Go down

Re: Fighters who, right now, cannot lose in their weight class

Post by Seanusarrilius on Sun 30 Dec 2012, 4:58 pm

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Donaire, Mayweather, Ward, Broner and Wlad

Matthyse had already lost twice at 140lbs and yes I had him losing both in very close fights while Golovkin is simply too unproven to be considered and in reality has only beaten an already beaten Proksa.

Broner has only beaten a once murdered by Valero DeMarco, so kind of blows your theory out of the water. We have Broner in cos we know he is class. Golovkin isn't just some hard hitting nobody, check his amateur pedigree, and professional. He is highly developed with subtle technical attributes fans seem to often miss.

Who beats Matthysse at LW? He did not lose to Alexander or Judah either. He beat Alexander by at least two points and Judah the same.


Seanusarrilius
Moderator
Moderator

Posts: 4827
Join date: 2011-02-15

Back to top Go down

Re: Fighters who, right now, cannot lose in their weight class

Post by Seanusarrilius on Sun 30 Dec 2012, 5:00 pm

AlexHuckerby wrote:Matthysse is so one dimensional that he without a shadow of a doubt can be beaten, it'll just take a very good boxer. I think Danny Garcia, although perhaps starting as an underdog could outbox him.

I'll be slated for it, but I genuinely think Khan can beat Matthysse if he boxes smart and sticks to a ganeplan, anything could happen in that fight in my view. In the way that Khan fights at times, quite literally anything can happen, so many flash exchanges.

Khan would be beaten into oblivion by Matthysse, Alex. Garcia would engage and get knocked out too.

Neither of them beat him and Khan would be knocked out in dramatic fashion.

Not saying he is Ali reincarnated, and I know he has limitations, but there isn't a 140 pounder who can beat him, IMO.


Seanusarrilius
Moderator
Moderator

Posts: 4827
Join date: 2011-02-15

Back to top Go down

Re: Fighters who, right now, cannot lose in their weight class

Post by AlexHuckerby on Sun 30 Dec 2012, 5:17 pm

Matthysse is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO overrated it's unreal. I agree that he won both against Alexander and Judah, but only just.

He is not THAT hard a puncher, he is a good puncher with a good engine and fantastic chin, he is incredibly one dimensional, his only tactic is to bully and those types of fighters always get found out after a while.

My view is that a few times out of ten Khan could overcome the pressure and take Matthysse to a decision. He is adding an inside game to his arsenal and actually looked pretty handy on the inside now with Hunter drilling it into him, he has a decent reach advantage and a HUGE speed advantage on him, boxing smart and to a gameplan, staying constantly aware he could beat him to a decision.

Think Garcia has a decent chance to take him aswell, better boxing skills, slightly better handspeed and a decent dig on him, could maybe win by just outlanding him with cleaner, effective punches.

In my view Bradley going back down to 140 would have a fantastic chance to outhustle him also.

AlexHuckerby

Posts: 8528
Join date: 2011-03-31
Age: 22
Location: Leeds, England

Back to top Go down

Re: Fighters who, right now, cannot lose in their weight class

Post by Seanusarrilius on Sun 30 Dec 2012, 5:32 pm

AlexHuckerby wrote:Matthysse is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO overrated it's unreal. I agree that he won both against Alexander and Judah, but only just.

He is not THAT hard a puncher, he is a good puncher with a good engine and fantastic chin, he is incredibly one dimensional, his only tactic is to bully and those types of fighters always get found out after a while.

My view is that a few times out of ten Khan could overcome the pressure and take Matthysse to a decision. He is adding an inside game to his arsenal and actually looked pretty handy on the inside now with Hunter drilling it into him, he has a decent reach advantage and a HUGE speed advantage on him, boxing smart and to a gameplan, staying constantly aware he could beat him to a decision.

Think Garcia has a decent chance to take him aswell, better boxing skills, slightly better handspeed and a decent dig on him, could maybe win by just outlanding him with cleaner, effective punches.

In my view Bradley going back down to 140 would have a fantastic chance to outhustle him also.

Khan - sparked by Prescott
Khan - Rocked to his boots by an FAR more limited than Matthysse fighter called Maidana
Khan - hit at will by Peterson, and not because he was on peds
Khan - flattened by Garcia
Khan - tagged regularly by a Lightweight called Molina

Sorry Alex, but Matthysse is too tought and fires very good straight punches that would devastate Khan, not to mention body shots. Call hima bully if you want to simplify his skills, fine. Bully is exactly what he would do to him. Khan might have handled a limited Molina relatively well, not surpising really, since Molina is a limited Lightweight

Seanusarrilius
Moderator
Moderator

Posts: 4827
Join date: 2011-02-15

Back to top Go down

Re: Fighters who, right now, cannot lose in their weight class

Post by AlexHuckerby on Sun 30 Dec 2012, 5:34 pm

Your opinion, fair enough, I think that Khan on his night could outbox Matthysse, come through a couple of rough situations and outbox him to a victory being too fast for too many rounds and outworking him.

