How much control do the PRL want over European Club Rugby?

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How much control do the PRL want over European Club Rugby?

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Total Votes : 16

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Post by HammerofThunor on Fri 29 Nov 2013, 1:03 pm

Ok so it's been bandied about that the PRL want complete control over Europe. That they want to own the unions and make them their female dogs (no I won't give references, check TJ's posting history).

No as far as I'm aware the detail of this has not been released. There has been no discussion or compromise to give an indication of what is desired/demanded. So what is it you think they want as a minimum? From what I've read the only thing that's been said openly is that the competition should be run by the competitors.

So I ask the question do you think they want more/less/same control as they have over the English Premiership?

For clarification I've put the relevant details of the current RFU/PRL deal below (some of which are for international rugby).

RFU wrote:As part of the Agreement, PRL shall be solely responsible for negotiating the sale of their own TV, media & Sponsorship rights and giving directions to ERC in respect of England's position on the sale of the TV, media and sponsorship rights related to the European Rugby Cup and European Challenge Cup.

The deal sees the creation of a Professional Game Board (PGB) to oversee the new Agreement. The PGB has detailed terms of reference and decision-making powers. These are contained in the Notes at the end of the press release.

PROFESSIONAL GAME BOARD: Terms of Reference

1 To monitor the progress in implementing the terms of the Heads of Agreement. To ensure that all terms are implemented in full by all parties.
2 To draw up and approve the principle objectives for professional rugby in England each season no later than the 31 July for the following season. To monitor progress against these objectives throughout the year.
3 To review and monitor the performance of the England teams (Senior, Saxons, U20, Sevens) and the Premiership clubs in European competitions. To make appropriate recommendations to the RFU & PRL respectively.
4 To be responsible for drawing up the domestic professional season structure including England's position on the European Rugby Cup competitions.
5 To make recommendations to the RFU Management Board on the international match and tours schedule to maximise benefits for the England team.
6 To make recommendations to the RFU Management Board on England's policy with respect to the British & Irish Lions tours.
7 To make recommendations to the RFU & PRL on the IRB's Global Season' project if that project is still running.
8 To make recommendations to the RFU & PRL with respect to any replacement competition to the Domestic Cup and the Premiership A' team competition.
9 To review and approve the Premiership fixture list each season on the recommendation of PRL.
10 To review and recommend changes in the Criteria for membership of the Premiership to the RFU and PRL.
11 To review and monitor the operation of the Salary Cap. To make recommendations to PRL on any proposed changes.
12 To be responsible for developing and agreeing policy for all player welfare matters. To implement such policy when agreed.
13 To monitor all decisions taken by the Elite Rugby Director and club Directors of Rugby under the terms of the Medical Protocol.
14 To review and amend the List of Specialists and Experts from time to time.
15 To receive the report of the Independent Review Panel under the terms of the Medical Protocol. To make any decisions required on the recommendations in that report.
16 To be responsible for managing the Rugby Care joint venture. To ensure the smooth running of that venture.
17 To monitor all EPS playing statistics. To ensure compliance with the agreed match limits for all EPS players.
18 To monitor the EQP scheme results on a club by club basis.
19 To review the Premiership Regulations on an annual basis. To make recommendations to the RFU regarding any changes.
20 To receive and review the Elite Rugby Director's quarterly report covering progress being made against the season's objectives for the National Teams, Elite Coach Development, Elite Referee Development, Sports Science/Medicine and the National and Regional Academies.
21 To receive and review a quarterly report from the FDR Executive Director on the performance of FDR generally, the operation of the dual registration and loan scheme with Premiership clubs and the operation of the 'twinning' scheme with Premiership clubs.
22 To receive and review a quarterly report from the PRL CEO covering progress being made against the season's objectives on the performance of the Premiership and our clubs in the European competitions.
23 To receive and review a quarterly report from the PRA CEO on the performance of the PRA covering progress being made against the season's objectives in particular player welfare matters and concerns.
24 To receive an annual report from the RFU Disciplinary Officer. To make appropriate recommendations to the Disciplinary Officer on the application of IRB or RFU policy on discipline.
The PGB is made up of RFU and PRL representatives and I think someone from the RPA.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Fri 29 Nov 2013, 5:30 pm

The PRL will settle for the BT deal to be allowed. They've got the reforms now they want their tv deal. They get that and we're all on for next season.

