Should UKIP be involved in the TV debates.....If they keep their share in the polls ?

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Should UKIP be involved in the TV debates.....If they keep their share in the polls ? Empty Should UKIP be involved in the TV debates.....If they keep their share in the polls ?

Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:40 pm

I believe UKIP shouldn't be in the debates..........

1. They aren't a serious party in General elections.

2. They haven't any representation at Westminster.........

3. Too many chefs spoil the stew.........

4. They haven't got any policies apart from Europe........

However should they win the Euro elections there will be calls.........Not that I think they will win the Euros..............

Can only hurt the Tories if farage is there which is another reason he won't be.......SKY will definitely not have him on..and I imagine ITV/BBC will follow suit.

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Post by seanmichaels on Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:45 pm

I think it is good to have cross party representation otherwise you end up with the circus that is the US presidential battle.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:47 pm

Thing is Sean...........SNP have quite a few seats.......UKIP are there they'll think well why aren't we.......

after all they are fighting Labour in Scotland.....

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:50 pm

Latest ICM polling shows a huge gender gap in voting intention.......

Lab - 38%
Con - 30%

Men 32% say will vote Labour........
Women 45% say will vote Labour.....

Men - 32% say will vote Tory
Women 26% say will vote Tory.........

Women don't buy the Tories..........

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Post by Mind the windows Tino. on Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:56 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Women don't buy the Tories..........
Women should be home making dinner and cleaning the house.

(Just saving Sean and Jack the bother)

Mind the windows Tino.
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:58 pm

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Women don't buy the Tories..........
Women should be home making dinner and cleaning the house.

(Just saving Sean and Jack the bother)
Sexist Males - 99% - Vote Con
Under the thumb Women - 90% - Vote con Cool 

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Post by sodhat on Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:58 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Latest ICM polling shows a huge gender gap in voting intention.......

Lab - 38%
Con - 30%

Men 32% say will vote Labour........
Women 45% say will vote Labour.....

Men - 32% say will vote Tory
Women 26% say will vote Tory.........

Women don't buy the Tories..........
What, do they have a vote now?

Next you'll be telling me they can drive.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:04 pm

They can't drive we all know that, Mate ..Wink 

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Post by Duty281 on Sat Nov 23, 2013 2:09 am

If UKIP were excluded from the television debates, Nigel Farage has said: "We will provide an alternative form of entertainment on the evening."

Interesting. It's the kind of political stunt that may just work.

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Post by JuliusHMarx on Sat Nov 23, 2013 2:26 am

Duty281 wrote:If UKIP were excluded from the television debates, Nigel Farage has said: "We will provide an alternative form of entertainment on the evening."

Interesting. It's the kind of political stunt that may just work.
 
I can see the entry in the Radio Times now :-
BBC3 8.00 p.m.
"UKIPpers"
Sitcom
Members of a political party struggle to come up with a viable manifesto. Hilarity ensues.


Last edited by JuliusHMarx on Sat Nov 23, 2013 2:35 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : typo)

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Post by Rowley on Sat Nov 23, 2013 2:33 am

To be honest I don’t think UKIP should be in the debates currently, irrespective of what they may do in the current elections they currently have no seats in Westminster, that is less than the Greens, the SNP or plaid cymru and none of those get an invite. However there is a risk to excluding those at the extremes of the political spectrum as it allows them to play the victim and pick up sympathy support or publicity through milking their exclusion under claims it is fear from the major parties.

Personally I think you should give them their platform and put their policies under the same scrutiny as the other parties because like the BNP before them it quickly becomes clear that these one issue parties have no realistic or viable manifesto and that their policies largely stand up to pretty much no scrutiny.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Sat Nov 23, 2013 2:38 am

Duty281 wrote:If UKIP were excluded from the television debates, Nigel Farage has said: "We will provide an alternative form of entertainment on the evening."

Interesting. It's the kind of political stunt that may just work.
Getting an MP elected would be a good stunt they could pull..........Maybe employing David copperfield might help..

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Sat Nov 23, 2013 2:55 am

Rowley wrote:To be honest I don’t think UKIP should be in the debates currently, irrespective of what they may do in the current elections they currently have no seats in Westminster, that is less than the Greens, the SNP or plaid cymru and none of those get an invite. However there is a risk to excluding those at the extremes of the political spectrum as it allows them to play the victim and pick up sympathy support or publicity through milking their exclusion under claims it is fear from the major parties.

