Liverpool Thread: Road to thinking we might get top 4, only to feel stupid at the end of the season

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Post by Crimey on Wed 05 Jun 2013, 2:52 pm

First topic message reminder :

Transfer ins:
Kolo Toure (free transfer from Manchester City)

Transfers out:
Danny Wilson (free to Hearts)
Jamie Carragher (free to Sky)
Peter Gulacsi (free to Salzburg)


Last edited by Crimey on Fri 07 Jun 2013, 8:06 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by lfc91 on Sat 19 Oct 2013, 3:02 pm

**BR will show just how out off his depth he truely is. Would genuinely love to be proved wrong i should add, but there you go thats my opinion on the matter.

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Post by PaulHv2 on Sat 19 Oct 2013, 3:14 pm

You highlight Allen as a poor transfer, however he is a young lad who has time to develop in to a good player. Look at Henderson for example, poor when he first arrived for a similar sort of fee yet this season he's been dependable and done well.

Don't forget Rodgers also signed Sturridge, Sahko, Toure, Coutinho, got Moses in on loan and Mingolet. He's signed more good than bad.

You've said sack him, but who would you bring that would do a better job?
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Post by lfc91 on Sat 19 Oct 2013, 3:22 pm

Are you naming those guys because you think they're good transfers or just transfers hes made? If you consider them all as good transfer i would have to disagree with you!

As for the manager situation, you have higlighted what would be the main problem with sacking BR. Any manager who could do a better job is unlikely to leave there club to come to liverpool because like it or not we dont command the same respect in the worldwide game as we once did, what with the lack of major european football the last number of years!

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Post by PaulHv2 on Sat 19 Oct 2013, 3:26 pm

Who has been bad signing out of the players I've mentioned? Sahko has come in and done well at the back, so well he's keeping Agger out of the side as is Toure. Mingolet has been solid in goal except for the game at Sunderland, Coutinho came in last year and had an instant impact creating chance for Sturridge and Suarez before his ban. Sturridge has scored 20 goals in 26 games and is on fire at the moment, and Moses is a good squad player who has done well when he's been needed so far this year.

Surely you don't think they're bad signings?
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Post by lfc91 on Sat 19 Oct 2013, 3:34 pm

Sturridge/coutinho both fantastic! Sahko, to be has been shakey, as has mignolet. Toure has been solid and as for moses...well todays poor performance aside i would say hes been average at best. All just my opinions of course and yours clearly arent the same.

And what of the allens, cissokos, aspas, borinis, assaidis? Poor signing coupled with poor outgoing decisions? The main one in my eyes being letting suso go, a ready made replacement for coutinho! Since his injury we have lacked creativity, that final ball...and those are things suso has in abundance!

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Post by lfc91 on Sat 19 Oct 2013, 3:37 pm

To me, rodgers has spent over £100m and only sturridge/coutinho for me can be said to have been great buys. Allen/borini etc were poor with the rest being to new to really say.

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Post by Kenny on Sun 20 Oct 2013, 1:08 pm

We still need another striker and creative midfielder
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 20 Oct 2013, 1:16 pm

Rodgers got it incredibly wrong yesterday.

Why on earth 3 CB's were still on the field, when you were facing 10 men I dunno. Then Sterling came on, and he slotted in at RWB, and not RW! Sorry needed a tactical change and Rodgers was too stubborn yesterday for me.
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Post by Kenny on Sun 20 Oct 2013, 1:17 pm

Olly wrote:Rodgers got it incredibly wrong yesterday.

Why on earth 3 CB's were still on the field, when you were facing 10 men I dunno. Then Sterling came on, and he slotted in at RWB, and not RW! Sorry needed a tactical change and Rodgers was too stubborn yesterday for me.
agree , no plan b
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Post by PaulHv2 on Sun 20 Oct 2013, 3:55 pm

We didn't leave 3 cbs on the field Olly, Sahko went off after 63 minutes (little to late but I think we where loosing at this point) and we switched to 442 as Alberto went in to midfield.
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 20 Oct 2013, 4:40 pm

Ah you would be correct, I seem to be getting Sakho mixed up with somebody!

