Will the Lions win in Australia make/give Warren Gatland a knighthood?

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Post by majesticimperialman on Mon 08 Jul 2013, 5:31 am

After 2003 Rugby World Cup when England became World Champions Clive Woodward became SIR CLIVE WOODWARD.

Will this Lions win, do the same for Warren Gatland?

Just a thought.

What do you think?


Last edited by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) on Mon 08 Jul 2013, 12:01 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : fixed irritating typo in thread title)

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Post by Taylorman on Mon 08 Jul 2013, 6:27 am

Yep, exactly the same...all downhill from there, same as SCW...

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Post by Biltong on Mon 08 Jul 2013, 6:56 am

I have never understood the significance of recieving a Kighthood, would a medal of some sort not be sufficient?
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Post by GloriousEmpire on Mon 08 Jul 2013, 8:08 am

It would be utterly ridiculous. So it will probably happen. Then of course a peerage as "sporting czar", and a stint with the commonwealth planning committee in Scotland followed by disaster heading up a 3rd division football club before reemergence as a mediocre Sky TV pundit.

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Post by SecretFly on Mon 08 Jul 2013, 11:49 am

Biltong wrote:I have never understood the significance of recieving a Kighthood, would a medal of some sort not be sufficient?

That's just about all they are these days, Biltong. Which is sad because I'd like to see Gats measured up for a suit of armour and being sent off to do his duty in the Crusades. A lot of unfinished work in them parts.

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Post by Cyril on Mon 08 Jul 2013, 11:52 am

SecretFly wrote:
Biltong wrote:I have never understood the significance of recieving a Kighthood, would a medal of some sort not be sufficient?

That's just about all they are these days, Biltong.  Which is sad because I'd like to see Gats measured up for a suit of armour and being sent off to do his duty in the Crusades.  A lot of unfinished work in them parts.
Gatlandball would be just the ticket for that.

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Post by SecretFly on Mon 08 Jul 2013, 11:59 am

Sir GatlandBall of Hamiltonshire it is then.

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Post by sirtidychris on Mon 08 Jul 2013, 12:16 pm

Why would it be ridiculous ?, i know everyone on these boards seems to hate him but his success with Wales has been immense followed by his success with the lions, surely that is what a knighthood is based on ?. I think he would be a good candidate in about 5-7 years after another lions tour and a world cup as late 40's is a bit young.

Its such a british thing to knock anyone that has success, SCW has done something no one else in the NH has ever achieved and given the english public a moment in history never to be forgotten. He then has had some failures...(Lions/football) and some more success (olympics role) but everyone wants to tear him to pieces and call him a joke. Same with sir ian, he has been one of the best most respected rugby coachs/managers of all time but all anyone bangs on about is his failed tenure at Bath, where he ended up a coach down and in a role he never signed up for.

One of the biggest legacies of the RWC 11 and this lions tour is how the media and fans have changed into the same mindset as most football fans, looking to tear anyone apart given the slightest sign of weakness or disagreement, it happened as soon as the lions squad was announced, through to almost every test and selection decision, from the word go every pundit and 'fan' seemed to be baying for blood!. The vitirol was to such an extend gatland's whole family was under attack to the point that he almost quit before the last test !!! and the fall out from the RWC has sent Martin johnson, one of englands greatest rugby hero's into rugby wilderness, lost to the sport at the top level.

I dont care if i like a person's charcater as portrayed on the few newspaper and media clips i see, i care about whether that person has the respect of the squad/coaches and people close to him and the results. SCW, SIM and Gatland have achieved great things in rugby that most people will only ever dream about and they deserve every accolade and award avaliable.

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Post by maestegmafia on Mon 08 Jul 2013, 1:11 pm

I would wait until Wales win the next RWC at HQ...!

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Post by Cyril on Mon 08 Jul 2013, 1:17 pm

Wouldn't the knighthood be sanctioned by the NZ government and then awarded by the Queen?

In which case it's up to NZ really isn't it?

Beating Aus might be a reason for NZ to think it's a worthy honour?