AlexHuckerby

Posts: 8528
Join date: 2011-03-31
Age: 22
Location: Leeds, England

Back to top Go down

Re: Fighters who, right now, cannot lose in their weight class

Post by Seanusarrilius on Sun 30 Dec 2012, 5:47 pm

AlexHuckerby wrote:Your opinion, fair enough, I think that Khan on his night could outbox Matthysse, come through a couple of rough situations and outbox him to a victory being too fast for too many rounds and outworking him.

I just think at this stage Khan has proven time and time again that he can't do that.

He couldn't stay away from Maidana late on
He couldn't in-fight at all with Peterson
He couldn't stop from allowing his heart to rule his head in Garcia fight

Matthysse KO inside 10

Seanusarrilius
Moderator
Moderator

Posts: 4827
Join date: 2011-02-15

Back to top Go down

Re: Fighters who, right now, cannot lose in their weight class

Post by Imperial Ghosty on Sun 30 Dec 2012, 5:49 pm

Khan boxes smart and he shows Matthyse up, he tries to go to war and gets taken out, the argentine is a flat track bully who's best win was against the tiny in comparison Soto, put him in with a skilled operator who can withstand his bullying tactics and he gets taken apart. Step forward Timothy Bradley or Brandon Rios.

Bit of a difference between being beaten by Hope and Valero don't you think Sean so it's hardly an able counter to my claims that he's beaten nobody. Golovkin looks too slow to really trouble Martinez, he may have the power but as Chavez found out landing it is something different. Worth remembering also that Broner doesn't have a class act like Martinez in his weight class, his closest rival is arguably Ricky Burns, slight difference in class.

Imperial Ghosty

Posts: 10156
Join date: 2011-02-15

Back to top Go down

Re: Fighters who, right now, cannot lose in their weight class

Post by Seanusarrilius on Sun 30 Dec 2012, 5:57 pm

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Khan boxes smart and he shows Matthyse up, he tries to go to war and gets taken out, the argentine is a flat track bully who's best win was against the tiny in comparison Soto, put him in with a skilled operator who can withstand his bullying tactics and he gets taken apart. Step forward Timothy Bradley or Brandon Rios.

Bit of a difference between being beaten by Hope and Valero don't you think Sean so it's hardly an able counter to my claims that he's beaten nobody. Golovkin looks too slow to really trouble Martinez, he may have the power but as Chavez found out landing it is something different. Worth remembering also that Broner doesn't have a class act like Martinez in his weight class, his closest rival is arguably Ricky Burns, slight difference in class.

Your argument is that Golovkin hasn't beaten anyone. Yet you have Broner on the list (as do I) who has beaten only one person of note. You also allude to Proksa, not me, as a fighter who Golovkin might have been given credit for, but Proksa lost to Hope, which to be honest, he didn't. I am just saying that DeMarco has been schooled when he stepped up, and beaten in a manner that most fighters carry with them for the rest of their career. Also, look at Golovkins amateur career please. It's a who's who, and although I don't always see amateur records as hugely significant, but his tells you something.

Golovkins skills, other than his power, aren't always obvious, so I am not surprised if you've missed them Smile

Seanusarrilius
Moderator
Moderator

Posts: 4827
Join date: 2011-02-15

Back to top Go down

Re: Fighters who, right now, cannot lose in their weight class

Post by Seanusarrilius on Sun 30 Dec 2012, 5:59 pm

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Khan boxes smart and he shows Matthyse up, he tries to go to war and gets taken out, the argentine is a flat track bully who's best win was against the tiny in comparison Soto, put him in with a skilled operator who can withstand his bullying tactics and he gets taken apart. Step forward Timothy Bradley or Brandon Rios.

Bit of a difference between being beaten by Hope and Valero don't you think Sean so it's hardly an able counter to my claims that he's beaten nobody. Golovkin looks too slow to really trouble Martinez, he may have the power but as Chavez found out landing it is something different. Worth remembering also that Broner doesn't have a class act like Martinez in his weight class, his closest rival is arguably Ricky Burns, slight difference in class.

Also, saying Khan boxes smart is like saying "if Ted Bundy rememebers not to kill anyone"

Khan would get tagged at some point and then engage as he always does, or get pinned. Matthysse would KO him.

Tim Bradley is a different fighter and would present Matthysse with a huge problem, but he fights at 147 for the mo.

Rios, are you kidding me? He fights one way. Rios v Matthysse would be a shoot-out, plain and simple, and Matthysse is less shopworn

Seanusarrilius
Moderator
Moderator

Posts: 4827
Join date: 2011-02-15

Back to top Go down

Re: Fighters who, right now, cannot lose in their weight class

Post by Seanusarrilius on Sun 30 Dec 2012, 6:01 pm

Really enjoying the debate though guys, only a matter of opinion! Smile thumbsup

Seanusarrilius
Moderator
Moderator

Posts: 4827
Join date: 2011-02-15

Back to top Go down

Re: Fighters who, right now, cannot lose in their weight class

Post by Imperial Ghosty on Sun 30 Dec 2012, 6:08 pm

Matthyse and Golovkin both seem to be the flavour of the month despite doing absolutely nothing and yes I do largely ignore amateur records otherwise we'd have Rigondeaux in at number one. Proksa is the only notable name on Golovkins record and he did despite your protestations lose to a barely european level fighter in Hope, Demarca on the other hand has been one of the top men at lightweight for some time. Do excuse me if I don't GG based on beating substandard opposition.

