SA tour of Pak(UAE)

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Post by subhranshu.kumar.5 on Mon 14 Oct 2013, 6:39 am

First topic message reminder :

UAE, though foreign for Pak, but it is no less then a home feeling. It was here they uprooted the World's best team, with a white wash. Now again they are on a fight with the recent best test team of the world, SA. PAK under captain Misbah and experienced Yunis, looks bit clear on their stance that they will give a strong fight.
We will get an interesting battle here.
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Post by msp83 on Thu 17 Oct 2013, 2:32 pm

They are playing only 2 tests aren't they?
Pakistan showed in their 2nd innings that they are, well Pakistan!. 7-3, and the old hands Misbah and Younis had to do it at the end.
Amla's and AB's runs, and Philander's very creditable performance are the only positives for South Africa. A couple of pretty poor batting efforts and a very underwhelming effort with the ball firsttime round.

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Post by sirfredperry on Thu 17 Oct 2013, 2:34 pm

The point is that ALL away matches in Tests are a tough call for the visitors these days. Contrast, say, NZ at home and away - completely different team.
Long gone are the days when a team coming, say, to England, would arrive late April and have about SIX weeks of warm-up matches before the first Test. SA, in particular, have been really good at staying unbeaten away from home. Eng did well in India and Australia but generally sides are a real handful when playing at home

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Post by subhranshu.kumar.5 on Thu 17 Oct 2013, 3:21 pm

sirfredperry wrote:The point is that ALL away matches in Tests are a tough call for the visitors these days. Contrast, say, NZ at home and away - completely different team.
  Long gone are the days when a team coming, say, to England, would arrive late April and have about SIX weeks of warm-up matches before the first Test. SA, in particular, have been really good at staying unbeaten away from home. Eng did well in India and Australia but generally sides are a real handful when playing at home
Agree Sir, almost all teams for now have under performed in away conditions. I hope SA will bounce back in the next match.
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Post by Guest on Thu 17 Oct 2013, 4:16 pm

watching Du Plessis, play any type of half decent spin bowler, is like watching a 4 year old trying to figure out how to do algebra!

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Post by Shelsey93 on Thu 17 Oct 2013, 5:28 pm

I have posted on here before about my doubts about South Africa's Asian record. It is often trotted out that they have done better in Asia than England and Australia, but it's not really true, at least not in the last five years or so. It is true that they have often come out of two match series unscathed - with 1-1 draws or 0-0 draws - but there is no evidence that they have been able to master conditions. On the evidence of ODI cricket, and this match, their batting line-up hardly enjoys sub-continental conditions more than England's does. And they have the added disadvantage of lacking the type of spinner that will succeed in such conditions.

In Amla and AB de Villiers they have two players who clearly have few problems in adapting. But Kallis isn't in the best of form and Smith is coming off a long injury. The rest of the line-up - Peterson, Duminy, du Plessis - are at best untested in Asia, whilst Duminy has shown weakness against spin in the past (I think he's worked on it, but still).

The lack of preparation clearly hasn't helped, particularly as most of this team hadn't played any first-class cricket in any conditions since early in the year before this tour. However, that is the way of international cricket these days.

Pakistan for their part are a very good side at home. Their batting is limited, but they have a very well balanced bowling attack. And they have enough batsmen that, in relatively benign conditions, they will win most matches they contest/

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Post by Biltong on Thu 17 Oct 2013, 6:06 pm

I think it has always been most likely for SA to stuggle more in Asia than anywhere else.

Spin is our biggest challenge, we don't really have turning wickets, therefor was simply don't produce spinners and therefor our batsmen play spin less than any other format of bowling.

If you add the conditions of Asia into the mix then it is unlikely that we will ever have a situation where bowling spin or playing spin is a strength of ours.

