Liverpool Thread: Road to thinking we might get top 4, only to feel stupid at the end of the season

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Post by Crimey on Wed 05 Jun 2013, 2:52 pm

First topic message reminder :

Transfer ins:
Kolo Toure (free transfer from Manchester City)

Transfers out:
Danny Wilson (free to Hearts)
Jamie Carragher (free to Sky)
Peter Gulacsi (free to Salzburg)


Last edited by Crimey on Fri 07 Jun 2013, 8:06 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Kenny on Sat 24 Aug 2013, 11:35 pm

1 shot on target 1 goal , but a win is a win
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Post by Crimey on Sun 25 Aug 2013, 10:04 am

Mignolet: 7

Thought he put in a much better performance today with some really good saves, only wobble was the mis-controlled back-pass and think it's obvious he really needs to work on using the football with his feet because Reina was one of the best in the world for that and he needs to work hard to get better.

Johnson: 6

Didn't seem to be able to join the attack as much because he was fearful of the counter attack, defensively he was okay but a lot of Villa's attacks did start on the right side of the defence.

Toure: 5

Seriously could have cost us the game, diving everywhere trying to head the ball, clambouring over people, generally doing dangerous things in the box, running out of position. A mistake waiting to happen, thought he did well at Stoke but think now he's lost that extra yard of pace, I'm not sure how good he's going to be at centre back, especially considering his height. Either use Skrtel or sign a new centre back please.

Agger: 7

Thought Agger marshalled the defence really well, was calm and collected on the ball and restricted Benteke to having very little to deal with. Nice to see him put in some crunching tackles as well, a real vice-captain's performance.

Enrique: 8

Thought Enrique was excellent in this game, probably had a big reason to do with Cissokho being signed and putting his place under pressure because this might be the best game he's had for us. Defensively he was a rock, not allowing Weimann any space and being ridiculously strong against challenges, he also offered a bit more attacking-wise than Johnson did, using the space Coutinho left very well.

Lucas: 7

Thought Lucas played very well, he was extremely busy in the second half but managed to control Villa's midfield well not allowing them any room or any easy passes, constantly hounded and tackling and putting people under pressure. Would like him to improve when it comes to actually being on the ball, but defensively he was good apart from the booking.

Gerrard: 6

Failed to really get a hold of the game or really exert his influence on proceedings. No real good passes or shots or joining in the attack and defensively didn't seem to offer as much either. I am sure he'll grow into the season as he did last year, and hopefully United will give him that extra boost.

Henderson: 7

I really like Henderson, he's not a glamorous player but what he does for the team I don't think anybody else could. The formation is so fluid that Henderson ends up playing winger, attacking midfielder, defensive midfielder, right back all at once and putting everything into it every time. He's got a great engine, good passer, good crosser and seems to be growing at being able to nick the ball off of people as well. Really impressed.

Coutinho: 6

Not one of Coutinho's finest performances, did find space quite often despite Villa's best efforts but never really used it well. Think the hype might have gone to his head a bit, was always trying the extraordinary with speculative passes when he could have gone for more simpler options.

Iago Aspas: 5

Disappointing today, thought he was good at Stoke and got involved a lot but against Villa he may as well not have been there. All he seemed to do was give silly fouls away in dangerous areas. Attacking wise he didn't offer enough, sometimes I felt he came too deep looking for the ball because Sturridge was already deep. Early days though.

Daniel Sturridge: 8

First half he was excellent, seemed to be involved with everything and took his goal superbly. Second half he was feeding off scraps but played important defensive duties and actually should have won a penalty for the side despite having very little to deal with. He's growing on me, slowly but surely I'm starting to think he could be a top forward for Liverpool.

Substitutes:

Cissokho: 7

Very good, came on when Villa were pushing on and offered a lot of pace and power down the left to great effect, he'd pick the ball up and just run down that left side and not let himself get pushed off of the ball. Imagine his best position will be left back, but good to see he could be used to offer some width.

Allen: 6

Back from injury, not sure whether attacking midfield is where he's best used considering how easily he is pushed off of the ball. A lot of running, no real product. Not really his fault.

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Post by Crimey on Sun 25 Aug 2013, 10:07 am

Notts County on Tuesday, want to see almost a totally new XI apart from Aspas who I think needs the confidence.

Jones

Kelly Skrtel Wisdom Cissokho

Allen Alberto

Ibe Aspas Sterling

Borini

I've put Alberto in central midfield because that's where I've seen him play in pre-season but did think he was supposed to be a forward/winger, I suppose time will tell. I doubt that will be the first team, can see Lucas and Henderson both playing. 