Imperial Ghosty

Posts: 10156
Join date: 2011-02-15

Back to top Go down

Re: Fighters who, right now, cannot lose in their weight class

Post by Champagne_Socialist on Sun 30 Dec 2012, 6:23 pm

Imperial Ghosty wrote:the argentine is a flat track bully who's best win was against the tiny in comparison Soto, put him in with a skilled operator who can withstand his bullying tactics and he gets taken apart.


People said the same about Garcia and that his only good win was against a past it Eric Morales. He Ko'd Khan.

Champagne_Socialist

Posts: 4961
Join date: 2012-10-20
Age: 27

Back to top Go down

Re: Fighters who, right now, cannot lose in their weight class

Post by John Bloody Wayne on Sun 30 Dec 2012, 7:13 pm

I disagree about GGG and Mathysse doing absolutely nothing. Alexander was seen as a top win for Bradley and is meant to be a big step up for Brook, Mathysse beat him.

Ghosty, didn't you predict Olusegun to beat Lucas without much bother a while back? I know we all make predictions that don't turn out right, that's a part of boxing, but he must've shown some class to make you think he'd walk someone as dangerous as Mathysse. Mathysse was on him from the get go and broke him apart, despite Ajose's tremendous heart.

I'm not saying he's unbeatable, but if you're saying the three most likely guys to do it are
Khan, whose chin is reputably poor and wilts late under pressure. Also unlikely to throw a punch that can dent Mathysse.
Garcia who has come from behind KO over Khan who was winning handily up til then, and a KO over a shot to pieces Morales. Judah, Alexander, Soto and Olusegun impress me more as a list of victims.
Rios, because he's such a virtuoso? Who's to say it wouldn't be Rios who couldn't handle someone able to stand up to him? Personally I'd favour Lucas over any current 140 pounder.

Golovkin knocked out Bute in the amateurs. Clean one punch stuff if I remember correctly. Outpointed Dirrel, beat Andy Lee. Proksa's a diffifcult task for anyone with his awkwardness and offense but Golovkin broke him down quickly enough. He's also been known to beat up Canelo, Quillin, Angulo and Chavez Jr in sparring. Other than Martinez I don't see anybody at 160 beating him. Martinez is getting older, if he slides at all Golovkin could take him.

Saying a guy can't be beaten by anybody in his division isn't necessarily saying they're great, simply better than the rest of their division.

What about Gamboa at super featherweight?

John Bloody Wayne

Posts: 3940
Join date: 2011-01-27
Location: behind you

Back to top Go down

Re: Fighters who, right now, cannot lose in their weight class

Post by Imperial Ghosty on Sun 30 Dec 2012, 7:27 pm

It's more to do with the fact I don't think he's unbeatable at light welterweight, he's not set himself apart from Garcia or Rios in the slightest and there seems to be a myth surrounding him that Judah and Alexander robbed him, they did not, they both close fights. The best thing that ever happened to him was the prior robbery of Kotelnik, who did a far better job against Alexander.

The sensible money would be on Matthyse knocking Khan out but he'll be getting outboxed beforehand while fights against Garcia and Rios could go either way. I'd back Rios to come out on top as he's about as durable and relentless as anyone out there.

As for Golovkin i'd like to see him in with one of the top men at middleweight before passing major judgement on him.

Imperial Ghosty

Posts: 10156
Join date: 2011-02-15

Back to top Go down

Re: Fighters who, right now, cannot lose in their weight class

Post by Seanusarrilius on Sun 30 Dec 2012, 7:28 pm

John Bloody Wayne wrote:I disagree about GGG and Mathysse doing absolutely nothing. Alexander was seen as a top win for Bradley and is meant to be a big step up for Brook, Mathysse beat him.

Ghosty, didn't you predict Olusegun to beat Lucas without much bother a while back? I know we all make predictions that don't turn out right, that's a part of boxing, but he must've shown some class to make you think he'd walk someone as dangerous as Mathysse. Mathysse was on him from the get go and broke him apart, despite Ajose's tremendous heart.

I'm not saying he's unbeatable, but if you're saying the three most likely guys to do it are
Khan, whose chin is reputably poor and wilts late under pressure. Also unlikely to throw a punch that can dent Mathysse.
Garcia who has come from behind KO over Khan who was winning handily up til then, and a KO over a shot to pieces Morales. Judah, Alexander, Soto and Olusegun impress me more as a list of victims.
Rios, because he's such a virtuoso? Who's to say it wouldn't be Rios who couldn't handle someone able to stand up to him? Personally I'd favour Lucas over any current 140 pounder.

