The v2Forum Hall of Fame discussion thread

[Shelsey93]

First topic message reminder :

The thread to debate additions to the v2Forum Cricket Hall of Fame

Current members:
http://www.606v2.com/t18388-606v2-cricket-hall-of-fame-inductees-graphics-included

FoF's original HoF debate summation:

Spoiler:

Following on from Gregers' idea to implement our very own Hall of Fame at 606v2, here is the thread where all the deliberating will take place.

As you know, there is a Hall of Fame already set up by the ICC, though looking through it there are some names in that list which are debateable as to whether they really belong in such company. That, then, is up to us to decide. Let's make our Hall of Fame elitist in every way, ensuring that only the most worthy of candidates are elected.

I propose that we elect 30 founder members of our Hall of Fame before the voting gets underway - whose position in cricketing history we can all agree on. Remember, this Hall doesn't have to only include players but can include managers, figureheads or anyone else that we feel has had a significant impact upon the sport to deem them worthy of a place.

In order for a candidate to gain election to the Hall, they will need a yes vote of 75% or more. Anything less will see them fail to get in. Every candidate must be retired from the sport, and no currently active players will be considered.

Once our initial 30 members are agreed upon I suggest that we consider 10 more per month, working our way through the current ICC Hall of Fame and casting our own votes as to whether those names should belong in our own elitist Hall of Fame here at 606v2. Voting for each 10 candidates will run from the 1st of the month, when those names will be posted, until the last day of the month, when the votes will be tallied.

When we have exhaused those names in the current ICC Hall of Fame, there will be an opportunity for our members to decide upon the next group of 10 nominees that aren't currently in the ICC Hall of Fame, but may be worthy to be considered for our own (i.e. those that have recently retired such as Gilchrist etc).

My suggestion for the inaugural 30 is as follows. It is intended that these be the 30 very best and uncontroversial inductees, so please put forward any suggestions that you may have as to possible changes to this list, before we get started. We need to get the right names in this initial 30. In no particular order:

1) Don Bradman 2) Ian Botham 3) Sydney Barnes 4) Sunil Gavaskar 5) W.G Grace 6) Jack Hobbs 7) Richard Hadlee 8) Imran Khan 9) Malcolm Marshall 10) Garfield Sobers 11) Shane Warne 12) Muttiah Muralitharan 13) Viv Richards 14) Clive Lloyd 15) Keith Miller 16) Andy Flower 17) Brian Lara 18) Bill O'Reilly 19) Wasim Akram 20) Glenn McGrath 21) Michael Holding 22) Richie Benaud 23) Adam Gilchrist 24) Allan Border 25) Curtly Ambrose 26) Dennis Lillee 27) Frank Worrell 28) Victor Trumper 29) Kapil Dev 30) Jim Laker
So, let me know your thoughts and possible changes to this 20, and then we will get on with the business of the first ten names that are up for nomination. Any questions let me know.

Previous debate:
http://www.606v2.com/t17447-the-606v2-cricket-hall-of-fame-part-1
http://www.606v2.com/t21577-the-606v2-cricket-hall-of-fame-part-2#831213
http://www.606v2.com/t28256-the-606v2-cricket-hall-of-fame-part-3
http://www.606v2.com/t37142-the-v2forum-cricket-hall-of-fame-discussion-thread-part-4#1671498



Right, voting for the current round will close on Sunday - 10am.

Here are my votes:

Charlie Turner - Clearly Australia's stand-out bowler of the pre-World War I era. Yes, he may have had financial issues. But they don't really influence my perception of him as a cricket. He left Tests slightly early but was at an age by which many bowlers of later eras were worn out by. It must also be considered that a tour then consisted of months on a boat so playing international cricket too often was never going to help you financially (amateur game of course). YES

Bill Johnston - I said earlier that he was certainly a serious candidate. But sadly I can't quite find it in me to vote Yes for him. Firstly, he had a few too many poor series. Secondly, he seems very much to have been the third man in a top notch attack. To get in as an unsung hero he probably needed to have played a few more than 40 Tests.