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Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) on Mon 08 Jul 2013, 1:27 pm

Cyril wrote:Wouldn't the knighthood be sanctioned by the NZ government and then awarded by the Queen?

In which case it's up to NZ really isn't it?

Beating Aus might be a reason for NZ to think it's a worthy honour?

Not necessarily - there's nothing stopping Britain awarding knighthoods to foreigners. It'd just mean the string of letters after the name would be "KBE" rather than "KNZM" if NZ awarded it.
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Post by Cyril on Mon 08 Jul 2013, 1:29 pm

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
Cyril wrote:Wouldn't the knighthood be sanctioned by the NZ government and then awarded by the Queen?

In which case it's up to NZ really isn't it?

Beating Aus might be a reason for NZ to think it's a worthy honour?

Not necessarily - there's nothing stopping Britain awarding knighthoods to foreigners. It'd just mean the string of letters after the name would be "KBE" rather than "KNZM" if NZ awarded it.
Ah, cheers Pete. That makes sense.

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Post by GunsGerms on Mon 08 Jul 2013, 1:32 pm

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
Cyril wrote:Wouldn't the knighthood be sanctioned by the NZ government and then awarded by the Queen?

In which case it's up to NZ really isn't it?

Beating Aus might be a reason for NZ to think it's a worthy honour?

Not necessarily - there's nothing stopping Britain awarding knighthoods to foreigners. It'd just mean the string of letters after the name would be "KBE" rather than "KNZM" if NZ awarded it.

A knighthood cannot be awarded to an Irish person without approval from the Irish govt.

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Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) on Mon 08 Jul 2013, 1:34 pm

Cyril wrote:
Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
Cyril wrote:Wouldn't the knighthood be sanctioned by the NZ government and then awarded by the Queen?

In which case it's up to NZ really isn't it?

Beating Aus might be a reason for NZ to think it's a worthy honour?

Not necessarily - there's nothing stopping Britain awarding knighthoods to foreigners. It'd just mean the string of letters after the name would be "KBE" rather than "KNZM" if NZ awarded it.
Ah, cheers Pete. That makes sense.

I'm mildly confused that SCW's full title is "Sir Clive Woodward OBE", or is that to denote that he got an OBE then later the knighthood? (I wiki'd SCW to see which British "Order" his knighthood was)
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Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) on Mon 08 Jul 2013, 1:36 pm

GunsGerms wrote:
Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
Cyril wrote:Wouldn't the knighthood be sanctioned by the NZ government and then awarded by the Queen?

In which case it's up to NZ really isn't it?

Beating Aus might be a reason for NZ to think it's a worthy honour?

Not necessarily - there's nothing stopping Britain awarding knighthoods to foreigners. It'd just mean the string of letters after the name would be "KBE" rather than "KNZM" if NZ awarded it.

A knighthood cannot be awarded to an Irish person without approval from the Irish govt.

 Ah, OK. I was assuming that generally rules were similar to the UK/US situation - US citizens constitutionally are barred from accepting titles from foreign nations, but "honourary" ones (IE where the person doesn't use the title) are OK.
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Post by GunsGerms on Mon 08 Jul 2013, 1:43 pm

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:
Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
Cyril wrote:Wouldn't the knighthood be sanctioned by the NZ government and then awarded by the Queen?

In which case it's up to NZ really isn't it?

Beating Aus might be a reason for NZ to think it's a worthy honour?

Not necessarily - there's nothing stopping Britain awarding knighthoods to foreigners. It'd just mean the string of letters after the name would be "KBE" rather than "KNZM" if NZ awarded it.

A knighthood cannot be awarded to an Irish person without approval from the Irish govt.

 Ah, OK. I was assuming that generally rules were similar to the UK/US situation - US citizens constitutionally are barred from accepting titles from foreign nations, but "honourary" ones (IE where the person doesn't use the title) are OK.

Actually you might be right. You need Irish government approval to use the title ala Sir Tony O'Reilly.

I think you'd have to have a big ego to request govt. approval to get a title.