Alberto really made an impact on the game then Laugh
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Post by PaulHv2 on Sun 20 Oct 2013, 4:46 pm

Young lad to be fair mate, he's only 20 I believe. Having looked at the stats we were wasteful. Even watching the game there was a feeling we wouldn't get the win, just look at the chance Sturridge missed from either the Moses cut back or the Gerrard cross. I'd have put my life savings on him scoring them.
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 20 Oct 2013, 4:58 pm

Missed Coutinho yesterday I felt, don't think that role behind SAS really suits Moses, it's perfect for the little Brazilian though
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Post by PaulHv2 on Sun 20 Oct 2013, 5:12 pm

I'd agree with that mate, Moses looks more comfortable on the wing. I think we'll see either Henderson or Gerrard push further forward now Lucas is back.
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Post by Guest on Mon 21 Oct 2013, 11:07 am

Not sure how many more bullets we can dodge this season (mind you Man Utd won the PL by scraping through a great number of games so you never know). Thought we were poor at the weekend, certainly in the first half, but fair play to Newcastle, they defended well and worked hard.

Definitely need Coutinho to be firing on all cylinders but I think most teams have realised what a threat he is and try to mark/kick him out of the game. This is when we need someone else backing Coutinho up and picking up the loose ball but it needs to be someone who can actually do something with it. Sadly it probably means Suarez dropping back which only leaves Sturridge up front.

Defenitely require another creative midfielder and it might not be a bad idea to try Alberto and Coutinho together rather than having one as a like for like replacement on the bench

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Post by Kenny on Mon 21 Oct 2013, 11:45 am

I don't want to knock Rodgers as we have started the season far better then i think any of us thought we would .
My biggest concern is the players on the bench , why are we picking 3 defenders on the bench each week when we are already playing 4 or sometimes 5 in the starting 11 ? we then ' change ' it by bringing on Sterling and play him at right wingback if you going to take a defender off then why not replace him with another defender rather then playing someone out of position .
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Post by Guest on Mon 21 Oct 2013, 12:01 pm

I agree it's a great start to the season and Southampton aside I think we've played some good stuff. The criticism levelled at Arsenal also applies to us namely that we've not really played anyone yet and I think 2nd November is a massive game.

Get a result at the Emirates and I think it gives the team a real boost

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Post by Kenny on Mon 21 Oct 2013, 12:16 pm

yes massive game at the Emirates but we can't over look WBA this weekend they are playing decent football and wont be a pushover
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Post by lfc91 on Mon 21 Oct 2013, 12:22 pm

Oddly enough its the bigger teams i have the most confidence playing against! Its the so called smaller teams who i cant help but feel will take points off us time and time again! A win at the weelend is crucial for confidence before arsenal though. Anyone know when coutinho will be back?

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Post by Guest on Mon 21 Oct 2013, 12:28 pm

Coutinho is supposedly back for the WBA game but I have a feeling he'll start on the bench.

Your concern re the "smaller teams" taking points off us is something that used to bother me but there seems to be a bit more steel in the team than previously. In the past we'd end up conceding a late one at the likes of Stoke and the fact we're something like 13 points better of at this stage of this season compared to last may be a reflection of that.

We're generally "up" for the bigger teams and should have done City twice last year, but we could do with winning at least four matches against Utd, City, Spurs, Arsenal and Chelsea to be in with a chance of top four

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Post by Kenny on Mon 21 Oct 2013, 12:42 pm

so called smaller teams always seem to up their game playing us ( it always seemed to me that we were the one team they really wanted to beat or thought of the bigger teams that they could ) i suppose it comes from the tradition of the club .