Having said that, I think comparable to nations such as England, New Zealand and Australia we have been successful in spite of that.
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Post by msp83 on Thu 17 Oct 2013, 6:51 pm

Think de Villiers and Amla play spin as well as anyone else in the world. Smith can fight it out against spin, and Kallis is a good player of spin bowling. That is 2 outstanding players of spin, one very good one and a nother good one. But the Pakistan quicks never let Smith settle in the first innings, he was in all kinds of trouble against Mohammad Irfan before getting out to him eventually. Petersen is an OK test player in any conditions, and never really had a chance to test himself against the spinners.
I feel South Africa are better placed than most other sides to play spin bowling in Asian conditions, but this is just a relative thing. England do have Cook, Pietersen and Prior, 3 good players of spin, and their contribution in India was most valuable last year. When Pietersen was out of form during the Pakistan series and Cook was a bit inconsistent, then they suffered big time against Pakistan a couple of years ago. But the importance difference between England and other non-sub-continental sides is that England do have Graeme Swann and they have Monty Panesar. The only other side that has a good quality test spinner among the group is New Zealand with Dan Vettori, but even at his peak, he wasn't in Swann's class, and he is passed his peak and has been mostly injured for the last couple of years. And anyways, New Zealand's batting is quite suspect against spin bowling in helpful conditions.
Should South Africa play Imran Tahir in the next game in place of Robin Peterson?

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Post by Biltong on Thu 17 Oct 2013, 6:54 pm

No, I don't think so, Tahir is simply too inaccurate.

Think back to Eksteen and Boje, neither were great spinners, but they were both accurate and economical, we need spinners that can do the containment job, they aren't going to be attacking spinners when they grow up in our conditions.
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Post by msp83 on Thu 17 Oct 2013, 7:02 pm

Biltong, you don't seem to rate Robin Peterson too much. So who'd be your option? South Africa did suffere rather badly when they went for an all pace attack last year against Australia. Even for South Africa with limited spin resources, such an approach would invite trouble more often than not.. So who would you see taking up that spin responsibilities for the side? Peterson is a capable bat as well, and his ODI performances over the last couple of yers have been quite alright for a South African spinner. And when called upon to do a limited role in the test bowling attack in the shadow of the seamers, he performed the task well in the last season, chipping in with a wicket there, a wicket here, and keeping things under control with the oldish ball. Do you the likes of Simon Harmer developing into an ninternational bowler in the near future?

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Post by Biltong on Thu 17 Oct 2013, 7:32 pm

Mike, I believe if we consider that a number of our players will be retiring in a few years, so we are wasting our time withguys like Petersen, we need to look at our youngsters.

Keshav Maharaj, age 23, can bat a bit, has a couple of centuries and fifties, he has taken over a hundred first class wickets at an average under 30.

Michael Pote, new kid on the block, age 23, granted he is a parttime spinner, but has good batting technique, can fullfil a similar role as Duminy, perhaps not right now, but in two years we should expose him.

Dean Elgar has already played ODI's, why not give him a run in a test?

Dale Deeb, age 23, can bat a bit, also has a couple of Centuries and fifties in first class cricket. Has taken near 150 wickets and by memory his average is simlar to Keshav's, he is also economical.

A spinner takes time to perfect his craft, if we test some of these youngsters one or two of them may just provide us with the quality we need, and the earlier we expose them, the more we will benefit from one of them in the long run.


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Post by msp83 on Thu 17 Oct 2013, 8:02 pm

Had a look at Keshav Maraj's record. Have to say it is impressive for a South African spinner. Don't think he has played too much of first class at the highest level of franchise cricket? But a bowling average of 27 is impressive, and his T-20 economy rate under 6 after playing 20 games quite good.
Don't SA can work with another Duminy like spinner, so the likes of Elgar can't be picked for the national squad on the basis of him being able to bowl a bit of parttime spin.
Interesting that you didn't mention Simon Harmer who played against India A recently. He too can bat can't he? You forgot him or you don't see him as international material?

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Post by Biltong on Thu 17 Oct 2013, 8:08 pm

Of the youngsters his first class recordcdoesn't stack up as well, obviously I am not a cricket fundi, so the selectors must see something in him, to ge honest I can't see any of these youngsters being worse than Robin, if you consider that if Robin does settle down it will be time to retire. Better to invest in a youngster that will give you something at the back end of his career and possibly sooner than trying these "senior" guys who only have a few years left.
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Post by msp83 on Thu 17 Oct 2013, 8:14 pm

Fair point regarding giving a relatively young spinner an opportunity. Both Peterson and Tahir are close to 35 rather than 30, and both of them haven't done much special.
As for Harmer, he has picked up a few wickets against India A as well as Australia A recently, and he has a batting average of 33. And I believe he has played more franchise level First Class cricket in comparison to the others you mentioned?

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Post by Biltong on Thu 17 Oct 2013, 8:18 pm

I will have to check, not sure how they compare relative to experience.
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Post by Biltong on Thu 17 Oct 2013, 8:22 pm

Just checked, Harmer has played 42 first class matches.

