India in South Africa 2013

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Post by msp83 on Mon 25 Nov 2013, 9:24 am

First topic message reminder :

The BCCI have picked the test squad for South Africa well in advance, so the debates can also start well in time.

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Post by kingraf on Sun 29 Dec 2013, 12:04 pm

Switch hit for six from Peterson - all you can say is good Lord
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Post by kingraf on Sun 29 Dec 2013, 12:08 pm

Raining in Durban now, could cause some moisture on the deck, not what India wants.
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Post by kingraf on Sun 29 Dec 2013, 1:07 pm

DuP has been run out twice with the same guy... its actually happened to me before.
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Post by Biltong on Sun 29 Dec 2013, 1:09 pm

That was a bit of a waste.might as well have declared and saved a few overs.
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Post by KP_fan on Sun 29 Dec 2013, 1:24 pm

well India is staring at defeat unless they show resolve and bat out 100 overs.


purely from past history....i expect them to capitulate to 50-4
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Post by KP_fan on Sun 29 Dec 2013, 1:43 pm

CI shows 35 over remaining......is the light gonna hold for that long ??

Dhawan vs Steyn is a good duel.....Dhawan doesn't like to leave the short one....but instead get on top of it or hook them.
positive approach...but he must choose his deliveries selectively to put bat one.

and then he must be careful of the fuller one angled across
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Post by KP_fan on Sun 29 Dec 2013, 1:45 pm

Vijay plays a false forward defensive and pays the price......he should have shouldred arm.

nightmares coming true
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Post by KP_fan on Sun 29 Dec 2013, 2:02 pm

the quality difference between the two bowling attacks stands out on a pitch that's not particularity helpful.

The Indian batting has to rise and see of the brutal attack from the SA bowlers firing on all cylinders
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Post by msp83 on Sun 29 Dec 2013, 2:35 pm

The light is deteriorating slowly. Will Smith choose to go with Peterson and Duminy?
Haven't reached that moment yet, its Morne on at the moment and he's bowling some sharpish short ones.
India 22-1, and they are into the 17th over.

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Post by msp83 on Sun 29 Dec 2013, 2:36 pm

The Indians should play a bit more positively. To play out the overs is very important, but they shouldn't get stuck and let the bowlers bowl even better than they are doing.

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Post by msp83 on Sun 29 Dec 2013, 2:42 pm

Just feel Morne is overdoing the short ball attack against Dhawan. He has to be judicious with the short stuff really if it has to be effective against top order batsmen.

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Post by KP_fan on Sun 29 Dec 2013, 2:45 pm

India cannot be blamed for not scoring...SA has bowled a lot of short stuff and deliveries outside the off stump that India had no option but to leave.

They have batted 20 overs.......20% task done.....they need to wait now for bad light to strike anytime and not lose another wicket until then
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Post by msp83 on Sun 29 Dec 2013, 2:48 pm

JP Duminy on now.
Kallis, towards the end of his innings was looking a bit troubled with his hamstring may be, so he may not be doing a lot of bowling in the 2nd innings. If Steyn has to be at his effective best, then he has to operate at full pace. That means Duminy might have to a lot of bowling.

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Post by msp83 on Sun 29 Dec 2013, 2:59 pm

Dale Steyn is back on, taking over from Morkel. And he starts with a full one. Perhaps he'll be looking to reverse it already?

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Post by kingraf on Sun 29 Dec 2013, 3:23 pm

Faf duP just took the catch of the year!
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Post by msp83 on Sun 29 Dec 2013, 3:55 pm

India go to stumps at 68-2 with their best 2 batsmen, Cheteshwar Pujara and Virat Kohli at the crease.
Shikhar Dhawan's wicket just makes that South Africa's session. It certainly was the catch of the year, and in general that shot was on as well. But perhaps Dhawan could not have played in the air really.
India are 98 behind with 8 wickets remaining. The weather has been fluctuating really, and the recent reports indicates that tomorrow will be reasonably alright weatherwise. So India will have to earn the draw really.

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Post by msp83 on Sun 29 Dec 2013, 4:01 pm

South African spinners are nowhere near world class, but negative bowling at this stage of the game? Perhaps Smith would have thought that he won't give easy runs to Pujara and give easy runs for Kohli to settle down, but as the Indians were on the backfoot, there was not much of a chance that they would try and go after the bowling really by manufacturing shots. The better thing would have been to try to make the batsman play more and tempt them into a big shot like it happened with Dhawan.

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Post by Guest on Sun 29 Dec 2013, 4:14 pm

Duminy's bowled a lot more overs than i thought he should have, however i guess that was down to dodgy light?

