Champions League Group Stages

First topic message reminder :

The draw is tonight and we could have some potentially crazy strong groups, Manchester City have a 50% chance of being in the same group as Bayern Munich or Barcelona.

What is the tie everybody wants to see in the group stages?

^ knows

mystiroakey wrote:you mean the team that got battered by napoli who afer got battered by the pl's 4th team?

That's what I call Premier League superiority over all the minor foreign leagues.

Its not that I particularly agree with your point, good sir, I could see United busting to pieces too. When United play poorly, City have shown on multiple occasions that you can tear them apart.

Chelsea are just much better at living in limitations and playing a different way. Basically, Chelsea are at their best when they're ugly

mystiroakey wrote:rubbish olly- bayern have allways been good, but a team like chelsea or united would have had a game plan and been much harder to beat. Citeh haven't go that ability.

Well we might see later in the competition if you are correct  

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Its not that I particularly agree with your point, good sir, I could see United busting to pieces too. When United play poorly, City have shown on multiple occasions that you can tear them apart.

Chelsea are just much better at living in limitations and playing a different way. Basically, Chelsea are at their best when they're ugly

thats not the point- the point is you have two teams that understand bayern and would respect bayern and would have put up a much better showing than what citeh do in europe.

Its that simple, anyone arguing that has a short memory

Olly wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:rubbish olly- bayern have allways been good, but a team like chelsea or united would have had a game plan and been much harder to beat. Citeh haven't go that ability.

Well we might see later in the competition if you are correct  

 it doesn't mean they will win!!

but i guarantee they would have had better shape and respected the threat of bayern,. Citeh looked like napoli did last night. No clue about the team they are facing, I backed villa against them at the weekend for the exact same reason(not stating that villa are anywhere near bayerns class of course)

mystiroakey wrote:

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Its not that I particularly agree with your point, good sir, I could see United busting to pieces too. When United play poorly, City have shown on multiple occasions that you can tear them apart.

Chelsea are just much better at living in limitations and playing a different way. Basically, Chelsea are at their best when they're ugly

thats not the point- the point is you have two teams that understand bayern and would respect bayern and would have put up a much better showing than what citeh do in europe.

Its that simple, anyone arguing that has a short memory

But then Dortmund ripped Madrid a new one, not hearing the same of them? Sometimes the best team in the world will come and batter you, and that happened tonight. There isnt a team in the Premier League that doesnt have a good few deficiencies this year, thats why it will be so good.

Bayern only just about scraped past Chelsea in the Super Cup. I can see The Blues pipping them over two legs. Arsenal are to only team to have had a clean sheet vs Bayern in 88 games, and I think they could probably run them close as well. Utd are nearing a shambles at the mo' and I cant see them not getting massacred, but February is a long way away. Barca were made to be stripped to pieces by Bayern, they just cant defend. So in order of likelihood for teams to beat Bayern

Chelski
Real (although at the moment they too would also probably get sparked)
Borussia
Arsenal
Utd

Negredo's goal was top notch tonight, any player in the world would be proud of it. Just pure class.

City just looked way below Munich tonight. Many players having an off game. Fernandinho hasn't impressed me at all this season and he looked poor tonight. Richards and Nassastic (spelling) looked out of there dept. 

United with a fair enough point, tough place to go.

Love Champions League night with a passion!

Dophin- I am talking about citehs deficiencies. Which is clear to anyone with eyes. 

There deficiencies are actually about not understanding their own rather than having them .

The way they played today was a joke, they thought they could compete on a footballing level- There were wrong! and they have been continuously wrong in europe- this team should have got out of the cl groups every year- the fact they haven't shows they underperform

Bayern looked good as expected. Could be the first team to successfully defend the trophy. Not many teams go to the Etihad and come back with a win.
A draw for United away against a tricky team isn't a bad result. However, I think they needed a win to help relieve the pressure of Moyes.

mystiroakey wrote:you mean the team that got battered by napoli who afer got battered by the pl's 4th team?

A 2-1 home win v a team that played an entire half with 10 men after the keeper got sent off and were holding on for grim death at the end was not a battering.

I would love to think arsenal could compete with bayern but i just cant see it to be honest.