Golovkin knocked out Bute in the amateurs. Clean one punch stuff if I remember correctly. Outpointed Dirrel, beat Andy Lee. Proksa's a diffifcult task for anyone with his awkwardness and offense but Golovkin broke him down quickly enough. He's also been known to beat up Canelo, Quillin, Angulo and Chavez Jr in sparring. Other than Martinez I don't see anybody at 160 beating him. Martinez is getting older, if he slides at all Golovkin could take him.

Saying a guy can't be beaten by anybody in his division isn't necessarily saying they're great, simply better than the rest of their division.

What about Gamboa at super featherweight?

I echo echo echo these sentiments, clap Hug thumbsup

Seanusarrilius
Moderator
Moderator

Posts: 4827
Join date: 2011-02-15

Back to top Go down

Re: Fighters who, right now, cannot lose in their weight class

Post by AlexHuckerby on Sun 30 Dec 2012, 7:31 pm

Seanusarrilius wrote:
Imperial Ghosty wrote:Khan boxes smart and he shows Matthyse up, he tries to go to war and gets taken out, the argentine is a flat track bully who's best win was against the tiny in comparison Soto, put him in with a skilled operator who can withstand his bullying tactics and he gets taken apart. Step forward Timothy Bradley or Brandon Rios.

Bit of a difference between being beaten by Hope and Valero don't you think Sean so it's hardly an able counter to my claims that he's beaten nobody. Golovkin looks too slow to really trouble Martinez, he may have the power but as Chavez found out landing it is something different. Worth remembering also that Broner doesn't have a class act like Martinez in his weight class, his closest rival is arguably Ricky Burns, slight difference in class.

Also, saying Khan boxes smart is like saying "if Ted Bundy rememebers not to kill anyone"

Khan would get tagged at some point and then engage as he always does, or get pinned. Matthysse would KO him.


Fair views Sean, I wouldn't say that, however. Khan looked as though he was thinking a lot more for my money in his last fight, when he got tagged slightly he realised what was happening and reassessed himself. He's proven he can box a smart fight against Kotelnik, so he has proven he actually does have the ability to do it when he puts his mind to it.

Looking at the Behind The Ropes episodes Khan genuinely looks as though he is taking Hunter's advice on board now, and really knows and understands (At long last) that he has to be very careful and very smart in there and remain in control of his emotions. People can learn and improve and I think Khan has proven before that he can make massive improvements, going from being knocked out by a club fighter and then becoming a unified world champion.

I would also say that one thing that has been massively missed was that Khan showed an inside game against Molina, you may retort by saying "Yeah, but that was only Molina" however this is really the first time he has ever shown any form of an inside game and he actually looked very good at doing it. Dipped well, positioned himself then threw his punches and was very evasive and difficult to tag.

Perhaps I'm one of the few people who believe in Khan and that he can and will learn from his mistakes and will come back from being written off... Again.

AlexHuckerby

Posts: 8528
Join date: 2011-03-31
Age: 22
Location: Leeds, England

Back to top Go down

Re: Fighters who, right now, cannot lose in their weight class

Post by John Bloody Wayne on Sun 30 Dec 2012, 8:02 pm

Despite the faults he has, Khan's as far from a quitter as they come and looks like a very hard worker. He'll never lose for lack of trying. He's the one I'd be least surprised about beating Mathysse.

Simply put, Garcia doesn't look hard to hit, and what Lucas hits, Lucas destroys. OK that's a bit melodramatic but you get my point.

Right now I can't see Alvarez losing. I know that's quite premature but he's simply a solid all rounder and not likely to stop getting better any time soon.

John Bloody Wayne

Posts: 3940
Join date: 2011-01-27
Location: behind you

Back to top Go down

Re: Fighters who, right now, cannot lose in their weight class

Post by Imperial Ghosty on Sun 30 Dec 2012, 8:06 pm

Does Matthyse really hit that hard?

Judah isn't the most durable guy in the world and managed to get to the final bell unscathed as did Alexander, he had to throw the kitchen sink and more at Olesugen to stop him, will say it he's the most over rated boxer on the planet right now.

Imperial Ghosty

Posts: 10156
Join date: 2011-02-15

Back to top Go down

Re: Fighters who, right now, cannot lose in their weight class

Post by Seanusarrilius on Sun 30 Dec 2012, 8:06 pm

Fair one Alex. He certainly has all the physical attributes needed to be a top fighter at 140. I'm going to need to see him in versus a fighter who knows how to properly capitalize on his weakneses before I accept that he has learned something under Hunter.

Seanusarrilius
Moderator
Moderator

Posts: 4827
Join date: 2011-02-15

Back to top Go down

Re: Fighters who, right now, cannot lose in their weight class

Post by Seanusarrilius on Sun 30 Dec 2012, 8:12 pm

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Does Matthyse really hit that hard?

Judah isn't the most durable guy in the world and managed to get to the final bell unscathed as did Alexander, he had to throw the kitchen sink and more at Olesugen to stop him, will say it he's the most over rated boxer on the planet right now.