I always find it very uncomfortable when for example I go to a restaraunt and the waiter calls me Sir.


Last edited by GunsGerms on Mon 08 Jul 2013, 1:44 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Portnoy's Complaint on Mon 08 Jul 2013, 1:43 pm

Biltong wrote:I have never understood the significance of recieving a Kighthood, would a medal of some sort not be sufficient?

You don't actually have to do anything but do your job to get a knighthood Bilts.

Sometimes even greater honours are bestowed on people on account of an accidental sperm leakage.

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Post by GunsGerms on Mon 08 Jul 2013, 1:45 pm

Prince Harry?

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Post by Cyril on Mon 08 Jul 2013, 1:49 pm

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:Sometimes even greater honours are bestowed on people on account of an accidental sperm leakage.
Monica Lewinsky's dry cleaners?

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Post by Portnoy's Complaint on Mon 08 Jul 2013, 1:52 pm

GunsGerms wrote:Prince Harry?

Precisely. If only St Bob of Geldof had been ennobled like St Margaret of Finchley...

Then their children could have at least have had grace and favours descending on them and their descendants forever.

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Post by SecretFly on Mon 08 Jul 2013, 1:58 pm

Given it's the British and Irish Lions, I don't see why anyone has to wait for a British knighthood anyway.  Let's give Gatland is Lions victory award here in Ireland.  

The Red Branch and Fianna Knighthood of Hibernia.

Only problem is................ you have to attend in person to get it. Whistle 

Here puddy, puddy...... come on Gats.  Come get your prize, that's a puddy cat ......................... Wink

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Post by fa0019 on Mon 08 Jul 2013, 2:04 pm

SCW did a little more then win the RWC.... he was coach for 7 years and in that time he turned them into the no.1 side in the world, unbeaten in 3 years vs. the SH sides (inc. home and away victories in succession against SA, NZ and AUS), 3 6N titles etc etc etc. Had it been a flash in the pan RWC victory I don't think he would have been knighted as quickly as he was so.

The Lions series... is just a series. If he wins the RWC with Wales and continues his success then sure why not.

McGeechan was head coach 4 times before he got a knighthood....2 of them winning.

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Post by Portnoy's Complaint on Mon 08 Jul 2013, 2:06 pm

SecretFly wrote:Given it's the British and Irish Lions, I don't see why anyone has to wait for a British knighthood anyway.  Let's give Gatland is Lions victory award here in Ireland.  

The Red Branch and Fianna Knighthood of Hibernia.

Only problem is................ you have to attend in person to get it. Whistle 

Here puddy, puddy...... come on Gats.  Come get your prize, that's a puddy cat ......................... Wink

O shoite!

GATS! don't listen to him!


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Post by Biltong on Mon 08 Jul 2013, 2:40 pm

SecretFly wrote:Sir GatlandBall of Hamiltonshire it is then.
What will the crest on his suit of armour be, a ladder? Whistle 
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Post by Cyril on Mon 08 Jul 2013, 2:46 pm

Biltong wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Sir GatlandBall of Hamiltonshire it is then.
What will the crest on his suit of armour be, a ladder? Whistle 
The crest will be raspberry

with the following motto:
morte ad dubitantium (death to the doubters).

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Post by fa0019 on Mon 08 Jul 2013, 2:49 pm

Biltong wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Sir GatlandBall of Hamiltonshire it is then.
What will the crest on his suit of armour be, a ladder? Whistle 

 A fire breathing, green kiwi perhaps.... being crushed by a springbok???? (Given his involvement in the 09 tour as Forwards coach)

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Post by Sin é on Mon 08 Jul 2013, 3:25 pm

GunsGerms wrote:
Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:
Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
Cyril wrote:Wouldn't the knighthood be sanctioned by the NZ government and then awarded by the Queen?

In which case it's up to NZ really isn't it?

Beating Aus might be a reason for NZ to think it's a worthy honour?

