Is bale really worth 86 million?

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Post by socal1976 on Thu 05 Sep 2013, 7:58 am

This is nuts I don't see how Bale can possibly be worth two Ozils or a Cavani and a Fellaini combined. I rate Bale quite highly, I think he has been a top three player in the premier league the last two years. Madrid essentially sold Higuain and Ozil to get Bale? Higuain is an Argentine international with a lot of caps at a young age in a period where Argentina are bursting with forwards and strikers, and Ozil is the German Zidane, albeit not as good as Zidane. I mean if a team plays Higuain and Ozil the duo is good for 35 goals and 20 assists, can Bale put up that kind of production? I mean Cavani lead Italy in Goals and is young as well and Bale is 30 plus million more? I mean just a year ago united bought Van Persie for a fraction of a price. Is Bale a year later worth two and half times Van Persie? The way I read this deal is that Madrid is in disarray. For the amount of money they have they should win every year but they just have to tear their team and coaching staff up every year and create and allstar team that Barcelona invariably gets the better of because they are a team.

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Post by Sam on Thu 05 Sep 2013, 9:14 am

He's definitely not worth two Hazard's and a Mata Cool 

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Thu 05 Sep 2013, 9:27 am

Well it depends...Real are a business. Its not just about what he does on the pitch...its how marketable he is OFF the pitch.

Real obviously feel he is a very marketable comodity and that they will make money...and dont forget its only really 40 million they need to make back as they've already made 40m from Ozil going...

On the pitch...Ronaldo and Bale on either flanks or one down the middle is potentially fireworks...

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 05 Sep 2013, 2:19 pm

To Spurs he was, and at the end of the day, that's pretty much all that mattered once Perez decided he had to have him
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Post by Ent on Thu 05 Sep 2013, 3:06 pm

No.

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Post by NickisBHAFC on Thu 05 Sep 2013, 4:47 pm

Not a millions miles a way, but he is the 3rd best player in the world and he is 24. Could be money well spent or could be a complete flop. Most people on here will hope its a flop.

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Post by socal1976 on Thu 05 Sep 2013, 5:54 pm

NickisBHAFC wrote:Not a millions miles a way, but he is the 3rd best player in the world and he is 24. Could be money well spent or could be a complete flop. Most people on here will hope its a flop.
I don't know if I would rate Bale as top 3, maybe top 5 and certainly top 10. Messi, Ronaldo, and Neymar all three in my opinion have bags full more technical ability and all have pace like Bale has so Bale is at best the 4th best attacker in the world let alone player. I don't know, I mean I also don't think Cavani is worth as much as he was bought for either. Ozul on the other hand I can see be 40 somethings player, Bale maybe high sixties but that is my own ham handed evaluation.

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Post by socal1976 on Thu 05 Sep 2013, 6:03 pm

Olly wrote:To Spurs he was, and at the end of the day, that's pretty much all that mattered once Perez decided he had to have him
That is my point, spurs jobbed Real madrid. The entire club of fulham was recently purchase for a bit more than Bale and the money shipped out for Bale is enough to buy a team of players. In the long run I think tottenham will easily replace bale's production with the players they bought. However it is a temporary setback of large proportions in the short term for the spurs. I can't see them blending and better than they where this year in comparison to last year.

The way I see this deal is that Arsenal made out like a wolf let into the sheep's pen by the farmer Perez himself. The Spurs did well in the deal in the long term but lose in the short term. And Madrid made a huge mistake and overpaid by probably 30 percent for this player in my opinion.

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Post by kingraf on Thu 05 Sep 2013, 7:03 pm

Never doubt Perez's business acumen, the guy is billionaire. The first El Clasico has already been given a midday Kick off, to accomodate Asian viewers. Ozil was a great player, but Perez operates a business, occasionally, we get lucky and his ridiculoud spending sprees get us a trophy, generally, we can only brag about us being the richest club in the World due to the fact that Perez builds brands not teams
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Post by GSC on Thu 05 Sep 2013, 7:06 pm

No footballer is, but such is Madrids marketing policy, that 86m is a drop in the ocean
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Post by Hero on Thu 05 Sep 2013, 7:41 pm

He's worth it to all parties involved. Spurs get a ridiculous amount of cash with which they can legitimately challenge for at least 4th spot with whilst Real Madrid acquire a new poster boy that will sell merchandise by the bucket load and easily recoup the 86m.

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Post by socal1976 on Thu 05 Sep 2013, 11:31 pm

Hero wrote:He's worth it to all parties involved. Spurs get a ridiculous amount of cash with which they can legitimately challenge for at least 4th spot with whilst Real Madrid acquire a new poster boy that will sell merchandise by the bucket load and easily recoup the 86m.
Well I guess Madrid was about winning titles and being the kings of Europe and all, I didn't know their prime objective was to sell shirts. I know they are business but the brand is based on 9 european titles, and I can't see them winning many more European titles by completely overhauling their team every year to sign the hot and trendy signing. Yes they have won some trophies the last couple of years but they have been distant second to Arsenal over the course of nearly a decade now and have not lifted a European trophy because of this circus. Get a great coach, get great players, keep them so they gel and then win big trophies that is all takes with REal's money and their return on investment has not been great since the Zidane days. The money is based on them being the kings of Europe and dumb impulse buys and constant managerial and player ferris wheel is not conducive to that.

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Post by Champagne_Socialist on Fri 06 Sep 2013, 2:42 am

NickisBHAFC wrote:Not a millions miles a way, but he is the 3rd best player in the world and he is 24. Could be money well spent or could be a complete flop. Most people on here will hope its a flop.
No way is he top 3, he is lucky to be top 10 to be honest.

Ronaldo, Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Pique, Ramos, Neymar, Cavani, Falcao and ribery are all better than him.

Bale is a great player but he is not worth 86 million pounds. Madrid have a lot of money, Madrid needed a superstar player to please their fans, tottenham wouldn't sell Bale for less than 86 million, thus madrid spent 86 million.

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Post by socal1976 on Fri 06 Sep 2013, 5:15 am

Champagne_Socialist wrote:
NickisBHAFC wrote:Not a millions miles a way, but he is the 3rd best player in the world and he is 24. Could be money well spent or could be a complete flop. Most people on here will hope its a flop.
No way is he top 3, he is lucky to be top 10 to be honest.

Ronaldo, Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Pique, Ramos, Neymar, Cavani, Falcao and ribery are all better than him.

Bale is a great player but he is not worth 86 million pounds. Madrid have a lot of money, Madrid needed a superstar player to please their fans, tottenham wouldn't sell Bale for less than 86 million, thus madrid spent 86 million.
Yeah have to agree with most of your list, I see Bale as a top ten type of player. He is not clearly the best player in the EPL. Arguably, Suarez and Van Persie had better years last year even Mata I think posted numbers that were comparable when you look at goals and assists combined. Ribery and Robben are two that are as good if not better than bale. I would rate Bale better than Cavani though. But your point in general is correct Bale is not in the same league as Ronaldo and Messi and those other guys on the list in terms of technical skill. That is what makes this Madrid move really silly, they spent 86 million and shuffled around some star players are they going to be better selling 5 or 6 players a year and buying 5 or 6 new ones. To me it seems that buying players beyond a need and beyond a reasonable price and constantly changing coaches and the core of your team ends up working against Madrid's goal of winning a european title again. Barca has won because they have had pretty much the same core for years, Madrid redesigns itself every year and that is no formula for winning champion's league title if you ask me.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Fri 06 Sep 2013, 4:30 pm

No.

Unless you're Azzy, in which case yes.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Fri 06 Sep 2013, 4:32 pm

NickisBHAFC wrote:Not a millions miles a way, but he is the 3rd best player in the world and he is 24. Could be money well spent or could be a complete flop. Most people on here will hope its a flop.
Not sure he's even top3 in the EPL!!

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Post by The Special Juan on Fri 06 Sep 2013, 4:35 pm

How marketable is Gareth Bale? He looks like an ape and is Welsh. That's two massive negatives right there. I suppose only time will tell.

Please note I am at least attempting to be funny with the Welsh jibe but he does look like an ape.
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Post by TopHat24/7 on Fri 06 Sep 2013, 4:41 pm

Exactly. Let's not make him out to be the next David Beckham. Real made his fee back by Xmas, ain't gonna be doing that with monkey boy.

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Post by socal1976 on Fri 06 Sep 2013, 5:46 pm

They may sell shirts of Bale, but I doubt they will sell many posters. Imagine waking up in the morning to Bale looking down at you as wake up, he looks like a neanderthal with a 400 dollar haircut. And I have to agree that I don't rate Bale as being clearly the best player in the EPL and he may not even be in the top three.

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Post by kingraf on Fri 06 Sep 2013, 5:47 pm

TSJ - Thats a good question. Only 25, 000 (some say 15, 000) came to his unveiling. Compared with the 80, 000+ for Ronaldo. I think his acquisition has made in-roads into the Asian market, but how many glory-hunters are suddenly going to become Madridistas because we have Bale? He isnt going to rival Ronnie for image charges either. Ronaldo, imo was probably worth £80m, because he is an extremely special player, and because he is extremely marketable, his shirt sales are projected to have grossed nearly a billion at the end of his deal in 2015. Not too mention the bums on seats he puts on at every tour, the extra income generated via TV deals which were made with him as the face. Bale is, by his own admission the second banana (ha ha ha), Im sure we will make the money back, but there will be no Ronaldo-esque cash flow
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Post by Crimey on Fri 06 Sep 2013, 6:36 pm

Bale simply isn't as marketable as Ronaldo for me, he's a bit boring really.

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Post by Guest on Sat 07 Sep 2013, 11:07 am

Yeah, I see your point Crimey about his marketability but that can change. Yeah, he's not going to be as 'big' as Ronaldo but he's still very marketable. If he continues or improves his form from Spurs at Madrid, scoring the type of goals he did last season, then people are going to stand up and take notice, regardless of him image. He's such a supreme, physical specimen, just like Ronaldo and his potential is unlimited really. Just look a Andy Murray, absolute bore, dull & moody, yet his public perception has changed and he's got huge fan bases in the US now. He's also signed multi-million dollar sponsorship deals with Adidas and is a world superstar in Tennis nowadays. Things change & if a sportsman is successful, then the marketability is not in question & Madrid know that.

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Post by compelling and rich on Sat 07 Sep 2013, 1:02 pm

iniesta is easily the third best player in the world for me, then theres not much between bale and the rest of them. neymar is totally unproven in a top league yet and has only really been playing friendlies for Brazil, no way you put him above the likes of iniesta yet.

dont even see ribery as top player in bayern let alone top 5 in the world, the euro vote was a joke anybody could see someone like lahm has been much better for bayern yet he's not a glory boy.

cant believe someone could put ramos in that list and not kompany, if ramos played in a different league and different team he'd soon be found out. his art of defending is fouling. proper headless chicken

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Post by The Special Juan on Sat 07 Sep 2013, 1:17 pm

kingraf wrote:TSJ - Thats a good question. Only 25, 000 (some say 15, 000) came to his unveiling. Compared with the 80, 000+ for Ronaldo. I think his acquisition has made in-roads into the Asian market, but how many glory-hunters are suddenly going to become Madridistas because we have Bale? He isnt going to rival Ronnie for image charges either. Ronaldo, imo was probably worth £80m, because he is an extremely special player, and because he is extremely marketable, his shirt sales are projected to have grossed nearly a billion at the end of his deal in 2015. Not too mention the bums on seats he puts on at every tour, the extra income generated via TV deals which were made with him as the face. Bale is, by his own admission the second banana (ha ha ha), Im sure we will make the money back, but there will be no Ronaldo-esque cash flow
I do feel a bit sorry for Bale. Ronaldo was unquestionably the best in the world when he moved clubs (the season before Messi really stepped it up) and the Madrid fans knew they were getting the best. With Bale, he isn't the best. He's not second best. He may not even be third, fourth or fifth best. He may well succeed at Madrid but he'll never have anything like the adoration Ronaldo has.
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Post by The Terror of Tylorstown on Sat 07 Sep 2013, 1:23 pm

I'm going to assume that the apparent money that Ronaldo has generated has come from Madrid and Ronaldos people.

Lets say in years his shirt sales do exceed £1bil, that's £133mil a year which would account for more than a third of Madrids average turnover during that people which I just don't believe at all. It's the usual tactic of Madrid to try and justify paying such a large sum and I don't remember him selling that number of shirts while at United and it's because it's not true.

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Post by kingraf on Sat 07 Sep 2013, 3:55 pm

key word is gross, Tylor. Adidas still need to take their quite large cut, add in shipping and the sort... He sold a million shirts in Madrid alone for a few years now. Whether you believe it or not is another matter. Ronaldo sells like hot cake mate.
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Post by socal1976 on Sat 07 Sep 2013, 5:17 pm

Yeah I wouldn't put Ramos anywhere approaching the 20 frankly, CR. But I also don't see Bale as being a clear cut top 3 player. I don't know if Neymar is unproven he has been playing quite well for brazil's national team and has been the focus of their squad for 2 years now. He also has lead the Brazilian league in goals and won championships I believe with Santos. Yes the brazilian league is not a top 4 european league, but there is still a lot of quality there. Also the brazilian national team usually is not were quote "unproven" players star.

I would rate Bale myself behind messi, ronaldo, iniesta, ya ya, for sure; I do think he is a top ten player in the world and possibly top 5 depending on what you are looking for.

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Post by Guest on Sat 07 Sep 2013, 5:57 pm

Messi, Ronaldo - Top Level (genuine world class)

Iniesta, Falcao, Cavani, Ozil - Second Tier (sheer quality, proven at every level)

Bale, Van Persie, Neymar, Ribery, Ibrahimovic, Lewandowski - Third Tier (some unproven but media plaudits move them into this catergory like bale/neymar)

Mata, Aguero, Rooney, Silva, Reus - Fourth Tier (quality players but don't have the standout ability to go higher, as of yet, depending on age for example Reus)

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Post by compelling and rich on Sat 07 Sep 2013, 6:10 pm

not sure i have cavani up there in second tier, you give me a option to sign someone id have bale, rvp, neymar , lewandowski all over him easily

not sure he's proven on every level either as ive seen him numerous times poorly for Uruguay and his scoring record for country is pretty poor. he's only really done it in a pretty poor italian league

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Post by The Special Juan on Sat 07 Sep 2013, 6:13 pm

John wrote:Messi, Ronaldo - Top Level (genuine world class)

Iniesta, Falcao, Cavani, Ozil - Second Tier (sheer quality, proven at every level)

Bale, Van Persie, Neymar, Ribery, Ibrahimovic, Lewandowski - Third Tier (some unproven but media plaudits move them into this catergory like bale/neymar)

Mata, Aguero, Rooney, Silva, Reus - Fourth Tier (quality players but don't have the standout ability to go higher, as of yet, depending on age for example Reus)

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Post by compelling and rich on Sat 07 Sep 2013, 6:33 pm

The Special Juan wrote:
John wrote:Messi, Ronaldo - Top Level (genuine world class)

Iniesta, Falcao, Cavani, Ozil - Second Tier (sheer quality, proven at every level)

Bale, Van Persie, Neymar, Ribery, Ibrahimovic, Lewandowski - Third Tier (some unproven but media plaudits move them into this catergory like bale/neymar)

Mata, Aguero, Rooney, Silva, Reus - Fourth Tier (quality players but don't have the standout ability to go higher, as of yet, depending on age for example Reus)

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yeah you could easily throw kompany and lahm right up there

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Post by kingraf on Sat 07 Sep 2013, 7:11 pm

I would justify unGodly sums of money for Iniesta. The guy is a pleasure to watch, a true artist of the game. Almost like the Roger Federer of Football.
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Post by Hero on Sat 07 Sep 2013, 7:51 pm

Whilst I'm a big fan of Falcao you'd have to have Ibrahimovic at least in the same pot, the guy collects a league winners medal at every club he moves to.

Top tier: Messi, Ronaldo, Iniesta, Xavi
2nd tier: Ibrahimovic, Fabregas, Ribery, Ozil, Lahm, Pirlo
3rd tier: Bale, Cavani, Falcao, RVP, Suarez, Vidal, Schweinsteiger, Alonso,
4th tier: Rooney, Mata, Aguero, D. Silva, Hummels, Lewandowski, T. Silva, Ramos, Kompany, Piqué, Kroos, Muller, Toure, Thiago, Chiellini

5th tier: The next gen: Reus, Neymar, Pogba, Verratti, Isco, Hazard, Illarramendi, Gundogan, Rodriguez, Draxler, Lucas, Varane, Marquinhos, Lamela, Eriksen, El Sharaawy, Muniain, Kovacic, Kondogbia

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Sat 07 Sep 2013, 8:12 pm

Bale no way third tier.

5th, or 4th at an extreme push maybe.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Sat 07 Sep 2013, 8:12 pm

My god you've got Pique in there as well!!! Shocked

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Post by kingraf on Sat 07 Sep 2013, 8:22 pm

Think Mata is a level above Rooney quite honestly, and thats without my usual anti-Rooney rhetoric.
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Post by The Special Juan on Sat 07 Sep 2013, 8:27 pm

Hero wrote:Whilst I'm a big fan of Falcao you'd have to have Ibrahimovic at least in the same pot, the guy collects a league winners medal at every club he moves to.

Top tier: Messi, Ronaldo, Iniesta, Xavi
2nd tier: Ibrahimovic, Fabregas, Ribery, Ozil, Lahm, Pirlo
3rd tier: Bale, Cavani, Falcao, RVP, Suarez, Vidal, Schweinsteiger, Alonso,
4th tier: Rooney, Mata, Aguero, D. Silva, Hummels, Lewandowski, T. Silva, Ramos, Kompany, Piqué, Kroos, Muller, Toure, Thiago, Chiellini

5th tier: The next gen: Reus, Neymar, Pogba, Verratti, Isco, Hazard, Illarramendi, Gundogan, Rodriguez, Draxler, Lucas, Varane, Marquinhos, Lamela, Eriksen, El Sharaawy, Muniain, Kovacic, Kondogbia
Are you only rating Chiellini based on his rating a few years ago? Smile
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Post by The Terror of Tylorstown on Sat 07 Sep 2013, 8:28 pm

Hero wrote:Whilst I'm a big fan of Falcao you'd have to have Ibrahimovic at least in the same pot, the guy collects a league winners medal at every club he moves to.

Top tier: Messi, Ronaldo, Iniesta, Xavi
2nd tier: Ibrahimovic, Fabregas, Ribery, Ozil, Lahm, Pirlo
3rd tier: Bale, Cavani, Falcao, RVP, Suarez, Vidal, Schweinsteiger, Alonso,
4th tier: Rooney, Mata, Aguero, D. Silva, Hummels, Lewandowski, T. Silva, Ramos, Kompany, Piqué, Kroos, Muller, Toure, Thiago, Chiellini

5th tier: The next gen: Reus, Neymar, Pogba, Verratti, Isco, Hazard, Illarramendi, Gundogan, Rodriguez, Draxler, Lucas, Varane, Marquinhos, Lamela, Eriksen, El Sharaawy, Muniain, Kovacic, Kondogbia
Can't say I agree with much of that

Top Tier: Messi, Ronaldo, Iniesta
Second Tier: Van Persie, Ozil, Ribery, Bale, Lewandowski
Third Tier: Suarez, Rooney, Schweinsteiger, Mata, Aguero, Pirlo
Fourth Tier: Cavani, Falcao, Silva, Alonso, Toure, Soldado, Modric, Hazard, Isco, Gundogan

How the likes of Ramos and Pique get rated so highly when the lack the most vital ingredient of being a good defender and that's being able to defend.

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Post by Guest on Sat 07 Sep 2013, 8:37 pm

haha, glad my tier system proved very debatable. did the job. agree ramos is absolutely diabolical at defending. i like that next gen tier, if i had the time i would of done this tier rating properly but couldnt be bothered, still very interesting.

i think one thing for sure is that the top tier should be messi & ronaldo on their own. iniesta is brilliant but he's not on a level to those two. the rest is all up for debate.

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Post by Hero on Sat 07 Sep 2013, 8:41 pm

The Special Juan wrote:
Hero wrote:Whilst I'm a big fan of Falcao you'd have to have Ibrahimovic at least in the same pot, the guy collects a league winners medal at every club he moves to.

Top tier: Messi, Ronaldo, Iniesta, Xavi
2nd tier: Ibrahimovic, Fabregas, Ribery, Ozil, Lahm, Pirlo
3rd tier: Bale, Cavani, Falcao, RVP, Suarez, Vidal, Schweinsteiger, Alonso,
4th tier: Rooney, Mata, Aguero, D. Silva, Hummels, Lewandowski, T. Silva, Ramos, Kompany, Piqué, Kroos, Muller, Toure, Thiago, Chiellini

5th tier: The next gen: Reus, Neymar, Pogba, Verratti, Isco, Hazard, Illarramendi, Gundogan, Rodriguez, Draxler, Lucas, Varane, Marquinhos, Lamela, Eriksen, El Sharaawy, Muniain, Kovacic, Kondogbia
Are you only rating Chiellini based on his rating a few years ago?  Smile
Was excellent again last season, Barzaghli warrants a mention as well on last season.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Sat 07 Sep 2013, 8:42 pm

Yeh, I agree Messi n Ronaldo are just on a whole level of their own.

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Post by The Terror of Tylorstown on Sat 07 Sep 2013, 8:42 pm

I'm probably alone in this but I think Iniesta as a key man for both Barcelona and Spain has proved himself to a degree that neither Messi or Ronaldo has.

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Post by Hero on Sat 07 Sep 2013, 8:45 pm

No one else has put Xavi in their lists?

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Post by Hero on Sat 07 Sep 2013, 8:45 pm

The Terror of Tylorstown wrote:I'm probably alone in this but I think Iniesta as a key man for both Barcelona and Spain has proved himself to a degree that neither Messi or Ronaldo has.
Completely agree, that's why he's in the top tier for me.

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Post by Guest on Sat 07 Sep 2013, 8:47 pm

Top tier - messi/ronaldo

iniesta's special tier

then the second tier

happy Very Happy

xavi was world class....'was'. without doubt would of been on the second tier but he's faded badly over the past 18 months. cant control or dictate the big games no more and his achilles injury hinders him. thts why cesc has probably stayed because he knows xavi's time is probably nearly up

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Sat 07 Sep 2013, 8:52 pm

John wrote:Top tier - messi/ronaldo

iniesta's special tier

then the second tier

happy Very Happy

Laugh clap thumbsup 

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Post by Hero on Sat 07 Sep 2013, 8:53 pm

He's still far and away the best passer of the ball in Europe, yes the lights are fading on his career but there's no better puppetmaster in the game at this moment.

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Post by socal1976 on Sat 07 Sep 2013, 10:42 pm

Hero wrote:He's still far and away the best passer of the ball in Europe, yes the lights are fading on his career but there's no better puppetmaster in the game at this moment.
I would take Ozil right now over Xavi as a player, ozil is 24 and Xavi as great as he is a bit passed it. I can't believe my gunners got OZil!!!!!!!

Am I the only one enamored by Yaya, I really think he is clearly one of the ten best players in the world. Barca should have never let him go and right now they would have busquets and Yaya as twin anchors in the midfield? I also agree with anyone who put Chiellini in there, yes he has become older but he is one of those wine like aging italian defenders. I would have him and Kompany as my starting central defenders in my dream 11.

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Post by Crimey on Sat 07 Sep 2013, 11:05 pm

Yaya Toure was a pretty poor last year, I think he's massively overrated, he hasn't been the dominating force he once was for quite a while now and it would take a huge upturn in form for me to consider him one of the best central midfielders in the world. Fantastic player on form, he hasn't hit the same kind of form for over a year.

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Post by Guest on Sat 07 Sep 2013, 11:14 pm

yaya is one of those players who makes a big impact, blows his energy and then goes missing for 10 minutes before his next surge of energy. agree, poor last year but he has started this season on the up. he never suited barca's style or technical ability with the ball. yaya does not pass and move, he runs with power. they also had him playing centre back for a while, which never suited him. not surprised he moved.

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