Funny. Olugsen is tough as old boots, Alexander has never been put down by anyone else as far as I know. He should have stopped Judah but started too slow.

Most overrated fighter on the planet. Ridiculous statement.

Seanusarrilius
Moderator
Moderator

Posts: 4827
Join date: 2011-02-15

Back to top Go down

Re: Fighters who, right now, cannot lose in their weight class

Post by Imperial Ghosty on Sun 30 Dec 2012, 8:14 pm

Despite all this you'd expect him to stop Garcia who himself looks a very durable guy. People make excuses for him and give him wins he doesn't deserve and i'm left wondering why?

Imperial Ghosty

Posts: 10156
Join date: 2011-02-15

Back to top Go down

Re: Fighters who, right now, cannot lose in their weight class

Post by Seanusarrilius on Sun 30 Dec 2012, 8:15 pm

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Despite all this you'd expect him to stop Garcia who himself looks a very durable guy. People make excuses for him and give him wins he doesn't deserve and i'm left wondering why?

Because he actually won the fights that he was not given the results for. That's why. Morales bust Garcia up in their first fight and he was a tenth of his prime self

Seanusarrilius
Moderator
Moderator

Posts: 4827
Join date: 2011-02-15

Back to top Go down

Re: Fighters who, right now, cannot lose in their weight class

Post by John Bloody Wayne on Sun 30 Dec 2012, 8:23 pm

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Despite all this you'd expect him to stop Garcia who himself looks a very durable guy. People make excuses for him and give him wins he doesn't deserve and i'm left wondering why?

What wins doesn't he deserve? What excuses have been made?

John Bloody Wayne

Posts: 3940
Join date: 2011-01-27
Location: behind you

Back to top Go down

Re: Fighters who, right now, cannot lose in their weight class

Post by AlexHuckerby on Sun 30 Dec 2012, 9:00 pm

Think he's talking about people believing he got robbed by Judah and Alexander and overrating him due to that.

For me they were very close fights that you could score either way but I gave Matthysse both fights in my opinion.

But the closeness of a faded Judah and Alexander who doesn't seem to be able to fight pressure fighters doesn't suggest to me a fighter that will blitz everyone in the 140 lb division right now and is unbeatable in his weight class.

AlexHuckerby

Posts: 8528
Join date: 2011-03-31
Age: 22
Location: Leeds, England

Back to top Go down

Re: Fighters who, right now, cannot lose in their weight class

Post by John Bloody Wayne on Sun 30 Dec 2012, 9:09 pm

Alexander's best nights (Maidana, that other guy) have come against pressure fighters. He should be the antedote to Mathysse.

John Bloody Wayne

Posts: 3940
Join date: 2011-01-27
Location: behind you

Back to top Go down

Re: Fighters who, right now, cannot lose in their weight class

Post by AlexHuckerby on Sun 30 Dec 2012, 9:15 pm

His worst against Bradley and Matthysse?

AlexHuckerby

Posts: 8528
Join date: 2011-03-31
Age: 22
Location: Leeds, England

Back to top Go down

Re: Fighters who, right now, cannot lose in their weight class

Post by Seanusarrilius on Sun 30 Dec 2012, 9:25 pm

Just want to say I don't think Matthysse will blit everyone at 140. Just beats them, one way or another.

Seanusarrilius
Moderator
Moderator

Posts: 4827
Join date: 2011-02-15

Back to top Go down

Re: Fighters who, right now, cannot lose in their weight class

Post by TumblingDice on Sun 30 Dec 2012, 9:36 pm

Seanusarrilius wrote:

Khan - sparked by Prescott
Khan - Rocked to his boots by an FAR more limited than Matthysse fighter called Maidana
Khan - hit at will by Peterson, and not because he was on peds
Khan - flattened by Garcia
Khan - tagged regularly by a Lightweight called Molina

Sorry Alex, but Matthysse is too tought and fires very good straight punches that would devastate Khan, not to mention body shots. Call hima bully if you want to simplify his skills, fine. Bully is exactly what he would do to him. Khan might have handled a limited Molina relatively well, not surpising really, since Molina is a limited Lightweight

Hugely agree with that!

Khan is just clinging on to a top 5 spot in his division right now.

I'm not sure about Lucas vs Rios for the title of best at LWW as anything could happen in that fight, it has FOTY written all over it. I'd fancy those guys against Khan and/or Garcia though.