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Post by niwatts on Sat 30 Nov 2013, 2:20 am

There was an RCC statement on governance last month:



  • The new Rugby Champions Cup is proposed to be under the overall regulatory responsibility of the Six Nations for compliance with IRB regulations, the provision of disciplinary services and the appointment of match officials.


  • The three Leagues will organise and manage the new Rugby Champions Cup competitions and maximise all the commercial rights.


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Post by Poorfour on Sat 30 Nov 2013, 12:47 pm

Nice idea, but the voting options aren't very useful.

The PRL effectively runs all commercial aspects of the AP, including things like broadcasting deals, agreements with the RFU and the salary cap.

It'll never have that much control over a European competition, and as far as I am aware it's never asked for that. What it has asked for, as far as we can see, is for the leagues (i.e. the clubs) to be able to run the tournament in organisational (e.g. qualification) and commercial terms.

In effect, they're asking for sufficient control to be able to negotiate their own broadcasting deal for domestic games and that voting on things like qualification and split of money is more proportional to the number of clubs than it is today (which in practice means giving the LNR and RRW voting rights that the FFR and WRU can't overrule or recall).

I don't think that's that unreasonable or even that it would give the PRL disproportionate power. They would still need the backing of the Rabo or LNR to effect any changes - which is actually how things are today EXCEPT that the FFR can overrule the LNR and RRW would have some of the votes that WRU has today (IIRC RRW doesn't have any direct say today - but I could be wrong).

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Post by niwatts on Sat 30 Nov 2013, 3:25 pm

This was from an interview with McCafferty in October:

"The Rugby Champions Cup is a club tournament that will be run by clubs and it will be done so in a far different, leaner and more cost-effective way than ERC."

Whereas the board of ERC is made up of nine directors from the six unions and one each from Premiership Rugby, the Ligue Nationale de Rugby (LNR) and Regional Rugby Wales, the Rugby Champions Cup's board would comprise delegates from the England and French clubs and the four countries that make up the Pro 12, (Ireland, Italy, Scotland and Wales), all three leagues having equal representation.

"ERC is costly to run for a nine-weekend competition," said McCafferty. "The LNR takes up more than half the year and the Premiership 26 weeks: both leagues are run by clubs under the regulatory guidance of their respective unions.

"It will be the same with the Rugby Champions Cup, where the board will be concerned with commercial issues and tournament organisation working in partnership with the unions who will be responsible for areas like referees, discipline and anti-doping."

McCafferty accepted that some of the Pro 12 directors would be union officials, with the professional teams in Ireland, Scotland and Italy all run by their governing bodies. "Those unions have a clear financial interest in the success of the tournament and it is right they are represented," he said.

What about Wales, where the regions, who this week declared their backing for the Rugby Champions Cup, are independent of a union which has not involved them in negotiations over Europe? "I do not think that would be an insurmountable problem," he said."Our cup will be a commercial and tournament business and w. e ha've given financial guarantees to all the Pro 12 countries. We have to be able to run the tournaments in the way that will allow us to generate the money to meet that commitment and it is essential that it is administered by the three leagues."
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/oct/24/premiership-rugby-european-cup-mark-mccafferty

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Post by TJ on Sat 30 Nov 2013, 3:31 pm

Well too many clubs have not allowed their Fijians to play. Glasgow have done. It shows why the PRL power grab needs to be resisted. Fiji 100th. Let their best players play

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Post by Poorfour on Sat 30 Nov 2013, 3:37 pm

Thanks. I hadn't seen that. Quite different from today's governance in structure, but I don't see anything in there that looks unreasonable.