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 29 Dec 2013, 7:16 pm

How much longer will India persist with the donkey Ishant?
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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler on Sun 29 Dec 2013, 7:57 pm

Till they find some 7 ft Australians with Indian grand parents I guess.

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Post by KP_fan on Sun 29 Dec 2013, 8:44 pm

it's a really tense battle for survival...but those batting in the middle should not let tension affect them...

I have been saying since yesterday late that India will have to bat a 100 overs...they batted out 36 overs.

so 64 more overs tomorrow...and with a bit of help from bad light will see them through.

my gut feeling is....it will be very tense....will require a lot of character....every one of the 8 batters we have will be needed to score a 20 to 30 odd and play out atleast 60 balls each ......but we will be through with a draw...about 7 down with a lead of 60 odd into a the 3rd session and bad light will stop play.
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Post by msp83 on Sun 29 Dec 2013, 8:50 pm

Will the Rohit Sharma imposter who played during the West Indies series come back and stand up instead of the real one?

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Post by KP_fan on Sun 29 Dec 2013, 9:13 pm

msp83 wrote:Will the Rohit Sharma imposter who played during the West Indies series come back and stand up instead of the real one?

i don't think he can bash the daylights out of the bowling...but with resolve he can hang around for 30 odd off runs 70 balls .
i believe if he doesn't fire tomm he might get one or two more tests at most.

Rayadu is the next in line..althouhg to me Nayar is also a potential and Baba aparajith has had a great season as long as I was following
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Post by kingraf on Mon 30 Dec 2013, 7:39 am

desperately unlucky for Kohli... but, South Africa isn't the country that rejected DRS for this series.
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Post by Galted on Mon 30 Dec 2013, 7:46 am

kingraf wrote:desperately unlucky for Kohli... but, South Africa isn't the country that rejected DRS for this series.

I love reading the retarded comments on Cricinfo...

Mohit: "Why does India keep getting such poor decisions at such critical stages of match?"

Errrrr... see above?
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Post by KP_fan on Mon 30 Dec 2013, 8:08 am

kingraf wrote:desperately unlucky for Kohli... but, South Africa isn't the country that rejected DRS for this series.

India does not use DRS because ICC does not deem it is essential and leave the options with the playing nations.

and not having DRS is not a justification for bad umpiring decisions.

Well India's chances have thinned.......but we have depth until No.8 ......FTB-Rohit needs to deliver his dues......and Dhoni/ Jadeja need to step up with the bat.......

although defeat looks the most likely scenario....and one man separates the quality of two sides...STEYN
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Post by kingraf on Mon 30 Dec 2013, 8:16 am

Thats not a horror call, though. It's a not better than the Kallis dismissal. There was millimetres between the bat and ball. The ICC does not deem it necessary because the BCCI doesn't deem it necessary.
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Post by Biltong on Mon 30 Dec 2013, 8:19 am

Rohit Harma and Dale Steyn are discussing dinner plans.

I wonder whether they will be going dutch?
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Post by kingraf on Mon 30 Dec 2013, 8:35 am

if we can get one more before the deficit is wiped off.
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Post by KP_fan on Mon 30 Dec 2013, 9:59 am

well rahane, Kohli, Puajra and Vijay have stood out with the bat...in this series...so heartening for India.

Rahane should bat at No. 5.......

and India should look at replacing Rohit......and give a bit more rope to Dahawan else Gambhir comes back.

Today Dhoni and Jadeja are the culprits...absolute wastage.....threw away their wickets....

Kohli was unlucky, Pujara got a gem and Rohit's incompetence caught up with him...so nothing can be done about these 3 dismissals.

having Dhoni and jadeja in the bag would have still made the game still quite even.

Miracle is needed in the form of Zaheer, Shami and Ishant hanging on with Rahane for one more session and then light going bad.
Miracles don't happen easily...so a defeat is looming large at India
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Post by Gerry SA on Mon 30 Dec 2013, 11:54 am

MSP or KPF

How's this kid Rahane been overlooked in favour of glorified flat track bully Rohit Sharma?

Rahane shows fight, guts and determination. Whereas Rohit is a coward. 

India would be better off playing Ashwin at 6 as a batting all rounder. 

Ditch that clown Rohit. He's not man enough to get runs on proper pitches. 

Pujara, Kohli and Rahane are three fine players.

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Post by Gerry SA on Mon 30 Dec 2013, 11:55 am

350 Test wickets for the magnificent Dale Steyn!

Second fastest bowler in Test history. 

