2013 World Snooker Championship Part II

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Post by The Special Juan on Sun 05 May 2013, 10:00 pm

First topic message reminder :

Moving the conversation here..... Come on Barry! Boo him!!!
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Post by The Special Juan on Thu 09 May 2013, 1:00 pm

That's one of the best things about snooker; most of the players seem like genuinely nice people. Ok you get the few oddballs like Hann (who's ban expires next year) but the majority of them seem decent enough.
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Post by Guest on Thu 09 May 2013, 1:01 pm

Quinten Hann back in snooker? Watch out ladies Shocked

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Post by Kenny on Thu 09 May 2013, 1:02 pm

Davis gave me some advice .............................stop trying to kill the balls , power isn't everything
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Post by The Special Juan on Thu 09 May 2013, 1:03 pm

Watch out Mark King!! I think he's enjoying his pool these days.
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Post by Kenny on Thu 09 May 2013, 3:29 pm

i was suppose to be playing pool tonight , but feel crap so its a night watching the darts instead
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Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 09 May 2013, 7:48 pm

Azzy Mahmood wrote:Naturally not, but it's fun to discuss it Smile

I have no problem with people backing Hendry, dissing Ronnie, dumping on Carter, bigging up the world's biggest loser (Jimmy), anything. Snooker is a really great sport, and I love the passion that fans have for it. My favourite player ever is Alain Robidoux, part of me truly hates Ronnie for what he did to him Laugh

Sorry Azzy you need educating. White the world's biggest loser?Do you wish to look at his career stats? He won a total of 28 events (ten of them ranking) was four times runner-up in the world's against two of the greatest players to play the sport - Steve Davis and Stephen Hendry. Hardly hallmarks to label him the world's biggest loser - also he played a huge part in making snooker popular with youngsters when he burst on the scene so his influence on the sport has been huge. Three losses against Hendry was not unusual for any player of that time as plain and simple Hendry was unbeatable.

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Post by Guest on Thu 09 May 2013, 8:00 pm

Wow, as if I didn't know he was actually a good player...

I'll amend my statement of ridicule to 'world's biggest choker' instead OK

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 09 May 2013, 8:03 pm

Choker? Sorry go check out the word in a dictionary before bandying it about. He was denied world titles simply by legends of the sport - no choking there. Besides at least he sees matches out to the end and doesn't walk out of matches. OK
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Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 09 May 2013, 8:13 pm

By this I mean a choker does not win 28 titles n their career if they are a choker.
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Post by Guest on Thu 09 May 2013, 8:16 pm

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/osm/story/0,,641727,00.html
The 10 greatest chokes in the history of sport: 7 - Jimmy White
World snooker final, Sheffield, 1994

This would surely be Jimmy White's year. The Whirlwind had lost in five world finals - including the first four of the 1990s - but now, in the tightest of showdowns against his nemesis Stephen Hendry, victory was just a few pots away. A 75 clearance by White had taken the score to 17-17 and in the deciding frame he had a straightforward black off the spot to put the championship beyond Hendry's reach. 'It was a bread-and-butter pot for someone of Jimmy's class,' said one veteran observer, 'but he missed it by so much that it could only have been a choke.'

http://www.skysports.com/interactive/top_tens_story/0,25722,15881_6865713,00.html
Jimmy White, World snooker final, 1994
The Whirlwind had the country cheering him on in every one of his six unsuccessful final appearances at the Crucible, where he put himself in the driving seat more than once. In 92 he led Stephen Hendry 14-8 before freezing and losing ten frames on the bounce to go down 18-14, but two years later he had glory in his grasp at 17-17 and in the balls, before missing a routine black off the spot by miles to throw away another Crucible dream.

Just two of the many pieces on Jimmy's famous choke job, which was the 6th World Final he lost. People called Andy Murray a choker and he was facing the world's best ever players in Nadal and Federer.

You'd call losing six finals an achievement. I'd call losing six finals a choke job, a bottle job and a major disappointment. Regardless of how his career looks on paper, if you speak with Jimmy about his life, you'll see the tears in his eyes. He knows he choked and it kills him.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 09 May 2013, 8:26 pm

Yes people called Murray a choker and were proven wrong. And in your first instance - a bit off the mark I reckon. White broke down on a break not even at 40 so was still nowhere near the winning line. In any case the frame before he was on the brink and hit a top break of 75 under severe pressure - hardly the hallmark of a choker. So you can look at those things various ways.