Personally I think you should give them their platform and put their policies under the same scrutiny as the other parties because like the BNP before them it quickly becomes clear that these one issue parties have no realistic or viable manifesto and that their policies largely stand up to pretty much no scrutiny.
Yep, BNP unravelled pretty quickly after Griffin's mediocre Question Time appearance.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Sat Nov 23, 2013 3:19 am

BNP unravelled when Labour went into opposition................However much Labour let the working class people in Luton, Bradford and other BNP strongholds down etc........A Labour government is more preferable......than a Tory coalition........

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Sat Nov 23, 2013 3:22 am

Not sure what you mean, Truss??

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Sat Nov 23, 2013 3:40 am

Most BNP supporters are generally working class people.......Many are on tax credits, looking for work or have low paid jobs.........They feel the last Labour administration let them down and blame the influx of immigrants for the lack of housing, lack of jobs etc....They feel that Blair and Brown didn't care.......Which they didn't If honest......

They took the left wing vote for granted and went right to attract Tories......Philosophy being most p***ed off left wingers wouldn't touch the BNP !!.......It kind of worked till 2010......

Now these BNP-people see an un-caring Tory coalition.....A left wing sympathiser in Miliband with a new look Labour and are willing to give him a chance because he's more likely to be for them.....

BNP get squeezed.........

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Post by Rowley on Sat Nov 23, 2013 3:49 am

Think the BNP’s main problem is Griffin, who contemptible as he is, is not a fool realised that for as long as they were an extremist party there was a glass ceiling on how much he could achieve in terms of number of votes and seats and so because of this he felt the need to take some of the rougher edges of his policies, however think the price of doing this was he alienated and lost a lot of his core support.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Sat Nov 23, 2013 3:56 am

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Most BNP supporters are generally working class people.......Many are on tax credits, looking for work or have low paid jobs.........They feel the last Labour administration let them down and blame the influx of immigrants for the lack of housing, lack of jobs etc....They feel that Blair and Brown didn't care.......Which they didn't If honest......

They took the left wing vote for granted and went right to attract Tories......Philosophy being most p***ed off left wingers wouldn't touch the BNP !!.......It kind of worked till 2010......

Now these BNP-people see an un-caring Tory coalition.....A left wing sympathiser in Miliband with a new look Labour and are willing to give him a chance because he's more likely to be for them.....

BNP get squeezed.........
Ok, see where you're coming from now, but disagree.

As whilst much of what you say is true, for me BNP folk are more defined by their attitude towards foreigners and immigration - key policy areas where, in many's eyes, Labour failed miserably (this being a view not just restricted to BNP/UKIP folk but to a couple of Labour's own ministers who admitted as much recently).

Therefore, having a more right of centre government has had a more positive effect in reducing BNP's scope for bluster and rhetoric. Hence why we now get UKIP instead which some might term 'BNP Lite'.

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Post by Duty281 on Sat Nov 23, 2013 4:13 am

UKIP are BNP lite? Yes I would agree with that.

Not that BNP have much hope with Griffin as leader - a man that, quite literally, no one likes. You only have to cross the channel to see what a strong leader of a far-right party can achieve.

UKIP have a good chance of getting some MPs in 2015, and winning the European elections next year though. The Lib Dems are dithering, the Tories are split, and Labour have another scandal (Reverend Flowers). Great time for Farage to steal the show.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Sat Nov 23, 2013 4:18 am

Duty281 wrote:UKIP are BNP lite? Yes I would agree with that.

Not that BNP have much hope with Griffin as leader - a man that, quite literally, no one likes. You only have to cross the channel to see what a strong leader of a far-right party can achieve.

UKIP have a good chance of getting some MPs in 2015, and winning the European elections next year though. The Lib Dems are dithering, the Tories are split, and Labour have another scandal (Reverend Flowers). Great time for Farage to steal the show.
Not with FPTP they don't.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Sat Nov 23, 2013 4:46 am

Protest party........With one policy........

Come 2015..........The Tory boys will be getting UKIp voters back by screaming vote UKIP get Labour........Labour will be screaming vote Lib dem get Tories.......

Both Tory and Labour shares will be up on the last election.........

39-35 or something to the Tories.........and still gridlock.........


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Post by Duty281 on Sat Nov 23, 2013 5:28 am

Well that would be one more policy than Labour currently have Wink

They think all this country's problems can be solved by taxing the bankers!

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed Nov 27, 2013 2:24 am

Labour are ahead in the polls without any..............

Sounds like good policy to not have any........

Solid 36-40% for the last 3 years.........Liberal moaners will be enough........

Build 200,000 houses
Freeze Energy prices.......
Axe the bedroom tax
Freeze business rates........

That's 4 policies by the way........

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Wed Nov 27, 2013 3:59 am

None of which will happen, FWIW. Other than maybe the third which I'd be surprised if they reneged on.