The way Utd have started under Moyes that may change now ................that was tongue in cheek for any Utd fans thinking I'm wumming .
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Post by lfc91 on Mon 21 Oct 2013, 9:24 pm

Think i would rather see him come off the bench for 15/20 minutes against WBA to get a bit of match sharpeness back and then make a start against arsenal. No doubt in my mind that coutinho will be vital this year, the man to link the play between midfield and our 2 world class strikers(ok maybe for sturridge this may be a premature label but on form i think its a fair statement).

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Post by Crimey on Fri 01 Nov 2013, 10:21 am

If we beat Arsenal at the weekend, can we start believing Champions League is a realistic prospect and a title challenge not out of the question?

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Post by Soldier_Of_Fortune on Fri 01 Nov 2013, 10:30 am

I would like to see what position we are in after 19 games, if we are in the same vein of form, anything is possible.

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Post by Duty281 on Fri 01 Nov 2013, 10:32 am

Crimey wrote:If we beat Arsenal at the weekend, can we start believing Champions League is a realistic prospect and a title challenge not out of the question?
Yes and yes.

Liverpool should beat Arsenal this weekend, even though they're away. Suarez and Sturridge in great form, against a team that have lost their last 2 big matches at home - Dortmund and Chelsea.

1-2 Liverpool - and Liverpool to finish second in the league.

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Post by Fernando on Fri 01 Nov 2013, 10:36 am

Id hope that Rodgers has something other then 3-5-2 up his sleeve for tomorrow cos personally that just plays into Arsenal's and their overlapping full backs hands.

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Post by Crimey on Fri 01 Nov 2013, 10:42 am

I don't like 3-5-2 normally, I know it's been successful over the last few games, but I think the team has been successful despite the formation rather than because of it. I'd also like Agger back in the first team, he's easily the best centre back and none of the current three should be able to keep him out of the side.

Don't want to see Coutinho start, would rather he came off of the bench, unless Rodgers drops 3-5-2 for a more conventional system.

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Post by Soldier_Of_Fortune on Fri 01 Nov 2013, 10:44 am

Fernando wrote:Id hope that Rodgers has something other then 3-5-2 up his sleeve for tomorrow cos personally that just plays into Arsenal's and their overlapping full backs hands.
 
 
I dont think we will be having too many nightmares over Gibbs and Jenkinson

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Post by Kenny on Fri 01 Nov 2013, 11:06 am

I'm in two minds about the Arsenal game

in one way i would like to see how our passing attacking game matches up with theirs , but on the other i think the result is very important so wouldn't mind a snatch and grab win
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Post by Fernando on Fri 01 Nov 2013, 11:27 am

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:
Fernando wrote:Id hope that Rodgers has something other then 3-5-2 up his sleeve for tomorrow cos personally that just plays into Arsenal's and their overlapping full backs hands.
 
 
I dont think we will be having too many nightmares over Gibbs and Jenkinson
it'll be Sagna & Gibbs. You think it's a wise idea to give Cazorla/Ozil or Ramsey a wing to themselves to exploit considering how far Gibbs/Sagna go up the pitch? Ud be asking for trouble leaving it 2 vs 1 each time

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Post by Crimey on Fri 01 Nov 2013, 11:30 am

To be fair, the two 'wingers' on the 3-5-2 system are both full backs rather than wide midfielders so the wide areas will be heavily reinforced as it can quickly revert into a 5-3-2 formation with the two wide centre backs covering the wing.

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Post by Soldier_Of_Fortune on Fri 01 Nov 2013, 11:40 am

Fernando wrote:
Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:
Fernando wrote:Id hope that Rodgers has something other then 3-5-2 up his sleeve for tomorrow cos personally that just plays into Arsenal's and their overlapping full backs hands.
 
 
I dont think we will be having too many nightmares over Gibbs and Jenkinson
it'll be Sagna & Gibbs. You think it's a wise idea to give Cazorla/Ozil or Ramsey a wing to themselves to exploit considering how far Gibbs/Sagna go up the pitch? Ud be asking for trouble leaving it 2 vs 1 each time
 
I dont think Arsen will want Gibbs and Sagna that high up the pitch as we have got quite a bit of pace in our attack now. Food for thought.

