2012/13 Premier League discussion thread part 3

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Post by Guest on Sun 20 Jan 2013, 3:49 pm

First topic message reminder :

Let the talk, arguments, disagreements and bickering continue...

I really fancy a Spurs win today.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Tue 26 Feb 2013, 8:14 am

You are never getting Hero's Holla ever!

(It hurt, but no goal will ever hurt like Gerrard in 2006 in the cup final. I didnt watch that game for years)

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Post by Stella on Tue 26 Feb 2013, 8:15 am

Great goal for a neutral though chris Very Happy
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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Tue 26 Feb 2013, 8:22 am

Bale's maybe, I'm pretty sure everyone wanted us to win in 2006!

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Post by Stella on Tue 26 Feb 2013, 8:34 am

chris.wilkerson13 wrote:Bale's maybe, I'm pretty sure everyone wanted us to win in 2006!

I was talking about Gerrard's. Wasn't to worried who won the 2006 final, tbh, but it was a great game.
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Post by The Special Juan on Tue 26 Feb 2013, 9:27 pm

I know this doesn't belong here but Barcelona have been well and truly outplayed tonight.
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Post by Guest on Tue 26 Feb 2013, 9:30 pm

Barcelona been playing appaling for the last few weeks. Totally outplayed tonight, clinical Madrid and once again Ronaldo outshines Messi with ease.

Mourinho does it again and always leaves with a trophy. Add to the Copa Del Rey to that list. Astonishing

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Tue 26 Feb 2013, 9:32 pm

Yep! Nice to see Ronaldo completely mugging off Pique too. World's best defender my arris.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 26 Feb 2013, 9:35 pm

There just isnt enough directness and tempo to Barca's play. They also get crossing opportunities and just turn back into the clogged up middle.

Frustrates the heck out of me watching. Sometimes there just isnt a way through the middle against a well drilled talented side
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Post by Guest on Tue 26 Feb 2013, 9:36 pm

I also hope people start to realise Xavi is nowhere near the same player he was a couple of years ago. It's a shame but he can't control games anymore, physically it's not there. A.C Milan will go there and be confident, it's nowhere near being impossible to get results at the Nou Camp. If Mourinho can somehow get past Man Utd then the unthinkable could well and truly be on.

The Special One could be 'Very Special' come the end of May.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 26 Feb 2013, 9:38 pm

If Madrid play like this at Old Trafford, well, United could be in for a long night.

Devastating pace on the counter
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Post by The Special Juan on Tue 26 Feb 2013, 10:00 pm

A couple of things I noted...

Iniesta was really poor tonight for the first time since......... ages. I don't count him as a typical playmaker the way I'd say Xavi is but he definitely helps them tick and when he's off, any team he's in is off.

Real won't play like that at Old Trafford because they can't. Utd won't hog the ball all game like Barca do and I think it'll be up to Real to create their own chances rather than attack Utd on the counter. Plus, Utd will play much better than Barca did tonight.

Oh, and Messi should leave for Utd because Barcelona are a sinking ship :coughingsmiley:
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Post by Guest on Tue 26 Feb 2013, 10:03 pm

Is this the case of another world class manager, Guardiola, understanding when to leave a club, similar to the main man himself Mourinho. It's not all about the top players moving clubs, it's even beginning to role over to management nowadays, especially in an era of short managerial lifespans and trigger happy owners. Tonight's result just enhances Guardiola's reputation doesn't it, or am I just over-reacting to tonights result, I mean Barcelona are streaking ahead in the La Liga under Tito.

Mourinho left Porto & Inter after winning the Champions Leagues because he knew his time was up and indeed the squad's time was up. Guardiola has done the same. He must of known deep down that players like Puyol, Mascherano, Xavi & Villa were declining at a fast rate. Mourinho understood this too at Inter with Cambiasso, Maicon & Milito. It's very clever management and is the key to building a strong reputation in the game and the reason there the two most demanded managers currently.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 26 Feb 2013, 10:07 pm

I think you may be reading a little too much into tonight's result John, I think it's more down to the loss of Tito personally. It's gotta hit the team hard, plus his interim doesn't really seem to know what he is doing imo
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Post by Ent on Tue 26 Feb 2013, 10:11 pm

Does he need to Olly? Most of that team have won multiple league titles, cls, world cups and European championships.

They should be able to perform without a coach, the coach is just there to motivate them really and by all accounts they are training hard unlike in rikjards last days.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 26 Feb 2013, 10:14 pm

Ent wrote:Does he need to Olly? Most of that team have won multiple league titles, cls, world cups and European championships.