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Post by Poorfour on Sat 30 Nov 2013, 3:39 pm

TJ wrote:Well too many clubs have not allowed their Fijians to play.  Glasgow have done.  It shows why the PRL power grab needs to be resisted.  Fiji 100th.  Let their best players play
We have international windows for a reason. Why should clubs be compelled to release employees whose salaries they pay (and whose salaries count against a salary cap) when games are played outside the window?

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Post by TJ on Sat 30 Nov 2013, 3:45 pm

Because some things are worth more than money. Fijis 100th celebration.

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Post by Sin é on Sat 30 Nov 2013, 6:25 pm

Only controlling European Rugby ..... ???

Paul Ackford, London Times. wrote:A couple of weeks ago, I was in a cab with a senior executive of a Premiership club. It was late, drink had been taken and the talk turned to the state of European rugby politics, which, at that stage, appeared to be favouring the English clubs’ desire to exercise greater influence over the two European rugby tournaments.

“This is only the beginning,” the grandee said. “What if I were to tell you that some of us are looking at how we can run the whole of the professional game in England, including the national team. We reckon it would
Anyone got a subscription to the Times? It seems to be an interesting article!

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/sport/rugbyunion/article3936188.ece

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Post by maestegmafia on Mon 02 Dec 2013, 8:55 am

"A couple of weeks ago, I was in a cab with a senior executive of a Premiership club. It was late, drink had been taken and the talk turned to the state of European rugby politics, which, at that stage, appeared to be favouring the English clubs’ desire to exercise greater influence over the two European rugby tournaments.
“This is only the beginning,” the grandee said. “What if I were to tell you that some of us are looking at how we can run the whole of the professional game in England, including the national team. We reckon it would cost us about £200 million to acquire those rights from the Rugby Football Union.”
Just the tired and emotional, delusional ramblings of a maverick potentate? That’s what I thought, until I raised the topic with another leading club administrator this week. “It’s true,” he said. “There are some individuals having those conversations at the moment. The figure I heard is £250  million, which they reckon is the RFU’s approximate annual profit [£25  million], ramped up by a multiple of ten. Take that to a venture capitalist and he might be interested."

Paul Ackford

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Post by AsLongAsBut100ofUs on Mon 02 Dec 2013, 9:46 am

I have no idea why sole control of European rugby should rest with any national body - by all means let the PRL as a stakeholder have a say, alongside all the other stakeholders. If they believe that they can get far superior media deals, by all all means offer them the chair of the commercial sub-committee that makes recommendations to the Board and is then charged with negotiations

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Post by Poorfour on Mon 02 Dec 2013, 12:18 pm

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:I have no idea why sole control of European rugby should rest with any national body - by all means let the PRL as a stakeholder have a say, alongside all the other stakeholders.  If they believe that they can get far superior media deals, by all all means offer them the chair of the commercial sub-committee that makes recommendations to the Board and is then charged with negotiations
Where has the PRL ever said they want sole control of European rugby? All they have ever said is that they think a competition played by clubs should be controlled by clubs (or their representative bodies), at least as far as commercials and organisation goes.

At the moment we have a situation where 6 groups of teams play in a tournament. Three of those groups (the IRFU, SRU and FIR) are represented in the governance by the appropriate representative body (because the unions organise the clubs). One of those groups is represented by a kind of fudge whereby the union and club organising body share their votes and it kind of works (RFU and PRL). Two of those groups are represented by unions that have different - sometimes very different - interests from the clubs that play in the tournament.

In the French case, the FFR supposedly delegates its votes to the LNR but it can and will pull them back when it feels like it. Given that the FFR and LNR are frequently at loggerheads and the FFR controls a large share of the votes, that distorts the governance process for everyone.

We will only have a long term stable European competition if the clubs feel they are fairly represented in the governance process. At the moment it is hard to argue that they are when over two thirds of the entering teams are wholly or partly represented by an organisation that has other interests.

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