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Post by Kenny on Fri 01 Nov 2013, 11:48 am

Real possibility of a penalty or sending off for one of the Arsenal centerbacks with Suarez running at them
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Post by Crimey on Sun 10 Nov 2013, 12:53 am

Good result today to bounce back from the defeat and poor performance at Arsenal, Coutinho returning was a definitive plus as he is such a creative little player that he offers a dimension to the side that nobody else can, he makes the team more direct which I think is a must for Liverpool because over the past few years we have struggled to effectively turn possession and domination into goals. 

Glad to see the return to the back four and Agger returning to the starting line up, that is how it should be from now on. The 3-5-2 formation was never a favourite of mine and when used against bigger clubs leaves too much space to exploit and invites attacks. 

I thought Suarez, Gerrard and Henderson were fantastic in the game today and those three are probably the guys I'd always have in the team sheet from now on. They all work very hard, are technically good and are direct.

Good result, good performance even if Fulham laid down and took it. Shame there's an international break.

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Post by lfc91 on Sun 10 Nov 2013, 8:12 pm

Very good performance on saturday, good to see us dispatcing of the 'smaller' teams with relative ease. Quick look at the fixtures between now and christmas, theres 4 you would expect to take all 3 points (although we all know thats not a guarantee) and 2 big games against everton and tottenham.

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Post by nasisillmatic on Mon 11 Nov 2013, 10:07 am

We've drew 2-2 in both games after the international break, and they've both been away from home. I think the derby may go the same way.

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Post by Guest on Mon 11 Nov 2013, 12:58 pm

nasisillmatic wrote:We've drew 2-2 in both games after the international break, and they've both been away from home. I think the derby may go the same way.
If we can get a good result against Everton I think it will be another decent indicator of how the team are progressing.

Shame Arsenal weren't as p*** poor against us as the were yesterday

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Post by Kenny on Mon 11 Nov 2013, 1:11 pm

News today that Gerrard and Sturridge may both pull out of the England squad with slight niggles
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Post by nasisillmatic on Mon 11 Nov 2013, 1:50 pm

Kenny wrote:News today that Gerrard and Sturridge may both pull out of the England squad with slight niggles
For the best, no point in them playing.

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Post by Kenny on Mon 11 Nov 2013, 2:09 pm

All we need now to do is convince Uruguay to stop flying Suarez all around the world for friendlies
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Post by Guest on Mon 11 Nov 2013, 3:18 pm

I think Uruguay are playing Jordan in a WC Playoff - hardly a meaningless friendly.

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Post by Guest on Mon 11 Nov 2013, 3:29 pm

To be hoped they win quite hanidly and Suarez can be rested for the 2nd leg but something tells me that lad would get on a replacement bus to Mars if there was a match.

Got to say, I was sceptical when LFC said that Suarez was "on board" after the Summer shenanigans but I will readily admit I've done him a dis-service as I think his attitude and application are beyond reproach.

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Post by Guest on Mon 11 Nov 2013, 4:17 pm

Look, I'm not a huge fan of him personally after his numerous antics but he is a superb striker, unquestionably him & Aguero vying for the top striker in the league status currently. Looks as though he has turned a corner and his attitude seems to have improved, only time will tell though whether or not it's too impress other clubs into trusting they are buying a suitable, reliable individual who's image is not tarnished or if it's to actually stay at Liverpool for the long term. The way he's going, I find it difficult not to see him moving to a huge club abroad. It will be interesting to see whether or not he stays if Liverpool qualify for the top 4. If they don't I'm sure that Wenger's desire for a striker in the summer, will see him probably go for Benzema & then Real would want Suarez as his replacement.