Keshav has actually played 46 first class matches, but in comparison to Harmer he has only bowled 7000 balls and Harmer 9000 balls, their economy is similar, but Kesahv's average is 5 lower than Harmer's
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Post by Gerry SA on Sat 19 Oct 2013, 10:10 am

Hashim Amla won't play second Test, as Mrs Amla is giving birth to baby Amla.

Let's a massive hole to be filled.

The only spare batsman in the squad is Dean Elgar, but with Smith and Alviro short on runs. I personally wouldn't want Elgar to bat at 3

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Post by msp83 on Sat 19 Oct 2013, 10:38 am

Is Amla's non-availability confirmed? He and AB were the form batsmen for South Africa, and the best in their lineup to play spin. A player of Amla stature would be missed regardless of conditions, but this really is a very very bad time to lose him in a must-win game in spinning conditions with Smith, Petersen and Kallis out of form.

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Post by Gerry SA on Wed 23 Oct 2013, 9:42 am

So after a lacklustre effort in the 1st Test, the Proteas are flexing their muscles in Dubai.

Hashim Amla wasn't available so Dean Elgar got a game up the order at 3.

Most interestingly Imran Tahir replaced Robbie Peterson.

At lunch on day 1, Pakistan are rocking at 60-6.

Steyn fast and furious has 2-14
Tahir has 3-18 and bamboozling his former countrymen.

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Post by FerN on Wed 23 Oct 2013, 10:02 am

Looks like the swap worked for us. I am just scared that if we can cause so much trouble with spin, Pakistan will be really difficult to face.

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Post by Gerry SA on Wed 23 Oct 2013, 10:18 am

FerN wrote:Looks like the swap worked for us.  I am just scared that if we can cause so much trouble with spin, Pakistan will be really difficult to face.
The pitch isn't that bad tbh mate.

Steyn bowling at 145kph and the Pakistanis crap themselves.

Tahir's bowled well, but not that well to have 5/26

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Post by msp83 on Wed 23 Oct 2013, 10:49 am

Goodness!. Just checked the scores. Pakistan are doing a Pakistan here!. Bowled out for 99 after comprehensively beating the world number 1 side only last week. And its not Steyn, Big Vern or Morkel who ran through them, its Imran Tahir!. The same Imran Tahir who failed to land half of his balls the last time he bowled in a test match!.

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Post by Biltong on Wed 23 Oct 2013, 11:00 am

Can anyone tell me how Tahir bowled?

I can see the pressure was on so no surprise the runs weren't flowing, but how accurate was he and was there much spin and bounce?

Cheers
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Post by KP_fan on Wed 23 Oct 2013, 11:05 am

Tahir benefitted by batsman taking him too easy under the sustained hostile pressure of pacers from the other end.
 
pak a.o 99...normal services restored Smile
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Post by Biltong on Wed 23 Oct 2013, 11:13 am

Cheers, thought as much, sadly I didn't see the innings.
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Post by Gerry SA on Wed 23 Oct 2013, 11:27 am

Nice to see Alviro being more aggressive here.

He's been short of runs in recent times and needs a big score ahead of the home summer against India and Australia.

Mohammad Irfan has received his first warning for running on the pitch and Pakistan had already blown both reviews.

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Post by msp83 on Wed 23 Oct 2013, 11:41 am

No big score for Petersen as he got out to Zulfiqar Babar in his first over. Petersen scored 26. He had reviewed the LBW call and lost, so South Africa are also one review down.
Elgar at 3, I need some real convincing that he really is test class.

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Post by Biltong on Wed 23 Oct 2013, 11:46 am

Petersen was plum, can't believe he reviewed that. Agree about Elgar.
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Post by Gerry SA on Wed 23 Oct 2013, 11:49 am

Think you guys are being harsh on Dean Elgar TBH.

The kid is an opener or number 3, yet for the Proteas he's been out of position at 6/7 thus far.

Today is his chance to grab the opening berth from Alviro, as Alviro's form slump is getting worrying now.

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Post by Corporalhumblebucket on Wed 23 Oct 2013, 12:54 pm

SA digging in here under no time pressure.  Good situation for Elgar to build a big innings.

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Post by Guest on Wed 23 Oct 2013, 1:51 pm

back to normal for Pakistan...well bowled Imran Tahir!

