Murray Officially Withdraws From French Open

Just announced.

http://www.tennisnow.com/News/Andy-Murray-Withdraws-from-Paris-with-Back-Injury.aspx

Hope it's only the French but i somehow doubt it will be

I think he has to look at his game. He's either got problems coping with the rotation he's putting into some shots (forehand?) or it's something else.

It's also this huge muscle packed 6'3 frame chasing down balls like 5'9 Ferrer. He's not making his size and power count in shortening ralleys. Comes back to the Murray guile/variety discussion we had a while back. Murray's natural game wasn't to be a grinder, he would move guys around all over the court and bring them in, frustrate them and then pull the winner. He's got to fine tune his tactics and be more aggressive because he's doing too much lunging and running at the moment. It's not even like he's played much clay court tennis in 2013 really, just 13 sets.

Interesting point on the forehand.

As I recall, one of the first things Lendl changed was the forehand.

It's obviously become a more effective shot but I wonder if something has gone amiss technically during the change?

His frame is also an interesting discussion point. To me, there are two possible issues:

1) The frame he has built is markedly different to his natural frame. Genetically, I think he would naturally be a skinny guy, similar to Novak in some ways.

Sometimes in sport there can be problems if people deviate too far from their natural build. The strength to weight ratio changes, the range of movement changes, the forces on the body change.

Perhaps something has gone out of balance here?

2) Lydian's point about style of play has some merit I think. Andy's retrieval is comparable to Novak but he's doing it without Novak's flexibility and with greater muscle mass. That must take its toll after a while.

This is all pure speculation of course! But given that it appears to be an attritional injury (as opposed to something going 'snap'!) that has been around for months, it seems like it may be a small issue just being worsened by repetition and general wear and tear.

Yes it was also a good comment by BB. This was an interesting 2012 article that stated Murray had to learn the DTL FH.

http://www.essentialtennis.com/atpnews/commentary/the-changing-game-of-andy-murray/3151/

Lendl worked Murray's FH over relentlessly to get the DTL shot working, plus get more power on the shot generally. Murray loves the CC FH so changing to DTL more may have caused him to stop rotating fully so he's ending the rotation abruptly. If he's doing this 1000s of times in practice, not matches, when its not a naturL movement for him it could perhaps lead to a lower back issue. He never looks smooth to me when moving to the FH and then executing the shot, he kind of severely comes up on the shot half way through the swing so wonder what this does to him as well. When this is combined with extra gym work etc its a lot of pounding. It's needs a good biomechanical assessment.

Agreed HMM, Murray just isn't a silken mover like Djokovic who is almost nearer a gymnast than a tennis player. Nadal also has unreal natural movement ability in a different way, his footwork is staggering (the way he can run around BHs at times to hit DTL FHs when there wasn't apparent time) and is something people don't realise with him. Federer similarly so. All the Big 3 are naturally gifted movers...the best always are, inc. Sampras.

However, Murray has been trying to artificially catch up with these guys through a modicum of movement ability but with added sheer power because he doesn't have the natural smooth movement or feet skills the others have. As you say HMM deviating away from your core attributes and build is a huge risk down the track. I maintain he's too big and playing too much like a grinder with that size. He's having to hit too many FHs and BHs and move unnaturally through power all the while to maintain it all. He's got to look at his tactics and overall approach causing its seemingly killing his back - just like it did to Mecir. It might not need much of a tweak but he's got to reduce the rallying, which if he can is good because he doesn't need the muscle as much either. Look at Federer, he doesn't need the muscle. Murray should naturally be nearer Federer than Nadal but he's always set Nadal as his benchmark. That's been his problem biomechanically - kind of backing the wrong horse.

For the record, I don't think Murray has necessarily become a muscle man. He's just changed a lot from his natural build.

None of the other top players have changed much physically over their careers.

Rafa and Tsonga are muscular but have always been that way. It's a natural build.

Novak has always been lean. Del Potro is tall and lean, Berdych is tall and of broader build. None have changed much over the years.

But compare Andy to about 5 or 6 years ago and he's a different man!

I don't really have a judgement as to whether this is right or wrong but it's easy to see the scope for difficulties arising.