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Post by Champagne_Socialist on Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:06 am

TopHat24/7 wrote:None of which will happen, FWIW. Other than maybe the third which I'd be surprised if they reneged on.
You ndon't think they will happen is different to you don't want them to happen.

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Post by Champagne_Socialist on Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:11 am

An estimated 31,100 excess winter deaths occurred in 2012-13 - a 29% increase on the previous winter.

The Office for National Statistics data, which compares deaths in winter months with averages in other seasons, shows most of the deaths involved people over 75.

excess winter deaths are linked to low temperatures,

The charity Age UK said the figures were "shameful" and urged the government to lower energy bills so that those who are most vulnerable - the frail and elderly - can keep their homes warm during winter.

The energy regulator Ofgem has criticised the profit margins of the big gas and electricity suppliers.

Age UK's director Caroline Abrahams, said: "Excess winter deaths are preventable and today's figures are a damning indictment of our failure to address the scandal of cold homes in this country.

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Post by Duty281 on Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:34 am

Laugh

How can Labour freeze energy prices? They can't.
What are Labour going to do about the EU? Nothing
Do Labour have any economic sense? No.
Will there be loads more immigrants (and plenty of illegals) under Labour? Yes.
Will education improve under Labour? No.

It's the same old Labour, never again!

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:37 am

TopHat24/7 wrote:None of which will happen, FWIW. Other than maybe the third which I'd be surprised if they reneged on.
Just get elected and worry about U-turns later.........

40 coalition U-turns already kiddo............

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:37 am

Champagne_Socialist wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:None of which will happen, FWIW. Other than maybe the third which I'd be surprised if they reneged on.
You ndon't think they will happen is different to you don't want them to happen.
I have no believe in any politician sticking to pre-election promises, irrespective of the party or my own preferences.

What have Labour ever done to convince otherwise?

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:38 am

Duty281 wrote:Laugh

How can Labour freeze energy prices? They can't.
What are Labour going to do about the EU? Nothing
Do Labour have any economic sense? No.
Will there be loads more immigrants (and plenty of illegals) under Labour? Yes.
Will education improve under Labour? No.

It's the same old Labour, never again!
Don't be so sure Mate............36-40% ...............Is good enough !!.........Just ask Toppy !!Cool 

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:40 am

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:None of which will happen, FWIW. Other than maybe the third which I'd be surprised if they reneged on.
Just get elected and worry about U-turns later.........

40 coalition U-turns already kiddo............
U-turns on utterly meaningless and irrelevant thinks like 'pasty tax' laughing

Plus, U-turns are only relevant to people determined to get their knickers in a twist. I'd rather the right decision was made in the end.

How many billions of pounds and thousands of lives would've been saved if Labour had U-turned on Iraq/Afghanistan??

How much better off would the economy have been if Labour hadn't turned their backs on the Golden Rule, a superb piece of rational fiscal policy??

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:44 am

Vote blue go green..........

3p on fuel............

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:48 am

A levels
NHS targets
Anonymity for r*** victims......
Immigration et etc.........Rolling Eyes 

I'll leave you in CS hands...........He knows how to slap you better than I do.......

30 more than Blair in ten years.......

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Post by Champagne_Socialist on Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:54 am

Duty281 wrote:Laugh

How can Labour freeze energy prices? They can't.
What are Labour going to do about the EU? Nothing
Do Labour have any economic sense? No.
Will there be loads more immigrants (and plenty of illegals) under Labour? Yes.
Will education improve under Labour? No.

It's the same old Labour, never again!
I know under Labour up until Blair immigration was uncontrolled but didn't Labour adopt the points based system (the same system they have in Australia) for non EU migrants under Brown?

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Post by Champagne_Socialist on Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:58 am

Duty281 wrote:Laugh

How can Labour freeze energy prices? They can't.
What are Labour going to do about the EU? Nothing
Do Labour have any economic sense? No.
Will there be loads more immigrants (and plenty of illegals) under Labour? Yes.
Will education improve under Labour? No.

It's the same old Labour, never again!
I don't understand this point because as far as I am aware Labour were praised for their commitments to education. The amount of money spent on education increased under Labour and many incentives were created for poor young people to enter education eg EMA, free bus bass in london for students, maintenance grants for university students from a poor background, surestart programme for young children.

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Post by Duty281 on Wed Nov 27, 2013 5:17 am

Champagne_Socialist wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Laugh

How can Labour freeze energy prices? They can't.
What are Labour going to do about the EU? Nothing
Do Labour have any economic sense? No.
Will there be loads more immigrants (and plenty of illegals) under Labour? Yes.
Will education improve under Labour? No.