I think they have to play one way at the moment and its great football, but bayern is one team that would show up there deficiencies,,

United have personal that have competed before and can retain a defensive shape when needed. If arsenal don't have the ball they may have issues. I still put them top of the pile in the PL but against bayern  i would put united and chelsea above them


top clubs in europe at this moment in time

1. bayern
2. madrid
3. arsenal
4. athletico
5, chelsea
6. barca
7. united
8. dortmound

PSG?

Yes PSG , good side- but truly remind me of a french citeh

But with 6 points from two games and a +6 GD.

citeh scored 4 in there first. If psg had played bayern could you see a different outcome. and if citeh played olympiakos and benfica i would expect the same.

You can only beat what's put in front of you, PSG have several players that can match up with the best in the world, not the total depth that a Bayern have certainly but they have the ammunition in their locker to give any of the traditional big guns a tonking.

you could say exactly the same about citeh, but neitherr team has the experience at this level and both flake out against the bigger guns, but can ruin lesser teams

PSG are very unknown at this level

 they have one quarter in the CL in what is it 20 years or something?

When have PSG 'flaked' so far against the bigger guns?
They've played Barca in the Qtrs last season and went out on away goals, drawing both games.

And the same could easily be said against Dortmund, the season prior they were heralded after a great domestic season yet then bombed in the CL. The season after they come top of a group of a group containing Real, City and Ajax, then beat Real again in the semis. Don't base everything purely on past results, results and records have bearing but they are there to be broken.

The only quarter they have got in to in ollys and dutys lifetime's

I cant rate them with the other 8 mentioned. Its like rating sweden internationally because they got to a quarter and went out on pens or something.

Yes they have had two good wins against lesser opposition but thats all, citeh would have done the same.. They are in a very similar boat to citeh great players , no team as of yet.

As we are all pl fans we realise how to get a result out of barca, ye si will admit i couldn't see Citeh doing that, but man for man (on paper) we could, and that is a one off from a historical point of view.

Yes i have put atletico up there which is possibly a reason to also include another good up and coming side- But i just think atletico have real shape and real options

Hero wrote:And the same could easily be said against Dortmund, the season prior they were heralded after a great domestic season yet then bombed in the CL. The season after they come top of a group of a group containing Real, City and Ajax, then beat Real again in the semis. Don't base everything purely on past results, results and records have bearing but they are there to be broken.

i only started bringing up boobie for tat results after you mentioned the dortmund bayern game.

dortmund have pedigree in the cl, citeh and psg don't

Who from the current Dortmund side prior to last year had Euro pedigree?

Whilst at PSG...Ibrahimovic, Silva, Maxwell, Motta, guys with many seasons of CL experience.

I am talking about the team not individuals obviously..

Actually just looking at their record it is also pretty poor CL wise!!

BUt the final last year is a very good reason to have them up there.

When you look at the pl clubs records they are on another level bar the top teams like madrid, barca and bayern.

Lets see what PSg can do against a top side, and hopefully Citeh will get out of this group for once!

Saw the games from last night, Bayern were different class. Hart, Fernandinho, Clichy & Richards.....woeful. Not sure I agree with United getting a point is a good result. Yeah, historically it was a tough place to go but they've lost significant talent over the last 12 months. Shakhtar were terrible last night, were there for the taking. Fellaini proved last night that he's nowhere near good enough for that level. Shocking first touches, lethargic & just too slow. He was getting swamped left right & centre by quicker, more technically gifted players, luckily enough Shakhtar offensively were poor & nothing came of Fellaini losing possession. Not a surprise to see him get substituted though by Moyes. You saw what Bayern did to Yaya Toure, who is heralded in the EPL, imagine Fellaini up against Bayern.....won't look pretty. Both Manchester's will progress but from then on it's uncertain for further progress. PSG are a quality side, proved it last year & they've strengthened even more with Cavani & Marquinhos. Lucas has another year under his belt, expect at least a QF/SF again from PSG.

Impressed with Draxler from Schalke too, another German to come off the production line.

Arsenal against Dortmund, and Schalke home to Chelsea tonight.

A win for Arsenal, I fancy them to win 2-1, will make it 3 wins out of 3, and will almost make progression to the knockout stages certain. Quite a turn-around from the horrific start to the season they endured.