Only the Sri Lankan wizard got there faster.

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Post by Mad for Chelsea on Mon 30 Dec 2013, 12:02 pm

to be fair to Rohit he got a very fine ball today, much like Pujara not sure he could do a huge amount about that one. Rahanne has played very nicely so far, just goes to show how awful Dhoni and Jadeja's dismissals were.

India have copped a couple of incorrect decisions (I prefer the term "incorrect" to "poor", as IMO neither was a particularly poor decision, they both looked out on first viewing to me). As usual though, there will be limited sympathy with India in regards to this, for obvious reasons...

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Post by Gerry SA on Mon 30 Dec 2013, 12:08 pm

Mad for Chelsea wrote:to be fair to Rohit he got a very fine ball today, much like Pujara not sure he could do a huge amount about that one. Rahanne has played very nicely so far, just goes to show how awful Dhoni and Jadeja's dismissals were.

India have copped a couple of incorrect decisions (I prefer the term "incorrect" to "poor", as IMO neither was a particularly poor decision, they both looked out on first viewing to me). As usual though, there will be limited sympathy with India in regards to this, for obvious reasons...
I'm not sure how you can say Rohit got a very fine delivery. 

A batsman, if he's as hyped up as Rohit, would be expected to move his feet. 


All Rohit ever does is waft with no footwork. 

He'll be exposed in New Zealand and England. 

He's simply not good enough.

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Post by Gerry SA on Mon 30 Dec 2013, 12:09 pm

Rahane out for a brilliant 96, deserved a 100 IMO. 

Not sure why Philander's giving the poor lad a send off either...

Will the King open in final innings?

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Post by Biltong on Mon 30 Dec 2013, 12:13 pm

Three Indian batsmen impressed me this tour, I reckon they can go a long way in internatinal cricket.

Pujara, Kohli and Rahane.

I reckon Kohli needs to talk a little less though, he seems overconfident, but this chap Rahane is an excellent find.
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Post by KP_fan on Mon 30 Dec 2013, 12:15 pm

Well there is a big Rohot vs. rahane debate.......people accusing Dhoni and selectors of giving an unduly long run to Rohit at primarily the cost of Rahane and secondarily Tiwary.

Many of us pointed out Rahane the technically the most correct batsman in the country.......with a perfect temperament for test cricket...as his average of 60+ in FC represents

But Rahane has settled the debate here.......when the conditions were tough......his technique stood out.
the ball that got Rohot looked good....but Rohit made the mistake of committing himself too early to the initial line of the delivery..and hence could not cover the late movement.

India needed to bat one more hour and about 50 more runs to be on the borders of safety....dhoni and Jadeja are culprits...got out to horribly irresponsible strokes give the match situation then
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Post by KP_fan on Mon 30 Dec 2013, 12:17 pm

Biltong wrote:Three Indian batsmen impressed me this tour, I reckon they can go a long way in internatinal cricket.

Pujara, Kohli and Rahane.

I reckon Kohli needs to talk a little less though, he seems overconfident, but this chap Rahane is an excellent find.

Add Vijay also to that list....he comes back with credits.
and Jadeja with the ball.

India tried hard....many positive finds...but in the end the inherent difference in class stood out .

a fair result SA is the better and undisputed No.1 side.....the way they saved and nearly won the first test....and from that point they started asserting themselves more and more
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Post by alfie on Mon 30 Dec 2013, 1:32 pm

KP_fan wrote:Well there is a big Rohot vs. rahane debate.......people accusing Dhoni and selectors of giving an unduly long run to Rohit at primarily the cost of Rahane and secondarily Tiwary.

Many of us pointed out Rahane the technically the most correct batsman in the country.......with a perfect temperament for test cricket...as his average of 60+ in FC represents

But Rahane has settled the debate here.......when the conditions were tough......his technique stood out.
the ball that got Rohot looked good....but Rohit made the mistake of committing himself too early to the initial line of the delivery..and hence could not cover the late movement.

India needed to bat one more hour and about 50 more runs to be on the borders of safety....dhoni and Jadeja are culprits...got out to horribly irresponsible strokes give the match situation then


Can't disagree with anything there , KP_fan ...

Not often I can say that about any of your posts  Hug 

Some sympathy for India on this mini tour...contested well , might (should) have won the first match...and just fell in a hole here.

Steyn on a mission after a rare poor match ...and Kallis pretty keen to finish on a high...it was written.