Not necessarily - there's nothing stopping Britain awarding knighthoods to foreigners. It'd just mean the string of letters after the name would be "KBE" rather than "KNZM" if NZ awarded it.

A knighthood cannot be awarded to an Irish person without approval from the Irish govt.

 Ah, OK. I was assuming that generally rules were similar to the UK/US situation - US citizens constitutionally are barred from accepting titles from foreign nations, but "honourary" ones (IE where the person doesn't use the title) are OK.
Actually you might be right. You need Irish government approval to use the title ala Sir Tony O'Reilly.

I think you'd have to have a big ego to request govt. approval to get a title.

I always find it very uncomfortable when for example I go to a restaraunt and the waiter calls me Sir.


You need to be a subject of the Queen (be eligible/hold British citizenship/member of the Commonwealth). Irish citizens can't be swearing allegiance to the Head of a Foreign State (apart from Ireland being a Republic so doesn't approve of honorary titles).

Tony O'Reilly could use his because he was eligible for British citizenship because he was born prior to 1949 (Ireland was still a Free State up to 1949).

Any Irish citizens who have received honorary awards (Niall Quinn for example) don't go to Buck Pallace - its delivered to them by the British Ambassador in the British Embassy in Dublin. (Quinn had to get permission from the Irish Gov. to receive it).


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Post by gregortree on Mon 08 Jul 2013, 3:30 pm

Biltong wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Sir GatlandBall of Hamiltonshire it is then.
What will the crest on his suit of armour be, a ladder? Whistle 

Laugh
or a '"Working at Height Safety Harness" sign.
and for his symbolic knights weapon, a Gatling gun.

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Post by Biltong on Mon 08 Jul 2013, 3:59 pm

gregortree wrote:
Biltong wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Sir GatlandBall of Hamiltonshire it is then.
What will the crest on his suit of armour be, a ladder? Whistle 

Laugh
or a '"Working at Height Safety Harness" sign.
and for his symbolic knights weapon, a Gatling gun.
laughing  Excellent.
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Post by dragonbreath on Mon 08 Jul 2013, 5:09 pm

maestegmafia wrote:I would wait until Wales win the next RWC at HQ...!

But would he get one if they beat England in the final, or would he be deported. I think we all know the answer to that: whistle: 

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Post by GloriousEmpire on Mon 08 Jul 2013, 5:55 pm

sirtidychris wrote:Why would it be ridiculous ?, i know everyone on these boards seems to hate him but his success with Wales has been immense followed by his success with the lions, surely that is what a knighthood is based on ?. I think he would be a good candidate in about 5-7 years after another lions tour and a world cup as late 40's is a bit young.  

Its such a british thing to knock anyone that has success, SCW has done something no one else in the NH has ever achieved and given the english public a moment in history never to be forgotten. He then has had some failures...(Lions/football) and some more success (olympics role) but everyone wants to tear him to pieces and call him a joke. Same with sir ian, he has been one of the best most respected rugby coachs/managers of all time but all anyone bangs on about is his failed tenure at Bath, where he ended up a coach down and in a role he never signed up for.

One of the biggest legacies of the RWC 11 and this lions tour is how the media and fans have changed into the same mindset as most football fans, looking to tear anyone apart given the slightest sign of weakness or disagreement, it happened as soon as the lions squad was announced, through to almost every test and selection decision, from the word go every pundit and 'fan' seemed to be baying for blood!. The vitirol was to such an extend gatland's whole family was under attack to the point that he almost quit before the last test !!! and the fall out from the RWC has sent Martin johnson, one of englands greatest rugby hero's into rugby wilderness, lost to the sport at the top level.

I dont care if i like a person's charcater as portrayed on the few newspaper and media clips i see, i care about whether that person has the respect of the squad/coaches and people close to him and the results. SCW, SIM and Gatland have achieved great things in rugby that most people will only ever dream about and they deserve every accolade and award avaliable.

Which success with Wales?

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Post by HammerofThunor on Mon 08 Jul 2013, 6:03 pm

GloriousEmpire wrote:
sirtidychris wrote:Why would it be ridiculous ?, i know everyone on these boards seems to hate him but his success with Wales has been immense followed by his success with the lions, surely that is what a knighthood is based on ?. I think he would be a good candidate in about 5-7 years after another lions tour and a world cup as late 40's is a bit young.  

Its such a british thing to knock anyone that has success, SCW has done something no one else in the NH has ever achieved and given the english public a moment in history never to be forgotten. He then has had some failures...(Lions/football) and some more success (olympics role) but everyone wants to tear him to pieces and call him a joke. Same with sir ian, he has been one of the best most respected rugby coachs/managers of all time but all anyone bangs on about is his failed tenure at Bath, where he ended up a coach down and in a role he never signed up for.

One of the biggest legacies of the RWC 11 and this lions tour is how the media and fans have changed into the same mindset as most football fans, looking to tear anyone apart given the slightest sign of weakness or disagreement, it happened as soon as the lions squad was announced, through to almost every test and selection decision, from the word go every pundit and 'fan' seemed to be baying for blood!. The vitirol was to such an extend gatland's whole family was under attack to the point that he almost quit before the last test !!! and the fall out from the RWC has sent Martin johnson, one of englands greatest rugby hero's into rugby wilderness, lost to the sport at the top level.

I dont care if i like a person's charcater as portrayed on the few newspaper and media clips i see, i care about whether that person has the respect of the squad/coaches and people close to him and the results. SCW, SIM and Gatland have achieved great things in rugby that most people will only ever dream about and they deserve every accolade and award avaliable.

Which success with Wales?

 They've beat some other NH sides.

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Post by Sin é on Mon 08 Jul 2013, 6:07 pm

dragonbreath wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:I would wait until Wales win the next RWC at HQ...!

But would he get one if they beat England in the final, or would he be deported. I think we all know the answer to that: whistle: 

Willie John McBride (regarded as one of the greatest Lions as player & coach) hasn't been knighted, why should Gatland be knighted for a position he got well paid for.


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Post by Portnoy's Complaint on Mon 08 Jul 2013, 6:12 pm

Bobby Moore never got knighted. Nor has Martin Johnson Sin e.

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Post by SecretFly on Tue 09 Jul 2013, 10:27 am

GloriousEmpire wrote:

Which success with Wales?

Thrashing a side that thrashed New Zealand? And now thrashing Australia under a Lions banner?

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Post by HammerofThunor on Tue 09 Jul 2013, 1:34 pm

SecretFly wrote:
GloriousEmpire wrote:

Which success with Wales?

Thrashing a side that thrashed New Zealand?  And now thrashing Australia under a Lions banner?  

 And Ireland thrashed a side that thrashed a side that thrashed New Zealand. Surely Kidney deserves one first. Ireland also beat Australia while next door.

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Post by SecretFly on Tue 09 Jul 2013, 2:08 pm

I'm only trying to be Lionistic Hammer.... supporting the local outfits, and all that malarchy. I've been told off on these threads for being too Irish so I'm trying to practice common-love to see what it feels like.

Secretly, between me and you, it don't feel natural and I won't be continuing with the treatment plan for much longer as I think it might endanger my cyclops-eyed, tribal patriotism. Wink

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Post by HammerofThunor on Tue 09 Jul 2013, 2:19 pm

I didn't think it was possible to be too Irish.

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Post by SecretFly on Tue 09 Jul 2013, 2:24 pm

The Welsh Parliament is about to declare war on us, Hammer.  Very hot weather to be sandbagging as we wait for the air-raid sirens but they'll never forgive us for never forgiving Gatland, who never forgives.

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Post by HammerofThunor on Tue 09 Jul 2013, 2:28 pm

Don't worry. There isn't a Welsh Parliament. It's just an Assembly (like at school). The Scots are the ones ones you want to watch out for.

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Post by rodders on Tue 09 Jul 2013, 2:34 pm

HammerofThunor wrote:I didn't think it was possible to be too Irish.

Ian Paisley begs to differ angel 
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