They should be able to perform without a coach, the coach is just there to motivate them really and by all accounts they are training hard unlike in rikjards last days.

Of course he needs to. Every team needs a manager to guide them.
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Post by GSC on Tue 26 Feb 2013, 10:19 pm

Eh, the drive has clearly diminished. It had in the end of Pep's reign and his book alludes to that he didnt feel he could make the difficult decision to drop a few.
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Post by Ent on Tue 26 Feb 2013, 10:29 pm

Granted Alves and piqué are more interested in partying but like I said they've an experienced squad full of world class winners, the manager isn't going to do much if they are already fully motivated.

If they aren't training properly or are fatigued then fair enough, a manager sensibly rotating the team and getting them in shape would help.

I think it's more likely that a few of their legs are going and feeling the fatigue of a long season than the manager missing.

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Post by GSC on Tue 26 Feb 2013, 10:33 pm

I'd say its more they've lost the drive that made them the best. Yes the players are world class but theres no longer the will to be legendary.

It won't get to the state of Rikjaards team, the players have too much respect for the institution, unlike a few players who just took the urine, a la Ronaldinho and that Mexican CB.

Rather than turning up and playing the other team, they began to turn up and expect to win because they were Barca.
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Post by Duty281 on Wed 27 Feb 2013, 8:35 pm

FreekShow wrote:
Ent wrote:De Guzman is the penalty taker, dyer shouldn't have even got involved.


I agree.

Whilst it's old news now, apparently De Guzman wasn't the designated penalty taker, he just took the pen because he was the player fouled.

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Post by Ent on Wed 27 Feb 2013, 9:10 pm

Duty281 wrote:
FreekShow wrote:
Ent wrote:De Guzman is the penalty taker, dyer shouldn't have even got involved.


I agree.

Whilst it's old news now, apparently De Guzman wasn't the designated penalty taker, he just took the pen because he was the player fouled.

Naughty, naughty if true.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 27 Feb 2013, 10:19 pm

Henry Winter ‏@henrywinter
Benitez on #cfc fans: "They are wasting time with their banners and songs. They don't need to worry about me. I leave at end of the season'

Henry Winter ‏@henrywinter
Benitez fuming in press conference here: "These Chelsea fans have an agenda. These Chelsea fans are damaging the image of the club' #cfc

Henry Winter ‏@henrywinter
Benitez: "I'm experienced. I've won the Champions League, the Spanish league twice, the FA Cup. They (fans) are a group with an agenda''

Henry Winter ‏@henrywinter
Benitez says #cfc fans 'must get behind the team or they will be in the Europa League next season'

Benitez speaking his mind. Good on him. That second tweet I totally agree with.
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 27 Feb 2013, 10:23 pm

Henry Winter ‏@henrywinter
Benitez: "Why put 'interim' in title? Why did they need to do that? Maybe they (board) thought: 'He was at Liverpool so we put 'interim' in'

Ahh it's good to have Rafa back. The winter seems to tip him over the edge haha
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 27 Feb 2013, 10:25 pm

One would imagine Mr Benitez may not be Chelsea manager or "interim" manager much longer.
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Post by The Special Juan on Wed 27 Feb 2013, 10:26 pm

They're both at fault (admittedly the Chelsea fans are about 90% at fault). Good to see Rafa giving them a piece of his mind though Laugh
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Post by NickisBHAFC on Wed 27 Feb 2013, 10:28 pm

#ToysOutOfThePram

However i do love it when a manager speaks his mind, i must admit.

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Post by The Special Juan on Wed 27 Feb 2013, 10:33 pm

picard Sportsday

"Chelsea lose 2-1 at Motherwell."

If they did that then it certainly is #BenitezOut time!!
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Post by GSC on Wed 27 Feb 2013, 10:33 pm

Good on Rafa. Taken it manfully up to now. Chelsea fans a bunch of spoilt brats
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Post by spencerclarke on Wed 27 Feb 2013, 10:35 pm

Rafa appears to have done his second 'keegan'. 5live predicting he will be gone tomorrow. Itsbeen a mess since they got rid of di matteo. Makes for great viewing though

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Wed 27 Feb 2013, 10:37 pm

The problem with this being that every time Benitez speaks his mind he just comes across as an out of control naughty naughty boy. Theres no brains behind a move like this, theres reasoned passion and then theres attacking fans and claiming the team will suffer markedly for it. People talk about psychology in football, they underestimate the psychology of the managers words in press conferences