And on second link it claims White 'froze' well did Ronnie freeze as well when Dott won ten frames (I think it was ) on the bounce in the 2006 World Semi?
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Post by VTR on Fri 10 May 2013, 9:28 am

Been following this debate and I thought I would rewatch the final frame of the 94 final after all this years. White played some fantastic shots and was only about 10 ahead when he missed the black (so that phrase from the Guardian about putting it beyond Hendry's reach is wrong).

Following that Hendry made a very good clearance including 3 reds to the middle pocket that were tough (he has to be the best middle pocket potter ever - unbelievably good). He also nearly missed a pink with the rest that would have been as bad as Jimmy's black so it just shows the fine margins and pressure on both players when matches get to that stage.


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Post by CaledonianCraig on Fri 10 May 2013, 9:38 am

Spot on VTR. Obviously, the newspaper were on a mission to create an article on choking but were off the mark. White did so much for the sport of snooker hence he is known as 'The People's Champion' and the greatest player never to win the world title. I cannot see Ali Carter and Barry Hawkins ever getting close to his standing in the sport for a number of reasons.
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Post by VTR on Fri 10 May 2013, 9:47 am

I can't really see him ever being surpassed as the person with that unwanted accolade "greatest to never win the world title". He won everything else in his career and was very consistent reaching 5 finals in a row, just happened that in most of those he was up against the greatest player ever. I'd say 92 was his best chance but Hendry played probably the best session of snooker ever to take those ten frames in a row.

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Post by Guest on Fri 10 May 2013, 9:51 am

Part of all this is because the British public love a 'loser', and no matter his achievements, most people in this country will recognise Jimmy as the guy who kept on losing.

Can we really speculate as to the impact Jimmy had on previously-non-snooker fans? I'd expect that players such as Higgins, Stevens and Taylor had as much draw for non-snooker fans as Jimmy, so did Jimmy truly have a big impact on snooker following or did he just make it more exciting for those existing fans?

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Fri 10 May 2013, 9:54 am

During a look at the 90's on the Beeb coverage Hendry shone light on what made him tick and so tough to beat. He had a mental attitude that he owned The Crucible and he would not be beaten there and on rare occasions he did lose he was gutted and felt he had been robbed - in short a winner's mentality. Ronnie on the other hand is far less comfortable with success it seems.
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Post by CaledonianCraig on Fri 10 May 2013, 10:03 am

Azzy only to people who followed snooker annually would say White was some sort of a serial loser. Fans of the sport recognise he won 28 titles and most of the top titles, stands high in most records lists and famed for his cavelier style of play.

Steve Davis has alluded to the importance of Jimmy White to promoting the sport and making it trendy amongst the young generation. They could identify with and admire him. As for other impacts he had on the sport he was one of the pioneers of attacking snooker introducing shots screwing into the pack of reds to develop the break etc. So you see - far removed from a choker or serial loser.
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Post by Guest on Fri 10 May 2013, 10:05 am

I know that and you know that, but does the Average Joe know that? Fact is, Jimmy White will forever be known as one of sport's biggest chokers, despite his achievements.

I was really hoping he's beat Milkins this year, was gutted he lost.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Fri 10 May 2013, 10:12 am

No the fact is he is recognised as the greatest player to never win a world title. And when is the Average Joe's opinion worth anything as they aren't hard core snooker fans with knowledge of the sport. So he will forever be recognised by those in the know and fellow pros past and present as a great talent and the greatest player never to win the world title.
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Post by The Special Juan on Sat 11 May 2013, 12:08 pm

Andy Hicks has been relegated off the tour Sad He hated Hann.
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Post by The Special Juan on Sun 09 Jun 2013, 3:29 pm

King Higgins beats Ronald in Bulgaria. Just sayin' Wink
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Post by Guest on Mon 10 Jun 2013, 9:51 am

Speaking of the Bulgarian Open, the BBC report on it says:

- Higgins won £21,240 by clinching the title
- Ronnie picked up £5,100 for reaching the final four

I am an amateur snooker player who hasn't played in 4.5 years, and I can tell you, even I wouldn't fly 3 hours to Sofia to play in a tournament in a dingy hall to earn £5k. I'd rather stay at home with my family. Even the £21k Higgins won isn't that much.

Hearn is ruining snooker with these pointless tournaments.

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