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Post by msp83 on Mon 30 Dec 2013, 1:34 pm

Gerry SA wrote:MSP or KPF

How's this kid Rahane been overlooked in favour of glorified flat track bully Rohit Sharma?

Rahane shows fight, guts and determination. Whereas Rohit is a coward. 

India would be better off playing Ashwin at 6 as a batting all rounder. 

Ditch that clown Rohit. He's not man enough to get runs on proper pitches. 

Pujara, Kohli and Rahane are three fine players.
Gerry, how Rohit got so many chances and how Rahane never got a fair run with the limited overs side is an enigma for most of us. Some people believe that Rohit Sharma is a rich bag of potential, and that he has a fabulous technique and that he should and would be the successor to SRT, and that he is serious captaincy material, and that he can bat anywhere in the order, and on and on and on....... has proved himself to be an effective hitter on flat tracks and showed he could survive a bit and score a few before giving his wicket away in proper wickets as ODI opener in 2013. Showed himself to be a destroier of 3rd rate attacks on spinning tracks against the West Indies in his debut test series.
Hopefully he'll be given a test or 2 more to prove himself to be half-useful in challenging conditions, and if he fails, they should look elseware.
Never going to happen though!.

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Post by kingraf on Mon 30 Dec 2013, 1:34 pm

Philander is lucky the ICC generally doesn't fine Afrikaans phrases, because if you understand Afrikaans, you'd realise he gave Rahane a naughty send-off
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Post by alfie on Mon 30 Dec 2013, 1:46 pm

kingraf wrote:Philander is lucky the ICC generally doesn't fine Afrikaans phrases, because if you understand Afrikaans, you'd realise he gave Rahane a naughty send-off

I don't understand Afrikaans ...but the body language was sufficient to suggest he wasn't congratulating him on his innings  Smile 

Wonder what Rahane did to annoy him ?

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Post by kingraf on Mon 30 Dec 2013, 1:49 pm

This Test showed just why we are the #1 team in the world. The first Test highlighted a fear of failure probably fostered by previous failures. But in this one they showed just how ruthless they can be when given a sniff. 181-1 turned into 334 all out, so India went 154-9 day two. Then, with time threatening to run out during our first innings, Robbie P and Faf put together 100 runs in 14 overs...
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Post by kingraf on Mon 30 Dec 2013, 1:50 pm

Alfie I'm not sure what exactly he did to offend Vernon, but I do know Vernon mumbled "ladyparts" in Afrikaans.
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Post by alfie on Mon 30 Dec 2013, 2:27 pm

kingraf wrote:Alfie I'm not sure what exactly he did to offend Vernon, but I do know Vernon mumbled "ladyparts" in Afrikaans.

Tut , tut.

Still I rather doubt Rahane speaks Afrikaans , so he probably wasn't too bothered  Smile 

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Post by msp83 on Mon 30 Dec 2013, 2:53 pm

Disappointed with Team India not being able to save the test. A couple of poor decisions against them, Perhaps DRS and no Tony Hill in the TV box would have meant they'd have been able to get them corrected....... A couple of pretty poor shots, one from the skipper himself and another one from Ravindra Jadeja. They showed great temperament against the quicks, but they are not used to spinners getting the upperhand over them and wanted to take on Peterson, but the bowler was up to it. Had no expectations from Rohit Sharma, and he proved me bloody right, no surprises there really.
Hopefully the people who argue for going in with an all pace attack will have a bit of a rethink after Peterson's 5th day show against the finest players of spin. This doesn't make Peterson a good bowler, he remains an average bowler, who offers a decent package as an all-rounder. But a spinner is key for all teams in most of the conditions, and you need something better than what JP Duminy offers. Under the circumstances, Peterson should be the first choice for now, and they can consider Imran Tahir on a real turner.
Terrific performance from Ajinkya Rahane. He showed good technique and tempermant unlike some massively hyped up very lucky flattrack bullies.

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler on Mon 30 Dec 2013, 3:03 pm

The massively hyped up flat track bully that the whole of the internet was deriding india for not picking when dominating ODIs but blocked from the test team by recently retired massively overhyped flat track bullies who shall remain unnamed?
Rahane is the star of the moment but just as well for him given he had struggled in previous tests.

Sharma seems to be taking a lot of heat from a poor tour. The fact remains that Indian potentially have an incredibly strong set of middle order batsmen who already have some big scores under their belts. Still struggling to find two openers though (although opening here is hardly a fair place to judge against the best seam attack in the world)

Jadeja and Ashwin as a conundrum, the one whos supposed to bowl cant and the one whos supposed to bat cant.