Hugh Tayfield - Very similar sentiments to those I had with Johnston. Of course, it is in Tayfield's favour that he's SA best spinner. But I don't think he was a great - more of an important cog in a decent team. Has probably suffered from not having someone champion his case. NO

Makhaya Ntini - A very good bowler on his day, but it wasn't always his day and he wasn't in the class of a lot of his contemporaries and near contemporaries. His role as an icon is indisputable, but isn't sufficient to get him in the Hall in my view. Only time can tell if he can make a difference. NO

[kwinigolfer]

Sorry to see that one of HOF Candidate Fred Titmus's great rivals, tho' not for the HOF, has died.
John Mortimore, who was the very essence of the top flight County Cricketer (and I mean in a very positive way, unlike those who wish to cast aspersions). Three "doubles", almost 16,000 runs, 1,800 wickets in a line-up that, for much of the time, also contained David Allen.

[guildfordbat]

Kwini - sorry to hear of John Mortimore's death. Unfortunately, I (and I fear I'm not alone) best remember him in a similar way to how many think of Malcolm Nash being put to the sword by Garry Sobers. I refer to that televised Gillette Cup semi-final from the early 1970s when Lancs' David Hughes plundered 24 runs off an over from Mortimore to snatch victory as the clock neared 9 o'clock in the evening and darkness descended.

Nonetheless, still very much ''the very essence of the top flight County Cricketer'' as you say in a tribute that I fully understand and appreciate.

[kwinigolfer]

guildford,
I hadn't remembered that Mortimore was on the receiving end of the Hughes onslaught.
In a small way, that was one of the early "milestones" of one day cricket.
David Hughes, probably one of the last Wisden Cricketers of the Year who was a true County man. Used to love watching him play.

[guildfordbat]

guildford,
I hadn't remembered that Mortimore was on the receiving end of the Hughes onslaught.
In a small way, that was one of the early "milestones" of one day cricket.
David Hughes, probably one of the last Wisden Cricketers of the Year who was a true County man. Used to love watching him play.

Absolutely. In its own smaller way, that over from Mortimore to Hughes was comparable to the one from Nash to Sobers. Mortimore's over - or rather the destruction that Hughes inflicted -was ground breaking in showing how a run rate (although we didn't know that term then) could be recovered. I don't know if that was then the most runs scored off a single over in a limited overs game; it probably wasn't but it was still exceptionally unusual at the time. It really caught the public's attention, particularly as it was shown live on tv with other programmes being shelved as play went beyond the expected finish time in the darkening gloom. A real treat and happy memories, although probably not for Mortimore!

[msp83]

We seem to be like England in the recent Ashes!. Any chance of a South Africa like turn around?
I would like someone to initiate a bit more discussion on Marsh. I've had a look at some of the earlier debate, they are interesting, I would hope for a bit more.......

[guildfordbat]

Msp - I admire your Rogers-like tenacity.

I really need to go through your admirable posts and attachments in support of Kirsten and will do so. Just hope I won't be alone - you and your candidate deserve better.

I also haven't forgotten about your 'folk hero' query as to Titmus. I've dug up something, not that relevant but may raise a smile. Will post soon.

Marsh appears to be suffering (as he did first time out, just like Thommo) from having no one prepared to fight his corner. I gave Marsh a narrow YES last time and will look to repeat why. I doubt that my own view will alter but, equally, there probably won't be enough there to change the minds of previous NO voters who are still around. All a bit of a shame which I think is where msp came in ....

[msp83]

Lets hope Guildford, that we are not left alone here.

[kingraf]

I could vote yes for Marsh - given a convincing enough case - a hall of fame isn't supposed to be (imho) a All-time XI, but rather a place for cricketers/managers who have left the game in a better place. Think Stallone getting into the boxing hall of fame. I know this is at odds with me not voting for Titmus, but I just don't think his impact was large enough

[kwinigolfer]

Happy Birthday to HOF'er John Arlott: 100 yrs old today!

[guildfordbat]

Kwini - the perfect excuse for a large glass of the red.

[kwinigolfer]

Indeed guildford, tho it's not my customary 6.00 a.m. tipple.

[guildfordbat]

Indeed guildford, tho it's not my customary 6.00 a.m. tipple.

Yes, but it is for Arlott.   

[Guest]

come to a halt again..