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Post by TheCultOfPersonality on Sun 25 Aug 2013, 5:02 pm

Agree with most of the team however I'd like to see Kelly playing at centre back. He played there for the Under 21's and seemed ok. Also, I think Skrtel's doubtful with an injury.

Also, I disagree with your valuation for Toure. I think toure was solid, he won a lot of the aeriel battles and kept up with Benteke despite a few mistakes.

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Post by Guest on Sun 25 Aug 2013, 8:33 pm

A player of Benteke's quality and strength is always going to find an opening at some point however I thought Toure handled him exceptionally well for much of the game, now whether he does the same to Van Persie next week remains to be seen

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Sun 25 Aug 2013, 9:02 pm

Please can we have Kolo back ??

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Post by Crimey on Mon 26 Aug 2013, 1:06 am

Must have been watching a different game, while Benteke didn't do a lot, I think that was a lot more due to him being starved of service, when he did get the ball he usually got a shot away and Toure did an awful job of keeping a hold of him when crosses came in either from set pieces or otherwise. 

Also I've never seen a top level centre back twice dive over the top of others in the box and fail to get the ball both times. Mindless.

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Post by Kenny on Wed 28 Aug 2013, 9:46 am

Reality check from Notts County might just be what was needed before Utd at the weekend , we are really struggling at CB now though no panic buy though please
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Post by Guest on Wed 28 Aug 2013, 11:07 am

Wisdom must be breathng a sigh of relief as I thought he was at fault for both goals. Got dragged into the middle leaving his man free on both occasions.

Do we stick Kelly at RB and put Johnson in the middle with Agger or give Carragher a ring and ask if he's available?

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Post by Crimey on Wed 28 Aug 2013, 12:17 pm

Is Kelly even available? I assumed that as he wasn't playing yesterday he was injured? Surely, without anybody new being brought in and with Kelly, Coates, Toure and Skrtel out it will be Andre Wisdom starting.

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Post by Guest on Wed 28 Aug 2013, 1:07 pm

I thought Kelly played in some of the pre-season matches. I'm sure I've seen him recently annd think he even scored (he's grown his hair long or something silly) however, I concede he may have picked up an injury which would rule him out. If that's the case I think Wisdom will need a lot of protection becasue I thought he was very vulnerable last night. May have been the occasion but I'd have thought even at that age, he'd be used to playing at Anfield by now.


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Post by Crimey on Wed 28 Aug 2013, 1:55 pm

Yeah, I thought Wisdom was poor last night. Just not sure what else we can do really. Any news on how long Toure is out for? 

Should be expecting two more signings I reckon before the window closes, an attacker and a central defender going on past bids.

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Post by TheCultOfPersonality on Wed 28 Aug 2013, 2:01 pm

Last I heard, Toure left on crutches so thats not a good sign. No update since.

Wisdom seems the only real choice right now although if Rodgers did say Skrtel will be fine for Sunday as he has been training the last few days. I reckon Johnson could do a decent job at centre back, he hasn't been to great going forward on the wings as of late.

I think another winger is likely to come in, or even possibly a defensive midfielder as Lucas doesn't have much back up, especially with Allen getting injured.

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Post by Crimey on Wed 28 Aug 2013, 2:13 pm

Think a centre back coming in is the only certainty, with Wisdom going out on loan if Toure's injury isn't going to last months. 

Then an attacking player based on us making bids for the likes of Diego Costa and Willian. 

If Skrtel is fit then I think we'll be alright, still think he's a much better option than Toure although I seem to be in the minority.

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Post by mobilemaster8 on Wed 28 Aug 2013, 2:21 pm

Ill be honest in two ways here. Firstly, i hate Liverpool for a number of reasons (mainly the players saying they will win the league every season for the past decade, the fans saying the same, and their constant gloating about their past and not present)

Secondly, and more importantly, Liverpool have looked absolutely brilliant in their opening league games.

Aspos, Coutinho and Sturridge, backed up by Gerard and an in form Lucas look very, very deadly.

Im a stoke fan, and although we only lost 1-0, it could have been at least 6-0 had Begovic not pulled of a stormer.

Even though we were getting a spanking, it was a joy to watch their football being played properly under Brendan.

I seriously think you guys will have a very successful season, one in which will be joyous to watch.

all the best gents! Here is to Assaidi showing some flair at the Britannia!