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Post by The Special Juan on Wed 27 Feb 2013, 10:37 pm

Who do they get in though? Steve McLaren? Steve Kean? They've fired pretty much everyone who's anyone. And before any mentions it, Moyes would never work at Chelsea. He doesn't play the football Roman wants.
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 27 Feb 2013, 10:38 pm

chris.wilkerson13 wrote:The problem with this being that every time Benitez speaks his mind he just comes across as an out of control naughty naughty boy. Theres no brains behind a move like this, theres reasoned passion and then theres attacking fans and claiming the team will suffer markedly for it. People talk about psychology in football, they underestimate the psychology of the managers words in press conferences

It's pretty clear imo that he has been told he is off, so has just spoken his mind. Fair play
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Post by NickisBHAFC on Wed 27 Feb 2013, 10:43 pm

I can see why Chelsea fans are angry and good on them for there continued support shown to club legend RDM. Too call them selfish brats is a bit of a head scratchier as the decision made my there chairman was a complete joke and they should continue to express their frustration.

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Post by User 774433 on Wed 27 Feb 2013, 10:44 pm

They should be angry at Roman... not boo Benitez during games.

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Post by GSC on Wed 27 Feb 2013, 10:45 pm

They are brats. The only reason they're upset with current standards is Romans cash to begin with. Let them have their Chelsea back, roman can take the trophies
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Post by Crimey on Wed 27 Feb 2013, 10:51 pm

Benitez has been treat horribly and was never going to be a success when he is booed the moment he first arrives at the club. The fans were fickle and have just as little respect from the rest of the footballing world as Abramovich does.

Sacking Di Matteo may be considering wrong, but to boo Benitez for that was nonsensical and I believe has damaged the season. How are the players supposed to play and work for a manager that the fans continuously disrespect.

I think Benitez should be applauded for refusing to stand for being treat so awfully by the fans, it might be seen as unprofessional but when the board has shown no faith or support for him in the face of serious adversity why should he act professionally for them.

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Post by CFCNick on Wed 27 Feb 2013, 11:01 pm

Benitez was treated bad because of his history against Chelsea. If hes' so upset about the way he's being treated why is he happy to sit there getting paid to take abuse. Benitez being booed has absolutely nothing to do with Robbie being sacked. The boos are 50/50 of against Rafa and against the decision to sack Robbie.

We all knew Robbie was gonna go at the first blip though. Roman was never gonna make him the boss but then was strong armed by the public and the club to "do the right thing" and appoint him. It was the way Robbie went though. Even AVB and Avram Grant had more time with a worse record.

I hope he's shown the door in the morning rather than held onto until the end of the season. The sooner we get this chapter of the club's history out of the way with the better.

Benitez is just another Avram Grant.

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Post by spencerclarke on Wed 27 Feb 2013, 11:04 pm

Problem then though jay is who gets the job as it would only be another interim til the end of the season.

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Post by Crimey on Wed 27 Feb 2013, 11:05 pm

The booing has achieved nothing though. It was unlikely Benitez was going to be given a full time contract at the end of the season anyway, barring winning the league. All it has achieved is disrupted the current season and left Chelsea worryingly on the edge of Champions League qualification again.

I think it's no coincidence that Chelsea's home form took a huge turn for the worse when Benitez was appointed, because the boos were so much more prominent at home. Neither is it a coincidence that the players don't have confidence in Benitez with the fans booing.

It's very similar to the AVB situation where the Chelsea fans hounded out a good manager. The players hear the boos from the fans and the players like Lampard and Terry seize the initiative and the moment and use it to their advantage.

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Post by Crimey on Wed 27 Feb 2013, 11:08 pm

MockingJay33 wrote:Benitez is just another Avram Grant.

Except that Benitez has an excellent record across England and Spain. He won the league title with Valencia when Barcelona and Real Madrid were exceptionally strong. He took Liverpool from a side struggling to qualify for Europe every year to a team who was extremely close to winning the Premier League and one of the best sides in Europe. He had a bad time in his last year (Hicks and Gillet probably more to blame) and his time at Inter was a disaster but following Mourinho is a hard task.

Avram Grant had no experience in top-level European football or big star players.

There is a huge difference there.

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Post by Crimey on Wed 27 Feb 2013, 11:08 pm

spencerclarke wrote:Problem then though jay is who gets the job as it would only be another interim til the end of the season.

John Terry?
Roman himself?