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Post by Guest on Mon 11 Nov 2013, 5:21 pm

John wrote:Look, I'm not a huge fan of him personally after his numerous antics but he is a superb striker, unquestionably him & Aguero vying for the top striker in the league status currently. Looks as though he has turned a corner and his attitude seems to have improved, only time will tell though whether or not it's too impress other clubs into trusting they are buying a suitable, reliable individual who's image is not tarnished or if it's to actually stay at Liverpool for the long term. The way he's going, I find it difficult not to see him moving to a huge club abroad. It will be interesting to see whether or not he stays if Liverpool qualify for the top 4. If they don't I'm sure that Wenger's desire for a striker in the summer, will see him probably go for Benzema & then Real would want Suarez as his replacement.
That's my biggest concern (outside of actually making the top four in the first place)

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Post by Crimey on Tue 12 Nov 2013, 2:03 am

I don't think his attitude on the pitch has ever been poor, he's always been the hardest worker on the pitch, chasing every ball down. Think that's why Liverpool fans warmed to him quickly, even when at the beginning he wasn't prolific. I have to agree though I questioned whether that would continue after the saga in the summer, but if anything his work rate seems to have gotten even better and he seems to be happy and enjoying himself.

I'm hoping top 4 will be enough to keep him, but can't be certain. I'm hoping that being the number one star at Liverpool might be a reason for him to stay rather than move to a team like Madrid where he will be second/third fiddle to Ronaldo and Bale. Liverpool are essentially building a team around him and he's allowed to play the way he wants to, find it hard to believe it would be the same at Madrid. Hoping he'd rather be the star than a cog.

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Post by Hulking_up on Tue 12 Nov 2013, 8:19 am

I'm resigned to him going in the summer and us getting screwed by the transfer figure.

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Post by Guest on Tue 12 Nov 2013, 10:56 am

Crimey wrote:I don't think his attitude on the pitch has ever been poor, he's always been the hardest worker on the pitch, chasing every ball down. Think that's why Liverpool fans warmed to him quickly, even when at the beginning he wasn't prolific. I have to agree though I questioned whether that would continue after the saga in the summer, but if anything his work rate seems to have gotten even better and he seems to be happy and enjoying himself.

I'm hoping top 4 will be enough to keep him, but can't be certain. I'm hoping that being the number one star at Liverpool might be a reason for him to stay rather than move to a team like Madrid where he will be second/third fiddle to Ronaldo and Bale. Liverpool are essentially building a team around him and he's allowed to play the way he wants to, find it hard to believe it would be the same at Madrid. Hoping he'd rather be the star than a cog.
Wasn't enough for Torres though.

I'd like to see us in the CL next season and have Suarez in the side, if we're competitive against the rest of Europe, I'd like to think it would be enough to keep him but as most say, the lure of a CL medal seems to great for some and with plenty of money for certain teams to spend on players of his calibre, it's always going to be an uphill slog for us. Hopefully Rodgers can nab a couple of decent signings in January which might convince Suarez that we're on the right track and, more importantly, heading in the right direction.

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Post by Guest on Tue 12 Nov 2013, 11:30 am

I'm sure the agent, Pep's brother, will surely be eyeing up the big windfall coming his way for negotiating a huge deal for his client. Next summer & with this continued form, could be the big deal financially for both client & agent, seeing as he's in his prime & is clearly in demand. I don't think you can reliably trust Suarez to stay, regardless of top 4 or if he's enjoying his football.

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Post by Guest on Tue 12 Nov 2013, 12:20 pm

I'm sure that, after the Arsenal debacle, the deal between club and player was "Get us into the CL and, if they come a'knocking for (whatever they value him at) we'll agree to let you speak to them!" rather than "Get us to the CL and then help us win it"

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Post by Kenny on Tue 12 Nov 2013, 3:03 pm

I have always said every player has his price , but i can't see Liverpool selling to another english club no matter what .

I don't think the owner will be forced to sell either , whether Suarez wants to leave or not as he still has 3 and a half years on his contract and they have already stated the intent to keep him .

Lets be honest , like him or not Suarez is in the top 5 strikers in the world right now and considering the price that some of the players went for this year then a fee for Suarez would have to start in the £65 million plus range on market value if not more . And any club would have to then consider such an offer no matter who the player was as it would be wrong not to .
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