It's the same old Labour, never again!
I know under Labour up until Blair immigration was uncontrolled but didn't Labour adopt the points based system (the same system they have in Australia) for non EU migrants under Brown?
They did indeed but what real use is it? The majority of immigrants arrive to the UK from fellow EU states, and 29 million more will have free right of way in January. Three million immigrants settled in Britain under the last Labour government, with an estimated one million illegals. 600,000 overall immigrants from the EU in this country are unemployed.

Look at Sheffield today. It's a mixture of 4 cultures - British, Pakistani, Yemeni, and Roman. The city is on the brink of race riots, and you can bet there are similar scenes all over this island. There's also an incredible strain on health and education, as well as several divided communities.

But Labour don't want control of our borders - they'll leave it to Brussels.

Labour will NOT get us out of the EU if elected; they won't even offer a vote. The Conservatives say they will, I'm unsure as to whether they will or not. UKIP certainly will get us out.

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Post by Duty281 on Wed Nov 27, 2013 5:22 am

Champagne_Socialist wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Laugh

How can Labour freeze energy prices? They can't.
What are Labour going to do about the EU? Nothing
Do Labour have any economic sense? No.
Will there be loads more immigrants (and plenty of illegals) under Labour? Yes.
Will education improve under Labour? No.

It's the same old Labour, never again!
I don't understand this point because as far as I am aware Labour were praised for their commitments to education. The amount of money spent on education increased under Labour and many incentives were created for poor young people to enter education eg EMA, free bus bass in london for students, maintenance grants for university students from a poor background, surestart programme for young children.
Education, education, education. Said Tony Blair.

And we got education. A very dumbed-down education system at that, with millions of students in that time now having attained worthless degrees.

As well as the poor standard of education that now exists because of the last Labour government, PC also rules classrooms. Teachers have no real powers anymore.

We once had an education system to be proud of, but a filthy war criminal took it away from us.

No standards, no quality, everyone's equal - that's education under the Labour party.

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Post by The Fourth Lion on Wed Nov 27, 2013 6:04 pm

UKIP really are a one trick pony.

How they have acquired any political status at all is really down to the determined rantings of Farage, that has somehow managed to find a niche in the psyche of a relatively small group of noisy Little Englanders, mostly in the Home Counties.

They know they don't have a hope in hell of winning more than a couple of seats in Westminster, at best. But Farage is politically shrewd enough to know that he can split the Tory vote. With this in mind, he can pressure Cameron who doesn't have any sort of wriggle-room at the next election. You may or may not have noticed that we are in a coalition government here, because Cameron couldn't win an election outright despite challenging a discredited Labour government led by the worst Prime Minister certainly in my lifetime, probably longer.

So Farage is likely to strike a deal with Cameron not to contest marginals where the Tories need every vote they can get, on the promise of getting a "soft" ride in a couple of constituencies where UKIP do have a chance of crowbarring somebody in on the "Let's Nuke Brussels" ticket.

As for representation on TV, well, UKIP appear regularly on the Daily Politics and I do enjoy watching Andrew Neal get his sly pokes into the likes of Godfrey Bloom (who was hilarious on Have I Got News for You recently).

Good old Godfrey..... only ever opens his mouth to change feet.

We get these oddball parties come along at just about every general election, don't we..? And we always give them more prominence than they really merit. Who remembers Nick Griffin's cringeworthy appearance on Question Time in 2010...?

Didn't we just take the BNP soooooooo seriously at the time..? This time round, for BNP read UKIP. There really is no difference.

Let Farage have his platform. He is the leader of a recognised political party and our democracy is strengthened if we give him a fair hearing. If people vote for him, then that is the will of the people speaking. That's what democracy is all about.

If they don't, then it's "Thanks for coming, Nige. 'bye."

Personally, I won't be voting UKIP.

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Post by Rowley on Wed Nov 27, 2013 6:31 pm

Duty281 wrote:

Look at Sheffield today. It's a mixture of 4 cultures - British, Pakistani, Yemeni, and Roman. The city is on the brink of race riots,
With the greatest of respect I live and work in Sheffield, the claim the city is on the brink of race riots is absolute b*llocks.

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Post by The Fourth Lion on Wed Nov 27, 2013 8:27 pm

Duty281 wrote:

It's the same old Labour, never again!  I don't understand this point because as far as I am aware Labour were praised for their commitments to education. The amount of money spent on education increased under Labour and many incentives were created for poor young people to enter education eg EMA, free bus bass in london for students, maintenance grants for university students from a poor background, surestart programme for young children. Education, education, education. Said Tony Blair.