TumblingDice

Posts: 429
Join date: 2011-03-13

Back to top Go down

Re: Fighters who, right now, cannot lose in their weight class

Post by WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs on Sun 30 Dec 2012, 10:34 pm

While Matthysse is beatable I personally don't see him getting beat by any of the current lightwelters excluding Broner (lightweight), Bradley (welter?) or Marquez (welter/retired) for at least this year

Losses to Judah and Alexander were questionable, with Alexander a clear robbery imo but Judah a little harsh but close enough not to be called a robbery although I have him winning both after watching both fights twice. I don't see how Alexander struggles with pressure fighters either. Bradley was a very poor effort but its not like Bradley is your conventional pressure fighter like a Maidana (career best performance) or Urango who are closer stylistically to Matthysse

Judah isnt the toughest of fighters (not overly chinny but lacks heart to grind it out) but it was matthysse first fight outside of Argentina and a huge step up in class. He started slowly but managed to get to judah like cotto did and scored a knockdown but couldn't close it. Since then he has improved and uses his boxing skills more and has got into fights a lot earlier in fights

Lots of good names at lightwelter but none are really heads and shoulders above the others atm. Khan got tagged by a feather fisted lightweight so you can't really say that he has suddenly developed a temperament to box for 12 rounds straight. Wait untill he gets tagged by a lightwelter to see if he reverts to type. Garcia has 1 name on his record and that's khan. Morales was as past it as can be and pushed him very close in the first fight. Garcia is also fighting judah 3 years after Matthysse did so it's not like he's willing to fight the best guys in the division to risk his title

Rios-Matthysse will be great but TopRank and GoldenBoy will get in the way of that fight so thats a non start

WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs

Posts: 2960
Join date: 2011-02-18

Back to top Go down

Re: Fighters who, right now, cannot lose in their weight class

Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Sun 30 Dec 2012, 10:43 pm

Wladimir Klitscho at the moment...............

TRUSSMAN66

Posts: 25608
Join date: 2011-02-02

Back to top Go down

Re: Fighters who, right now, cannot lose in their weight class

Post by Champagne_Socialist on Sun 30 Dec 2012, 11:26 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Wladimir Klitscho at the moment...............

I reckon out of all the fighters who have to fight their mandatory Wlad would have the worst odds out of all of them to bet your money on (meaning he would be the overwhelming favourite to win and you would win the least money if you bet on him).

Champagne_Socialist

Posts: 4961
Join date: 2012-10-20
Age: 27

Back to top Go down

Re: Fighters who, right now, cannot lose in their weight class

Post by John Bloody Wayne on Sun 30 Dec 2012, 11:39 pm

AlexHuckerby wrote:His worst against Bradley and Matthysse?

Aha, touche. I would say this is because Bradley and Mathysse are a higher class of pressure fighter than Urango and Maidana. More well rounded, and their physical gifts are more apparent.

If Bradley were in the 140 pound division and Mathysse wasn't, I'd back him to beat everyone there right now also. Same for Marquez if he's in the same shape he was for Pacquiao.

John Bloody Wayne

Posts: 3940
Join date: 2011-01-27
Location: behind you

Back to top Go down

Re: Fighters who, right now, cannot lose in their weight class

Post by bellchees on Sun 30 Dec 2012, 11:51 pm

1. Wlad
2. Broner
3. Gamboa
4. Ward
5. Donaire

These 5 and in that order. Best two fighters on the list are Ward and Donaire but they are in talent stacked divisions so a loss is more likely for them although I really can't see it happening any time soon.

Wlad, Gamboa and Broner all benefit from being excellent boxers in what are currently 3 very weak divisions so providing they stay put they're not losing for a while.

I can't see how any of the 140lb guys can make the list, they're all good fighters of very similar ability so you'd be looking at a lot of 50:50 fights. If they were to all lock horns no way do any of them leave without a loss. Unless Bradley drops back down as he'll have a bit to much for all of them and will have learned from the Manny fight as well.

bellchees

Posts: 1701
Join date: 2011-02-25

Back to top Go down

Re: Fighters who, right now, cannot lose in their weight class

Post by Boxtthis on Mon 31 Dec 2012, 2:35 am

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Khan boxes smart and he shows Matthyse up, he tries to go to war and gets taken out,.

Khan has shown himself incapable of boxing 'smart' because he doesn't have enough dimensions to his game. Matthyse is a monster at 140, and he'll only be beaten by those upper echelons guys with top level skill, poise, and toughness - guys like Floyd, Manny, Bradley. Khan could beat him if he was allowed his perfect fight, but the Argentine would most likely put on too much pressure. I'd put Matthyse in the same bracket as a Margarito or a Gatti i.e. an absolute nightmare for all but the really special guys.

The guys that no one will beat?

Wlad (he wiped out his closest non related challenger - Haye)
Donaire (too big too good - going to be the future p4p king)
Ward (too good full stop - will probably be Donaires only challenger for that title)

That's it.

Oh, and Floyd (but he'll be retired soon)

Boxtthis

Posts: 1368
Join date: 2011-02-28
Location: Glasgow

Back to top Go down

Re: Fighters who, right now, cannot lose in their weight class

Post by sittingringside on Mon 31 Dec 2012, 9:21 am

The title of the article is fighters that 'cannot lose' in their divisions, I agree that Matthysse has an excellent case for beating all the fighters at 140 but to say that he is a dead cert is going waaay too far for me. Golovkin looks like a real beast at middle, but how can we make him such a huge, huge favourite against Martinez when the Argentine has swept all before him for the last 2 and a half years?

sittingringside

Posts: 415
Join date: 2011-04-27
Location: Scotland/Cornwall

Back to top Go down

Re: Fighters who, right now, cannot lose in their weight class

Post by BallchinianMuffwig on Mon 31 Dec 2012, 9:46 am

I'm just going to throw this out there, Golovkin to me looks kind of beatable. I'd genuinely fancy Dirrells chances against him today (i am fully aware of the amateur history but, complete douchebag or not, an on form Dirrell in the pro's is another story altogether) and was hugely disappointed that Pirog (the forgotten man!) got injured cause I believe that would have been competitive.