These things can be deceptive.

For example, we can see that Rafa and Roger are the same height (although there are times when Fed seems a teeny bit taller) but you would tend to assume that Rafa must be the heavier - even though muscle mass does not of itself indicate pure weight. Interesting that they are listed on ATP official stats as precisely the same : 85kg. Not sure how often those stats are checked/updated.....

The injury stems, I firmly believe, in having to generate pace on forehand shots on clay. The surface pace means that he is having to generate more pace on his forehand and if you watch his action he really swings through the ball. I am no technical expert but I would say he makes contact with the ball and his upper body follows through on the shot - if that makes sense.

The problem doesn't arise or at least doesn't surface on faster courts where there is no need to generate so much pace on the ball.

As an aside, I've seen some (tabloid ) gossip that Andy & Kim will walk up the aisle later this year, very possibly after Wimbledon.

I doubt it myself .... would have thought a mid-season wedding is far too much of a distraction. But who knows ......

Hang on - Murray's getting married after withdrawing? Don't people usually get married after the guy forgets to withdraw?

Naughty innuendo JHM (perhaps acceptable from sleazy posters, but unbecoming of a respected Mod .....)

JuliusHMarx wrote:Hang on - Murray's getting married after withdrawing? Don't people usually get married after the guy forgets to withdraw?

Wasn't he a half-decent French tennis player?

You're right lydian.

Though I doubt that too many of today's generation would actually remember Forget

Indeed lags.

I remember Guy saying when looking back on his career "More than specific memories of achievements, for me I remember the feeling you get when you were just at your very best - when you felt like you were floating across the court and could put the ball wherever you wanted".

It must be amazing to have been a top pro (he was ranked top 5 at one time) from a sheer skills perspective. Any of these guys would still be an unreal player up to 60 yrs old for county doubles matches, etc, especially when you have the easy serve and volley skills of someone like Forget, Sampras, Rafter, Henman, etc.

Anyway re: Murray, good points CC. He does try to inject more pace on clay but his movement is the issue too. Because he arrives late on shots but needs to hit them hard he's often rotating from a weird position, I'll see if I can find a pic of what I mean. Its this jarring action and unnatural movement at the best of times that's getting to him I feel.

Sensible move from Murray. Needs to stay away from the red stuff, the movement required does him no good at all.

Here's a couple of things:

In this first shot - he's got model FH preparation when he's in position. Fine, no problem at all.




However, this 2nd shot is a common situation Murray gets into on clay. He's been caught short of time, e.g. wrongfooted or just slow at arriving. Because he doesn't slide to the ball like Nadal, Djokovic or Federer he uses raw power instead to get nearer and lean across to the ball from a front on position. As he's got no sideways rotation at all he's having to generate power by bending into the shot and using backlift through the swing.


Bending over constantly from 6'3' and using backlift to get power when stretched is a disaster waiting to happen really. I don't know what the answer is because for him this is an inituitive movement. He may have to simply forego clay events before RG, i.e. do what hardcourters Sampras/Agassi used to do which was pretty much enter RG and nothing else. Its not worth ruining his grass/HC seasons for.

Might be worth noting this is the first slam Murray has missed since 2007. Considering he was considered to be a tad susceptible to injury when he first came onto the scene Id say that he has actually managed his body incredibly well and had very few spells out of the game.

Yes but he's 26 now, not 20. You can carry niggles and get by when you're young and elastic. Its around this age that real issues you've been carrying start to stop you dead in your tracks...e.g. Nadal.

This is another of the similar FH shots of Murray stretching out wide

He often looks off balance on clay, stretching all over the place, having to get power without a stable base.

Finally, look at this pic.


Look at the size of those legs and hamstrings. The sheer amount of gym work to build and sustain that probably puts a lot of strain on his lower back as well.