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Post by Guest on Wed 28 Aug 2013, 2:40 pm

mobilemaster8 wrote:Ill be honest in two ways here. Firstly, i hate Liverpool for a number of reasons (mainly the players saying they will win the league every season for the past decade, the fans saying the same, and their constant gloating about their past and not present)

Secondly, and more importantly, Liverpool have looked absolutely brilliant in their opening league games.

Aspos, Coutinho and Sturridge, backed up by Gerard and an in form Lucas look very, very deadly.

Im a stoke fan, and although we only lost 1-0, it could have been at least 6-0 had Begovic not pulled of a stormer.

Even though we were getting a spanking, it was a joy to watch their football being played properly under Brendan.

I seriously think you guys will have a very successful season, one in which will be joyous to watch.

all the best gents! Here is to Assaidi showing some flair at the Britannia!
I can't say I've ever noticed it myself but we'll agree to differ Whistle  We still need to be more clinical in front of goal and take a few of the chances we're creating. I hope the return of Suarez will result in a few more goals and thus ease the pressure we seem to put on ourselve as the 75 - 80 minute mark draws nearer.

However, if truth be known, I'll take a scrappy 1-0 win every week if it means we get back up to the top

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Post by mobilemaster8 on Wed 28 Aug 2013, 3:00 pm

Indeed Dave, i very much agree regarding finishing. Suarez will get that back on track for you if he is still there come transfer deadline.

Coutinho will create a hell of a lot and looks to potentially be an absolute gem.

1-0 wins all count mate, man Utd do it all the time, its the sign of champions. Grabbing that one important goal and keeping a cool head to hold on if its tough. I think Liverpool finally have a good recipe at the club now, and could surprise a few, starting Sunday with that small game against some team from Manchester....

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Post by Guest on Wed 28 Aug 2013, 3:03 pm

I'd like a win at Anfield and would even take a draw at Old Trafford (if we were still there or thereabouts) but whether we can stifle Utd's sufficiently whilst creating enough chances (and putting 'em away) is a concern

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Post by Kenny on Wed 28 Aug 2013, 3:07 pm

latest news on Suarez that i have heard is that he will sign a new contract that will include two buy out clauses . 1 - that he can move abroad for a offer over £65 million , 2 - that he can move to another Premier league team who offer over £80 million .

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Post by mobilemaster8 on Wed 28 Aug 2013, 3:14 pm

Id scrap that premier league one and have any team abroad that offers £80 million then he can go. Would never sell him to another club in the league.

Imagine if Thierry Henry, in his prime, signed for Man Utd?!

in fact, saying that, RVP went there and he has proven probably one of their best ever transfers.

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Post by Kenny on Wed 28 Aug 2013, 3:17 pm

I think the clauses are just to keep him happy , but i agree i wouldn't sell him to another Premier League team .....unless of course one or two of their top players came the other way . I can't see another Prem team paying over £80 million anyway
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Post by Guest on Wed 28 Aug 2013, 3:22 pm

Suarez would have to have a Lineker-esque disciplinary record and possible personality transplant for another club to consider paying that much for him. Mind you, if he has another prolific season in front of goal and we still don't get top four, those bids might not be so unrealistic

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Post by Crimey on Wed 28 Aug 2013, 3:27 pm

That contract would make sense really, only City and possibly Chelsea can afford the £80 million and I can't see them spending it on Suarez with his disciplinary record.

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Post by TheCultOfPersonality on Sat 31 Aug 2013, 5:16 pm

Looks as though Moses, Llori and Sakho are on their way.

Good defensive transfers there but really not happy nor looking forward to Moses playing. He may have strength and pace but is very sloppy on the ball and wasteful at times.

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Post by Crimey on Sat 31 Aug 2013, 5:17 pm

I can't see him starting too often anyway, especially as a loan player, expect him to be behind a lot of players in the pecking order. Good cover, I like Moses although agree he has his weaknesses. Always good to improve the depth, still feel our bench is quite weak and think Rodgers rarely has good options off of it, Moses will offer pace and power off of the bench which is what you need a lot of the time to break down a stubborn defence.

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Post by TheCultOfPersonality on Sat 31 Aug 2013, 6:25 pm

Yeah I guess he would make an ideal subsitute. Hopefully has a similar impact to Ryan Babel few years ago who always looked best coming on as a sub.

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Post by Crimey on Sat 31 Aug 2013, 6:28 pm

We can also use him in the cups as I'd like to see us give the domestic cups a go considering there is no European football this year.