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Post by msp83 on Wed 23 Oct 2013, 2:19 pm

South Africa 123-3. The skipper leading from the front, batting on 64. Nightwatchman Dale Steyn giving him company at the moment. Besides Petersen, South Africa lost Dean Elgar for 23, and Jacques Kallis for 7. Saeed Ajmal with both the strikes, as Elgar was well caught by Azhar Ali clos in, and Kallis was LBW.

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Post by Biltong on Wed 23 Oct 2013, 2:22 pm

The catch on Elgar was a sharp one, they either stick or not.
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Post by Duty281 on Wed 23 Oct 2013, 2:27 pm

Test over on day 1. Very well done to South Africa for their mental fortitude on display.

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Post by msp83 on Wed 23 Oct 2013, 2:46 pm

South Africa end day one at 128-3, leading Pakistan by 29 in the first innings. Captain Graeme Smith batting on 67, and nightwatchman Dale Steyn did his job by batting out more than 6 overs. South Africa have lots of time on their hand, and they need bat as long as possible to bat Pakistan out of this test. Hashim Amla's absence was a hugh blow for the team, but South Africa's Ironman skipper hasn't let that affect the side too much.

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Post by mystiroakey on Wed 23 Oct 2013, 3:28 pm

Wow,

I would be interested to find out how much money was put on Pakistan scoring less than 100:whistle: 

Seriously

Well done SA- great start. Cementing that place at the moment! Gutted we(england) aren't playing them sooner

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Post by Guest on Wed 23 Oct 2013, 5:33 pm

game isnt over, saffers already lost 3 wickets and only lead by 29...however a first innings lead of around 240-250 would be match winning IMO..

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Post by KP_fan on Wed 23 Oct 2013, 7:22 pm

game is over.....Pak will score 150 odd in the 2nd inning.

ironically they find a Pakistani these days who hurst them...it was Raza in Zim and Imarin Tahir today.....Fawad Alam it will be when they play Aus Smile
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Post by msp83 on Thu 24 Oct 2013, 9:21 am

South Africa 198-4 at lunch. The skipper has brought up his ton!. Smith has done it again. He's not the most esthetically pleasing batsman, but he's a wonderful and effective batsman and brings his best out in crunch situation particularly in test matches. After losing the first test and without Amla here, Smith has really led from the very front. Smith is batting on 107, and AB de Villiers has moved along to 26. South Africa lead by 99.

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Post by msp83 on Thu 24 Oct 2013, 9:23 am

Pakistan managed only one wicket in the morning session, that of the nightwatchman Dale Steyn who was bowled by Mohammad Irfan for7.

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Post by msp83 on Thu 24 Oct 2013, 11:16 am

South Africa 299-4. They lead by 200. Smith on 141, AB on 86.

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Post by msp83 on Thu 24 Oct 2013, 11:20 am

The 150 up for the skipper!. Smith reaches there through 3 back to back boundaries of Saeed Ajmal.

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Post by mystiroakey on Thu 24 Oct 2013, 11:21 am

ermm. ominous.

SA on fire

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Post by msp83 on Thu 24 Oct 2013, 11:52 am

South Africa 337-4 at tea on day 2. Graeme Smith on 165, AB de Villiers on 100, and their partnership has reached 203.
South Africa lead by 238.

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Post by Gerry SA on Thu 24 Oct 2013, 12:42 pm

Once again South Africa's ironman captain revives his side.

After 5 months out, Biff proves he's still got it.

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Post by msp83 on Thu 24 Oct 2013, 1:29 pm

Double ton for the South African captain!. South Africa 412-4, Smith on 201.

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Post by kingraf on Thu 24 Oct 2013, 1:36 pm

Amla's 311 looks under fire right now as time is absolutely no issue.
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Post by msp83 on Thu 24 Oct 2013, 1:59 pm

South Africa 440-4. Smith on 217, AB on 148, and the partnership has gone pass 300, 306 as of now.

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Post by msp83 on Thu 24 Oct 2013, 2:00 pm

The 150 up for AB.

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Post by kingraf on Thu 24 Oct 2013, 2:09 pm

both men could score 300 right now
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Post by Duty281 on Thu 24 Oct 2013, 5:41 pm

Can I say game over now? Crushing.

The first test defeat made up for in resounding fashion.

Well done South Africa. clap

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SA tour of Pak(UAE) - Page 3 Empty Re: SA tour of Pak(UAE)

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