They're probably the only two people who could be confident of keeping the job until the summer...

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 27 Feb 2013, 11:13 pm

In hindsight Avram Grant didn't do too badly at Chelsea! One slip away from winning the Champions League, and came 2nd in the league!
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Post by spencerclarke on Wed 27 Feb 2013, 11:15 pm

Rafa was a very good manager but for me I dont think he has ever really been the same after he lost it in his rant against ferguson. Different reasons behind that one but things have been going down hill since. I personally think he should have gone to a smaller club than chelsea and rebuilt a bit first. I could only see an interim role ending badly.

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Post by CFCNick on Wed 27 Feb 2013, 11:15 pm

The fans weren't like this for AVB. I liked him and wanted to give him more time. Robbie only got us Champions League glory by setting the team how Mourinho and Ancelotti did it. AVB's style didn't work with that particular squad. I'm not gonna deny Rafa is a good manager and most likely a good bloke but he should never have set foot into the position. It's as much the boards fault as much as the fans. We are in a mess like when Scolari left, when Mourinho left, when Ancelotti left and when Ranieri left. Only Hiddink has parted ways on good terms. I think if we can't get Jose back the fans favourite would be Hiddink.

It's hard to defend the club but people attacking us fans is wrong. We are behaving like every other fan base does when they're disgruntled. Newcastle did it for years. Charlton did it when they were playing poor and so have Man Unted fans and Arsenal fans have just started booing there own players. We're not the first and definitely won't be the last.

Just watching the highlights show on itv4, Andy Townsend having a go about the interim title, because he's there until the end of the season. Again, Rafa is not the first ever interim manager. He's got a bad rep from us from his Liverpool days. Every other interim manager in the history of the game have done the job and got on with it.

A lot of all that has gone wrong at Chelsea stems from the appointment of Michael Emenalo. He's a cancer in the background at the club.

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Post by spencerclarke on Wed 27 Feb 2013, 11:16 pm

Olly I think also in hindsight though judging by what he has done since that chelsea season may have been more down to the squad he had left rather than his management skills

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Post by User 774433 on Wed 27 Feb 2013, 11:16 pm

Olly wrote:In hindsight Avram Grant didn't do too badly at Chelsea! One slip away from winning the Champions League, and came 2nd in the league!
Chelsea fans will still be against him though, as he didn't win them any trophies.

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Post by CFCNick on Wed 27 Feb 2013, 11:20 pm

I wasn't comparing the two records Crimey. Just the situation they waltzed into and then weren't very popular in the stands.

Olly, the JT slip in hindsight is probably better than him scoring it. Avram would have been around for longer. He didn't have what it took in big games. The best team he beat in his spell was Liverpool. He's also the only Chelsea manager to lose a game in 90 mins in the FA Cup since April 2006.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Wed 27 Feb 2013, 11:32 pm

If hes off then fair play, but then he takes no credit from me for speaking up after the event. How brave the man who can take lots of flak for a lot of money and only speak his mind when the pot runs dry.

He put himself in a position he knew he would get sh*t from. They have history, and hes not the impressive manager like Mourinho or Ferguson where you would respect the past but move on, he always comes across as childish. I dont hate him, hes done some quite lovely things up in the Liverpool community, but he cant handle the English press and spits his dummy out.

Benitez has a good lot of flaws as a manager too. Some would argue he lived off the back of Houllier's long term planning at Liverpool, plus the acquisition of Fernando Torres.

I'm not a fan. The aftermatch of his spells at Liverpool and Inter indicate he is no genius too, although thats rather subjective. I look down on him for not winning the league with Liverpool that year. Torres and Gerrard were the revelation of the season and he couldnt manage them into it from a strong position. He cracked under pressure from United and Fergie, thats a blotch on his record too.

Also, Avram Grant is an awful manager. I dont fancy RDM to be up to much either, but Grant is the only manager at West Ham I have got out of my seat and screamed at during open play, hes a clueless moron

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 27 Feb 2013, 11:47 pm

Thing is with this so called "rant" tonight, Rafa is spot on with what he is saying...
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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Thu 28 Feb 2013, 12:16 am

Oh, granted he is pretty right, he just always has to do it with some sort of breakdown. Hes still yet to attack the man we all know is to blame.

I dare them to give Di Canioa trial. Now that would be fun

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Post by CFCNick on Thu 28 Feb 2013, 7:50 am

Benitez is incredibly childish. After getting booed in his first game he then wore a red tie in his 2nd. As I said above I hope he's goes sooner rather than later.

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