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Post by Mat on Sat 31 Aug 2013, 8:49 pm

Seems like a pretty silly move for him if he isn't going to be first choice at Liverpool, just going from being a reserve at Chelsea to a reserve at Liverpool. Not that I am at all jealous because I wanted him at Albion Whistle 

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Post by Crimey on Tue 03 Sep 2013, 1:09 am

Ins:
Kolo Toure - Free
Iago Aspas - £7.7m
Luis Alberto - £6.2m
Simon Mignolet - £9m
Aly Cissokho - Loan
Mamadou Sakho - £16 million
Tiago Ilori - £9m
Victor Moses - Loan

£56.9m

Outs:
Danny Wilson - Free
Andy Carroll - £15m
Suso - Loan
Jack Robinson - Loan
Jay Spearing - £1m
Stewart Downing - £5m
Oussama Assaidi - Loan
Jonjo Shelvey - £5m
Conor Coady - Loan
Pepe Reina - Loan
Dani Pacheo - Free

£26m

Net Spend: £20.9m

I think that's a really good window, as well as the people coming in we've managed to keep hold of the likes of Suarez and Agger to end the window with a stronger squad than we had before it opened.

The only real negatives for me are the fact that the club couldn't pull of that marquee signing, but appreciated that the club was going for ambitious targets. Really disappointed Shelvey left, I really rate him and do think he'll be a star for Swansea. We've let him go without really replacing him, and I'd definitely rather have him than Joe Allen. 

Other than that, I think this window should be given a B+, we've brought in some really promising talent. Not enough to bridge the gap to the top 4 I feel, but it's certainly the best window for a while. Much better than last year for sure.

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Post by Guest on Tue 03 Sep 2013, 9:43 am

Whilst I thought Shelvey definitely had potential, I don't think it's all doom and gloom as someone or something seems to have lit a fire under Jordan Henderson of late and that can only be a good thing. Martin Skyrtel also looks to have recaptured his mojo.

Is it all enough to bridge the gap between us and the CL places...on papers perhaps not but if we can keep our focus and discipline and start converting last season's draws into wins, who knows. We're generally up for the bigger games and gave a decent account of ourselves at times. Should have done City over twice, and it was one apiece against Spurs.

All in all, whilst it's very early days, there's (as always) optimism that we can improve on last season (there's always the fear that it all goes A over T). I'd like to see us sticking away a few more chances and whilst Sturridge is in great form, he's still a tad too selfish for my liking, but like I said before, I'll take a scrappy 1-0 win for us every week if it means getting back up to the top tier.

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Post by Kenny on Tue 10 Sep 2013, 3:30 pm

If Suarez comes in with the right attitude and the new signings settle in then who knows what could happen but i wont get carried away after 3 games
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Post by Crimey on Tue 10 Sep 2013, 3:50 pm

I'm just glad we have a kind run of games coming up, I think a really strong start is just what we need, and then we only get stronger with Suarez returning and I think Gerrard will get better as the season goes along as well.

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Post by Crimey on Sat 14 Sep 2013, 6:53 pm

I hope we stick with the same line up as the last few games rather than start any of the new signings, can see Sakho starting though, either instead of Enrique or Skrtel, neither deserve to lose their place. Johnson out, Wisdom likely to start but would rather have Kelly, not a massive fan of Wisdom.

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Post by Duty281 on Sat 14 Sep 2013, 7:18 pm

Liverpool will still lead the league if they avoid defeat on Monday.

Dare to dream?

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Post by Crimey on Sat 14 Sep 2013, 7:22 pm

I'd hope to beat Swansea, but Liverpool do seem to struggle against them (bar the 5-0 win) and think the international break and Sturridge and Johnson's injury woes won't help us. 

I'm expecting another 1-0 win for Liverpool.

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Post by TheCultOfPersonality on Sat 14 Sep 2013, 7:58 pm

Swansea will be really difficult, they will be really going for a home win after there display in the opening game to United. However I do think we will win. If Sturridge starts, that will be a major plus. If he don't start, I think we will see Moses debut with Aspas go through the middle.

With Johnson out I can either see Wisdom take his place or put Skrtel at right back where he has played in the past. That will mean Sakho can come in for his full debut.

Should be a good match nonetheless, can't be worse than the last meeting at Swansea last year can it?