India have 2 test level seamers when Khan is fit, one more than they had before Shami. They must surely call and end to Ishant though?

Amazing the difference in positivity despite the flaws still being evident.

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Post by msp83 on Mon 30 Dec 2013, 3:04 pm

But at the end of the day, a 1-0 scoreline against the world number 1 side in their own backyard with he games going into the final session on the final day is not bad at all. The batsmen emerged with credit, Cheteshwar Pujara, Virat Kohli and Ajinkya Rahane proved that the hope for a good future on their shoulders is justified. Murali Vijay also surpassed expectations and proved many pundits wrong with solid temperament and decent technique. Shikhar Dhawan needs to work on his game plan, work on his temperament and also on his short ball technique. But he needs to produce the goods in the New Zealand tour really.
Mohammed Shami bowled well, Ishant Sharma had one of good games in the first test before reverting to type in the 2nd game. Zaheer had a reasonable comeback, though it may be too much to expect his 35 year old body to be able to replicate his peak performance, but he needs to be around for at least a year or so for the away assignments to guide the young seamers and help the skipper out as well. Ravindra Jadeja proved a few points as well with the ball, he can safely be selected as just a bowler alone in the side. But there is some potential there with the bat, he's quite capable of averaging in the late 20s and early 30s in test matches, but he needs to put his head down and graft a bit when called up on.
Ravichandran Ashwin lost his place as India's led spinner, and he has to find ways to bowl with greater discipline in non-spinning conditions. Bhuvneshwar Kumar also lost his first choice seamer position though I'd say perhaps they'll have to have a relook at that in New Zealand where there is greater chances of swing coming into play. Umesh Yadav also failed to enhance his reputation. And the hype bubble burst badly for FTP Sharma after his exploits against the West Indies.

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India in South Africa 2013 - Page 15 Empty Re: India in South Africa 2013

Post by msp83 on Mon 30 Dec 2013, 3:16 pm

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:The massively hyped up flat track bully that the whole of the internet was deriding india for not picking when dominating ODIs but blocked from the test team by recently retired massively overhyped flat track bullies who shall remain unnamed?
Rahane is the star of the moment but just as well for him given he had struggled in previous tests.

Sharma seems to be taking a lot of heat from a poor tour. The fact remains that Indian potentially have an incredibly strong set of middle order batsmen who already have some big scores under their belts. Still struggling to find two openers though (although opening here is hardly a fair place to judge against the best seam attack in the world)

Jadeja and Ashwin as a conundrum, the one whos supposed to bowl cant and the one whos supposed to bat cant.

India have 2 test level seamers when Khan is fit, one more than they had before Shami. They must surely call and end to Ishant though?

Amazing the difference in positivity despite the flaws still being evident.
PSW, Rahane has played only 3 tests so far and failed in only one of those. Did OK in his 2nd game, was brilliant in his 3rd.
The bowling has always been a problem area for India and not many are expecting our seamers to burst through batting lineups day in and day out. If they can just about manage to do a job, that is fair enough. Ashwin, Jadeja and Ojha can dominate batting lineups on turning tracks, and now ones again, we've found some solid batting options that can also cover a bit for the bowling problems, that has been the Indian way, batting is the strongpoint, and though the Pujaras, Kohlis and Rahanes of the world have a fair few way to go to be talked about in the same league as the Dravids, Sachins and Laxmans, they've shown they have the foundations.
Unlike in England and Australia where we went in with the best ever opening combination in the history of test cricket in this country, and the 2nd and 3rd best openers the country has produced, here we went in with 2 guys, one quite new to test cricket, the other almost discounted even before he started the tour. And we know the results don't we? Admit Dhawan didn't have even an average series, but he didn't look horribly out of place like Gambhir and Sehwag did in Australia and England during the horrer days.
So I don't think the positivity is badly misplaced really.

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler on Mon 30 Dec 2013, 3:44 pm

Right its the difference between a team with a big reputation being expected to live up to it and a bunch of kids getting a free pass.
The other difference here of course is that they actually looked like they wanted to win a game whereas the team that turned up to England got bored of that after one day.
Strangely reminiscent of a certain team in Australia!

Given how badly wrong things couldve gone fro India this is pretty decent of course. They should be kicking themselves more for letting the good chances slip though, and frankly Id be worried about the batting from 6 and the continued inability to get a proper bowling attack together...as you say India cannot afford to lose Khan yet even if he is held together by sticky tape and Gulab Jamun.
You cant be down hearted at being competitive in SA but as much as theres positive signs for India Id have worries about them. Theres a lot to prove over the next few years

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