Chelsea are under a different kind of pressure. Schalke have won both games thus far, without conceding a goal, and will be confident on their home ground - the very same ground where England were cheated against Portugal 7 years ago. If Chelsea lose tonight, they could very well be staring exit in the face. Think it'll be a dull 0-0 draw though.

Chelsea have only won once in Germany. 10 years ago at Stuttgart and the only goal was an own goal.

Schalke got dismantled by Bayern like 4-0 @ Schalke about a month ago, OAP Pizzaro was running the show. If Chelsea are to be taken serious, games like this should be won. Huntelaar is injured, just keep Draxler quiet & they should win.

Arsenal/Dortmund - draw for me. Flamini missing too.

Man City @ CSKA - truly huge game in my opinion for City. If they lose then they are going to have to get a result in Munich you feel.

Man Utd/Sociedad - I actually think the Champions League homes games for United are considerably easier than the EPL games, fully expect a home win for Moyes. Should ease some pressure but not for too long.

I have to go with 3 wins and a man u draw!

and they have the worst team!

John makes a good point on Flamini missing, when he went off at the weekend it certainly allowed us to get a foothold in the game (made us more vulnerable at the back though)

Some tough matches to call tonight

not that bothered about flamini to be honest. Arsenal should have enough possession to do the business,

Against a team that's as good on the counter as Dortmund, he'll be a real miss

we will see,

predictions

arsenal 2-1 Dortmund
marseille 0-1 napoli
celtic 1-1 ajax
porto 1-0 st petersburg

chelsea 1-1 schalke

really looking forward to arsenal v dortmund tonight, cant see how it wont be a great game

Dortmund are on great league form as well arnt they!- only 1 loss and 1 draw  in 9

Schalke: Hildebrand, Uchida, Howedes, Matip, Aogo, Jones, Neustadter, Clemens, Meyer, Draxler, Boateng. Subs: Fahrmann, Hoogland, Felipe Santana, Kolasinac, Goretzka, Fuchs, Szalai.

Chelsea: Cech, Azpilicueta, Terry, Cahill, Ivanovic, Oscar, Ramires, Lampard, Schurrle, Torres, Hazard. Subs: Schwarzer, Luiz, Mata, Mikel, Willian, Eto'o, Bertrand.

Referee: Viktor Kassai (Hungary)

-----------------------------

Arsenal: Szczesny, Sagna, Mertesacker, Koscielny, Gibbs, Ramsey, Arteta, Wilshere, Ozil, Rosicky, Giroud. Subs: Fabianski, Vermaelen, Monreal, Cazorla, Bendtner, Jenkinson, Gnabry.

Borussia Dortmund: Weidenfeller, Grosskreutz, Subotic, Hummels, Schmelzer, Bender, Sahin, Blaszczykowski, Mkhitaryan, Reus, Lewandowski. Subs: Langerak, Hofmann, Aubameyang, Kirch, Schieber, Papastathopoulos, Durm.

------------------------------------

Celtic: Forster, Ambrose, Lustig, van Dijk, Mulgrew, Samaras, Pukki, Kayal, Izaguirre, Stokes, Forrest. Subs: Zaluska, Biton, Ledley, Balde, Rogic, Atajic, Fisher.

Ajax: Cillessen, Van Rhijn, Veltman, Denswil, Blind, De Jong, Poulsen, Serero, Andersen, Sigthorsson, Fischer. Subs: Vermeer, van der Hoorn, Boilesen, Klaassen, Schone, Hoesen, De Sa.

Referee: Ivan Bebek (Croatia)

TORRESSSS!!!!!!!!!

Arsenal 0-1 Dortmund 0 Mkhitaryan

Silly from Ramsey giving it away there.

Reality check. Dortmund dominating early, deserve lead.

come on arsenal dig deep lads.

I have to say the fact that the ref tonight is richer then most the players on the pitch is hilarious   Fair play to him sticking at refereeing despite being multi millionaire

What's his story?

Apparently he owned 15% of an swedish media company called IEC and sold it for millions but decided he was happy to keep refereeing

ta,

1-1

Arsenal 1-1 Dortmund - Giroud

Poor from the keeper wimped out of it