Again, this pic illustrates how he's always lunging for FHs - ok, they're snapshots in time but its such a common pose for Murray to strike when playing, that back is getting bent over all the time in those extended ralleys he pursues. He puts that huge, powerful frame through the mill constantly. He's a great athlete make no mistake, but he's making what is now a 100m sprinter frame do the steeplechase each match. Steeplechasers aren't built like Murray. Even Nadal isn't that tall or big if you look at him properly.

lydian wrote:Here's a couple of things:

In this first shot - he's got model FH preparation when he's in position. Fine, no problem at all.




However, this 2nd shot is a common situation Murray gets into on clay. He's been caught short of time, e.g. wrongfooted or just slow at arriving. Because he doesn't slide to the ball like Nadal, Djokovic or Federer he uses raw power instead to get nearer and lean across to the ball from a front on position. As he's got no sideways rotation at all he's having to generate power by bending into the shot and using backlift through the swing.


Bending over constantly from 6'3' and using backlift to get power when stretched is a disaster waiting to happen really. I don't know what the answer is because for him this is an inituitive movement. He may have to simply forego clay events before RG, i.e. do what hardcourters Sampras/Agassi used to do which was pretty much enter RG and nothing else. Its not worth ruining his grass/HC seasons for.

Lydian. Just looking at that 2nd picture and I felt a little twinge in my back... Ouch! If like you say this is a common movement Murray will have a few back problems. He's not going to change now all he can do is what he's doing at the moment. ie taking some time out when play becomes difficult to rest.

This is the element I find interesting.

This is Djokovic from USO 2008. Much the same physically (and identical in the hair cut! ).


This is Andy from the same tournament. Look how much skinnier he is!

And from Wimbledon of the same year:


Andy really has changed his physique over the years.

Yep HMM. Jamie Baker his oft-training partner calls him "a tank".
Not hard to see why these days, he's a very impressive "specimen" but its a large frame to lug around into constant awkward positions.

A little off-topic but as you mention awkward positions, this is just madness!:

I'm wonderfuly underwhelmed by this news and do wonder why everyone seems to be fussing about Murray's stance / power / movement

Apparantly, now he's not in the same league as his 3 rivals and "backed the wrong horse" with whom he (alegedly) chose to copy

Which still delivered 9 Masters a Slam and numerous late slam appearances

In addtion, his movement seemed pretty OK when he was getting to the Wimbledon final, beating Novak and Roger at the Olympics and outlasting Novak at the US Open

I show complacency, in the interests of balance!! Such an injury is a worry - but so is Rafa's knees and Novak's ankle

Oh us little minions fussing around hey...lol. So your argument is that all is well, nothing to worry about, the guy has won stuff anyway. Fair enough. However, clearly you see him in the same league as the Big 3 even though he's 3 slams short of the next nearest on grass/hard slam count alone. Murray has looked up to Nadal ever since that racquetball incident when he was 15, moving to Barcelona to train on clay after they met. Nadal was the measure by which Murray judged his success, most know that who have followed him for years.

As a result he increasingly trained like a Trojan to perform for hours on clay-like conditions. However, was it all really needed when he's not adept on clay?
This article in Jan 2013 - http://www.scotsman.com/news/scottish-news/top-stories/pumped-up-andy-murray-aims-to-muscle-in-on-grand-slam-rivals-1-2726029 - said he added 3 lbs more muscle over December 2012 alone having "doubled his weekly weightlifting sessions". Is it any wonder he's had a herniated disc since 2011 - exacerbated by glitches in his FH technique/movement on clay since.

lydian wrote:Fair enough. However, clearly you see him in the same league as the Big 3 even though he's 3 slams short of the next nearest on grass/hard slam count alone.

Just to be a pedant - he's actually 5 slams short of the next nearest!

Yes across all slams, but 3 short of Nadal on grass/hard as stated

lydian wrote:Yes across all slams, but 3 short of Nadal on grass/hard as stated

Whoops! It still surprises me that Nadal has won 'only' 4 slams outside of RG.

Aye HMM...he's got to the finals of 5 more though!
Plus now missed at least 5 more through injury.

Tough decision to make for Murray. W should be where he comes back.

PS: Who gets Nadal, who gets Ferrer? Fun times.

I bet Murray took one look at the weather forecast and thought, to quote Chris Tucker, "Oh hell no". Rain today, Friday, Saturday, none on Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday.