Raikkonen set to join Ferrari next season

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Post by dyrewolfe on Tue 10 Sep 2013, 12:48 pm


Kimi Raikkonen is on the verge of being confirmed as a Ferrari driver for next year's Formula 1 season.

The Finn's deal to rejoin the team for whom he won the world title in 2007 is said to have been completed on Monday and could be announced imminently.

Raikkonen, 33, will be team-mate to Fernando Alonso, world champion in 2005-6, completing arguably the strongest driver line-up in Formula 1.

The decision would end Brazilian Felipe Massa's eight-year spell at the team.

Kimi Raikkonen set to join Fernando Alonso at Ferrari


Interesting decision by Ferrari.

While having 2 former world champions will undoubtedly give them the strongest line-up of any team, I do wonder how those two will work together.

We all know Alonso is used to being top dog in the team. Can anyone really see Kimi settling for being the new Felipe Massa?

If they choose to switch to an equal driver policy, will we see Fernando thowing his toys out of the cockpit again? Or will he rise to the challenge and drag the team to a new level?

If the team struggle to provide a competitive car next season, will we again witness Kimi skulking around in midfield, only putting in token quick bursts towards the end?

Given the team's development struggles of late, it looks like the bulk of that work will once again be left to Nando and the test/reserve drivers.
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Post by Guest on Tue 10 Sep 2013, 2:34 pm

Think we'll see a genuinely competitive Ferrari next year. Why would they risk this line up together, paying their huge salaries, if they think or thought they were going to have a difficult season next year. I full expect the Ferrari engine will deliver a high performance & they have a great reliability record, unlike RB with numerous issues with KERS. The reshuffle behind the scenes will also improve Ferrari & Allison will add a lot of depth to the development side of the team, which has been lacking.

I don't think there will be a no.1 or no.2, until its mathematically impossible for one of them to win. There both experienced & professional enough to do the job & they respect each others ability. Thoroughly looking forward to seeing this line up in action.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue 10 Sep 2013, 2:43 pm

Sorry John but I must disagree on a number of points. Just because Ferrari (it appears) will have two top drivers next year it is no guarantee they will close the gap on Red Bull - for evidence of that look at Button and Hamilton line-up at McLaren. As for the development side so Ferrari have James Allison but you are overlooking that Red Bull have Adrian Newey - the king of designers with world title designed cars at multiple teams. He, to F1 car design, is the master of his art - unparalleled so Red Bull have the upper hand in that area as well. The Ferrari hasn't exactly delivered high performance this year so it would be clutching at straws to think they will have it next year but will concede KERS issues in Webber's Red Bull this year may manifest itself again next year for RB and if so that may hinder them slightly.
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Post by dyrewolfe on Tue 10 Sep 2013, 4:09 pm

Well, I guess the best hope we have is that the new engine and other regs will throw everyone slightly off kilter, so hopefully no one team will dominate the season.

Red Bull have been the leaders in aerodynamics for the last few seasons and I doubt that will change. However they have had reliability issues.

Ferrari and Mercedes don't appear to be all that far away. If you could give Ferrari the Silver Arrows quali performance and Mercedes Ferrari's race performance, you'd have two very good teams.

McLaren appear to need a miracle to get them back to their last peak around 2007-08. Hopefully Honda's involvement will spark a revival in fortunes.

I think Ferrari are almost in the Last Chance saloon as far as car development goes. Both Alonso and Raikkonen are less than chuffed with their current situations, so if next years' car can't challenge for race wins, early on, they are going to have a pair of very unhappy bunnies on their hands (and thats before you get to any potential personality clashes).

They've taken a calculated risk, bringing Kimi on board and now have 2 of the best drivers available on their books for next season. Now the engineers need to deliver with the 2014 car.
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Post by Guest on Tue 10 Sep 2013, 6:30 pm

Having two brilliant drivers guarantees nothing, all im saying is they must have confidence in next years car, especially if they want to pay those huge salaries, they will want some reward. Just because there off form this year, doesnt mean they will fail next year. Caledonian, your pretty negative in your views & you make it out like RB have won next years title too. These regulation changes are huge and don't represent at all what will unfold next year.There is no guarantee whatsoever RB being the fastest car next year, it`s a complete game changer the 2014 regs and in particular engine regulations, something Newey is not king of, unlike aerodynamics. You make it out as if not having Newey is basically meaning you've failed and there's no point in even turning up. Has Newey won every year with his designs, no.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue 10 Sep 2013, 7:09 pm

Aerodynamics are vitally important now in F1 and Adrian Newey is streets ahead of what the other teams have - that is my point. He has designed world title winning cars for Williams, McLaren and now Red Bull and this year will be his 10th world title winning car that he has designed.

As for next year there is no guarantee that the engine regulations will be good for Red Bull but equally no guarantee they will suit Ferrari either. We can only go on what we know just now and we come back again to Adrian Newey. If engine regs handicap Red Bull then that handicap is somewhat negated by Newey's areodynamics wizardry who will squeeze time out of the car unlike other car designers can do.
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Post by GSC on Tue 10 Sep 2013, 7:18 pm

This is a mistake if Alonso stays
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Post by GSC on Tue 10 Sep 2013, 7:56 pm

Massa confirms he's off.

Straight swap to Lotus could make sense. Could be him or Hulk to replace Kimi
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Post by Bull on Tue 10 Sep 2013, 8:03 pm

Told ya! Its happing heard here first!

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Post by Fernando on Tue 10 Sep 2013, 8:07 pm

It would of helped if you were like 2-3 days behind everyone Bull.

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Post by GSC on Tue 10 Sep 2013, 8:07 pm

Ill have to come on the next dogging session to get this inside info Bullbo
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Post by Guest on Tue 10 Sep 2013, 8:49 pm

Not sure how Alonso staying is a mistake???? Mistake for who? The team haven't won a constructors/drivers title since 08`, there making a decision to get rid of a bad driver for a world class driver. People reading too much into this inter team battle or rivalry. Vettel being prioritised & Ferrari not having a no.1 is your main issue, but that's only if RB are dominant in a new era of regulations, which is not certain.

Hulkenberg has already held discussions with boullier over the move last month, full expect him to join. Massa has said,`its Ferrari or nobody`, in reply to his future in f1. You can see he doesn't have the passion or drive to compete anymore. Shame but he's not good enough anymore.

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Post by GSC on Tue 10 Sep 2013, 8:52 pm

Alonso has no interest in an inter team battle and Kimi isn't leaving Lotus to be a #2. Expect more shenanigans.

Having 2 lead drivers hurts them in the world title hunt. Alonso knows this
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Post by Guest on Tue 10 Sep 2013, 9:04 pm

GSC wrote:Alonso has no interest in an inter team battle and Kimi isn't leaving Lotus to be a #2. Expect more shenanigans.

Having 2 lead drivers hurts them in the world title hunt. Alonso knows this
I do agree but I just think its a great move for F1 in general, Kimi n to Alonso. It will give him the kick up the backside to refocus. Its a new challenge, something that a professional should embrace n be hungry to win. It got to easy for Fernando with massa.

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Post by GSC on Tue 10 Sep 2013, 9:08 pm

Alonsos just gonna stick his dummy out. That's why he wanted Massa to stay, he doesn't give a toss about Ferrari.
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Post by Guest on Tue 10 Sep 2013, 10:04 pm

If you look at the wider picture, this is no long term fix for Ferrari. I mean Alonso n kimi r 30+. I think its quite obvious who will replace one of them in 2015 or beyond, if the so called shenanigans unfold. Certainly once Vettels done n dusted with RB n needs a new challenge, Ferrari will be the destination.

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Post by GSC on Tue 10 Sep 2013, 10:16 pm

Kimi gets a 1 year deal with another 1 year option

Expect elbows out from Alonso
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Post by bogbrush on Wed 11 Sep 2013, 7:10 am

Good move; you can bet Alonso has now been told that any more lip and he's gone. He will find it impossible to tolerate the strong team allegiance that Kimi will attract and will eventually go.

The team cohesiveness is more important than anything. Ferrari have made a good step in that direction.
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Post by Mad for Chelsea on Wed 11 Sep 2013, 9:15 am

it's true that for all the talk of Vettel not having a competitive teammate (which is true), Alonso's had a competitive teammate (who beat him) for one year so far in his career. It's also true that Alonso at Ferrari hasn't quite worked out so far, people raved about what Alonso brought to the car at Renault (the mythical 7 tenths or whatever it was), but it hasn't happened at Ferrari so far, and this season there's been a sense that team and driver are getting increasingly frustrated at each other.

With that in mind, this isn't a surprising move. Alonso won't like it much you'd think, but it looks to me like Ferrari are going for proven quality if/when they and Alonso finally get fed up with each other to the point where Alonso leaves.

Intersting times ahead, for sure.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Wed 11 Sep 2013, 9:18 am

John wrote:Having two brilliant drivers guarantees nothing, all im saying is they must have confidence in next years car, especially if they want to pay those huge salaries, they will want some reward. Just because there off form this year, doesnt mean they will fail next year. Caledonian, your pretty negative in your views & you make it out like RB have won next years title too. These regulation changes are huge and don't represent at all what will unfold next year.There is no guarantee whatsoever RB being the fastest car next year, it`s a complete game changer the 2014 regs and in particular engine regulations, something Newey is not king of, unlike aerodynamics. You make it out as if not having Newey is basically meaning you've failed and there's no point in even turning up. Has Newey won every year with his designs, no.
What I would say to offer you some comfort is that Ferrari have Rory Byrne back designing the 2014 car. As designers go he is as close as you can get (success-wise) to Newey but still not quite in his class. He has come out of retirement so providing he hasn't lost touch with things it will be interesting to see what extra pace his design will bring.
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Post by Guest on Wed 11 Sep 2013, 10:25 am

As I said, with these new engine regulations & next years importance of a strong, reliable KERS package, nothing is guaranteed. Mercedes are getting stronger and stronger, will possibly have the strongest engine and have assembled an array of technical staff who are now understanding which direction the team want to go down. Judging by this year's car, things are looking very good for 2014. Ferrari, indeed now have two world class drivers. They have also re-shuffled the technical staff and having Rory Byrne & James Allison on board is a huge step.

Regulation changes are something which the dominant team fear most. It brings uncertainty for them & excitement for us. This year has basically turned into a bore-fest and if this modified 2013 RB, in the hands of Vettel, produces what it did this time last year, then things are going to get even worse.

As for Massa, does anyone really believe he's staying in the sport. No chance for me. He says he wants to join another competitive team and win a championship but there's nothing out there, Hulkenberg is a dead cert for Lotus.

Sorry for cramming some much in but if the expected shenanigans unfold at Ferrari and Kimi beat Alonso, I think it's safe to say Vettel will join Ferrari alongside his friend Kimi in 2015 and then Alonso could possibly get his desired wish of joining Red Bull. Where Newey would be at that time is an unknown though.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Wed 11 Sep 2013, 10:42 am

There have been incremental regulation changes for every season now for a long time and they haven't unshipped or unsettled Red Bull yet and like I said before EVERY team has to adapt to regulation changes so there is just as much chance that Ferrari will be affected by them as Red Bull. The fact that Red Bull are where they are gives them an advantage. I see what you are saying John that this year has not been packed with rivetting racing but Red Bull dominating is no different from say when Ferrari were dominant in the early to mid-2000's.

With Massa I do have some degree of sympathy for him. Ferrari have left it too late to off-load him as it leaves him with precious little alternatives. Red Bull, Mercedes and McLaren's driving line-up is sorted and it may be too late for him to muscle in on a move to Lotus. If he really wants to stay in F1 the most competitive team that may have a spare seat seem to be Sauber but could they afford his wages?

As for Vettel joining Ferrari in 2015 I think that is a very good shout as cannot see Alonso remaining there.
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Post by banbrotam on Wed 11 Sep 2013, 1:00 pm

It's obvious that Luca Di Montezemolo, who makes Bernie look earnest and sincere, is still narked by what he perceives is Alonso's dodgy attitude

It's a giggle that he replaces him with a driver who he thought was so bad, he paid him off to stay away and amazingly thought he was a better driver than Rob Smedley, sorry I mean Massa Wink 

There's one problem with Ferrari and it isn't the drivers or the current team boss!!

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Post by banbrotam on Wed 11 Sep 2013, 1:10 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:With Massa I do have some degree of sympathy for him. Ferrari have left it too late to off-load him as it leaves him with precious little alternatives. Red Bull, Mercedes and McLaren's driving line-up is sorted and it may be too late for him to muscle in on a move to Lotus. If he really wants to stay in F1 the most competitive team that may have a spare seat seem to be Sauber but could they afford his wages?

For me Massa is the most ordinary driver of top team, arguably in history. He manages to make Hill look like Senna and Webber like James Hunt

And before anyone mentions 2008, please let's remember for the first 6 to 8 races they had easily the best car. This was to such a degree, McLaren took to an adventurous three stop strategy at Turkey - in order to hopefully disrupt the Top 2. It worked as Hamilton ended up 2nd after a brilliant drive. Massa then went onto be given umpteen other advantages as the stewards decided that they didn't need Hamilton winning (I jest - let's not get distracted by that situation, it still riles me today!!)

Mind you in fairness, you could understand why Kimi wasn't in favour. Even Hamilton spectacular crash into him, at the pits at Canada, couldn't muster any emotion!!

Back to the point. I don't see Massa doing anything with any car, because he's hardly done anything with Ferrari, i.e. do you think he'll get more out of a Lotus than the current drivers

Classic case of a very ordinary driver, given an extraordinary chance and showing that sometimes it is all about the driver

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Post by GSC on Wed 11 Sep 2013, 1:26 pm

I think Massa is a good driver, not a great one perhaps. He needs his edge back though, and he was never going to get it as Alonsos Chauffeur.

Team up with Brawn at Williams?
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Post by Guest on Wed 11 Sep 2013, 1:46 pm

GSC, it's plausible Massa @ Williams and teaming up to make an all south-american line-up with Maldonando. They would have to keep Pastor because, let's face it, he essentially brings all the money to the table and keeps them going. Dropping Bottas would be a difficult decision for them but he hasn't blown me away, for someone that was so highly regarded, with some people even creaming themselves over.

I think Massa's days are over, he'll go to another formula of motorsport. His ability has dropped severely, there's no passion or drive there anymore in my opinion to compete in this sport at the elite level.

Kimi Raikkonen confirmed for two years then, will take him to 35 years old. Going to be exciting two years for Kimi, he'll just turn up and drive the wheels off the car, he won't give a **** about Alonso & then at the end of 2015, he'll call it quits on his career. During that time, Vettel will either partner Kimi at the start of 2015 and replace Alonso or Vettel will eventually replace Kimi in 2016.

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Post by GSC on Wed 11 Sep 2013, 1:53 pm

I think a fresh start could do wonders for Massa. Hes never been able to recapture that spark thanks to Alonsos dictatorship.
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Post by SteveG on Wed 11 Sep 2013, 1:57 pm

The easier decision was to sign Hulkenberg and keep their incumbent number one happi-ER so well done Ferrari for serving up a mouth watering clash - a victory for the punters. It seems Ferrari wanted to remind Alonso who was in charge. However can't help but feel it will be Vettel who has the widest grin this morning because if Ferrari ARE competitive next season then their drivers will no doubt be taking points off each other.

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Post by Guest on Wed 11 Sep 2013, 2:10 pm

Yeah, have to agree. It's an exciting head-to-head clash and a victory for the fans. I reckon Luca's said, 'Look, bella fernando, i've had enough of your lip, your not the big boy round here, i'm bringing in someone who's actually won me a title at this team, unlike you'. That should be motivation enough for Alonso to re-ignite his f1 career. Luca then says, 'you lost to a young hamilton in a head to head, prove your so deserving of more titles and go and beat kimi in a head to head, otherwise, you look like a muppet who in fact was over-rated all along.'

i just think luca's plan is to blow the old no.1 plan out the window, take this risk in getting kimi, hope they spur each other on and as a side-product, hopefully there points vacuuming ability can at least grab a constructors title, while ricciardo is still learning and could be a weakness. something along those lines,


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Post by Mad for Chelsea on Wed 11 Sep 2013, 2:20 pm

"so Kimi, Fernando is faster than you. Can you confirm you understood the message?"

Kimi's response?

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Post by GSC on Wed 11 Sep 2013, 2:20 pm

**** off
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Post by banbrotam on Wed 11 Sep 2013, 2:22 pm

I seem to remember him been spectacular but erratic, a sort of younger and more naive version of the much missed Montoya

Then he became, just er, safe and this was around the time Kimi joined. He did what everybody thought (at the time) that Hamilton should have done when he had his debut season - accept that he was a No.2

Once you do that in life, you're compromising yourself

Might be that if he gets one of the new up and coming teams and they give him the respect he deserves (I like him by the way) then maybe that old fire will come back

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Post by SteveG on Wed 11 Sep 2013, 2:23 pm

Mad for Chelsea wrote:"so Kimi, Fernando is faster than you. Can you confirm you understood the message?"

Kimi's response?
Lets just say that SKY/BBC will need to keep their bleeper handy. Laugh

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Post by Guest on Wed 11 Sep 2013, 2:23 pm

Laugh  I can't wait for next season

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Post by Bull on Wed 11 Sep 2013, 3:07 pm

Sure it won't be "I don't give a Poopie?" Laugh Laugh 

TOLD YOU ALL IT WAS HAPPING!

BULLING NEWS AT IT AGAIN"!

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Post by beninho on Wed 11 Sep 2013, 3:39 pm

Its easy to knock down Massa, but for a couple of years he was not far off Kimi at Ferrari, and outscored him in 2008. That accident knocked the stuffing out of him though, and he should have been cut before this year.

Fernando has yet to be outscored by a team mate ( i believe) And i reckon he will be the same next year. I love Kimi, but i think Fernando is a better driver.

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Post by SteveG on Wed 11 Sep 2013, 4:15 pm

not outscored (a chinese gravel trap technicality) but still beaten.

Agree that Alonso will rise to the challenge and shade it against Kimi.

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Post by dyrewolfe on Wed 11 Sep 2013, 4:34 pm

Think some are being unduly harsh on Massa. He has shown (albeit inconsistently) that he can be a very good driver.

It must be hard though, to keep your motivation and put in your very best, when you know you're only playing 2nd fiddle to your more illustrious team mate.

If he still wants to drive, going to a lesser team where he will get equal treatment could do him a world of good. Might not win any silverware, but at least he might start to enjoy the sport again.

It'll be interesting to see whether the Kimi experiment works any better second time around. The car will have to be good, because Ferrari won't be getting much, if anything, in the way of technical development or PR out of him...he just drives.

As far as the Kimi / Fernando relationship goes, I can see Alonso having issues if Raikkonen emerges as a serious threat to his title ambitions. That said, with LDM keeping a close watch on him, he may either bite his tongue, or tell his agent to get looking for a new drive. If they're both in the mix with few other drivers, it probably won't be such a problem.

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Post by bogbrush on Wed 11 Sep 2013, 6:03 pm

I felt for Massa. He tried, he had his moments, but I've never seen a driver put in the situation he was in qualifying for Monza the other day. It was humiliating.

The sting in the tail was him out qualifying Alonso. Most amusing.
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Post by beninho on Wed 11 Sep 2013, 6:08 pm

From what I've read at Ferrari it is ldm that has needed to be talked into taking Kimi back. So I think Fernando is still the golden child at Ferrari. Maybe just not as gold as he was. And to be fair he has driven pretty well over the last few years just up against a better all round package.

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Post by beninho on Wed 11 Sep 2013, 6:11 pm

Massa has only been in the situation he has been in by not being good enough at the start if the season's recently. If he had picked up more points he would have not been made number 2 so early each year.

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Post by Fernando on Wed 11 Sep 2013, 7:10 pm

Lotus F1 Team
@Lotus_F1Team

So #Kimi is off to #Ferrari for 2014; it hurts a little bit… #F1 #Raikkonen pic.twitter.com/HkFhWvqpTo

Raikkonen set to join Ferrari next season BT4XcJXCAAAeVMl

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Post by Guest on Wed 11 Sep 2013, 8:11 pm

It's a tough loss for Lotus, I just hope they don't just lose momentum now and fall away. They've lost their main driver & James Allison and there's no guaranteed financial backer in place. Ferrari had to get a driver of Kimi's quality in, you can't allow a driver of that standard to filter away to a key rival. Is Rob Smedley going to be Kimi's engineer then?

I wonder what the bosses at McLaren are thinking right now too. They've lost Paddy Lowe, Hamilton & Raikkonen was there for the taking and they've missed out on him too. They now don't have Vettel, Alonso, Hamilton or Raikkonen at the team. I've been distinctly unimpressed with Perez this year, okay, the car was not competitive but I just don't think Button & Perez is the line-up to challenge these elite drivers for 2014 and beyond. I also think it's quite conceivable that Mercedes will also be giving McLaren the cold shoulder next year, in terms of engine development and information. I'm expecting another tough year for McLaren next year.

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Post by GSC on Wed 11 Sep 2013, 8:15 pm

Didn't some rich blokes buy a stake in the team.

Massa wouldn't be the worst gamble they take. Proven performer like Kimi. Reliable option an hope Grosjean finds the consistency
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Post by CaledonianCraig on Wed 11 Sep 2013, 8:16 pm

Okay it will initially be a blow to Lotus but surely in the long term it may make sense. Kimi is into his 30's now and can't have many years left in him. At least now that their hand has been forced Lotus can push the boat out to get a younger talent in who has many years in front of them. Would love to see Di Resta move there as Force India seem to be going backwards.
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Post by Guest on Thu 12 Sep 2013, 1:26 pm

Yeah, as long as they make the right decisions & are financially secure, no reason why they should not still be competitive. As Boullier said, `we now have the most attractive seat available left for 2014 & we are still a strong team`. Fully expect Hulkenberg to be announced, without doubt the best option available.

Boullier is not bitter he says & I believe him. What Ferrari have done is risky, not success guaranteed & is a short term fix to their issues, whereas Lotus can focus on getting Hulkenberg in, saving on Kimi`s huge salary & redirecting that money to the development side of the team to improve the car.

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Post by Fernando on Thu 12 Sep 2013, 2:07 pm

Hulkenburg & Grosjean are a meh partnership i wouldn't trust them to develop the car between them. You need a top driver in one of your seats. Personally id take Massa over what's available despite being stuck as no.2 given equal opportunity he'd go well at Lotus and bring decent experience.

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Post by Guest on Thu 12 Sep 2013, 2:48 pm

You have no real idea of the actual development abilities of Hulkenberg or how good his technical feedback is. Agree, Grosjean is just a scruffy kid, doesn't look intelligent at all, appears dumb in interviews & crashes more often than not. I'm sorry, but Hulkenberg walks all over Massa in terms of ability & he`ll prove it once he's given the opportunity. Massa is mentally shot in this game. Once its gone, its incredibly difficult, if not impossible to get the speed, confidence & consistency back.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 12 Sep 2013, 2:53 pm

I agree with John here. For Lotus Hulkenberg would be the right man for the job. Massa is a spent-force now and the only way for him now is down - he has lacked the pace and the aggression for a few years now. Remember as well that Hulkenberg was also tipped to replace Massa at Ferrari.
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Post by Fernando on Thu 12 Sep 2013, 3:08 pm

Pace wise Hulkenburg clearly has talent so there is something letting him down somewhere. Id still take Massa due to experience look at the teams for next season

RB - Vettel - Ricciardo - Experience & Youth
Mclaren - Button - Perez - Experience & Youth
Mercedes - Both still fairly young and have experience of many season
Ferrari - Two world champions
Lotus - A crash happy kid & a German who's had at the end of this year 3 seasons in F1 4 if you include being test driver for a year. It's hardly a frightening or winning combination. 

Whilst Massa may be mentally gone as you say he'd be a tutor for younger drivers, He still has the pace and when he's allowed to compete he can comfortably drive with the best on the grid. Personally i think Lotus would be very foolish to not match Youth and experience and can see it causing Sauber issues with Sirotkin & Gutierrez next season.


Hulkenburg has been tipped with every top drive in F1 over the years, Red Bull,Ferrari & Mclaren yet never seems to get it.

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