And we got education. A very dumbed-down education system at that, with millions of students in that time now having attained worthless degrees.
Actually, my daughters went to university in the 1990's / early 2000's and got excellent degrees that have been very useful to them (it cost me a bloody fortune).   The thing is, they were born in the early 80's and we were all told back then that the children of that time would be "Thatcher's Lost Generation".... that there was no hope for them.... that they would never work in their lifetimes....  The reality has been completely different.  They're now highly qualified, professional women who are happy, fulfilled and have good lives.  My eldest said to me when all this sort of rhetoric was being dredged up just before Thatcher's funeral:  "What's not to like about being born in the 80's?"

Moral of the story:  The problem with listening to political propaganda, is that you really shouldn't listen to it.

And no.  Leaving the EU wouldn't make things better.
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Post by TopHat24/7 on Wed Nov 27, 2013 8:53 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:A levels
NHS targets
Anonymity for r*** victims......
Immigration et etc.........Rolling Eyes 

I'll leave you in CS hands...........He knows how to slap you better than I do.......

30 more than Blair in ten years.......
And....?? You still think the thousands of innocent lives lost and billions of pounds spent on Iraq and Afghanistan weren't worse?

Stick to Yank politics, all that irrelevant grandstanding means something over there.

Your desperate bias has just twisted your psyche beyond repair now, blind to anything that matters if it goes against your view.

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Post by Champagne_Socialist on Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:09 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:A levels
NHS targets
Anonymity for r*** victims......
Immigration et etc.........Rolling Eyes 

I'll leave you in CS hands...........He knows how to slap you better than I do.......

30 more than Blair in ten years.......
And....?? You still think the thousands of innocent lives lost and billions of pounds spent on Iraq and Afghanistan weren't worse?

Stick to Yank politics, all that irrelevant grandstanding means something over there.

Your desperate bias has just twisted your psyche beyond repair now, blind to anything that matters if it goes against your view.
You do know 100% of conservative mps voted in favour of the war in Iraq.............obviously you didn't know or you wouldn't bring it up in a debate about labour v conservatives.


Last edited by Champagne_Socialist on Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:11 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:09 pm

And?

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Post by Galted on Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:43 pm

Rowley wrote:
Duty281 wrote:

Look at Sheffield today. It's a mixture of 4 cultures - British, Pakistani, Yemeni, and Roman. The city is on the brink of race riots,
With the greatest of respect I live and work in Sheffield, the claim the city is on the brink of race riots is absolute b*llocks.
Wouldn't get too cocky, Rowley.  We had some Romans move into our street, before anyone could blink there were aqueducts and gladiator schools all over the show.  The rioting wasn't far behind.
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Post by Champagne_Socialist on Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:47 pm

Galted wrote:
Rowley wrote:
Duty281 wrote:

Look at Sheffield today. It's a mixture of 4 cultures - British, Pakistani, Yemeni, and Roman. The city is on the brink of race riots,
With the greatest of respect I live and work in Sheffield, the claim the city is on the brink of race riots is absolute b*llocks.
Wouldn't get too cocky, Rowley.  We had some Romans move into our street, before anyone could blink there were aqueducts and gladiator schools all over the show.  The rioting wasn't far behind.
Estimated 250,000 romanians alone will move here in the next 5 years. Can the UK sustain such a massive flux of migrants in such a short period of time?

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Post by Duty281 on Thu Nov 28, 2013 12:08 am

About Sheffield, I was only saying that based on something the MP over there (David Blunkett) said.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Thu Nov 28, 2013 12:09 am

Galted wrote:
Rowley wrote:
Duty281 wrote:

Look at Sheffield today. It's a mixture of 4 cultures - British, Pakistani, Yemeni, and Roman. The city is on the brink of race riots,
With the greatest of respect I live and work in Sheffield, the claim the city is on the brink of race riots is absolute b*llocks.
Wouldn't get too cocky, Rowley.  We had some Romans move into our street, before anyone could blink there were aqueducts and gladiator schools all over the show.  The rioting wasn't far behind.
Laugh Laugh Laugh clap clap thumbsup 

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Post by Champagne_Socialist on Thu Nov 28, 2013 12:15 am

Duty281 wrote:About Sheffield, I was only saying that based on something the MP over there (David Blunkett) said.
i read that too

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Post by Champagne_Socialist on Thu Nov 28, 2013 3:23 am


"In the last five years, 63% of doctors either struck off or suspended by the General Medical Council (GMC) were trained outside the UK.

Yet they make up only 36% of doctors on the medical register."

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Thu Nov 28, 2013 3:24 am

Funny thing about all the Ed/Labour mocking on here...

Funny thing is they are odds on to win and even more odds on to be the largest party..

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