BallchinianMuffwig

Posts: 412
Join date: 2011-02-15

Back to top Go down

Re: Fighters who, right now, cannot lose in their weight class

Post by 88Chris05 on Mon 31 Dec 2012, 10:09 am

I'd actually agree that Matthyse is the pick of the Light-Welters right now, and that his performances merit that title. Not invincible at 140 lb, but probably the pre-fight favourite against anyone else at that weight now (unless Marquez comes back down or Broner moves up, neitehr of which are looking likely just now). He's not the most varied or multi-layered fighter, that's for sure, but history proves time and time again that this doesn't disqualify him from trampling all before him.

Alexander wasn't a highway, but a bit of a shocker of a decision all the same. Judah less so, and I could have lived with a draw there, but again there was plenty to applaud in Matthysse's performance. Judah, when he's on song, can pick shots with the best of them and it was actually Zab's best showing against a major divisional rival in years.

He's not going to have a grip on the Light-Welters for years and years like Pryor or Chavez did, but to call him the most overrated fighter on the planet and say that he's done nothing is a bit extreme for my liking.

I think Golovkin is one hell of a fighter, personally. I still think that Martinez might just know a bit too much for him at this stage, but it'll take some fighter to prevent him ruling the 160 lb division with an iron fist once Sergio's gone or slipped a wee bit with age.

Back to the original question, Ward is the clearest candidate, I think. Great ability but, perhaps just as tellingly, he's already chewed up and spat out the best his division has to offer. Donaire still has Mares and Rigondeaux to extend him, but who is going to extend Ward? He's already boxed thirty-three rounds against Kessler, Froch and Dawson, all high-class opposition, and only lost about half a dozen of them. He's had a brilliant three years from 2009 to 2012, but I reckon the next three might be a little frustrating as there's currently a lack of genuine challengers out there for him. Golovkin could maybe move up, but I suspect he's like Hagler in that regard - a Middleweight, through and through.

88Chris05
Moderator
Moderator

Posts: 7726
Join date: 2011-02-16
Age: 26
Location: Nottingham

Back to top Go down

Re: Fighters who, right now, cannot lose in their weight class

Post by aja424 on Mon 31 Dec 2012, 11:42 am

HW- Vitali Klitschko
SM- Andre Ward
MW- Sergio Martinez
LW- Adrien Broner

aja424

Posts: 452
Join date: 2011-03-18
Age: 35
Location: Nottingham

Back to top Go down

Re: Fighters who, right now, cannot lose in their weight class

Post by Seanusarrilius on Mon 31 Dec 2012, 3:10 pm

88Chris05 wrote:I'd actually agree that Matthyse is the pick of the Light-Welters right now, and that his performances merit that title. Not invincible at 140 lb, but probably the pre-fight favourite against anyone else at that weight now (unless Marquez comes back down or Broner moves up, neitehr of which are looking likely just now). He's not the most varied or multi-layered fighter, that's for sure, but history proves time and time again that this doesn't disqualify him from trampling all before him.

Alexander wasn't a highway, but a bit of a shocker of a decision all the same. Judah less so, and I could have lived with a draw there, but again there was plenty to applaud in Matthysse's performance. Judah, when he's on song, can pick shots with the best of them and it was actually Zab's best showing against a major divisional rival in years.

He's not going to have a grip on the Light-Welters for years and years like Pryor or Chavez did, but to call him the most overrated fighter on the planet and say that he's done nothing is a bit extreme for my liking.

I think Golovkin is one hell of a fighter, personally. I still think that Martinez might just know a bit too much for him at this stage, but it'll take some fighter to prevent him ruling the 160 lb division with an iron fist once Sergio's gone or slipped a wee bit with age.

Back to the original question, Ward is the clearest candidate, I think. Great ability but, perhaps just as tellingly, he's already chewed up and spat out the best his division has to offer. Donaire still has Mares and Rigondeaux to extend him, but who is going to extend Ward? He's already boxed thirty-three rounds against Kessler, Froch and Dawson, all high-class opposition, and only lost about half a dozen of them. He's had a brilliant three years from 2009 to 2012, but I reckon the next three might be a little frustrating as there's currently a lack of genuine challengers out there for him. Golovkin could maybe move up, but I suspect he's like Hagler in that regard - a Middleweight, through and through.

Remember folks, this is the Poster of the Year speaking. So when he agrees with me, you can pretty much take it as stone cold proof I am correct. thumbsup king kiss

Seanusarrilius
Moderator
Moderator

Posts: 4827
Join date: 2011-02-15

Back to top Go down

Re: Fighters who, right now, cannot lose in their weight class

Post by AlexHuckerby on Mon 31 Dec 2012, 4:03 pm

He says he's the best in the division and would start favourite but not a dead cert to beat everyone in the division Sean... Seeing what you want to see? :P

AlexHuckerby

Posts: 8528
Join date: 2011-03-31
Age: 22
Location: Leeds, England

Back to top Go down

Re: Fighters who, right now, cannot lose in their weight class

Post by Imperial Ghosty on Mon 31 Dec 2012, 4:23 pm

I think Golovkin will stay at middleweight as well Chris, amateurs who start the pro game quite late very rarely move through the weights and having Ward waiting is enough to put anyone off.

Now Pirog was a fighter I really did rate, the way he took Jacobs about was quite simply breathtaking, he was my pick to rule the middleweights a couple of years back but injuries seem to have halted any progress he was making.

Ward is quite clearly the number one here, as Chris says he's already beaten the best there is in Kessler, Froch and Dawson so who is going to come close to threatening him even at light heavyweight he'll assert his authority pretty quickly.

Imperial Ghosty

Posts: 10156
Join date: 2011-02-15

Back to top Go down

Re: Fighters who, right now, cannot lose in their weight class

Post by 88Chris05 on Mon 31 Dec 2012, 4:51 pm

Aye, Ghosty. Pirog's fallen off the radar a little bit, hasn't he? Can't write him off but with Martinez still going strong and Golovkin improving with each fight it's going to be difficult to get to the top at Middleweight. I wonder if he could perhaps squeeze himself down at 154 lb? Like Proksa, who could make Light-Middle with ease I'd imagine, I did wonder now and then if his frame might be an issue against some of the top guys in or around his weight. He can be outboxed, but his sheer brute strength and power would make him a real force there.

Anyway, that's me done for 2012 - have a good New Years Eve, lads! See you soon.

88Chris05
Moderator
Moderator

Posts: 7726
Join date: 2011-02-16
Age: 26
Location: Nottingham

Back to top Go down

Re: Fighters who, right now, cannot lose in their weight class

Post by Seanusarrilius on Mon 31 Dec 2012, 4:57 pm

AlexHuckerby wrote:He says he's the best in the division and would start favourite but not a dead cert to beat everyone in the division Sean... Seeing what you want to see? :P

He thinks Matthysse has the beating of them. So do I.

Good enough for me Smile

Happy New Year's boy's. Drink plenty and be merry!

Seanusarrilius
Moderator
Moderator

Posts: 4827
Join date: 2011-02-15

Back to top Go down

Re: Fighters who, right now, cannot lose in their weight class

Post by WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs on Mon 31 Dec 2012, 5:12 pm

Golovkin is a naturally strong guy and has freakish power but he isn't actually that big a middleweight and said that he is willing to fight anyone at 154 but doesn't think anyone will fight him there as he will be too powerful for them, and is fighting Rosado at a catchweight of 157/158. He sparred Alvarez not too long ago and they looked fairly similar in size with Golovkin being slightly bigger obviously. He also (according to reports) was alot smaller than Chavez Jr when they sparred yet pushed him about the ring and beat him up

He said he will go up to 168 and given he spars cruiserweights and heavyweights it's not unreasonable to think he will be able to cope with all but the very best. Ward-Golovkin would be a great fight and both are great amateurs who have made good transition to the pro game more so for Ward


WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs

Posts: 2960
Join date: 2011-02-18

Back to top Go down

Re: Fighters who, right now, cannot lose in their weight class

Post by AlexHuckerby on Mon 31 Dec 2012, 6:27 pm

Seanusarrilius wrote:
AlexHuckerby wrote:He says he's the best in the division and would start favourite but not a dead cert to beat everyone in the division Sean... Seeing what you want to see? :P

He thinks Matthysse has the beating of them. So do I.

Good enough for me Smile

Happy New Year's boy's. Drink plenty and be merry!

Hate to be a pedant (I don't, I rather enjoy it...) But the name of the thread is "CANNOT be beaten in there weight class"

Meaning he is pretty much a dead cert against everyone as Broner would be, not just would start as favourite.

AlexHuckerby

Posts: 8528
Join date: 2011-03-31
Age: 22
Location: Leeds, England

Back to top Go down

Re: Fighters who, right now, cannot lose in their weight class

Post by azania on Mon 31 Dec 2012, 7:33 pm

Come on, do me a favour. Lucas looked beating up a blown up SFW and Ajose. He does the fundermentals well, but has no surprise factor. Nothing, nada, zip. A semi decent Khan will expose him for the chump that he is.

azania

Posts: 19471
Join date: 2011-01-29
Age: 102

Back to top Go down

Re: Fighters who, right now, cannot lose in their weight class

Post by AlexHuckerby on Mon 31 Dec 2012, 8:23 pm

Az's back with a bang! Laugh OK

AlexHuckerby

Posts: 8528
Join date: 2011-03-31
Age: 22
Location: Leeds, England

Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum