One reason I now like the UCI!

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One reason I now like the UCI!

Post by Big on Thu 17 Jan 2013, 12:05 am

I had to chuckle when I saw the UCI's response to upset from WADA and USADA that an amnesty wasn't being offered to cyclists coming forward for the review.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/21051947

To paraphrase - If you think you can use this as an opportunity to drag cycling through the mud (again) while willfully turning a blind eye to other sports you can ... off. If you are going to get all high and mighty about this, why don't we find out what's going on across the board?

I think it's safe to say that the ball is very firmly back in Tygart and co.'s court. Interested to see how they respond - do they really want to wage war on doping or do they just want someone to have a stab at and give the impression of doing their job.

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Re: One reason I now like the UCI!

Post by GunsGerms on Fri 18 Jan 2013, 1:18 pm

No amnesty is being offered cyclists because presumably there are too many cyclists that could drag UCI down with them. Its fairly clear at this stage from what Ive read that UCI are embroilled in all of this contraversy. That would explain why they havent exactly been proactive in forcing Lance Armstrong to come clean or anyone else for that matter. You cant bring someone down if they can bring you down with you.

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Re: One reason I now like the UCI!

Post by Azabache on Tue 22 Jan 2013, 12:21 pm

To put all this in perspective, cycling is one of the tougest endurance sports so has always attracted performance cheating.

Whether it is any more "corrupt" than say football is a debatable point. Those prima donnas only have to run around for 90 minutes-average warmup time for cyclists. Is the player caught with traces of a snort of the white stuff more or less guilty than the cyclist found with infinitesimal traces of [name the substance]? Even accepting that the substance may be part of ingenious masking of others...?

And what influence does the £200K per week player have over the disciplinary bodies? And his vociferous, knighted manager? The number of cyclists having that sort of clout and backup is minute. Just one or two.

Or one...hey, what an easy target. Forget complicated investigations into specific sports-just select a person, put the blinkers on and go to it.

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Re: One reason I now like the UCI!

Post by GunsGerms on Tue 22 Jan 2013, 1:07 pm

Azabache I actually think that football is the most corrupt, dirty sport in the world. It ceased being a sport a long time ago. There is way too much corruption, hoolaganism, racism, cheating, match fixing, bribing, money in general in football for it ever to fit even a loose definition of sport. I would much rather watch cycling even if it is still dirty. That said I still think the UCI have a lot of questions to answer.

I really dont like Lance though. He is the type of scumbag who doesnt care who stands in his way he will mow them down. He should apply for Sepp Blatters job, he would fit in nicely with Fifa.

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Re: One reason I now like the UCI!

Post by Azabache on Tue 22 Jan 2013, 1:51 pm

If Lance had been English, though, we would be lauding him as the new, really tough, single-minded, ruthless competitor that we need to win.

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Re: One reason I now like the UCI!

Post by GunsGerms on Tue 22 Jan 2013, 2:19 pm

Azabache wrote:If Lance had been English, though, we would be lauding him as the new, really tough, single-minded, ruthless competitor that we need to win.

I certainly wouldnt anyway because for a start I'm not English. I'm Irish and we dont really celebrate our drugs cheats at all. For example former Irish winner of the TdF Stephen Roche doesnt exactly have a squeaky clean reputation in Ireland.

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Re: One reason I now like the UCI!

Post by Big on Tue 22 Jan 2013, 3:52 pm

Azabache wrote:If Lance had been English, though, we would be lauding him as the new, really tough, single-minded, ruthless competitor that we need to win.

I'm not convinced we would. I don't think there are that many people taking that view with Dwayne Chambers for example, and it's taken Millar a long time to win back the trust and respect of the English/British cycling community (and there are some that will never like him). In Britain (and Ireland) the public is pretty good at being against doping. I lived in other countries where the general public really couldn't give a monkeys about atheletes doping.

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Re: One reason I now like the UCI!

Post by Azabache on Tue 22 Jan 2013, 4:14 pm

SPA*N for one!

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Re: One reason I now like the UCI!

Post by djlovesyou on Tue 22 Jan 2013, 7:22 pm

Azabache wrote:If Lance had been English, though, we would be lauding him as the new, really tough, single-minded, ruthless competitor that we need to win.

You're kidding right? The British sporting public hate cheats - if someone as high profile as Lance got caught in this country (Ennis, Farah, Wiggins, etc), they would have to leave the country. The backlash against them would be absolutely monumental.

Lance is lucky he comes from a country where a large portion of the country believe in fairy tales, and a country where a huge number of people love a zero to hero story. He'll make a lot of money getting tearful and 'righting his wrongs', and end up a hero among the dimwitted masses again for 'facing his demons'. In this country he would get the middle finger and that's about it. As much as they pretend they are, Dwain is still not really accepted - even Christine O isn't really accepted and they're not nearly as high profile.

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Re: One reason I now like the UCI!

Post by Azabache on Wed 23 Jan 2013, 12:37 pm

Maybe here an odour is always hanging round the miscreants, whilst in America it turns into an aura!!!!!

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Re: One reason I now like the UCI!

Post by GunsGerms on Wed 23 Jan 2013, 1:02 pm

djlovesyou wrote:
Azabache wrote:If Lance had been English, though, we would be lauding him as the new, really tough, single-minded, ruthless competitor that we need to win.

You're kidding right? The British sporting public hate cheats - if someone as high profile as Lance got caught in this country (Ennis, Farah, Wiggins, etc), they would have to leave the country. The backlash against them would be absolutely monumental.

Lance is lucky he comes from a country where a large portion of the country believe in fairy tales, and a country where a huge number of people love a zero to hero story. He'll make a lot of money getting tearful and 'righting his wrongs', and end up a hero among the dimwitted masses again for 'facing his demons'. In this country he would get the middle finger and that's about it. As much as they pretend they are, Dwain is still not really accepted - even Christine O isn't really accepted and they're not nearly as high profile.

Lindford Christie is still very well respected in the Uk even though he was a drugs cheat.

There are plenty of other disgraced athletes that have restored/retained their reputation in the UK:

Lawrence Dallaglio, dealt* and consumed drugs. *unconfirmed that he dealt them.
Matthew Stevens. Drugs
Rio Ferdinand. Skipped drugs test.
Lindford Christie as mentioned

I wouldnt say any of these guys are "hated" would you?


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Re: One reason I now like the UCI!

Post by djlovesyou on Wed 23 Jan 2013, 1:10 pm

Recreational drugs don't really count. People tend to see that as a silly mistake and are easily forgiven.

Linford is an outcast in terms of the actual athletics fraternity. He's not really accepted at all.

Football doesn't really count either, Rio skipped a drug test, but how many football fans actually give a hoot about anti-doping?

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Re: One reason I now like the UCI!

Post by GunsGerms on Wed 23 Jan 2013, 1:13 pm

Terry Newton, RIP, rugby league wasnt a hated man by any means.

Also David Millar British cyclist came back from a two year ban to represent GB at the 2012 Olympics. Nobody seems to mind that a former drugs cheat was on the same team as Wiggins and Cavendish at the 2012 Olympics.

All in all I think that there are most certainly opportunities for redemption in the UK for drugs cheats.

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Re: One reason I now like the UCI!

Post by GunsGerms on Wed 23 Jan 2013, 1:18 pm

djlovesyou wrote:Recreational drugs don't really count. People tend to see that as a silly mistake and are easily forgiven.

Linford is an outcast in terms of the actual athletics fraternity. He's not really accepted at all.

Football doesn't really count either, Rio skipped a drug test, but how many football fans actually give a hoot about anti-doping?

Recreational drugs do count because they are on the banned substance list. Cocaine could potentially for example be used to boost confidence and enhance ones mental approach to a game. Important strengths when you are a leader in a team like Dayglo. Its very difficult to quantify the effects it has on different people but in some people it could increase aggression and reduce fear. He admitted to being on it during one of the Lions tours.

Christie is is still a hero to many in Britain. forget about the athletics fraternity we are talking about the general public.

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Re: One reason I now like the UCI!

Post by djlovesyou on Wed 23 Jan 2013, 1:26 pm

GunsGerms wrote:Terry Newton, RIP, rugby league wasnt a hated man by any means.

Also David Millar British cyclist came back from a two year ban to represent GB at the 2012 Olympics. Nobody seems to mind that a former drugs cheat was on the same team as Wiggins and Cavendish at the 2012 Olympics.

All in all I think that there are most certainly opportunities for redemption in the UK for drugs cheats.

Yep, there was an out-pouring of sympathy and support for Terry Newton - but it took his suicide for that to happen. Quite a price for redemption to be fair.

David Millar did compete in the Olympics but the majority of sports fans were against removing the by-law stopping convicted dopers from competing. His presence in the team wasn't really attack as they had bigger fish to fry (Dwain) but it was hardly celebrated. If you're on the fringes of sporting fame like Millar, your return is generally met with ambivalence rather than hatred.


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Re: One reason I now like the UCI!

Post by Big on Wed 23 Jan 2013, 2:25 pm

djlovesyou wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:Terry Newton, RIP, rugby league wasnt a hated man by any means.

Also David Millar British cyclist came back from a two year ban to represent GB at the 2012 Olympics. Nobody seems to mind that a former drugs cheat was on the same team as Wiggins and Cavendish at the 2012 Olympics.

All in all I think that there are most certainly opportunities for redemption in the UK for drugs cheats.

Yep, there was an out-pouring of sympathy and support for Terry Newton - but it took his suicide for that to happen. Quite a price for redemption to be fair.

David Millar did compete in the Olympics but the majority of sports fans were against removing the by-law stopping convicted dopers from competing. His presence in the team wasn't really attack as they had bigger fish to fry (Dwain) but it was hardly celebrated. If you're on the fringes of sporting fame like Millar, your return is generally met with ambivalence rather than hatred.


Worth also pointing out that he was only really allowed in the team as a supporter rider. There's absolutely no way they'd have had him going for a medal, that would have caused too much trouble. And that's not a reflection on his ability as a rider, the breakaway on the road race course would have been very well suited to him, not to mention the time trial.

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