[kwinigolfer]

If there was a Hall Of Fame for slip-fielding alone, Philip Sharpe would be a Charter Member.
Sad day for one of post-war England's least athletic-looking Test Cricketers.

[Corporalhumblebucket]

If there was a Hall Of Fame for slip-fielding alone, Philip Sharpe would be a Charter Member.
Sad day for one of post-war England's least athletic-looking Test Cricketers.

Very true. Phil was magnificent slip fielder.

[Shelsey93]

A few Hall of Famers make my rundown of county comebacks - http://deepextracover.com/2014/05/31/county-cricket-comebacks-the-successful-the-romantic-and-the-failed/#.U4pFE16y_t1

[kingraf]

So uh, we try again.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Watching the Bradman thing on Sky, and it still baffles me how this one guy is just so far ahead of the pack in terms of average and runs (imagine how many he'd have scored if WW2 hadn't happened!!)

It's something I'll never ever get me head round

[kwinigolfer]

I hadn't realised that the ICC Hall Of Fame was inducting three cricketers in 2015, having drawn a blank in 2014.

Martin Crowe and Anil Kumble are the lucky ones who will have to hone their speech-making skills, the first ones to do so since Adam Gilchrist, Debbie Hockley, Bob Simpson, Shane Warne and Waqar Younis in 2013. Betty Wilson is also among the 2015 generation, a posthumous honour.

Still think they're joining the Football League HOF in focussing almost exclusively (now anyway) on relatively recent retirees; a commercial imperative they must think, but they definitely run the risk of forgetting stalwarts of the past.
Which was one of the points of this thread!

[kwinigolfer]

I see we've lost a v2 Forum HOF candidate of threads gone by:

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/cricket/34025818

[kwinigolfer]

Shocking to hear of Martin Crowe's death . . . . . . . . .

Not the "lucky one" any longer . . . . . . . .

[wisden]

used to enjoy this thread..

[kwinigolfer]

And another fringe HOF player tips his cap and enters the pavilion in the sky: Seymour Nurse, elegant middle order batsman, wonderful cover fielder, unsung but vital member of the Sobers-era teams.

[guildfordbat]

Kwini - given the pushing and shoving I had to do to get Kanhai and Greenidge through the door to the Hall of Fame, I wasn't going to attempt the same for Seymour Nurse. Nonetheless, a very fine West Indies cricketer of the 1960s who, by general consent including Sobers, retired from Test cricket too early. I noticed that the often under rated Desmond Haynes also paid tribute to Nurse yesterday.

[kwinigolfer]

Kwini - given the pushing and shoving I had to do to get Kanhai and Greenidge through the door to the Hall of Fame, I wasn't going to attempt the same for Seymour Nurse. Nonetheless, a very fine West Indies cricketer of the 1960s who, by general consent including Sobers, retired from Test cricket too early. I noticed that the often under rated Desmond Haynes also paid tribute to Nurse yesterday.

Was thinking there might be a nice tribute on the BBC web-site, but not a single mention that I can find. Pathetic.

[Corporalhumblebucket]

Belatedly, sorry to hear that Seymour Nurse has retired to the celestial pavillion. Names from that great era for West Indian gradually taking their leave.

[kwinigolfer]

[quote="Corporalhumblebucket"]Belatedly, sorry to hear that Seymour Nurse has retired to the celestial pavillion. Names from that great era for West Indian gradually taking their leave.  [/quote


Including today's news that Basil Butcher is joined Seymour Nurse in that celestial pavilion . . . . . . Out at 86.

[dummy_half]

Belatedly, sorry to hear that Seymour Nurse has retired to the celestial pavillion. Names from that great era for West Indian gradually taking their leave.  [/quote


Including today's news that Basil Butcher is joined Seymour Nurse in that celestial pavilion . . . . . . Out at 86.

Not a player I'd heard of prior to this (I'm a bit young - can vaguely remember Kalicharan, and obviously names like Sobers and Kanhai, but mainly the late 70s onwards WI team). Anyway, 86 is a fairly decent innings...

One of the quirky cricket stats I like - Butcher played 44 Tests, and took 5 wickets with his occasional leg spin. His best bowling figures? 5-34. All his wickets came as a Michelle in one innings...

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