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Post by Crimey on Mon 16 Sep 2013, 7:11 pm

Mignolet

Wisdom
Skrtel
Sakho
Enrique

Lucas
Gerrard
Henderson

Moses
Coutinho

Sturridge

Subs:
Jones
Toure
Kelly
Alberto
Sterling
Ibe
Aspas

I am hoping Agger is injured or ill, otherwise Rodgers has gone insane.

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Post by TheCultOfPersonality on Mon 16 Sep 2013, 7:18 pm

LFC just put up a page stating he received a knock in training and has been rested with precaution. No long term concerns.

This is gonna be a very difficult game. We have an entirely new defence, im sure Sakho will cope with it but I worry for Wisdom.

I would have stuck with Aspas with one more game instead of starting Moses. We have so many options on the wings with Sterling, Alberto and Ibe as well.

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Post by Duty281 on Mon 16 Sep 2013, 7:20 pm

Liverpool to win 1-0 again. Good first half, followed by a valiant rearguard in the second.

I love watching Liverpool - it's just like watching England.

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Post by Crimey on Mon 16 Sep 2013, 7:22 pm

Iago Aspas is such a hard one to judge at the moment, hasn't done anything of note in games but has played some nice football, starved of service in my opinion.

I think Liverpool should be able to dominate the midfield today, Michu is too advanced in general and with Henderson, Lucas and Gerrard should be able to dominate Shelvey and Britton.

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Post by Guest on Mon 16 Sep 2013, 7:42 pm

Crimey wrote:Iago Aspas is such a hard one to judge at the moment, hasn't done anything of note in games but has played some nice football, starved of service in my opinion.
I think Liverpool should be able to dominate the midfield today, Michu is too advanced in general and with Henderson, Lucas and Gerrard should be able to dominate Shelvey and Britton.
Been concerned that both Coutinho and Sturridge have been keeping the ball far too long and trying to do too much with it. We played better when keeping it simple and I hope we don't try anything to silly. Aspas looked out of his depth against Utd but hoping he can come good sooner rather than later.

Would really like to see a few goals from us this evening as I'm not sure we can keep pushing out luck at 1-0 week in week out.

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Post by Crimey on Mon 16 Sep 2013, 7:48 pm

I think Coutinho needs to try and start just keeping things simple, too often he tries some dribble that is improbable to come off.

One big positive for me is the strength on the bench, think Swansea will struggle the longer the game is as there isn't a lot of quality attacking talent on the bench, happy with that can call on the likes of Sterling, Aspas, Ibe or Alberto to change the game.

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Post by Hero on Mon 16 Sep 2013, 7:52 pm

Have to say that despite not being his biggest fan Carragher just cracked me up.

'Fullbacks are either failed wingers or failed centrebacks.
No one wants to grow up and be a fullback, no one wants to be Gary Neville'

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Post by Fernando on Mon 16 Sep 2013, 8:02 pm

Well i think we all saw that coming

Swansea 1-0 Liverpool - Jonjo Shelvey

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Post by Guest on Mon 16 Sep 2013, 8:02 pm

welcome to the premier league sakho picard 

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Post by Fernando on Mon 16 Sep 2013, 8:03 pm

Jonjo forgot what side he plays for setting up Sturridge 1-1

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Post by Guest on Mon 16 Sep 2013, 8:04 pm

EPL finally comes to life

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Post by Fernando on Mon 16 Sep 2013, 8:37 pm

Jonjo assisting Liverpool again.

Moses scores on debut, good goal got space inside with Sturridge running taking the defense away

2-1 Scousers

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Post by Guest on Mon 16 Sep 2013, 8:41 pm

Jonjo is mentally gone

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Post by Crimey on Mon 16 Sep 2013, 8:54 pm

Real shame, I like Shelvey and although he's playing against Liverpool not nice to see a young player have such a shocker, can break a player.

Moses looks really good, was disappointed we didn't sign him from Wigan in the first place, he's not world class obviously, but I think he's a great addition. Hoping we snap him up permanently.

Liverpool look very shaky at the back without Agger and Johnson, Sakho is lucky that he's not had a shocking debut to be honest, caught out a few times now and diving into tackles. Wisdom never seems aware of what's around him and comes narrow as he obviously wantsto play centre back. Enrique is doing what Enrique does. Skrtel holding the fort down. 

Coutinho struggling in the middle, as I have said he does. Doesn't get enough space to make an impact, better coming from a wide position so that neither the full or centre back pick him up. More like Eden Hazard or Cazorla than Mezut Ozil or Juan Mata in my opinion. 

Really hoping Liverpool don't sit back now, need to put this game away, we'll get enough chances to I think.

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